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MP250r
09-22-2003, 01:51 PM
I was at work today and our shop is right beside a Mcdonalds, a big White Brothers Honda Peterbuilt truck pulls up in the parking lot. The driver jumps out and opened the side door, the whole truck was full of crf450s. He was headed to london, ky for a race. I talked to him for a few about the 450s, he said they run stock cams and pistons in thier bikes and run white brothers pipes and have some "head work" done to them and they make 58hp at the rear wheel. The truck had a california tag on it, they race a 4 stroke series. but im wondering if anyone else has gotten any dyno numbers on the 450s with some mods?

norcal.z400
09-22-2003, 01:57 PM
no that guy is wrong!! its more like 65-70hp and if you add the HRC kit you will get another 20hp ... so you will be pushin 90hp.

but dont tell Windham .... cause his bike isnt near that much even with Hondas builders :rolleyes:

norcal.z400
09-22-2003, 02:01 PM
ok ... im done with the sarcasm ....

a stock CRF450R dirtbike has 55hp at the crank which means around 46hp and the rear tire. The stock pipe flows damn well and you can get 1 hp out of a pipe ... maybe

so ..... 11hp from head work is unlikely

09-22-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by norcal.z400
ok ... im done with the sarcasm ....

a stock CRF450R dirtbike has 55hp at the crank which means around 46hp and the rear tire. The stock pipe flows damn well and you can get 1 hp out of a pipe ... maybe

so ..... 11hp from head work is unlikely

What's a Z400 put out?

And, What does yours put out?

And, How much did it cost to get it to put out that much? :D

Bretmd94
09-22-2003, 04:33 PM
im calling bs :o

norcal.z400
09-22-2003, 05:07 PM
my Z400 put out a lot of HP for not that much money. I parted out my mods though and am selling the bike. I had 45-50 rwhp for under $1500

look on Z400central for some videos that I posted smart guy. I was intending to get a 450R .... but now am going with the YFZ

or just click here .... (http://web.csuchico.edu/~ss133/zdrags.wmv)

trueblue450
09-23-2003, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by norcal.z400
my Z400 put out a lot of HP for not that much money. I parted out my mods though and am selling the bike. I had 45-50 rwhp for under $1500

look on Z400central for some videos that I posted smart guy. I was intending to get a 450R .... but now am going with the YFZ

or just click here .... (http://web.csuchico.edu/~ss133/zdrags.wmv)

Good choice!

09-24-2003, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by norcal.z400
my Z400 put out a lot of HP for not that much money. I parted out my mods though and am selling the bike. I had 45-50 rwhp for under $1500

look on Z400central for some videos that I posted smart guy. I was intending to get a 450R .... but now am going with the YFZ

or just click here .... (http://web.csuchico.edu/~ss133/zdrags.wmv)

Cool. Enjoy your YFZ. They are a real nice machine. And fast when modded too. WHat made you decide to sell the "ALMIGHTY" Z?

RoadkillerRyan
09-24-2003, 04:14 PM
58 hp?? on the new 450 quad w/ hard work and a pipe??:eek2: :rolleyes:

robby26wi
10-01-2003, 09:33 AM
take like 10 or more away then u are close

JOEX
10-01-2003, 11:23 PM
I'm leaning towards BS.....

Why would the driver open up the truck at a McDonalds parking lot?

Joe

TGW_400ex
10-02-2003, 04:46 AM
Everyone of the threads start talkin about the 450r and then end up talkin about how the going to buy the YFZ450?:huh stop it and wait for the quad beforee you make a decision ITS NOT OUT U CANT TELL HOW GOOD IT IS

robby26wi
10-02-2003, 09:45 AM
I am not gonna get a yfz :)...But i am keepin my kfx440..

Bunkerking217
10-02-2003, 10:09 PM
the 450r will have around 54 hp stock and 61 with the kit (that is from a honda rep)

robby26wi
10-02-2003, 10:10 PM
he must be a well paid rep to BS that much..Kinda funny how they can detune a motor a TON and still make more horsepower then when it did in the bike...hmmm...How they do that

Bunkerking217
10-02-2003, 10:12 PM
im telling what ive heard, go tell honda that not me

Woody_YFZ
10-03-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Bunkerking217
the 450r will have around 54 hp stock and 61 with the kit (that is from a honda rep)

What's that Honda rep smoking?? The CRF motorcycle puts out 49 hp, I doubt the quad is going to be putting out more.

Woody_YFZ
10-03-2003, 12:05 AM
Here's an interesting tid bit. In the ATV action October issue they compare the YFZ and the Predator. The Predator puts out about 6 more hp than the YFZ, yet the YFZ whipped it in every category but the drag race. The reason is because the YFZ revs so much quicker and is easier to shift. My point being that horse power doesn't necessarily mean faster or stronger. There are a lot of things that come into the equation. A good example is the KFX 400 and the Raptor. The Raptor has more hp by quite a bit, but the KFX will usually kill the Raptor just because of it's handling ability.

Bunkerking217
10-03-2003, 05:41 AM
the crf puts out 54 at the crank. those number could also be at the crank

raptor_02
10-04-2003, 01:33 PM
guys i'd hate to burst your bubble but i'd say a bone stock 450R quad will have between 32-37 horsepower depending on how much airflow the stock exhaust gets. The YFZ has around 35 bone stock and I don't see the CRF having much more. Actually with the low compression on the CRF I'm guessing it will have a little less than 35 stock. Just my opinion.

TGW_400ex
10-04-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by raptor_02
guys i'd hate to burst your bubble but i'd say a bone stock 450R quad will have between 32-37 horsepower depending on how much airflow the stock exhaust gets. The YFZ has around 35 bone stock and I don't see the CRF having much more. Actually with the low compression on the CRF I'm guessing it will have a little less than 35 stock. Just my opinion.

you might wanna fix your sig its a TRX450r and CRF450 is a dirtbike;)

Bunkerking217
10-04-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Woody_YFZ
What's that Honda rep smoking?? The CRF motorcycle puts out 49 hp, I doubt the quad is going to be putting out more.


im not saying anything, but that honda rep is also the same guy who told me back in may that honda was coming out with a 450 quad....you decide

SoUpX
10-05-2003, 12:26 AM
I'm leaning more towards what Bunkerking217
is saying, the engine is NOT the same engine that is in the bike, it has been designed to fit the application. I dont know if they will really be that high but higher than what we are expecting.. Besides Honda is just saving the best for last.

norrisboat
10-05-2003, 12:42 AM
I heard from my honda rep that the trx450r is going to put out 192hp. 185hp at the rear wheel. WOW. Belive it or not.

terko440
10-05-2003, 07:03 AM
I heard 186 norrisboat.

Bunkerking217
10-05-2003, 08:08 AM
now thats just stupid. the 1100 turbo'ed jet skis only put out 165 (thats a 4-cylinder)

im not saying im taking up for honda or yamaha, but before, i thought the honda would not stand a chance speed wise. after seeing tim farr ride one on that video, im taking second thoughts. but he could also have done a lot to it...

TGW_400ex
10-05-2003, 08:56 AM
My 400ex has 192.563 HP and its dead stock BRING IT ON:p

crazycraz
10-05-2003, 10:15 AM
I don't know what anyone else thinks, but the 400ex only puts out about 27 horsepower at the rear wheels. Back in the october issue of atv action when the yfz took on the predator, the yfz was dynoed at about 37 horsepower when everyone i talked to thought it would put out 45. The predator was then dynoed and put out 42-43 horsepower. That goes to show you can't believe anything you see or hear. One other thing, the yfz is detuned a little making it a 440, the trx may be detuned in some aspects, but is still a true 450. I'm not saying the trx will have more power, but it does have a displacement advantage.:)

norrisboat
10-05-2003, 03:14 PM
Well its true bunkerking. It will put out that much horsepower.

crazycraz
10-05-2003, 03:33 PM
c'mon, this isn't the april fools 750ex we're talking about! Get real. The 450r will put out around 40 hp tops. I do think it will have more bottom end and mid range hit than the yammie and for those that like to do some trail riding now and then will love it. And I think having very good low to midrange power is just as important or more as having very good top end power for closed course racing. Just my opinion.:grr:

crazycraz
10-05-2003, 04:52 PM
I'm not a biased person. I'm not saying the trx will be better, it's not out yet and that's how everyone should feel. People can bash all they want but one that stands true is that honda has the best reliability record and that's why I am a honda guy. That's why I will buy a trx450r Not because it's the best looking or the fastest. If you have to fix it all the time you don't ride much. I believe honda put in a lot of time on this quad before they released it to make it the best overall quad out there. The crf motor is proven along with the yfz motor. Yamaha had to come up with a new frame design because they had to. All there other frames were alright but most would have to agree they have all had they're fair share of problems. Honda on the other hand, has had awesome frames such as the 250r and the 400ex, so I don't blame them for incorporating both frame designs in the 450r. With the handling capabilities of both those frames in a 450r combined with the crf motor, I believe this quad will hang with the best!

raptor_02
10-06-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by TGW_400ex
you might wanna fix your sig its a TRX450r and CRF450 is a dirtbike;) i fixed it buddie, thanks for looking out for me :D

TGW_400ex
10-06-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by raptor_02
i fixed it buddie, thanks for looking out for me :D

Fixed it? You made it worse:p j/j

raptor_02
10-07-2003, 11:03 AM
i like the new Honda but I'm wanting a quad now and don't feel like waiting. The loanofficer of my bank is suppose to give me a call back and let me know if I'm approved so I may be a proud owner of a YFZ today.

TGW_400ex
10-07-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by raptor_02
i like the new Honda but I'm wanting a quad now and don't feel like waiting. The loanofficer of my bank is suppose to give me a call back and let me know if I'm approved so I may be a proud owner of a YFZ today.

I think you should wait until the 450r comes out but thats my opinion;)

Woody_YFZ
10-08-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by raptor_02
i like the new Honda but I'm wanting a quad now and don't feel like waiting. The loanofficer of my bank is suppose to give me a call back and let me know if I'm approved so I may be a proud owner of a YFZ today.

No matter what Honda comes out with. You won't be disappointed with the YFZ. It is an awesome quad. If you change your mind, you can always get the trx next year when it comes out and the price drops.

crazycraz
10-09-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Woody_YFZ
No matter what Honda comes out with. You won't be disappointed with the YFZ. It is an awesome quad. If you change your mind, you can always get the trx next year when it comes out and the price drops. I don't know man, the YFZ seems a little overrated. Just kidding.:D The YFZ is a awesome bike, I give yamaha a lot of props for bringing out such a mean, lean, speed demon machine. I like it. If it were'nt but one thing, it's not a honda. I'm a honda guy (not fanatic) and I think honda has made something that will give the YFZ a run for it's money. Either way anybody goes, they won't be dissapointed with either of these machines.

Woody_YFZ
10-10-2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by crazycraz
I don't know man, the YFZ seems a little overrated. Just kidding.:D The YFZ is a awesome bike, I give yamaha a lot of props for bringing out such a mean, lean, speed demon machine. I like it. If it were'nt but one thing, it's not a honda. I'm a honda guy (not fanatic) and I think honda has made something that will give the YFZ a run for it's money. Either way anybody goes, they won't be dissapointed with either of these machines.

I can respect that.

Bretmd94
10-10-2003, 11:30 AM
Im gonna guess that the YZF and the TRX450r are going to be Pretty close bikes performance wise. We really wont tell untill the 450R comes out. I have more faith in Honda after buying an 01 Raptor. I will never own a Yamaha again after that POS. Having to spend 800$ on a tranny that breaks on every 01 and getting no help from Yamaha is bs. Yamaha doesnt take care of their customers. I really dont care if the YZF is way better than the 450R. I really just dont want to support yamaha, thats why im on the list for a 450R. Honda has the reliability also, they have proven that they put time into making sure their bikes arent lemons. Yamaha has proven that they push stuff out the door too quickly. It wouldnt have taken much to realise those tranny's were crap on the 01 Raptors. :mad:

ATC83
10-10-2003, 01:46 PM
I have owned 5 Hondas over the last 20 years and I think they build good quality machines but they have had quality issues just like Yamaha. My 2000 400EX came with a defective upper a-arm that I had to replace and Honda wouldn't fix it.

crazycraz
10-10-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by ATC83
I have owned 5 Hondas over the last 20 years and I think they build good quality machines but they have had quality issues just like Yamaha. My 2000 400EX came with a defective upper a-arm that I had to replace and Honda wouldn't fix it. I have to agree with you. All machines have their problems. All we are saying is that honda has a better reputation for bringing something new out that will last. Oh yeah, when honda wouldn't fix your defective upper a-arm, was it still under warranty?

crazycraz
10-10-2003, 08:25 PM
Almost forgot the good news, I was pre-approved for the new trx450r yesterday. I know some of you will debate my decission but I like honda and their reputation for building good machines. My 400ex has been ridden hard and I haven't had a lick of trouble with it. It's time has passed and it's time for something new. It was a hard decision to choose the honda over the yamaha. The yfz is an awesome bike but i'll stick with big red. :)

dirtriderex
10-10-2003, 09:54 PM
Good choice, but i would wait and save more money up to ride next season, instead of getting a loan

crazycraz
10-11-2003, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by dirtriderex
Good choice, but i would wait and save more money up to ride next season, instead of getting a loan my local honda dealer gave me a good deal on my 400ex and the loan would be a 4.9%. I do have money saved up and will continue to save until it comes out plus the money left over from my trade in I will have a good downpayment on the 450r.

dirtriderex
10-11-2003, 08:18 PM
how much he given you for your 400, and how much is he charging you for the 450r?

crazycraz
10-12-2003, 02:16 PM
They are giving me $3600 for my 400 and are selling the 450r for $6499.

Bretmd94
10-12-2003, 07:41 PM
I can understand an A arm being defective, But its not defective on every 400ex ever built. One defective A arm is the fault of the place that made the a arms for Honda. Its not because the engineers were slacking when they designed it.

But having the tranny go out on every 01 Raptor is the fault of crappy engineers and the lack of testing. In other words they were pressed for time and pushed it out the door. Yes there might be some 01 raptors still with stock gears, but if they are ridden hard at all, they will break. I know a guy that had his under warranty and they kept putting 01 gears back in it. He blew the tranny twice. Sold it when the warranty was up.

Ive never seen problems like that out of Honda's. They also seem to last a bit longer. I beat the crap out of my 400ex. I ride that thing to death, and it has never failed me. My Raptor was never running right. My freinds banshee's always have problems.

Im glad Yamaha finally made some decent competition for real racing (not drag) But I wouldnt trust that bike at all. Not for a year at least. You shouldnt put any trust into yamaha's engineering. But hey, maybe they learned their lesson.

terko440
10-12-2003, 08:13 PM
What year is your 400 crazy?

ATC83
10-13-2003, 08:15 AM
Like I said before, I've owned Honda's all my life. I got my first ATC in 1983 but Honda is not perfect. When I compare my 400EX to my 02 Raptor, I have found the quality on the Raptor to be better. I know people have has problems with 01 Raptors but I have never had a problem with my 02 Raptor and I have never met anyone that has has a problem with an 02 or newer Raptor and I have come across hundreds of people with Raptors while out riding. When I compare my Raptor to my 400EX there is just alot of little things that I find better on the Raptor. For instance, unlike my Raptor, the frame on the 400EX started to rust shortly after I boght it. That kind of pissed me off. I have never had that problem on any of my other hondas. This didn't happen from lack of maintence, I take meticulouse care of the 400EX. I never leave it outside and I always wash it after I ride. In addition there are no grease fittings on the 400EX unlike the Raptor. It's just that little extra attention to detail that has impressed me about Yamaha. I'm just trying to be fair and objectionable about this. I know that people will get all pissed that I said something good about Yamaha but I'm just giving my observations from owning these to different machines.

Bretmd94
10-13-2003, 11:16 AM
I will agree that the 02 and newer Raptors are decent bikes. They did fix some of the stuff. But the bikes are still way top heavy. They are a complete pain to jet. Changing the oil is almost as big of a pain as jetting. How many times have you over filled when changing the oil? Im really not impressed with the Raptor at all. Only 39hp out of a huge motor. I did beef mine up a ton. Dyno'd at 54hp to the wheels on dyno wheels. Extended the rear swing arm +4. It was fast and the front wheels didnt come up much anymore. But thats all it was good for. I tried jumping it some and ripped the front shock from the frame.

I sold it to buy a new truck, and now im borrowing a pretty much stock 400ex from my dad untill my 450 gets here. I enjoy the 400ex way more. Its so much nicer to just ride around on. I raced my friend on his beefed up raptor around a lake on the dunes and embarassed him. I also out jump all of my friends (they ride banshee's and raptors) Im even faster when we are jsut mobbing across the dunes because i can hit whoops faster. I have to wait up for them.

If you want a 4 stroke drag bike, get a raptor. Otherwise they really are more of a pain for me than anything.

I to have had many 3 wheelers btw. I had an 85 350x that was bought brand new. I never should have sold it. That bike ran perfect for 17 years straight. Faster than my 400ex too.

ATC83
10-13-2003, 12:23 PM
I have the same problem with my Raptor, I always overfill the oil but that doesn't bother me that much. Just wait until you get that TRX450 because if the oil change procedure is anything like the CRF450 your going to be swearing avery time you change the oil. Having seperate oil comparments is a real pain in the ***. Don't get me wrong, it's a cool design but a pain in the ***. I love my Raptor. I'm so addicted to the power that engine makes. I know that the Raptor has a high center of gravity but I have fixed that with extended axle, swing arm and widened a-arms and new shocks. With these mods in combination with a pipe and filter, makes the raptor rip. The only thing I don't like about the Raptor is all the money you have to spend on it to get it to handle well. I like riding my 400EX but even with a built motor it can't even begine to compare to the power of the Raptor. The 400EX might have a slight edge to my moded raptor in the handleing department but not much. The additional power of the Raptor more than makes up for the handling issue. I agree with you I should have never sold any of the three wheelers that I ussed to own. I bought them all new.

crazycraz
10-13-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by terko440
What year is your 400 crazy? My 400ex is a 2003. Some would say it's not even broke in yet but I ride the hell out of it. I've flipped it once and $700 dollars later I restored it all back to stock mint condition. The impact hurt like a b**tch. The frame and suspension held up but most of the of the rest didn't.

Woody_YFZ
10-14-2003, 06:37 AM
Just a little comment on the '01 Raptors. First of all, everybody has not had to replace their trannys, a lot of them figured it out early and put a tooth smaller on the front sprocket and that seemed to fix it. I had three '01 Raptors and replaced the trannys on two of them and no Yamaha was no help. However in their defense, they didn't just throw it together, they had that motor in European bikes (motorcycles) for quite a few years, they just under estimated the stress that a quad puts on the tranny. I own a rental company and my bikes get ridden a lot. Since 2002, I haven't had a single problem with my Raptor rentals. I change the oil regularly and that's all I have to do. I'm not sure what you mean by over filling the oil in some earlier comments. I have never over filled the oil. The manual tells you how much to put in, if you put that much in, then you are set. I won't disagree, you can't go wrong with Honda, but I don't think Yamaha just throws things together, but I think they learned the hard way with the Raptor tranny problem. At least I hope they learned their lesson.