GNCC Sound Levels...

[465Stroker]

Well - I know the HMF Cannondale pipe came in at 108db, Alba YFZ450 pipe registered at 109db - anyone else get warned to have there exhausts at or below the new 104db for the next GNCC race?

Interesting Note: While watching the dirtbikes on Saturday night go thru tech inspection for an hour - It seems that Racer Productions is only picking on the ATV's since I did not see one dirtbike checked for sound levels.

Another Interesting Note: Most manufactures of exhausts for dirtbikes make exhaust systems ATV's using the SAME type of silencers - why are we getting picked on?

I am all for quieter exhausts - BUT let's get rid of the rules that are so grey and start making it black and white ON paper! Are there sound level rules set by the ATVA that I am unaware of?

[Bart]

I know of several other ATVers who were warned to tone it down on Sat before the next GNCC. Guess it's time to put the stock exhausts back on.

[cdalejef]

Yep, they got me at 108 too :grr:

[Admin]

I didn't even get checked with my Z400 HMF pipe, but the R in front of me did, and he got a warning.

I am with you Rick on the noise levels, and I wonder if the only the ATVs where checked?

[LS@GtThunder]

I was tested at 106db and was told on no uncertain terms that I could not race the next race with the same exhaust.

An LT500 several pit spots down was tested at 109db (he was one of the first ones thru tech) and was told that he could not run on Saturday - his response was "whatever, I am going to race anyway"

Seems they had planned to crack down on Saturday already but met with some resistance. If they are only going to test at the tech tent - We can all pass with flying colors - spot tests at the finish might show differant results.

Spell out the rules in black and white, enforce them across the board - bikes and quads - No problem here.

I will send an e-mail requesting more info on this to Racer Productions. If any one gets detailed info on what they will enforce please let me know.

LS

I had a pretty good line in front of me at the morning inspection and didn't see anyone getting checked:confused:

[465Stroker]

Anyone have an extra db meter in there tool box so that I can get to work on this?

I guess we are to call up the manufactures and have them drop what they are doing and have new exhausts or upgrades available within the next two weeks...

Did anyone pass? If so - please state your make and model of quad and exhaust (slip-on or full system).

[LS@GtThunder]

I just spoke to Jason at RP.

His resonse to several questions were as follows.

1. What criteria do we need to meet and how will the tests be done?

Ans. I dont know since we are new to this and there are no criteria in place but we will call you back.

2. How will it be enforced?

Ans. You will not be DQ,d at the next race but you will be issued a written warning and must have it fixed by Indiana. Next year there will be no warnings - you just cant race or you will be dq'd.

He also added that this is a result of complaints from spectators and vendors regarding noise levels.

LS

[465Stroker]

Sounds like Silent Sport (GNCC Vendor that makes special exhaust packing) will be busy in Indiana....

[seatec]

WHy is it that they are cracking down on Dirt bikes and QUads with the exhaust stuff. Ever been to a Nascar race? Well, you know what i mean. A GNCC is everybit a "REL"Race as NASCAR is. lets see if they will crack down on their straight exhaust system. NOT!!!!!. this is just bull****. pardon my language

Originally posted by LS@GtThunder


He also added that this is a result of complaints from spectators and vendors regarding noise levels.

LS


I guess these same jackazz's would go to a nascar race and complain about the noise. STAY HOME IF IT'S TOO LOUD..:mad:

i never even got checked all year. i got a pro circuit pipe with bad packing. i guess i was lucky.

[465Stroker]

Checked Silent Sports website www.silentsport.com There are no claims to making you exhaust any quieter from what I can see.

Harlen - Can you get ahold of silent sport to see if they want to be a member and help us take care of this sound issue with our current exhaust systems?

Anyone know how much a down turned tip will help on the db meter? Maybe this is all we need?

[Bart]

It would be interesting to know if the Pros were tested (and warned) as well. Maybe Johnny C, Derisi, Duvall (others?) can comment?

[lshonda310]

a turn down helps alot, especially when they have the meter 1 foot from the rear of the quad. Another thing is when you give it some throttle, barely give it any so it won't be as loud, the rules need to be written so the meter has to be a specified distance and the engine at a specified rpm.

[bradley300]

i didnt get checked with the stock pipe

it seems like a turn down would help quite a bit, they are checking db levels from a few feet behind your quad and a turn down pushes the noise down, not outwards.

[LS@GtThunder]

Originally posted by lshonda310
a turn down helps alot, especially when they have the meter 1 foot from the rear of the quad. Another thing is when you give it some throttle, barely give it any so it won't be as loud, the rules need to be written so the meter has to be a specified distance and the engine at a specified rpm.

The testing that I watched being done was done at 1' to 3' from the back of the bike - in direct line with the exit of the exhaust. On one bike with a turn down - he held the meter down close to the ground to get the reading.

LS

[465Stroker]

Sounds like they will need to produce a certified db meter reader?? What are the typical rules for say an AMA supercross race? How far back, how high, what location - middle or exhaust side, etc..

[cdalejef]

They used to do this in the mid 90's, they would hold the meter 3' straight out from the end of the exhaust to take the reading. An easy quick way to pass is clamp a motorcycle tube about 6" long to the end of your exhaust. That brings the sound way down. Most pipe manuf. makes quiet core's for their pipes but I'm not sure how much power that will choke off.
I'll ask some of my bike friends if they got tested on sunday just to see if we are being singled out.

[jlhughes750]

hey Stroker!!!!

a few years ago when they first started, my R was too loud i went back and repacked it then was aloud to race!!! Then everyone was warned about Fat Boy silencers tips coming off!!!

Anyway!!! Go to a local sound shop, stereo shop. take the bike and have them check it. most REAL custom stereo shops have one and will gladly do it for free, just to be able to check out the quads..

Also in reply to the questions and answers from RP. he said he did not know cause it was new to them?????????? its been in place for over 5 years???? what the heck??? i raced Tatlortown, first GNCC on an R for years. The guy did not check it, i asked if he could anyway to so i knew where i was(it was fresh). He said they don't always check it depends on the land owner?????

[Braff1]

Doesn't the people and vendors watching that this is a RACE. Go watch NASCAR if you want to talk about loud. Performance engines tend to run loud exhaust, gotta move the air to make the power. I haven't seen pipe manufactors working to make their pipes quieter with the exception of their "quiet cores" that choke them down so much you are better off using the stock pipe. It sounds like a policy that needs to be warned of this year and enforced for the full season next year.

The one car testing over at Ky speedway was louder than the whole PM class warming up.

[lt250r91]

They checked me at the race tto. I told the guy not ot even bother becuase it was a stock pipe on the old Cdale. I guess I passed because he didn't say anything. Remember if they're going to check only at the tech tent. Just throw the stock silencer on and switch it afterwards.

[240GNCC400]

im glad they are chacking sound levels. ive been stuck behind some people who had rediculous "silencers". gave me headaches. they need to be consistent though. they tested my dad in the morning on a blaster, but they didnt test me on an EX.

on another note, why dont they start checking number backgrounds again. ive seen a ton of B riders running red or white backgrounds. i dont want to pull over on the last lap to let by what i think is a pro, just to find out its somebody from my class. (only happened once this year, but pissed me off)

[tprender]

They used to check sound back in the early 90's at the GNCC events. I did it one year for them at LL's. they gave me a broken meter and said look like you are doing something. If they ask what there reading was, I was told to say about 99. thi8s wa what the person that was running tech that day told me to say. You will see about 3 different ways to do a sond reading. Each one will give a different level. If the meter is heald at a different angle or position you will get a different reading. Most are supposed to be straight back level with the exhaust, not on the ground. That is why people use the turned downs.
There is an AMA rule for sound, but no one ever checks for sound. with the laws in Calif and some of the other states, don't be surprised that it will happen wi us also in the future. I have been told that they do some checking at Supercross events.

Maybe they should start giving out tissues at the sign in gate for all the dam crybabies. It's a friggen outdoor event with race bikes. I can understand not letting someone run straight header pipes but come on. I think some people cry just because they have tear ducts...:rolleyes:

[WOOLIN]

They got me at 106 and said it would be measured at 1/4 throttle at St. Clairsville.:confused:

If someone has a problem with the noise put in some damn earplugs!!!:grr:

Sounds as if every C-dale that went thru got checked. Not only are they singlin out quads but them POS dales are on the top of their list....:eek:

[WOOLIN]

I'm sure we will come up with a quick fix for the problem.

[joedirt]

They checked me. They put that fah ken thing like 6" away from my silencer. It passed ALL YOU STROKERS ARE LOUD AND DON'T MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. We aren't that loud as for saying that people are complaining he's full of chit. That dude at racer productions has been known to lie I don't care for him too much anyway. there just picking on us

[rowlrag]

I was clocked at 109, but the dude stuck his meter in the pipe didn't even do it right, 248 riders in the afternoon, maybe a hand full were quite, so if nobody changes you think Bradley300 could possible overall if everyone else is DQ'ed even Pro's? GNCC would loose there *****! I watched sunday and did not see 1 bike checked, said the meter was messed up, NO duh! after stickin it in the muffler. If people are *****in bout the noise saturday, then there not there for our races!

[popo]

In the past we carried sound decibel meters in the cruisers. This practice was immediately halted due to the fact. Too many court cases where lost, & lawsuit’s filed against the city.

Defense attorneys brought in sound experts and presented that, a hand held sound measuring device did not produce an accurate reading based on, there was no background white noise present at the time of calibration or during the test.

In layman terms. White noise contains all frequencies, it is frequently used to mask other sounds. If you are in a hotel and voices from the room next-door are leaking into your room, you might turn on a fan to drown out the voices. The fan produces a good approximation of white noise. Or while Rowlrag is in the private jiggy room waxing his worm… the music is cranked so we can’t hear him. Thank God!

I would be curios to see what a V-Force 700 with dual HMF’s registered at?

[quadnice]

They run sound tests here @ certain promoters events, ie.. Norseman. We have to be under 100db, but the rules here are 20" out at 45 degree angle, 20" from the ground. The bikes & quads have their own rpm's to be measured at, from some DNR book that gives the set requirements. The 2 stroke guys are tested @ like 5-7k rpm's, & 4 strokes are around 3k. Our first event made everyone nervous, as the tests were NOT accurate, I worked the sound tests their!!! It was a joke, $100 Radio Shack testers, the #'s were all over the board. My Z blew a 96 db w/ turndowned tip & medium quiet core insert. The next event, NO insert, only turn down tip (homemade) & $1500 DNR tester & my quad blows 94db lol
BTW - Yoshi pipe, 434 high comp, etc.......

[465Stroker]

Are they gonna have a tachometer to make sure we are at exactly half throttle or at least the suggested RPM? If not - It's BS to DQ someone on the basis of a ref's opinion that they were at the right RPM.....

[holeshot19]

is a gncc race not on a closed circut coarse. isnt that what most exaust companys say pipes designed 4.

Originally posted by holeshot19
is a gncc race not on a closed circut coarse. isnt that what most exaust companys say pipes designed 4.

I wouldn't say it's a closed course due to the fact that they run about 9 miles into the woods. I've never seen a house while racing.:huh

[quadnice]

The tach!!! Forgot to mention those, the ones we used, rest against your clutch cover, or where ever they feel like resting it - lol! It looks like, a mini version, of an electrians fish line wire, (3" diameter) The higher the rpm setting, the further it twists out. Ideally, tip of the gauge starts vibrating from the correct rpm setting, then test db once your @ correct rpm for your machine.
Oh Yeah - Dang tree huggers!!!

[jlhughes750]

your all gettin your air filters clogged over nothing!!! calm down!!! keep it freshly packed and you'll be in every time, thats all they want!!! at T town a Pro on a dale lost his pipe and kept on the gas the whole race .... so next round there checking everyone!!Its just procedure, it'll pass!!!

IN the early ninetys the Fat Boys ends were coming off so they started checking all the time!! it'll pass. Just keep em packed fresh!!

later, J

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by jlhughes750
your all gettin your air filters clogged over nothing!!! calm down!!! keep it freshly packed and you'll be in every time, thats all they want!!! at T town a Pro on a dale lost his pipe and kept on the gas the whole race .... so next round there checking everyone!!Its just procedure, it'll pass!!!

IN the early ninetys the Fat Boys ends were coming off so they started checking all the time!! it'll pass. Just keep em packed fresh!!

later, J Mine was brand new and pulled a 108:(

[jlhughes750]

WOW i guess there might be an advantage to 2 strokers afterall!! Good Luck Jeff!!;)

[Pappy]

first off.....what BS is this coming from spectators and vendors:huh both come to watch race machines race:grr: id like a list of the vendors complaining because i will black ball them and thier products.

im all for being a responsible racer and noise is a big concern....but they better get thier chit together or i see a bloody lip when someoen has traveled 9 hours only to be told they cant race.

[LS@GtThunder]

I just spoke to ATVA Director Doug Morris to find out what the AMA regulations are. They have a sound test manuel that he is sending me that has very clear guidelines on sound testing - however they have a lower DB regulation then Racer Productions has listed in their rules.

I again spoke with Jason at RP and was pleased to find that they have very good intentions in what they are doing. They really want guys to have freshly packed and good working silencers and are not in any way wanting to turn anybody away or DQ anybody. After testing a lot of bikes including some stock bikes , they are developing a good test method that will help enforce reasonable sound rules. They do not want to take a - anything goes attitude - they want something that will work within reasonable limits.

As 4 strokes become more prevalant, and as population increases, we will see more and strictor sound rules in the future.

LS

[cdalejef]

Good news Laz....thanks for the info!

[465Stroker]

Sounds good. Maybe even give the tech an oven mitten so he can make sure that the silencers are nice and tight too.


Originally posted by LS@GtThunder
I just spoke to ATVA Director Doug Morris to find out what the AMA regulations are. They have a sound test manuel that he is sending me that has very clear guidelines on sound testing - however they have a lower DB regulation then Racer Productions has listed in their rules.

I again spoke with Jason at RP and was pleased to find that they have very good intentions in what they are doing. They really want guys to have freshly packed and good working silencers and are not in any way wanting to turn anybody away or DQ anybody. After testing a lot of bikes including some stock bikes , they are developing a good test method that will help enforce reasonable sound rules. They do not want to take a - anything goes attitude - they want something that will work within reasonable limits.

As 4 strokes become more prevalant, and as population increases, we will see more and strictor sound rules in the future.

LS

[400exmom]

uhh im SURE mine will be over the limit its freakin loud and if i even drove 1 hour to race and they turn me away cuz of "noise" i would come unglued and voice my opinion and never return

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by 400exmom
uhh im SURE mine will be over the limit its freakin loud and if i even drove 1 hour to race and they turn me away cuz of "noise" i would come unglued and voice my opinion and never return No worries Kim, there are lots of little easy tricks to make them pass.

[400exmom]

ill settle down my hothead was gettin carried away thinkin someone tellin me what to do with my pipe...grrrrr...and god forbid tell me to go home no race for you!!...scary

[joedirt]

YA KNOW WHAT I'M DOIN UN PACKING MY SILENCER JUST TO MAKE A STATEMENT AND SO ALL YOU 4 BANGERS CAN HEAR ME

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by joedirt
YA KNOW WHAT I'M DOIN UN PACKING MY SILENCER JUST TO MAKE A STATEMENT AND SO ALL YOU 4 BANGERS CAN HEAR ME We don't have to hear you, we can smell you!

[seatec]

ZINGGGG

[lt250r91]

I'd put money on it that the Mullet Man is behind this.
He threaten me to either quiet down my stock Cannondale or he was going to do it for me at the last race after they did the sound test. He was sitting on his 4-wheeler just watching the Tech test the pipes.
I say someone needs to bring an air horn and just keep blowing the thing all day long.

What's next they going to tell us no beer at the track.

[jlhughes750]

sshhhh don't give em any ideas!!!!!:eek2:

no beer would suck, but then it is a race??? nahhh it would suck!!:confused:


Mulletman always says keep it freshly packed..... and we won't have a problem...;) :confused:


later, J

Originally posted by lt250r91


What's next they going to tell us no beer at the track.


There'll be a cold day in he11 before that happens...:mad:

[papaw]

all they want is your money any way at these races.i dont see why they would not let you race.i remember this year in fla.after the pro quads were done the announcer said if you raced your quad please leave to make room for the bikes.they already had our money thay didn't need us anymore.......

[Ryan]

I still don't see why you have to be under 106db's? If it is a closed course race, there shouldn't be a problem with the noise levels. And why would the spectators complain? They know its gonna be loud. If they can't handle it, then they shouldn't be at the race.

[AndreS]

sound checks are nothing new to me. they check at many of the poker runs & races up here for both spark arresters & sound levels (20" back from exhaust tip @ 45 degrees, 1/3 throttle) sound level in WA is 97db

think 104db is strict?
at oregon dunes we have to pass a 91db +/-2db sound check... if the commies(cops) catch you. they patrol staging areas looking for loud bikes too.

i ended up buying my own db meter ($36 for the analog) and a digital tach($50). cheap insurance to make sure you & your buds can ride/race w/o hassles.

The rules from the AMA are that the meter be held level to the exhaust, 45 degrees to the side, 20 inches from the exhaust tip, at about 3,500 RPM's with minumal wind and at least 16 feet from a large solid structure like a house or car.

[ex kid]

joedirt was sayin how loud the 4 strokes are and i see why that would piss off a two stroke rider. an idea from me would be: an A class racer or above should be allowed a higher Db level than the lower classes, because when a open/250A guy comes up on a lapper in whatever class and there on an R with an LRD and the lapper is on a Dale with an HMF the lapper can barley hear the A rider yellin at him. just a idea dont flip dudes.

[400exmom]

im bringin a freakin box of foam earplugs settem next to my quad with a free sign next to it- and if i feel like bein a ****** maybe ill bring a case of tissues- take away my only aftermarket part i have to help me out in the race..k.. but its gettin a bit outa hand if ya ask me:rolleyes:

[David]

I was wondering how loud is the Big Gun Quiet for a 400ex. And if the 400ex can breath good with the Quiet? Or is the Race version way better?

[Braff1]

Originally posted by 400exmom
im bringin a freakin box of foam earplugs settem next to my quad with a free sign next to it- and if i feel like bein a ****** maybe ill bring a case of tissues- take away my only aftermarket part i have to help me out in the race..k.. but its gettin a bit outa hand if ya ask me:rolleyes:

They should sale the foam ear plugs and the big ear muffs at the race for those that think it is too loud. Think, more money for the GNCC. Go to a nascar race and see how much you have to pay for them.

[rowlrag]

Originally posted by popo
In the past we carried sound decibel meters in the cruisers. This practice was immediately halted due to the fact. Too many court cases where lost, & lawsuit’s filed against the city.
Or while Rowlrag is in the private jiggy room waxing his worm… the music is cranked so we can’t hear him. Thank God!

registered at? HEY my worm waxin don't make noise, but yer old lady does:eek2:

[rowlrag]

Originally posted by LS@GtThunder
I just spoke to ATVA Director Doug Morris to find out what the AMA regulations are. They have a sound test manuel that he is sending me that has very clear guidelines on sound testing - however they have a lower DB regulation then Racer Productions has listed in their rules.

I again spoke with Jason at RP and was pleased to find that they have very good intentions in what they are doing. They really want guys to have freshly packed and good working silencers and are not in any way wanting to turn anybody away or DQ anybody. After testing a lot of bikes including some stock bikes , they are developing a good test method that will help enforce reasonable sound rules. They do not want to take a - anything goes attitude - they want something that will work within reasonable limits.

As 4 strokes become more prevalant, and as population increases, we will see more and strictor sound rules in the future.

LS
Sounds to me that SILENTSPORT needs money back from there advertising.

[JOEX]

It sure sounds like you all in the midweast have some kinks to work out on the noise issues.
Like AndreS posted, out here we have stricter limits, 93bd at the Oregon Dunes.

The procedure for testing is supposed to be:

As defined by state and federal law, vehicle sound is measured by a decibel meter 20 inches and 45 degrees for the exhaust outlet. ATVs and motorcycles are tested at 50% of the manufacture’s RPM recommendation. Class II vehicles are tested at 75% of the engine’s maximum RPM.

As for the vendors that are complaining about the noise... go to the State/County Fair to sell your over priced $HIT!

If you are a spectator, why the hell are you going to a motor sport race if you are sensitive to noise!?!

Joe

[Bart]

I missed St. Clairsville. Any updates on the sound checks? What should be expected at the Ironman? Next year?

[ZRacer]

There wasn't any checking at Tech in Ohio. I think Racers Productions want everyone to police their own sound levels. They made an issue about it at Kentucky to make everyone aware of what could happen if the noise levels stay out of hand. I guess we will know more at the Iron Man, but I don't think anyone should worry about not being allowed to race because of the noise level currently, but we all should try to keep are quads running as quiet as possible to prevent this ruling in the future.

[popo]

Originally posted by rowlrag
HEY my worm waxin don't make noise, but yer old lady does:eek2:

Well your mom isn't the most quiet either. :D :D

[tprender]

I hate sound testing, but some of the 4-stokes are getting to loud. I have to go to court this Friday to try and help out a motocross promoter who is being taken to court by his neighbor over sound at the MX track. this is his way to try and shut down the place saying that it makes to much noise.

[member]

they think 106 dbs is alot?????? man try goin to a NHRA event and try not to put your hands over your ears when the nitros are runnin, plus ear plugs are 8 bucks for the ones with plastic thing to keep it to yiour head and 2 bucks for the foam ones.!

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by seatec
WHy is it that they are cracking down on Dirt bikes and QUads with the exhaust stuff. Ever been to a Nascar race? Well, you know what i mean. A GNCC is everybit a "REL"Race as NASCAR is. lets see if they will crack down on their straight exhaust system. NOT!!!!!. this is just bull****. pardon my language

yeah and what about the straight pipes harleys that ride by pass my house all the time.?:confused:


your right its BS