View Full Version : oil rings (PLEASE HELP)
This is the thing. I have a 2002 stock 400ex and at the start of the year I had to change my oil rings but I changed the entire piston and now I put on a LRD full system exhaust with a k&n air filter with precharger and when I first put the pipe and air filter on I put my main jet from a 148 to a 160 and I didn’t change my pilot, when I was running those jets my plug was a nice chocolate color and for some reason my plug is black as the night now and im blowing black some every now and then but I didn’t really notice power loss. Could it be that im just running rich all of a sodden? and if so why all of a sodden it changed?
Why did you have to replace the oil rings? Just wondering....
Did you replace all the rings when you replaced the piston?
Since you didnt replace the pilot (if it is stock) it should be running a bit lean on the idle circuit.
Is it oil fouled or gas fouled?
<edit> 'I'm not sure if this is a valid question for your situation nor do I know the difference'
I'm not so good at trouble shooting, someone else will probably have better answers/questions for you....
Joe
ghak99
09-30-2003, 10:43 PM
I have seen many people a races have this problem simply because they over oiled their KnN? Is it possible that this might be the cause.
I am not as fimiliar with the 400 but is 160 too big?
An over oiled filter could be a possibility. I don't think a 160 main with a full system is overkill. Stock is 148and supposedly a little lean from the factoy. I'm still wondering about what was actually done to the motor/piston.
Joe
ghak99
09-30-2003, 10:58 PM
Where did you put the top and bottom oil ring gaps at?
well i know for a fact that my airfilter isnt overed oil because i never oil it yet it has the stock oil on it like when you buy it, so im sure its not that and for the rings placement i went by the book (400ex shop boo)k, so im preaty sure i did it right man!
but if it realy was my rings causing this wouldnt i be loosing power?
but for some reason something is tell me it could be the weather i get down here! the weather goes from +30C to 15 in the summer and now thats it getting close to winter its like -3 in the morning and +6 in the afternoon could it be the change of weather making my bike run rich???
man im so lost right now!! but for some reason the thing about the weather seems to make sence.
what do you guys think:confused:
Originally posted by JOEX
Why did you have to replace the oil rings? Just wondering....
Did you replace all the rings when you replaced the piston?
Since you didnt replace the pilot (if it is stock) it should be running a bit lean on the idle circuit.
Is it oil fouled or gas fouled?
<edit> 'I'm not sure if this is a valid question for your situation nor do I know the difference'
I'm not so good at trouble shooting, someone else will probably have better answers/questions for you....
Joe
yes i replaced the entire piston, compression rings and oil rings
and the reason for that was because i was blow blue smoke like crazy and i was loosing power
UglyMotha™
10-01-2003, 10:23 AM
did you hone the cylinder before you put all that in
no i didnt hone it because i did have that tool, but its like i said man i change the piston at the start of the year man like at the start of june so why would it change now when i have been riding it for 4 months now?:huh
UglyMotha™
10-01-2003, 02:32 PM
well ya just broke rule #1 anytime you relpace your rings or take them out of your cylinder you always have to hone i don't think you understand what honing really does honing turns your cylinder into a file so that when you first fire your machine up it files away the outer edge of the ring and makes it seat to your cylinder wall if you don't hone when you put a new set of rings in it will just glaze your cylinder walls and your rings will not seat and you will not have a good compression seal there fore loosing power also oil will be able to get by the rings and into the combustion chamber the tool is only 30 bucks and is worth investing in
Originally posted by UglyMotha™
well ya just broke rule #1 anytime you relpace your rings or take them out of your cylinder you always have to hone i don't think you understand what honing really does honing turns your cylinder into a file so that when you first fire your machine up it files away the outer edge of the ring and makes it seat to your cylinder wall if you don't hone when you put a new set of rings in it will just glaze your cylinder walls and your rings will not seat and you will not have a good compression seal there fore loosing power also oil will be able to get by the rings and into the combustion chamber the tool is only 30 bucks and is worth investing in
well what the @#$% as if that sucks so i guess im beet like a fat girl playing dodge ball and now im going to have to buy new rings right??? please to god say no:mad:
UglyMotha™
10-01-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by sim
well what the @#$% as if that sucks so i guess im beet like a fat girl playing dodge ball and now im going to have to buy new rings right??? please to god say no:mad:
actually if you haven't ran it too long you can just pull that bad boy out and take it to your local machine shop and have them hone if for you and then reassemble everything and do your proper motor breakin and everything should seat fine
well dude i have been using my quad for like 4 month sence i rebuilt it man i changed the piston at the start of june so ???? but man if you think there still a chance for me to just take the piston out and hone the cylender and put it back to gather i will man im going to do it but dont you think its to late ???
and can i ask you something why did my oil rings go when my bike was preaty mutch still new man ???? but anyway thats not that important that was then now is now hahah
I thought I replied earlier but I guess not:p I think I got interrupted.
I think i'd at least replace the rings when you tear it down. I'd also have the cylinder checked (measured for wear) It might need a bore. If so you will need another piston.:(
I'd also like to know why the rings went out. Was there any air filter issues we should know about? How about engine oil and filter change frequency?
UglyMotha and others here have quite a bit more knowledge then me on this subject. I just go by common sense and age:p
Joe
Originally posted by JOEX
I thought I replied earlier but I guess not:p I think I got interrupted.
I think i'd at least replace the rings when you tear it down. I'd also have the cylinder checked (measured for wear) It might need a bore. If so you will need another piston.:(
I'd also like to know why the rings went out. Was there any air filter issues we should know about? How about engine oil and filter change frequency?
UglyMotha and others here have quite a bit more knowledge then me on this subject. I just go by common sense and age:p
Joe ok when you say measure for wear how do i do this and what should it be so i know if i have to bore
and no man my airfitler was always clean and my oil i check it all the time but im think the reason why my rings went is because i was rinding in like -40c weather??
You will need a semi special tool that most people don't have. I want to call it an inside micrometer but I think there is another name for it. You will want to measure the top of the bore and the bottom. I believe there is a slight taper, smaller at the bottom than the top.
Things like this I prefer to leave to the pros. And it does cost money:( That is why preventitive maintenance is so important.
I belive 40*c is fairly warm, I don't remember the conversion to *F. If you where running a very thin oil it could have added to the problem.
Joe
Originally posted by JOEX
You will need a semi special tool that most people don't have. I want to call it an inside micrometer but I think there is another name for it. You will want to measure the top of the bore and the bottom. I believe there is a slight taper, smaller at the bottom than the top.
Things like this I prefer to leave to the pros. And it does cost money:( That is why preventitive maintenance is so important.
I belive 40*c is fairly warm, I don't remember the conversion to *F. If you where running a very thin oil it could have added to the problem.
Joe where do i go to get this mesurement done??
if i go to the honda dealer in town you think they will know how to do it?
hahah no no not +40, -40 man and its that same in Farenhight or how ever your right that
DOH! I didn't see the minus sign. That would be very cold.
0*c = freezing point of water
32*f = freezing point of water
The dealer should be able to make those measurements. Alocal shop might give you a better deal though. You might want to wait till some others reply here before you do anything. I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.;)
Joe
dude so fare every thing your saying make so mutch sence its not even funny and im ready right now some tipes on breaking in your engine you might want to checks this out man seriously check it out is crazy how mutch sence the guys saying he says to run it hard to breake it in! ya i was like what hte !!! dont you have to take it nice and easy but no man ! check it out
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
but ya man im going to go get my cylinder mesured because its not going to hurt to really know if i have to bore or not!
Thanks for the nice words:) What I have learned, someones response/opinion will make very good sense then someone else will come along and either clarify things better or offer a different opinion that makes just as much sense.
I have that site bookmarked.... some heavy reading there. You oughta check out the porting section. I think alot of what he does is for a very specific type of riding/racing that may or may not apply to what we do.
Good luck with your project,
Joe
UglyMotha™
10-02-2003, 08:16 AM
joe summed it up pretty good it really doesn't cost that much to have your checked out by your local machine shop they'll check three things the id of the cylinder they'll check roundness and taper you have service limits for all these listed in you maintanence manual and you can also have them put a fresh hone on it also this lets your rings set properly as far as if you rings are still okay to use i believe there are service limits for those also in your manual and if there within spec you can reuse them even though new rings are fairly cheap and would hurt to buy a new set also always gap your rings before installation this is also explained in your service manual
thanx every one you guys have been a really really good help man i wouldnt of been able to figue it out you guys!!!!!:cool: :macho :D :) PEACE OUT FOR NOW MAN
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