400ex front end on 300ex HELP

[ride300exrider]

hey i was jusy doing the 400ex coverson on my bike and the parts off the arms dong fit into the spindles(the hole part the tire mounts on) i was wondering if somrthing is ****ed up or if i need to use 400ex spindles or whatever u call that part. if not can i use washers??
any help please
thanks
ED

[ride300exrider]

anyone know????
help please

[lil400exman]

i dont understand! if i rember correctly they should bolt right into the exsisting mounts etc. already. You might need to take a C-clamp and tighten that down on the top of the a-arm and the bottom on the spindle then tighten up the bolt then do vice versa on the bottom just putting the c-clamp on the a-arm...............:) it should fit i mean even the bearings/bushings are the same!:p

[swamprider7]

The 400ex a-arms fit right into the 300ex spindles. Just use a c-clamp or something like he said^^^.

[ride300exrider]

yea but when i set the arms into the spindle and tightened the nuts on the coterpins in the holes didnt go between the slots in the nuts, should i use washers inbetween the nuts and the spindles so thsat the holes like up with the slots in the nuts?
thanks

[cdalejef]

#1....tighten the nut a little more till the slot lines up with the hole.

#2....your quad will not handle as well with this setup!

[Butters]

why would it not handle better with wider a-arms

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Butters
why would it not handle better with wider a-arms The 400ex and 300ex geometry is totally different. It won't steer well at all. Search this forum, there has been many discusions on this topic.

[swamprider7]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
The 400ex and 300ex geometry is totally different. It won't steer well at all. Search this forum, there has been many discusions on this topic.

As long as he does the complete conversion (400ex a-arms, shocks, tie rods and relocated shock mount) it will handle way BETTER than stock. I have done this conversion with several 300ex's now and have had no complaints. If he is only using some 400ex parts along with 300ex parts (such as 400ex a-arms with 300ex shocks, etc.) then yes it will handle differently (probably worse) because the geometry is different. I am not sure of the exact situation here, but I just wanted to clear up the fact that if you do the COMPLETE conversion it is a big improvement over the stock suspension. Don't go half ***** on this conversion!

[cdalejef]

From what we (TQS) and other companies that have tried this conversion have found out is the geometry is still to far off even if you switch everything. There are several things that throw it off like steering stem to frame location between the two and the caster settings built into the arm mounts.
465Stroker also looked into this for Traci Cecco's (TLC) 300ex last year and found that it just doesn't work very well. Bradly300 is another one that tried it and ended up going back to stock. It actually works pretty good for flat track but doesn't work well at all for XC, MX or casual trail riding.

[not2hi]

Well, unfortunately, most people on here don't have free race ready goodies thrown at us and unlimited budgets to play with...most here are looking for low buck mods to make things better than stock...believe me, if I had the bucks to throw a set of top notch triples under the dang thing, it'd be a done deal. In fact, i'll go so far as to say, if you do have the money, do it right and buy stuff made specifically for your bike. For the rest of us, for not a whole lot of coin, we do what we can to improve what we have.

99% percent of the 300ex owners that have posted here (and some other boards too) say it was well worth the time, money and effort to make the conversion to the 400ex front end.

In my case i needed to replace one stock 300ex broken shock...it cost me way less to buy the arms, shocks, and tie rods than it would to have replaced the shock alone.

I'm in mid conversion, so i'll chime in later if i feel the ride or steering was negatively effected in any way.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by not2hi
Well, unfortunately, most people on here don't have free race ready goodies thrown at us and unlimited budgets to play with...most here are looking for low buck mods to make things better than stock...believe me, if I had the bucks to throw a set of top notch triples under the dang thing, it'd be a done deal. In fact, i'll go so far as to say, if you do have the money, do it right and buy stuff made specifically for your bike. For the rest of us, for not a whole lot of coin, we do what we can to improve what we have.

99% percent of the 300ex owners that have posted here (and some other boards too) say it was well worth the time, money and effort to make the conversion to the 400ex front end.

In my case i needed to replace one stock 300ex broken shock...it cost me way less to buy the arms, shocks, and tie rods than it would to have replaced the shock alone.

I'm in mid conversion, so i'll chime in later if i feel the ride or steering was negatively effected in any way. I understand about the money issue and I am in no way trying to sell anything. I'm just trying to save people in the long run because this setup is a very bad idea!

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I understand about the money issue and I am in no way trying to sell anything. I'm just trying to save people in the long run because this setup is a very bad idea!

Not2hi,

Jeff is one of the most respected members here and is giving you free advice. He knows his suspension inside and out. Do a search on his name and you will see tons of good info from him. You should trust his opinion.

(Jeff, my parts come in yet)

[bone705]

what makes it such a bad idea? ive done the conversion and i rode my friends with the stock stuff and mine is way better. i see what ur saying about the geometry, but how bad is that throwing everything off? i havent experienced anything negative with my setup yet. is there that much better handleing if u do it right and buy the stuff for the 300?

[ride300exrider]

yea it would be like 400 for arms and like 500 for thw cheapest shocks
i got all my stuff for 450

[465Stroker]

Sure - it works but it is not a great setup for aggressive riding conditions. It will make the quad very twitchy and unstable at high speeds.
Look at a 400ex spindle and a 300ex spindle - they are two major differences - #1 - The location of the tie rod arm on a 400ex is much higher than on a 300ex which causes a TON of bumpsteer, and #2 - the amount of built in caster in the spindles if much less on the 300ex than the 400EX which causes it to be very twichy. Both of these factors provide very poor suspension performance in whoop sections or rough trail sections.

If you have this setup already there are some cures to fix this problem which is to install 400EX spindles which will fix your bumpsteer about 50% and #2 would be to have the steering stem tie-rod plate from a 400EX welded on to your stem too. Also - when you use 400EX spindles you will also need 400EX calipers or at least the 400EX caliper mounting plates on your 300EX calipers.

[bone705]

could i use the spindle/disc/hub from a 250r? i have them laying around.

[cdalejef]

You can but it still doesn't solve the problem. Stroker was exactly right in what he said!

[bone705]

hey jeff. do u guys lenghten 300ex swingarms at the quadshop?

[cdalejef]

We sure do!

[300exOH]

Hey Jeff, Just wondering how much you charge to lengthen the 300ex swingarm and what length do you recommend for trail riding? Thanks

[ride300exrider]

so if i use 400ex arm, tierods,spindles,and brake setup, with the mount mover and 400ex arms will it be better then stock?? and also what it i just us the arms, tie rods and shocks with the mount, will that be better then stock??
thanks

[TRX300X]

I used Works shocks set up for a 300EX with +2 A-Arms on my conversion that I did a year or two back on my X. I'm still running the setup and since I'm running shorter shocks then everyone else my quad sits pretty low and honestly it handles very well. I ride and race MX on it and the only complaint that I have is the fact that the camber is all wrong. It doesn't give me any more bump steer then stock and it carves turns great and even in the whoops it holds up good. But with the camber being wrong it puts the ball joints at a funny angle so you need to watch them as you put some hours on your ride. You dont want a ball joint to break on a 80' double.

[ride300exrider]

when i wemt out riding today for the first time on the set up i liked it alot, i didnt realy push it tho. i kinda felt that the peps were kinda soft. is this a comon thing? i was going to hit like a 25ft double but was wondering about the shocks, are they going to be softer then stock? if i hit the whoops fast will they be good cuz i went thru slow and they felt a lil soft.
im going out tomorrow and realy need to know, also i have a race this weekend

[ride300exrider]

also would having a stock rear shock have anything to do with my triplerates feeling a lil soft?

[bradley300]

your shocks will be way softer, need a revalve for sure

[Butters]

well this kinda sucks. i just ordered all the stuff (aarms, shocks, rods) and now i find out it won't be that good. i've only heard good things about the conversion up until now.

[not2hi]

I'd go ahead and do the swap anyways...just save all the stock parts...if you don't like it, you can always go back to stock and then take some other approach and sell the stuff you just bought.

Only YOU will know if you like it or don't. There have been lots of people here who think its a great improvement over stock, and a few who don't. Again, only YOU can make that call.

of course, i swear by my dial-a-jet too, another unpopular opinion.

[300exOH]

I'm with not2hi on this one. The setup isn't perfect but it IS a great improvement over stock. This setup just takes a little tweaking to get right. If you are a trail rider and maybe race occasionally then you should like the conversion. My omly complaint has been the heavier than normal steering and a slight twitchy feeling. I was able to fix the twitchy feeling by setting the toe to "0" toe. Good luck. Hope this helps your decision.

[bradley300]

i had this set up and went back to stock and here is why
-the spindles are different, this makes the balljoints and aarms sit at a funny angle causing the bump steer that my denton stabilzer on ful hard could not fix

-the 300ex shocks will be way too soft if you use them

-it is way to twitchy at higher speeds

for a casual trail rider, its not a bad set up, bet for a racer, the advantage of the extra width in the corners is outwighied by the disadvantage of the bump steer and twitchyness.

[ride300exrider]

the front shocks i am using is a set of pep triple rate 400ex shocks, i think they feel alittle soft. they are set up for my weight and stock 400ex arms. could the reason they feel a lil soft be because i have a stock rear shock?

[swamprider7]

Not to flame, but I have to disagree with the substantially increased bump steer after the conversion. I did this conversion to a few quads now and have had nothing but good results. I would be very interested to know what wheel offset that bradley300 was running. Also, did you (bradley 300) do the comlpete conversion(a-arms, tie rods, shocks, and relocated shockmount)? Yes the spindles are different but if you look at the camber of how the wheel sits and the check the SAI (steering axis inclination), the differences are pretty small compared to the stock geometry. The amount of increased bump steer that I have noticed has been very little. As long as you keep the stock offset wheels, most riders will not be able to tell a big difference. I converted a 300ex for a local rider that can beat many of the 400ex's around the track near me. Believe me, I am in no way saying that the 400ex conversion is going to be better than aftermarket shocks and a-arms designed for the 300ex. But to the budget-minded rider/racer it is a substansial improvement over the stock suspension componets for a minimal amount of money. Lets face it, the stock 300ex suspension has no width, no travel, and just plain sucks. The amount of wheel travel and extra width gained far outweighs the slight increase in bump steer. I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just stating my personal experiences.

[cdalejef]

Bradley was running 3+2 offset. He was running Elka dual rates setup for this conversion. He is a very good racer and knows how a bike is supposed to feel. I rode it and it handled horrible! When I built Dave Maccarrol's quad, we went with +2 LSR arms designed for a 300ex and Elka shocks. His bike handles great with no negative effects at all.
The 400ex setup maybe ok for a trail rider but for the racer, it will put them at a disadvantage.

[countypark]

I've been running this set-up for about two years and I am extremely happy with it compared to stock. I agree with Jeff's comments on Dave M's quad but for the money I feel the 400 a-arms work fine. Use the stock offset rims and run a stabilizer for sure. Make sure your wheels are toe'd in and run some good shocks. I've raced a 400EX with Elka's (several times) and my 300 with Works Triples and 400EX a-arms and I am faster on the 300. The biggest problem I have encountered is the turning radius can cause the tie-rod to bind up. I haven't noticed any twitchy feel.

Eventually I will get some +2 300EX a-arms but for now I will run the 400EX a-arms.

Dave M. isn't much faster then I am.

[hondapunk]

What if i was to use a bolt on shock mount with 400ex shocks and +2 300ex Burgard a-arms. Would that make a difference in the way it handle as far as making it crap. I mean the +2 300ex a-arms are about the same length as the 400. i can't see why anything would be different if i was to use the shock mount. Let me know what you guys think.:confused:

[300exOH]

I have been running the 87 250r a arms with custom length(14.75") Works shocks and stock 300ex spindles for a while now. It handled well but the steering was stiff and I had lots of bumpsteer. I put on a set of 400ex spindles a few days ago and it made a HUGE difference. The steering is now much lighter and the bumpsteer has been reduced to almost nothing. I am now much happier with the setup. :cool:

[roostin_dale]

Guys i'm sorry about the old post but i have a question. I race Youth production nationals on a 250x. I just bought a BRAND NEW 400ex +2+1 front end with BRAND NEW TCS tripple rate shocks. Did i just waiste my money? I race nearly every weekend of the year,,,this pisses me off

[jay's 300]

I did the conversion on my '02 and I was very pleased w/ the setup over stock. On the track and in the woods! :D

[ghak99]

I am getting ready to do just what you did, +2+1 400ex and tcs 400ex on my 250x in sig. Post some pics once you get it done and let me know how you like it. I was going to run 4:1 wheels to help with the bump steer. I currently have the adjustable 250r arms and believe it is a great improvement over stock.

[roostin_dale]

Originally posted by ghak99
I am getting ready to do just what you did, +2+1 400ex and tcs 400ex on my 250x in sig. Post some pics once you get it done and let me know how you like it. I was going to run 4:1 wheels to help with the bump steer. I currently have the adjustable 250r arms and believe it is a great improvement over stock.

i'll let ya know...it will be done around february 7th.....

Before you order it call TCS....i just called them and they said they made them the custom length for the conversion. That way you can use stock shock mounts. They were really nice guys too....

[ghak99]

I was wanting the extra travel from the 400ex shocks though. I have stock 400ex shocks now and the extra 3 inches or so is a huge difference in riding and landing comfort.

[roostin_dale]

Originally posted by ghak99
I was wanting the extra travel from the 400ex shocks though. I have stock 400ex shocks now and the extra 3 inches or so is a huge difference in riding and landing comfort.

If you get them custom length they will still have tons more travel than ANY 300ex shocks.

I threw my friends 400ex front end on mine, i didnt really ride it but it didnt look right at all......if you want normal 400ex shocks then you need to buy the 400ex shockmount bracket...

[ghak99]

I yes I know, I already have one.....Mine is adjustable, It has two settings, one for mx setting and one where the quad sets about 4 inches off the ground for flat tracking. My rear is also adjustable to match the 2 front settings. I made this bracket so that the angle of the shocks is exactly like the 400ex setup stock.

Sorry I fotgot to tell you this in the first place.

[roostin_dale]

Originally posted by ghak99
I yes I know, I already have one.....Mine is adjustable, It has two settings, one for mx setting and one where the quad sets about 4 inches off the ground for flat tracking. My rear is also adjustable to match the 2 front settings. I made this bracket so that the angle of the shocks is exactly like the 400ex setup stock.

Sorry I fotgot to tell you this in the first place.

O ok...that bracket makes a big difference...in that case i say go ahead and get regular 400ex shocks. I'll let ya know when mine is finished;)

[hondapunk]

I was testing out the conversion on my 300ex with a bolt on shock mount +2 300ex a-arms and 400ex works triple rates. It works good but has some problems like everyone was saying. I think you really need to do 400 spindles for sure and the a-arms. The +2 300ex are pretty much the same as the stock 400 but the the shock monut on the 400 a-arm is closer to the spindle. The setup i did worked ok but when you get some speed and try to turn the front end pushes in to much and it gets bouncy. If i wanted to waste money i would go out get some +2 400 a-arms and spindles and im sure this setup would work prefect. I almost don't think its worth it. I rather go out and buy works for the 300ex setup. It's bit more money but its less work and you know it will work well with your bike.

[cdalejef]

How were the shocks setup?

[countypark]

No Doubt,

Sounds like your shocks were not set up for the proper weight and valving. And what offset rim are you running? The only problem I've noticed is bump steer. I even ran a TT race and I thought the front end was really tight.

I'm going with the +2 +1 a-arms, with the 4:1 rims and 400ex Elka triple rates with the shockmount relocated.

[bradley300]

dont order 400ex shocks, they will not be right, order shocks for the exact set up for the 300ex plus 2 a-arms, 400ex mounting brackett.

if your not buying new shocks, then you will need to find 400ex shocks b/c they are the right length and the bushings are the same, they wil need to be revealved for the 300ex a-arms tho

[hondapunk]

What do you mean Jeff??

I was just testing when i did this. It will work if you do it right. I think its not worth the time. I rather spend the money on shocks for the 300 setup but those people that aren't looking to spend a lot of money and just tool around go for it.

[Out_Sider]

dont do the 400ex conversion!! the geometry is off. if u race then u willl definatly see the increase in bumpsteer. just dont go the cheap way (atleast if u race, anyway.) and buy +2 300ex a arms and shocks for a 300ex w/ +2 a arms...and plus ..it sounds alot better when u say "yea i got me some +2 a arms"..than saying.."i got me a 400ex front end..." lol

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by hondapunk
What do you mean Jeff??

I was just testing when i did this. It will work if you do it right. I think its not worth the time. I rather spend the money on shocks for the 300 setup but those people that aren't looking to spend a lot of money and just tool around go for it. I meant that if you have the shocks built for that setup instead of a 400ex, the handling should be great!

[hondapunk]

oh yea no doubt but I just rather go buy shocks for my +2 300ex setup

[countypark]

With the mount you are going to increase the amount of suspension that you have.