Kick start only! =]

[Bretmd94]

I know a lot of people dont like it, but ever since i sold my 350x i have been wanting it back. I feel like im on a mom's bike when i push the start button. Nothing manly about pushing a button. But kicking it over and having that nice loud 4 stroke thump... yes... why do i have to wait till Jan....
:mad:

[Bill Fuller]

You must not be a woods racer.

[flyin#5]

i think its cool. i love kick start for some reason.

[EvilEwok]

I dont mind the kick, and im a woods runner. I love hearing that big bore thumper rev up. Seriously, I can not wait for this thing. I have been waiting since august to actually get a glimpse at this, and I am seriously stunned...I want it bad.

[honda350r]

Honda really dropped the ball on that one !!!

[seatec]

man of all the dumb comments. an e-start isnt manly. what a stupid thing to say. now i can understand that you dont want it for the weight savings but i assure you that if your in the woods on a very steep hill stalled out you wish you had that button. Not manly!! hehe.

[dirtriderex]

Bump on that

[400exrules]

Originally posted by Bretmd94
I know a lot of people dont like it, but ever since i sold my 350x i have been wanting it back. I feel like im on a mom's bike when i push the start button. Nothing manly about pushing a button. But kicking it over and having that nice loud 4 stroke thump... yes... why do i have to wait till Jan....
:mad:

u may think electric starts arent manly but id rather push a button on a hot day then use all my energy and break a sweat just tryin to kick it over

[DEAL]

Think about it.
People are going to probably mod the motor, up the compression and such.
If you have ever kicked over a large 4-stroke you will understand why electric start is a good thing.
I think it would be better off with the extra few pounds just to have an electric starter.....

[86atc250r]

Consider this - what do you do with your big bore, high compression engine when the electric start struggles? No upgrades are available. Mine struggles at times and my engine is only a 416 and is pretty mild on the compression.

Also consider this - I've been racing woods on my 400EX for 3 years now. There have been a number of times that I have had trouble with my electric start. With no backup system, I've lost anything from positions to the entire race - at those times you can bet I was cussing the e-start only.

I've also been beat off the line during a dead engine start more times than I care to count by people with kickers - and my 400 starts extremely easily compared to many.

For the last several years I've heard nothing but complaints about the electric start with no backup, about weight, about the 400ex being "low tech" and slow, about Honda not stepping up to the plate with supporting racers or giving us new models.

I've heard nothing but complaints when Cannondale gave us aluminum frames, efi, a real engine, etc...

You people make me sick at times with all your complaining. Every time I dig thru the forums I find people whining about this or that.. I'm thinking no matter what happens, you folks will always find something to complain about -- your lives must be miserable....

Right now is one of the best times our sport has ever seen... If you're unhappy now, you need to find something new.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Consider this - what do you do with your big bore, high compression engine when the electric start struggles? No upgrades are available. Mine struggles at times and my engine is only a 416 and is pretty mild on the compression.

Also consider this - I've been racing woods on my 400EX for 3 years now. There have been a number of times that I have had trouble with my electric start. With no backup system, I've lost anything from positions to the entire race - at those times you can bet I was cussing the e-start only.

I've also been beat off the line during a dead engine start more times than I care to count by people with kickers - and my 400 starts extremely easily compared to many.

For the last several years I've heard nothing but complaints about the electric start with no backup, about weight, about the 400ex being "low tech" and slow, about Honda not stepping up to the plate with supporting racers or giving us new models.

I've heard nothing but complaints when Cannondale gave us aluminum frames, efi, a real engine, etc...

You people make me sick at times with all your complaining. Every time I dig thru the forums I find people whining about this or that.. I'm thinking no matter what happens, you folks will always find something to complain about -- your lives must be miserable....

Right now is one of the best times our sport has ever seen... If you're unhappy now, you need to find something new.

Well Said!
:macho
Chad502EX.com

[Out_Sider]

i love electric start, i used to ride my friends 250x alot and i liked the kick start, but the e-start on my 300ex is SO much better- easy starting anytime!!

[EvilEwok]

weeellll, arnt you just special

[dirtriderex]

"You love hearing big bores rev up", well they rev up with a E-starter too. You guys are too ignorant, and think a kicker is for a man. Well when I come in ahead of you in a gncc race we'll see whos a man.:blah:

[James70214]

Most of you guys have never kicked over a crf450 before. They are so easy to do. They have an automatic decompression release so it doesn't matter how much compression you have. You can start it sitting down very easile in both the quad and bike.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Consider this - what do you do with your big bore, high compression engine when the electric start struggles? No upgrades are available. Mine struggles at times and my engine is only a 416 and is pretty mild on the compression.


13:1 compression machines run a bigger more powerful battery. :confused2

[EvilEwok]

e starter sound = ting a ling ting a ling

Thumper sound = bahrump

you lazy *** :P, ill keep my kick starter thank you

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by seatec
man of all the dumb comments. an e-start isnt manly. what a stupid thing to say. now i can understand that you dont want it for the weight savings but i assure you that if your in the woods on a very steep hill stalled out you wish you had that button. Not manly!! hehe. :D OOOOOOOOOOhhhh Yeeeeeaaaaa!!!!! I love having the Button! Roll that CRF when it's good and hot, and see how many kicks it takes!;) This is a concern due to my riding style!:p

[rowlrag]

Originally posted by 86atc250r


I've heard nothing but complaints when Cannondale gave us aluminum frames, efi, a real engine, etc...

You people make me sick at times with all your complaining. Every time I dig thru the forums I find people whining about this or that.. I'm thinking no matter what happens, you folks will always find something to complain about -- your lives must be miserable....

Right now is one of the best times our sport has ever seen... If you're unhappy now, you need to find something new. I have NO complaints, and your not whining.:D

[honda350r]

86atc250r if your e-start is giving you problems,you have other problems!

The problem with the 400ex starting system is the poor grounding system though the bolt on sub-frame! If you run a nice ground cable to the starter it self,I would bet your problems go away!!

I agree a back up system would be nice but most people would have liked a E-start 450R !!!

If a back up system is such a big deal, you can always buy the parts from an XR 400 and have both!!!!! It would have only taken me one DNF to realize I had to change to something !

Bottom line is USE YOUR HEAD!!!

[dhines]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Consider this - what do you do with your big bore, high compression engine when the electric start struggles? No upgrades are available. Mine struggles at times and my engine is only a 416 and is pretty mild on the compression.

Also consider this - I've been racing woods on my 400EX for 3 years now. There have been a number of times that I have had trouble with my electric start. With no backup system, I've lost anything from positions to the entire race - at those times you can bet I was cussing the e-start only.

I've also been beat off the line during a dead engine start more times than I care to count by people with kickers - and my 400 starts extremely easily compared to many.

For the last several years I've heard nothing but complaints about the electric start with no backup, about weight, about the 400ex being "low tech" and slow, about Honda not stepping up to the plate with supporting racers or giving us new models.

I've heard nothing but complaints when Cannondale gave us aluminum frames, efi, a real engine, etc...

You people make me sick at times with all your complaining. Every time I dig thru the forums I find people whining about this or that.. I'm thinking no matter what happens, you folks will always find something to complain about -- your lives must be miserable....

Right now is one of the best times our sport has ever seen... If you're unhappy now, you need to find something new.

Easy there, Trigger! Expressing disatisfaction with a product doesn't make someone a whiner. I prefer an electric start as I think kicking over a high-compression 4-stroke sucks rocks. I wish the 450R had one and the fact that it doesn't is enough to keep me from purchasing one.

Having said that, I'm very happy Honda finally got enough nuts to deliver a race-oriented machine. This is indeed a fantastic time for our sport. I'm just frankly a bit dissapointed in what Honda has delivered and will likely be riding blue next season - -whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine...

[honda350r]

Originally posted by dhines
Easy there, Trigger! Expressing disatisfaction with a product doesn't make someone a whiner. I prefer an electric start as I think kicking over a high-compression 4-stroke sucks rocks. I wish the 450R had one and the fact that it doesn't is enough to keep me from purchasing one


Wow my thought exactly !!

[Ryan]

From having a kickstart on my small 2-stroke engine, compared to my buddy's electric starters, I only perfered an eletric starter when it was very cold out or had a problem starting the engine. Otherwise, I perfered the kickstart.

As for woods racers............ I havn't seen Balance, Borich, Deresi, (ect) have trouble getting the holeshot. But to bad neither of these quads come with reverse.

[Chef]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
13:1 compression machines run a bigger more powerful battery. :confused2

Well then what do you suggest for 14:1...cause mines strugglin occasionally!:blah:

[Moto440]

Originally posted by seatec
man of all the dumb comments. an e-start isnt manly. what a stupid thing to say. now i can understand that you dont want it for the weight savings but i assure you that if your in the woods on a very steep hill stalled out you wish you had that button. Not manly!! hehe.


Could not have said it better myself.

[imac]

maybe this will clarify to those that don't race xc. Borich,Derisi,Ballance, all of those "top" guys are hauling arse and dont mess up ,get stuck to often, so they wouldn't be affected that much by not having e-start. For all of us also rans out there which is quite frankly most of us, when the going gets tough and conditions stink we wind up off of our quads and pushing them. The e-start is so handy compared to my old rx's where you would be jsut as concerned about not killing the engine when trying to get it unstuck as actually getting it unstuck. Lets take the millfield round of the gncc series as an example, can you say bottleneck! that first lap could not have been worse. Being able to hop off and start pushing ,pulling ,tiping up on side ,whatever, that e start is VERY nice. So basically if your not getting top 3 in your class consistently I think you would want the e-start. Oh and for those that say the decompression release works, well Im sure it does but I know back on my old 250x stroked to a 318 removing the decompression release turned into several holeshots in 4stk b back in 91. no holeshots with it operational. I think the honda will be a better xc quad but I will stay on my Z or buy a yfz just for the e-start myself.

[Pappy]

i think the e-start is whats gonna kill it in gncc or xc racing. hell i cant imagine digging out of a mudhole only to have to try and kick that mofo over.

i may very well sit back and see what other manufactures have to offer next year...and if honda will fix what i dont like about the trx450r.

[EvilEwok]

I dont really care, I have honda blood and I have been waiting for this quad for quite some time, I love the looks, the engine is amazing, and the suspension is interesting. Basic know how of a bike was put into this, and what people would want to expect from a honda. RELIABILITY, and the fact that you can run it off a cliff and it still have its axels, a arms, and the engine be running supremely. Id rather be just be kicking a hot engine with my hot start button pulled back rather than be trying to weave to one side of the bike since the frame was bent (cough cough suzuki) or having find some other transportation back to the finish line because your a arms colapsed after the last bottoming out(cough cough yamaha). And what I cant understand is why people that are on a devoted honda site are saying they will be buying yamahas, or suzukis, when they should be devoted to what they love. as for the reverse goes, **** it, I never use it anyway. Kick start, if you read it says Electronic Advance, that means that a spark is already set to ignite on the first kick, and it already has that decompression thingy so you can even kick while sitting down. If you have never ridden a crf then you have no room to talk about how hard it will be on a hot engine, because it is as easy kicking air. And if that doesnt work, the hot engine button will do very nicely.

[Pappy]

evilwok...you ever buried a thumper in 2 feet of mud...dug it out...then tried getting it started?

GNCC racing WILL find the weak spots;)

[honda350r]

All I can do is Hope that I am *****ing about nothing and hope it is a easy starting quad! I sold my 370 PV 89 250R to buy a new Honda.. I hated Kicking the 370 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pappy]

dont think im being one sided....

the yammy boyz will find out how weak that battery is in short order. cannondale had the same problem but was easily fixed with a bit stronger battery

[EvilEwok]

I burried my ford ranger in 2ft of mud in my back yard before :macho that was fun, and yes it will find weaknesses and every bike has weaknesses

[tazdevil27]

My mate has just found out the hard way that electric start is only as good as the pos battery you put in it.
Looked good with a couple of fella's pushin a brand new yfz down the road because the battery had shat itself 3rd ride out.
Bet he was wishing for a kicker.

Local dealer just told us Honda Australia is not going to bring the bike in because of the kickstart. Not sure why? Can't see it being a problem for us strong legged Aussies!!!

Looks like I keep spending money on the old 400.

[rowlrag]

Originally posted by EvilEwok
Kick start, if you read it says Electronic Advance, that means that a spark is already set to ignite on the first kick, and it already has that decompression thingy so you can even kick while sitting down.
Try some research on "Electronic Advance" and let us know what you find.

[dhines]

Originally posted by Ryan
From having a kickstart on my small 2-stroke engine, compared to my buddy's electric starters, I only perfered an eletric starter when it was very cold out or had a problem starting the engine. Otherwise, I perfered the kickstart.

As for woods racers............ I havn't seen Balance, Borich, Deresi, (ect) have trouble getting the holeshot. But to bad neither of these quads come with reverse.

WHen Balance, Borich, Deresi, etc are/were (many have gone to 4-strokes with electric starters) kicking over their machines they were 2-strokes. If this machine was a 2-stroke I wouldn't be complaining about it having a kickstart. It's those big 4-strokes that will absolutely wear your ***** out...

[660bigdaddy]

the yammy boyz will find out how weak that battery is in short order. cannondale had the same problem but was easily fixed with a bit stronger battery
pappy, do you have the cure for the yfz's weak battery?
btw,i think for xc racing, you need the button on a 4 stroke. jmo

[Bill Fuller]

Yes I have rode the CRF450 and it is a pain in the arse to start even with the hot start button.In my neck of the woods in the summer time it gets to be 95 degrees and 80% humidity,I dont care how big of a man you are it is not as easy to kick like air as stated before even after 2 kicks to start I am dripping with sweat,it's not only kicking but having to sit still....find neutral....get the piston to the top ....then kick.A big bore 4 stroke will humble even the strongest rider in the wrong conditions(mud,steep hills...etc).I have rode an electric start for the last 3 or so years and never suffered from it not once has it let me down(426,416) but my Sparks stroked and bored 250x would practically throw your tired ***** off when it would recoil.Nothing is worse than having to go back to the bottom of a hill to start a 4 stroke that is hot and tired!I love Honda I will own a new 450 but not until I'm sure there won't be an electric start.The yamaha is NOT even a thought in my mind,for those of you who want one go buy it join Bluetraxx while your at it and stop bashing Honda,I am not bashing Honda I am just stating that I would prefer a kick start.I said 2 or 3 months ago that this would be a kick start only 450 so I am not dissapointed in the release just curious to know what the 2 price tag crap was all about?

[norcalatver]

Myself and another friend of mine were going to buy the new Honda also until we heard it has no happy button! How can we convince our wives they need a new quad if they have to kickstart it! (both of have highly modified ex's and were buying them for the wives, he he ) I am extremely disappointed Honda didn't at least offer electric start as an option for the 90% of us who don't race but want an awesome machine to enjoy. I am glad I didn't sell my wife's 400EX yet!

[Lax]

First comes electric start, then comes auto race and auto preload. Play the sport with fun.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Chef
Well then what do you suggest for 14:1...cause mines strugglin occasionally!:blah:
:eek: A Battery Tender with the same battery, or a tow strap and a Rincon!:devil:

[EvilEwok]

-does not go look for electronic and says that he does-

[Bretmd94]

For ther people complaining about the woods riding...

i have owned 1 350x, and 3 200x's in my life. all mainly for woods riding. I actually left a 200x out in the woods because i was so pissed and tired of kicking it over. Went back the next day to get it. I still want the kick start.

But... In a XC race i can see how not having a button would suck. Maybe Honda will have an optional electric starter and battery you can buy.

[Evan]

Some people dont compare apples to apples- the crf motor is not your ancient 200x or 350x motor, its a whole new ball game. Like one guy said, I bet most of you have not ridden a crf-they are very easy to start and start 2nd kick most of the time-I found that the small percentage that they didnt start 2nd kick was due to low idle speed-turn the idle screw up a tad and it would fire right up(i dont like to touch the throttle when kick starting something) the crf motor kicks over as easy as a 250cc 2strk-i tried kicking over a yzf250 and nearly broke my leg-even with the decomp lever it was hard to kick over-i appreciated the honda then

I for one am kinda glad it has a kickstart in someways-yea im lazy and like to just hit the ole e-button but- with it having kickstart, it will keep people that dont belong on it off of it(kids, people that know nothing about quads, etc)which means less chance of a lawsuit or people getting hurt(honda covered their ***) IF you dont like it, dont buy it, dont whine about it(typical americans)-go to school and be a engineer for honda and make the quad like u want it

[dirtriderex]

:rolleyes:

[twisted threads]

Im in the same boat as norcalatver! How can I get the woman a new 450r when its a KICKstarter!! O well I guess she can have the EX:D
Haveing a E-start would be awsome and this is the ONLY thing I really don't like about the new Honda but its not going to keep me from getting one. I can see how you GNCC'ers would love to have a e-botton but Im not going to get a Yammi because the Honda has a kickstarter. BUT thats just me. I might wate a little longer and see what Honda is going to do about it but Its been such a LONG wate already I dont think I can wate any longer!

[Bretmd94]

Im going to totally agree with Evan. The kick start will keep a lot of young riders off of this quad. You would be suprised how many very young kids i see riding banshee's at the dunes. (yes i know its kick start too, but I can start a banshee with my hand):macho

[quad_quazy]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Consider this - what do you do with your big bore, high compression engine when the electric start struggles? No upgrades are available. Mine struggles at times and my engine is only a 416 and is pretty mild on the compression.

Also consider this - I've been racing woods on my 400EX for 3 years now. There have been a number of times that I have had trouble with my electric start. With no backup system, I've lost anything from positions to the entire race - at those times you can bet I was cussing the e-start only.

I've also been beat off the line during a dead engine start more times than I care to count by people with kickers - and my 400 starts extremely easily compared to many.

For the last several years I've heard nothing but complaints about the electric start with no backup, about weight, about the 400ex being "low tech" and slow, about Honda not stepping up to the plate with supporting racers or giving us new models.

I've heard nothing but complaints when Cannondale gave us aluminum frames, efi, a real engine, etc...

You people make me sick at times with all your complaining. Every time I dig thru the forums I find people whining about this or that.. I'm thinking no matter what happens, you folks will always find something to complain about -- your lives must be miserable....

Right now is one of the best times our sport has ever seen... If you're unhappy now, you need to find something new.

I have been racing a 440 with 11.1:1 compresion with a thumper racing stage I cam with no compresion release for two years and I haven't had a bit of problems with electric start, even on the coldest/hottest days. As far as loosing possitions I have done just the oposite. I have gained many positions when myself and a 250r or banshee got tangled in a corner and stalled. I was started and rolling before they could even get their kick start levers out. It happened to me this weekend at an arena cross in Amarillo. I race MX, arena-X, TT, and flat track. My only problem is that like all other 400exers, I'm under powered. I can beat raptors and most banshee's (depending on rider and setup) but a bone stock YFZ450R blew my (and everyone elses) doors off in all four moto's at an outdoor moto-X/TT a couple of weeks ago and even though I'm a fast smooth rider he had the power to stay ahead. So to contradict myself and to make an already long story short, I will live with the kick start to get the power but really like e-start. I can't wait to get my 450R and told my dealer to order the power up kit.

P.S. My user name say's it all

[quad_quazy]

Also it's a 2001 and it's the original factory battery that come in it and I've not had to do a thing. My quad is extremely reliable and that's what I love about Honda and what is convincing me to buy a 450R. It's also easy to maintain. The only DNF I've had with my 400 is I broke my frame above the front shock mount after coming up short on a big table top and that took 2 years of racing abuse to happen. That got fixed and gusseted and I'm back on the track, yeah.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Evan
I for one am kinda glad it has a kickstart in someways-yea im lazy and like to just hit the ole e-button but- with it having kickstart, it will keep people that dont belong on it off of it(kids, people that know nothing about quads, etc)which means less chance of a lawsuit or people getting hurt(honda covered their ***) IF you dont like it, dont buy it, dont whine about it(typical americans)-go to school and be a engineer for honda and make the quad like u want it

That really is a good point! I think you may be on to something with that.;)

Originally posted by Evan
Some people dont compare apples to apples- the crf motor is not your ancient 200x or 350x motor, its a whole new ball game. Like one guy said, I bet most of you have not ridden a crf-they are very easy to start and start 2nd kick most of the time-I found that the small percentage that they didnt start 2nd kick was due to low idle speed-turn the idle screw up a tad and it would fire right up(i dont like to touch the throttle when kick starting something) the crf motor kicks over as easy as a 250cc 2strk-i tried kicking over a yzf250 and nearly broke my leg-even with the decomp lever it was hard to kick over-i appreciated the honda then

I for one am kinda glad it has a kickstart in someways-yea im lazy and like to just hit the ole e-button but- with it having kickstart, it will keep people that dont belong on it off of it(kids, people that know nothing about quads, etc)which means less chance of a lawsuit or people getting hurt(honda covered their ***) IF you dont like it, dont buy it, dont whine about it(typical americans)-go to school and be a engineer for honda and make the quad like u want it

Well said....if you ain't man enough to start it....you ain't man enough to ride it. Personally...I have a lot of time on a CRF450... had one...and I NEVER had a problem starting it first or second kick. On the quad it will be easier because of the forward kick and you are already up higher on the machine.

Personally...I love it. The people who will really pay are the ones on the Yamahas who remove the junk electric starter on thier YFZ's because it is a PROVEN FACT that the yamaha 450's start WAY HARDER than a CRF450. :macho

Originally posted by HRC450R
Well said....if you ain't man enough to start it....you ain't man enough to ride it. Personally...I have a lot of time on a CRF450... had one...and I NEVER had a problem starting it first or second kick. On the quad it will be easier because of the forward kick and you are already up higher on the machine.



you can add to that, it has lower compression and a counter balancer....

I HAVE NEVER had a problem starting my R and i have run over 230 psi.

like evan said if you aint man enough, dont buy it. Hell I wouldnt want to even hear some panzy *** talkin about how, ohhhhhhhh it doesnt have electric start:rolleyes: I cant bear to think of using some of my own energy.

MAYBE you need to get in shape, then you might not complain!:eek2::p

[norcalatver]

Obviously none of you who don't care about electric start have ever stalled your quad while on a STEEP grade full of ruts. Here in California we have some serious hill climbing! The National hill shooting championships are held here in Carnegie, Ca. I've stalled my 400EX on some of these gnarly hills, and I'm very thankful Honda installed a happy button! Trying to kick start your quad while barely being able to keep it from either rolling down the hill or going over a cliff is NO FUN!!!! Its great Honda has come out with an ATV for the racers, now I will just be patient and wait for the ATV for the rest of us.

[quad_quazy]

I was talking to my dealer/sponcer and they went to the show in Vegas. They said that during the unveiling they rode a couple 450r's out did some donughts and shut them off for the speach. After the speach the guys kicked it over while siting on the seat with one kick. That works for me

They also took some good pics of Far's bike but I can't figure out how to post them. Someone let me know. His bike looks F-in' awsome

Originally posted by BeeeRock!
you can add to that, it has lower compression and a counter balancer....

Hey BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! :D

Long time no see buddy.

Send me your aim name and then you'll remember who I am. :macho

To add to your comment....with that low of a compression....if it has more HP than the YFZ...imagine the reliable potential of going up in compression some. :devil: I'm sure YOU get what I mean. Then if the YFZ guys "pump" thiers up....lol....they'll be real high in compression and won't be too durable while taxing the YamaStarters too....lmao.

[JTRtrx250r]

I like both ES and kick.....for me kick = reliability or less possible starting problems,...nothing worse then being soaked to the bone in the middle the woods, in the middle of winter ,while night riding....and having starting/battery problems.....

and yes...I have spent 20 mins digging a mud covered 350x outta the 2ft deep mud ....a bunch too haha,and I still would rather have a kicker,but thats just me;) :D

[Guy400]

It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. We can all come up with reasons why our preferred starting method is better in our mind. The problem is I think we're going by the exception and not the rule. It's not common you get stalled out on the side of a steep hill. It's not common you get stuck in 2ft. of thick mud. It's not common that your electric starter doesn't work. If any of these become the rule for you than you've either purchased the wrong quad for your terrain or you've got bigger mechanical issues. I wish the TRX did come with e-start but it's certainly not going to be a deciding factor in my possible purchase.

Originally posted by Guy400
It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. We can all come up with reasons why our preferred starting method is better in our mind. The problem is I think we're going by the exception and not the rule. It's not common you get stalled out on the side of a steep hill. It's not common you get stuck in 2ft. of thick mud. It's not common that your electric starter doesn't work. If any of these become the rule for you than you've either purchased the wrong quad for your terrain or you've got bigger mechanical issues. I wish the TRX did come with e-start but it's certainly not going to be a deciding factor in my possible purchase.

I agree...

What IS common is Yamaha starter problems on the Raptors and several YFZ's around here have had battery problems and a couple with start problems. I know one guy who got the kickstart on his YFZ and he took it off after a few rides because it was way harder starting than he imagined. This guy is used to kicking over his CRF450 too. :devil:

[Evan400ex]

I personally like the KICK. I used to have an 87' 250x and I miss having the kick start. My 400 is making me lazy just pushing a button.