TRX450R Specifications

[Admin]

Check out the Specifications Page and Honda Site Link!

TRX450R Specs (http://www.exriders.com/trx450r/index.html)

[trueblue450]

page looks good, i dont think the quad is as ugly as we all think, remember how we all thought the 400 looked wierd first, it kinda grows on yah!

[Nospowered400]

They ever state what the top speed was?

[remlapr]

Didn't Ben tell you the main page is only suppose to be updated twice a year max - and certainly never the day after major industry news comes out - j/k :blah:


Looks good, and since we're on the subject of updates - any news on when we can expect new shirts :D

[atl855]

just got back putting my deposit down on a new trx 450r

[ccole400EX]

Just a quick look at the specs it looks like Honda might be a little short of the Yamaha. I'm not a Yamaha fan they did built one heck of a quad. I have been waiting to see what Honda comes out with before i buy the new bread of quad.

What gets me is the weight they both are 350 pounds but the Yamaha has electric start and the Honda doesn't. If you buy the kick kit for the YZF you lose 15 pounds.

Then the shocks if you where in the market for a "RACE QUAD" the YZF would be better just look at the travel 9'1 front YZF to 8'4 TRX 10'1 YZF back 9'0 TRX.

Before you all start bashing i'm just saying even though the TRX is cheaper you would spend what you save on the TRX on a rear shock that gives you over 10 inches of travel just to get you up to par with the YZF.

I like the way the quad looks and i bet it will have very few problems. Thats the Honda way but i think the motor will have to really out do the YZF in order for me to choose the TRX over it.

[lil400exman]

but u gotta think man you see how many parts on the yfz break? i have seen a-arms (top) frame welds (near the front motor mount) all break so if its 5 lbs heavier then the yamaha who cares? i know this thing will last like 250r's! how many banshees do you see from 1988 or from 1989? blasters too? cause they arent built to last now the 250r is and still flying with these new quads!:mad: :grr:

[450bret350]

no pun intended, but when yamaha released the yfz they made a big deal about it being the lightest weight quickest accelerating quad with the highes power to weight distribution, and honda didn't really say anything.
that being said i think the 450r looks good, hopefully it will keep up with the yamaha, and remember they just gave numbers thats all, how the bike will perform is still not proven, i think its bad*****

[seatec]

Think huh!?!

Well, i have seen two lower a-arms bend which ive seen happen to numerous different brand quads before. am not gonna chalk that one up to bad engineering.

Top welds ALL break?? hmm my quad must've not gotten the memo then cause its doing just fine and that with a 6'4" 280lbs monster dude that loves to jump it. Stick with the facts Jack and dont Cry Wolf.

Sorry if i jumped into your Chilie here buddy. Dont want to offend you or anything.

The fact of the matter is that Yes, there will be some minor things wrong with the YFZ as will there be things wrong with the TRX450. I think in the end we will all agree that both quads will perform excellent. Wouldnt you agree?

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

Originally posted by seatec
The fact of the matter is that Yes, there will be some minor thign wrong wiht the YFZ as will the be things wrong with the TRX450. I think in the end we will all agree that bot quads will perform excellent. Wouldnt you agree?

i agree completely:D

[trueblue450]

im just glad somethign else is out there cuz i dont want 500 yfz racing eachother and that being the only competition!

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by seatec
SOrry if i jumped into your Chilie here buddy.

I love this quote, do you mind if I start using it?

[nky400]

I've been searching around on here and haven't seen what I'm looking for. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. What is the horsepower and top speed of this beast?

I think it looks cool too, unlike most people.

Thanks

[khen]

Originally posted by nky400
I've been searching around on here and haven't seen what I'm looking for. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. What is the horsepower and top speed of this beast?

I think it looks cool too, unlike most people.

Thanks

I think the initial rumblings were 43-46 HP at the crank but I'm not sure if there are official numbers yet.. I'll put my 450R on my dyno tonight and let you know..

J/K I was just wishful thinking, I don't have a dyno.

I think it's an awesome looking machine! At first I thought it was fugly but it grows on you like a wart. :)

[aroracer72]

okay, forst of all, 1 inch of travel wont make a difference, its how well the shocks are valved and constructed. And as for the horspower, im not shure, but thwe bike puts out like 47 at the rear wheel, so the quad will put out like 40 at rear wheel on the quad, all i know is that crf quads run 48 horses, and this will probably be a tiny detuned, so my guess 40, a little more than the yammaie, and the shocks will be better, no doubt about that, and as for the price, 400 dollars is a lot!!!!!!!...and honda has a better finance plan for new offroad vehicles, and with that 400, you could get a different combo of things, i would go with adding tires, nerfs, and a front bumper. And as for top speed, i bilieve, noo i know it will be faster than the yfz, cause ive ridden both dirtbike engines, and the honda is stronger, but dont be sooo glued to the very max speed, tell me, how many times do you actually hit the max speed on a race quad???....for me hardly ever, except for drag races on dirt roads, but this will most likely have more low end, and stronger mid, while the yfz will rely on revving, it will be fun to see which is faster in acceleration and top speed, but if your soo worried about top speed, just throw 2 teeth smaller in the back:devil: but i know honda, and they have better quality and construction, and concentrate more on reliability, performance, and overall versatility, while the yammie was just RACE RACE RACE in mind, with the honda RACE as a factor, but also the capability for the rider to tune it in to there desired needs, honda is just soo damn good!!!!!...yeah the 400ex is outdated, but it was the start of the 4 stroke sport quad revolution!!!...as was the 250r in the 2 stroke revolution...get the picture.............and as for the weight, it is the same weight, with .8 more gallons of fuel, prolly a stronger frame, and a little more here and there which will make it a serviver and front runner. And in case you guys havnt heard of this problem with the yammie, the lower a-arm snapps after jumping on it!!!!!...not little 10 foot jumps, but on like semi diffucult mx jumps!!!!...i dont know about you, but, that just scares me, and honda will never design something that will not satisfy every 1, my dad had a 400ex that was drove hard, and we fixed it all up, and it was the most fun and reliable quad ive ever rode or ever heard about, but it was slow, this is basically the dream quad, 250r geometry, and the HONDA motor which is proven better in quads than the yammie, just wait, it will get better and better, as the yamaha gets worse and worse.

WOW, thats a lot off typing!!!!!!......lol

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by atl855
just got back putting my deposit down on a new trx 450r

Really none of my business, but why would you put money down on a quad you know nothing about yet?

[aroracer72]

even though i bilieve that you wont be dissapointed one bit with the honda, he is right, you should always wait till you ride one, or have a friend that has ridden one, dont trust magazines until at least 6 monthas to a year after their first test on the quad, cause they are getting paid to say stuff, ive ridden the yfz, and was impressed, but it isnt a magic carpet!!!!!......and my rule before buying any new quad is, wait till i ride it, or wait tilla friend has ridden one, or wait almost about a year for an accurate and truthful test from the magazines, and ive found the less popular quad magazines to bullsh** less about new quads, dont trust dirtwheels, they are getting paid to say that stuff, and kory is getting paid to say its better than all other quads, including a cannondale racer, mostly lies, but never buy a quad without riding it first!!!!...and make shure you break it in correctly, especially a 4 stroke, other wise motor life will decrease dramatically, my suggestion, with aNY NEW QUAD, IS TO every night, idle it for 45 minutes, without revving, than after 5 days of that, idle for 45 minutes with occassional half to 3/4 throttle revs ever now and again, than, after 2 days of that, take it down a smooth street or dirt road, for 30 minutes, nommore than 3/4 throttle, than after that, let her rip!!!!

[TRX250R2nv]

I was waitin a long time for Honda to do something to replace my 88 250r and this is what I get. It's a glorified 400ex ( no insult intended but a 400ex is no R). I am very dissapointed. I was number 1 on the waiting list at my local dealer and now I cancelled my order. I went out and for the first time strayed from Honda and bought a real race quad. A 2002 C-Dale Cannible and let me tell you this 450R better be better than sliced bread to hang with the Dale.

I have no qualms with Honda I just think Honda really dropped the ball. No electric start thats anal.....

Thanks,
Jeremy

[aroracer72]

lol, electric start is for PUSSIES!!!!!!.......jeesh, buy a work quad, and its NOT a glorified 400ex...lol...you apparently know little about it...lol.......first off, it is a 250r GEOMETRY CHASSIS!!!!...and has a 48 horsepower motor!!!!!...with better rezzy shocks than the yammie!!!...so what part of that is a glorified 400ex??!!!!!!....jeesh/....and dont say im wrong, cause i have all the inside data, here is a comparible statement to yours for the yamaha.....this is what yamaha gives me to replace my 250r!!!!...shame, its a glorified warrior!!!!...thats what you sound like....your wrong...no offense

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by aroracer72
even though i bilieve that you wont be dissapointed one bit with the honda, he is right, you should always wait till you ride one, or have a friend that has ridden one, dont trust magazines until at least 6 monthas to a year after their first test on the quad, cause they are getting paid to say stuff, ive ridden the yfz, and was impressed, but it isnt a magic carpet!!!!!......and my rule before buying any new quad is, wait till i ride it, or wait tilla friend has ridden one, or wait almost about a year for an accurate and truthful test from the magazines, and ive found the less popular quad magazines to bullsh** less about new quads, dont trust dirtwheels, they are getting paid to say that stuff, and kory is getting paid to say its better than all other quads, including a cannondale racer, mostly lies, but never buy a quad without riding it first!!!!...and make shure you break it in correctly, especially a 4 stroke, other wise motor life will decrease dramatically, my suggestion, with aNY NEW QUAD, IS TO every night, idle it for 45 minutes, without revving, than after 5 days of that, idle for 45 minutes with occassional half to 3/4 throttle revs ever now and again, than, after 2 days of that, take it down a smooth street or dirt road, for 30 minutes, nommore than 3/4 throttle, than after that, let her rip!!!!

Not trying to flame you but idling your quad for 45 mins is the worst thing you could do to it.

[TRX250R2nv]

aroracer:

I am going off of what I have seen on Honda's web site and tha is not 250R geometry it is to short to be R geometry. and besides you are on the same team as I am. You ride a Dale also and should know that it will take one he!! of a bike from honda to beat out a dale in the power catagory. I am mearly saying that it is lame that it is a steal chassis and I don't think it is all that impressive. The motor is awesome but lets face it most of these things are not going to be raced anyway. They will be trail ridden or on the dunes ar playin around on a track. I for 1 will never own a quad that I have to Kick start again. Espically a four stroke and especially a Honda when it is below 50 degrees. I had a highly modded 250x with a 12.5:1 piston and it would nearly kill you when it was cold trying to get it started. and it wasn't just that one I have delt with many honda 4 strokes that are a b!tch to cold start. My point is that it should be like the Yammi ( and I dislike Yamadog's w/ a passion) and come w/ ele. start and if some one doesn't want it they can convert it over to kick for RACING. That is my point and besides is Cannondale the only manufacturer that thought Quads are just as important as bikes. They shure are the only ones that cared enough to give us ATVers some of that good 2wheeler technology in the ALUMINUM TWIN SPAR Chassis. That is the point I am trying to make. Not that the 450r is a P.O.S. just that it sucks that Honda can't get into the 21st century and give us some of the good high tech, When a bicycle company was able to do just that.
Quapiche!:cool:

[aroracer72]

ii didnt say these new quads were better than cannondales!!!!...lol.....while the stock yfz loses to a raptor, my stock speed set up with a 4 tooth larger rear sprocket like the moto(more acceleration, a lot less top end)....tied a raptor with a FULL YPSHIMURA pro comp exaust with the air box lid off, and with it with the full flow cap!!!!!....im keeping my dale, but i get intel, and its NOT too short to be a 250r geometry..lol...gemetry doesnt mean they are the same length!!!..that means they use the same arms, and stem and stuff...lol...like i said...you dont know a lot!!...lol...no offense.......but i do agree that our dales are faster stock, and put a full exaust on a dale, and a yfz, and the dale will win considerabally. But it DOES have 250r geometry, and our dales have the same goemetry as a 250r as weell!!!!!...jeesh....and this honda is better than the yamaha!!..but the dales in my oppinnion are still the best!!!

heres mydale

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p297e3b2e32877087cc72c8c24c010ec2/fb2f89da.jpg

[joeroadking]

Oh GOD some one bring back the c-dale !!!!man what they could have been with a few more years , no doubt they steped up way more than honda or any others for that matter the c-dale looks like a factory works bike right out of the box but but as they say thats the past . we should of all stepped up and bought one and kept them alive myself included !!!! :grr:
Sorry but I am so upset with honda I am not going to post anymore tonight, just too mad.:devil:

[TRX250R2nv]

I'm not going to argue with another Daler because we ultimatly love the same machine, however I can tell you from owning about 10 different R's and being into ATV's for about 20 years that I do know what I am talkin about. Geometry is not "just a-arms and stem and stuff". Geometry is the entire bike including the overall dimentions. It does include the angles (Eliptical arch) in which the a-arms travel it was not much to do with the stem but it does have alot to do with steering angles and cambers. it also has to do with the overall length of the machine including the swing arm length and suspension travel etc. As you can see I do know alot more than you seem to think you do! when you have built, worked and riden as many bikes as I have then you can come tell me how much I don't know till then I would watch who you tell that they don't know much. While you are in school tomarrow why don't you got to the library and take out a book on geometry and read it cover to cover then and only maybe then will you know enough to begrade some one you don't even know.

Got it Grasshopper.

[James70214]

No one even kows how much the 450 motor has been detuned. Everyone is saying like 48hp but that is just a guess. It really does seem like a glorified 400ex. You got a detuned 450 motor and some ressies on the shocks. Is there anything else so fantastic about the quad?

[aroracer72]

yeah, well i must not have clearly stated what i meant, what i meant is that length has nothing to do with the FRAME geometry, the sub frame and swing arm mainly determine that, and thoise ARE NOT included in the frame geometry, and if you have owned 20+ quads, you must have had some ****ty quads, cause one could should last a while, and owning quads doesnt make you smart!!!!....lol...the geometry is determined on the MAIN frame, not the sub frame and swing arm, and the new 450 DOES HAVE 250r geometry, it may have a litter shorter or longer length, but SAME main frame geometry as the 250r, i gueess i didnt clearly state myself. But your length having to do with geometry was just WRONG

on another note, i just found out that the cannondale motors cost 2000 dollars to make, with the average engine costing like 1200!!!!...they really made a swweet engine!!!....and the dale will out run any other new 4 stroke quad anyday!!!!!

[aroracer72]

yes, there is much more!!!...it has 250r geometry instead of 400ex geometry, it is 25 pounds lighter, and as for the horsepower, it will NOT be less than the yfz's, soo expect somethin like 36-46, prolly right around 40, and the shocks just dont have rezzies...lol...they are fully adjustable, and have a more advanced valving, HUGE difference!!!!.......and the 400ex has 26 horses stock!!!....20 horses more on this is not GLORIFIED, its like making the 400ex the most ricked out motor possible, soo the motor in this is WAY better, and as for the double carrier and crank bearings, tripple rings, and a bunch of other stuff, its not near a 400ex, its basically a dirtbike quad, detuned a tad, and without the ELKAS and stuff a racer has, its closer to a 250r than anything, than on the other hand, the 400ex isnt bad!!!,,,,all the things wrong with it is only the motor!!!!..and this has a better motor plus even better handling and suspension, aa huge step up!!!!

[Tommy 17]

it has rezzies... they just come off the back of the shock inside the scoops... not off the side like elkas;)

[aroracer72]

itt doesnt make a difference...smart ***:blah: LOL.....and the rezzies are very helpful towards handling, and the fully adjustnment capability iss HUGE difference over the stock 400ex NON adjustable, NON rezzy=ie shocks, and ohh yeah, these shocks have a more advanced valving and stuff like the yammies, everything just about made to compete with the yammie!!!!....and cannondale, but the dale will win in a modified or stock situation, you guys are just buying into the bribed magazine tests!!!

[Jnine]

I hate to burst your bubble, but your Cannondale DOES NOT come from 250R geometry although there are some similar areas. The original (and final) Cannondale design was based on the 400EX. Why? It was available from the factory, and I have the original coordinates from the CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) to prove it. After that, 6 frames were purchased from a dealer in Michigan for static and destructive testing (I bought them for the factory so it would remain a secret where they were going.) A little later into the project 6 aftermarket ARENS 250R frames were purchased and utilized as well to analyze their load carry capabilites since they had recently won a frame shootout. Ever seen a new aftermarket frame deliberately bolted down to a machine and then twisted back and forth for thousands of cycles until it gives up? It'll bring tears to your eyes!

In fact, all of the sport quads of today could in some way be related to the 250R, but that hardly means the entire design was derived from it. I'll give you an example. The LTZ has more in common with the 250R spindle than the 400EX does. The KPI on the LTZ is 8deg, just like the "R" while the EX is 12. There are numerous other dimensions that are similar on the CDale, and some that are very different. I should know, I designed part of it.

Anyway, there is no way you can claim that all Yamahas break a-arms, Suzukis break frames, or anything like that. The fact is, the YFZ, the LTZ, and I suspect the 450R are all VERY GOOD quads, but also they will all have flaws. I, for one, want to see how a cast aluminum subframe handles a cartwheeling crash. I bet it will be ugly and expensive! Lets face it, some guys ride like idiots, and shortly after the first 450R hits the local riding area somebody WILL break a part and then claim the entire design is faulty. That is far from the truth or the norm, and those kind of statements hardly help anyone, or even make sense. BTW, I do have some good news for you in that I suspect the CDale will be back since there have been a couple companies that are well financed and have bought the plans and parts. From my contact with the new owners, they intend to start building them again. I doubt I am involved however, but that's OK also. One more thing, I have the spread sheet and cost on every part Cannondale ever made, and the engine cost a little over $3600 to build. In the mean time, the YFZ, the LTZ, and most likely the 450R will all be good choices. None are perfect, but none have a fatal flaw.

[EvilEwok]

How can this bike be a glorified 400ex when the engine is derived from the CRF450R? And the chassis is a rendition of the 250r frame. I am pretty sure that they do have rezzies because if you look into the picture you can see some cylinder running off from sideways from the shock, it resembles a rezzie so I think it is actually, they conjured up some way to actually make it sit slanted into the subframe, ingenius.

[seatec]

ehhh, you never ever break a bike in by idling it that long. you warm it up and the make sure there is load n the piston and rings. thats how a cylinder breaks in. you cant break n a tranny eithe by letting it idle. jeez

[aroracer72]

okay, i guess you didnt find that it was a test, i wanted to see what the guy had to say that is buying one, and see if you guys knew also....LOL...well yeah, the CORRECt way is too break the motor in with little stress at first, than build up after time. I knew, i was just testing, you passed!!!!!

[edgerat]

chad,
:huh :eek2:

[heavy]

I want more info!! Dinos: stock and with aftermarket goodies. Its the only way to know for sure. Get numbers that are real and work from there. The TRX450R might start out slightly less that a yami but when you look at the dino the true stories are seen. A faster rapping motor also has unuseable top end! Bottom end and midrange is what a 4 stroke is all about! :D I like what I see. Good base to start from. Can't wait to get a closer look!!

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by Jnine
I hate to burst your bubble, but your Cannondale DOES NOT come from 250R geometry although there are some similar areas. The original (and final) Cannondale design was based on the 400EX. Why? It was available from the factory, and I have the original coordinates from the CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) to prove it. After that, 6 frames were purchased from a dealer in Michigan for static and destructive testing (I bought them for the factory so it would remain a secret where they were going.) A little later into the project 6 aftermarket ARENS 250R frames were purchased and utilized as well to analyze their load carry capabilites since they had recently won a frame shootout. Ever seen a new aftermarket frame deliberately bolted down to a machine and then twisted back and forth for thousands of cycles until it gives up? It'll bring tears to your eyes!

In fact, all of the sport quads of today could in some way be related to the 250R, but that hardly means the entire design was derived from it. I'll give you an example. The LTZ has more in common with the 250R spindle than the 400EX does. The KPI on the LTZ is 8deg, just like the "R" while the EX is 12. There are numerous other dimensions that are similar on the CDale, and some that are very different. I should know, I designed part of it.

Anyway, there is no way you can claim that all Yamahas break a-arms, Suzukis break frames, or anything like that. The fact is, the YFZ, the LTZ, and I suspect the 450R are all VERY GOOD quads, but also they will all have flaws. I, for one, want to see how a cast aluminum subframe handles a cartwheeling crash. I bet it will be ugly and expensive! Lets face it, some guys ride like idiots, and shortly after the first 450R hits the local riding area somebody WILL break a part and then claim the entire design is faulty. That is far from the truth or the norm, and those kind of statements hardly help anyone, or even make sense. BTW, I do have some good news for you in that I suspect the CDale will be back since there have been a couple companies that are well financed and have bought the plans and parts. From my contact with the new owners, they intend to start building them again. I doubt I am involved however, but that's OK also. One more thing, I have the spread sheet and cost on every part Cannondale ever made, and the engine cost a little over $3600 to build. In the mean time, the YFZ, the LTZ, and most likely the 450R will all be good choices. None are perfect, but none have a fatal flaw.

This post should be manditory reading for everyone on this site! Or maybe the whole quad world! Paraphasing ( No quad is perfect but none have a fatal flaw) Keep it in mind when talking trash about other peoples rides. It's all good!

[robby26wi]

I dont feel the Honda qoutes on Horsepower are correct...I dont believe that you can take away compression,carburation,crappier header and pipe,less camshaft,heavier piston with an additional ring and still come up with like only 7 horse less then the CRF...I love Honda but realistically i would bet it makes no more then 41 or so at the crank and maybe 38 or so at the rear tires....All that taking away has to add more then 7 horse...And as far as the aluminum subframe goes...I think it will crumble as aluminum only flexes a fraction of what mild steel or chromoly does....

[rtyfz450]

first off I am not gonna honda bash, I love honda's and I wished that I would have waited to see what the 450r offers. ok maybe not:rolleyes:
I just want to talk about reliabilty issues with the yfz 450 and the a-arm problem. I have beaten the crap out of my yfz and it just keeps going. I took it to St. anthony's sand dunes and jumped it over 25 feet high and about 125 long I have pictures if no one believes me! no problems with a-arms. I even have started racing and everything on it has held up pretty well. I have inspected the frame to find no cracking or stressing, I am a welder and I know how to properly spot problem areas. I even ate it big time at the track last weekend when I hit a table sideways and dropped off to the side on one side. meaning all stress and wieght came down on the one single a-arm, agian no problem. And the suspension kept me on the bike I would trust it any day. the only thing that has happend to the bike is that the plastic turns white after stress.( I have the blue one) the same thing happened to my friend's 2002 banshee. anyway I am sure you guys could careless just don't go bashing something until you have the facts or have actually ridden a bike.
And for those who says the 450r is just a regurgitated 400ex you are lame. Just looking at the bike I seriously doubt it but don't come to a conclusion before you have time to actually see one in action. As for suspension no one knows the exact vavling and how well it works so don't go saying it is better than the yfz until you have seen or ridden it. C-dale riders you have got to give it a rest the quad is dead! it was cool and c-dale put a good effort into it but they missed their target and I can easliy keep up and pass a c-dale on my yfz in any type of riding. Yes a pro rider would destroy me on a c-dale but equal riders the yfz is a better machine I have seen it. sorry accept it or not you are gonna get worked by a yfz sometime soon in the dunes or on the track.
As for the 450r it looks cool but I forsee some minor problems in comparision to the YFZ. the weight on the yfz is better when you take the battery and starter off and take the pipe off and bam 25-32 pound reduction and advantage. the carb on the 450r is butterfly- not good, the a-arm design is antiquated, the engine is not even close to superior yamaha tech. compare five valve titantium to 4 valve steel. look at the compression yamaha 11.9:1. I just don't see these things looking good for honda but we will have to wait and see. NOt to say that Tim Farr is not going to dominate on this bike because he will and it's gonna be sweet. But for the money that you will have to put into the honda to get it the the preformance of the yamaha I am glad that I bought blue.And people please don't tell me that one inch of travel doesn't make a difference because it does it coul dmean the difference in bottoming and bouncing out of control or coming out of the jump for what is next. please bash all you want thank you sorry for the long post but I had to get it all out.

[aroracer72]

ii raced a new yfz at the silver lake sand dunes....i won!!!...and the only thing worse on a dale than the yfz, is the front shocks, well, im talking about the moddles that came with ohlins before they switched to fox shoxks, and the dale will SMOKE a yfz, cause ive done itz!!!!!!!!

and, yeah edgert, this is chad.....who is this????

[seatec]

Im with you rtyfz450. I think that most people with a brain will agree with you on this. The fact of the matter is that only time will tell and in the man time half ***** opinions with nor real frame of referance or fact and substance will be lfung back and forth.


I too love honda and my CRF450 which is absolutely awesome but i just dont understand why they detuned? emmisons laws or other BS regulations maybe? i am sure they had their reason and im also sure that they didnt just birng out a POS quad. Thats not their style at all but i do question some of their decisison.

Again, only time and testing will tell.

[Pappy]

maybe im just a nutball....but i am loving the fact i can use existing parts on the new trx. and 400ex owners should like the fact that alot of the parts maybe a direct swap. sure will be nice to get dual piston front calipers without having to rig up 250r calipers.

[XANDADA]

Originally posted by Jnine
I hate to burst your bubble......etc
Interesting Info...

Man Jnine, Mickey D, Jeff, others I forgot. - sure am glad peeps like you frequent this site, offer knowledge based info and have the guts to post how they see it. keep it comming....;)

Originally posted by rtyfz450
first off I am not gonna honda bash, I love honda's and I wished that I would have waited to see what the 450r offers. ok maybe not:rolleyes:
I just want to talk about reliabilty issues with the yfz 450 and the a-arm problem. I have beaten the crap out of my yfz and it just keeps going. I took it to St. anthony's sand dunes and jumped it over 25 feet high and about 125 long I have pictures if no one believes me!


Pics please:D

[rtyfz450]

Originally posted by aroracer72
ii raced a new yfz at the silver lake sand dunes....i won!!!...and the only thing worse on a dale than the yfz, is the front shocks, well, im talking about the moddles that came with ohlins before they switched to fox shoxks, and the dale will SMOKE a yfz, cause ive done itz!!!!!!!!

and, yeah edgert, this is chad.....who is this????

ok what kind of dale vs the yfz and what did the yfz have on it the stock exhuast with the pee shooter still in it. and who did you race, was it experience that won you the race or was it the ability of the bike? straight drag or other? because I have raced dales cannibal, speed and moto and they all lost. they were good or average riders and my bike is by no means moded out. I am sorry but I really liked the design of the c-dale but it also has some flaws and it is not perfect. I have actuallly talked to people and some problems are fuel pump dying, ignition dead, cracking in the frame, mapping problems. I am not saying that the yfz is perfect either but on every occasion I did not loose to the Dales. and atleast beat them buy bike lenght. i am talking drag race on dirt and sand. I pull from the hole and stay ahead. Plus you have got to consider the price or a moto to the yfz. I put some nerfs and a couple of mods that would make it on par with the moto and I still would have to spend 4500 to equal the cost of a moto I have not been able to race a c-dale on a track but wish that I can. race this weekend will maybe see how I compare to one on the track and I will update you on the results.

[seatec]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I love this quote, do you mind if I start using it?


By all means start using it. I stole it too from somebody years ago.

[rtyfz450]

here are the picts

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/338206/bigjump1itvs.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/338206/bigjump2itvs.JPG http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/338206/longjump1itvs.JPG

my girlfriend takes the pics not some pro photographer so if you look at this and pull out a measuring device it might not be exact but I measured all lenghts and 124 was as far as I went.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by aroracer72
....and the dale will out run any other new 4 stroke quad anyday!!!!! [/B]

NOT MINE, I eat Dales up all day long!!

:macho

Chad502EX.com

[Steven]

Don't get me wrong here... I love Honda.

I have a Honda car, lawn mower, pressure washer and TRX440EX that is sweet.

I also own a Yamaha YFZ450S with just a pipe and it is STUPID fast. Its faster and better handleing and feeling than anything I've ever ridden... and I've ridden alot of quads.

It would appear Honda fell short of the mark here. We'll have to wait for the comparison tests.

Damn shame.

Steve

[Steven]

Gosh, taking a harder look...

Where is the FCR carb?
10.5:1 compression???
SOHC engiine?
No electric start and same wieght as YFZ450?

I love Honda but Geeeezzzz!

Get competative.

I've read all the posts on this thread and the only thing I see that is out right incorrect are the coments on the Honda and Yamaha engine. Hang around the racing scene and talk to the hottest engine builders and all will tell you the same thing. The CRF motor in its best state of tune won't hold water against the YFZ engine in its best state of tune. PERIOD.

Honda's only chance here was with the handleing and weight outcomes of the new quad.

Doesn't look good for the Honda on paper. We'll see...

Steve.

[VIC]

Does anyone know when honda started developing the 450R?

[robby26wi]

do u guys understand what the Honda unicam is at all??? dual overhead cams and the yfz head dont have much compared to the Honda head...Less weight and less rotating mass=more horsepower and quicker revs....and as far as the yfz-yzf-wr head being revolutionary it isnt as Yamaha had the 5 valve head out since like 1986...just my 2 pennies

[EvilEwok]

I think that yamaha has actually lied about that weight, because I have talked to the dealership guy today and he said that they weighed a yfz the other day and it weighed just a little over 369lb

[robby26wi]

That may be wet and i am sure there specs are dry..

[EvilEwok]

Nope, the had just uncrated it and their technicians had the extra time to place it on the weight balance, it was Dry

[seatec]

comming from you it must be true then. we all know that dealers always tell the truth

[EvilEwok]

no reason to get touchy, and I never made you believe me, thats just what ive heard, and I saw the yfz that they had weighed today, when at the time it was wet, but this was a week or so back that they had gotten this, its a rumor, nothing more

[EvilEwok]

and wouldnt you think that a dealership selling you the bike would want to make things better instead of worse to make an easy sale? correct me if im wrong but I dont think ive ever heard a sales man go up to anyone and say want to buy a heavy peice of ****? and the buyer saying just what ive been looking for

[aroracer72]

lol, okay, the yfz beat me off the line, he had paddles, i didnt, the sand was wet (rain), he looked like a expert (was jumping pretty big), it had the little stinger cap, mine had 4 teeth bigger in the back (moto gearing), but i had cannibal pipe and mapping, and after i got going i steadily was gaining on im, than we ran out of room. And as for the dale probs, yeah, they do, but thats cause , well some have those probs, but ive never heard of dale probs after getting the updates done to them, and those are better than the aarms breaking, or tanny going on you like the new yfz, and as for you putting nerfs, and like few little things, it wouldnt be near a moto!!!!!!!!....first of all, the moto has a LT front end, with fricking tripple rate OHLINS!!!..the yfz cant come close, and the moto had beed locks, nerfs, steering stem, kill switch, fat bars, everything!!!!!...it would cost 1200 to just build a moto out of a yfz, and as for the dale prices, yeah, they use to be highly priced, but now you can get them new for 4500 shipped to your door!!!!...!!!!!!.....!!!!!!!...and the dale wont snap an arm or tranny wont go in a dale, but first year yamahas always are ****ty!!!!...okay, not ****ty, but have defects!!!

[rtyfz450]

aroracer72,
yeah I agree with you on the Dal about some things especially the price now but I have to say that I have all the things that a moto has and I have yet to spend a grand except for the steering stem. I just don't want it the stock is fine until the time when I break it ;) . anyway nerfs cost me 130, the kill switch was 30, the bars were 45, the new rims and tires were 130. I don't want beadlocks because I just don't care and I think they are way over priced. I would rather bend a 33.99 rim (.190 douglas) then trash a 110 dollar rim. the most expensive thing was the exhaust from Curtis Sparks and I would not say that I need that to compete with a moto because I beat one without it. I think that I have proven that not all arms bend and I am quite comfortable with mine. C-Dale=great quad but I have it beat for a lot less then the qiad when they were in business which is when most people bought theirs. I don't think that alot of people are buying them now. as for shocks you got me on that one. but I don't like ohlins at all and I think that the yfz is competitive without them. I would much rather have pep or tcs long travel then invest the money in a quad with ohlins. just my thinking, doesn't mean that it is correct anyway differnet strokes for differnet folks and all that bs. what matters is we are riding anyway.:devil:

[aroracer72]

k, you still dont have a moto, lol, the stock yfz isnt close to a moto, and just cause your all, i dont need a steering stem and stuff, doesnt make your yfz a moto...LOL...and your stock arms and shocks cant touch a motos front end!!!!!!.....and a moto is wider than the yfz, has a stronger axle, and ive NEVER meet anyone or heard of any 1 smashing a beed lock, soo your not close to a mot just cause you THINK you dont need those items....lol....you people ...jeesh

[aroracer72]

cool pics, but just cause your yfz isnt having probs, doesnt mean the rest arnt, or a hand ful of the others arnt, you just have one that doesnt have any of the probs..........yet...............

[TGW_400ex]

I have a 400ex and it doesnt have much on it and i beat a C-Dale speed in a paved drag and I know u guys r gonna say sumthin about mapping but lets see here a 400ex is 5600 and a speed is in the 7000 area? he also told me he has bottomed his shocks on jumps ive jumped and havent bottomed. He could be full of s*** but i thought i should bring this up and the moto better eat a yfz i heard they were 11500 when they were made!:confused:

[aroracer72]

yeap, thats before the bancruptcy, now, you can get a moto for 4500 new!!!!...i think thats better than a yfz has to offer for 7500....and as for your 400ex beating the dale, is he a fat *** or something, i race lots of quads yesterday at silver lake, and NO 400ex's were beating me, even when they had paddles and i didnt!!!!!!.....i was even gaining ground on a yfz with paddles when i was running speed set up!!....so that guy is either a fat ***, or a unskilled person..lol..jeesh, a 400ex has 16 less horse power than a daLE STOCK, ohhh well, all i know is that those list prices on dales are no longer accountable, you can get them a LOT cheaper now.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by aroracer72
yeap, thats before the bancruptcy, now, you can get a moto for 4500 new!!!!...i think thats better than a yfz has to offer for 7500....and as for your 400ex beating the dale, is he a fat *** or something, i race lots of quads yesterday at silver lake, and NO 400ex's were beating me, even when they had paddles and i didnt!!!!!!.....i was even gaining ground on a yfz with paddles when i was running speed set up!!....so that guy is either a fat ***, or a unskilled person..lol..jeesh, a 400ex has 16 less horse power than a daLE STOCK, ohhh well, all i know is that those list prices on dales are no longer accountable, you can get them a LOT cheaper now.

aroracer, Would you mind quit trying to pump up your moto as much as you have been over the last several posts? Quite frankly I think the majority of the vistors here (with a couple of exceptions) are HONDA fans (either 400 or 450R) and don't give as shiznit about your obselete moto. If you think your moto is sooo great, wanta line up to the 502? BTW, just playing with you, but common- give us a break.....

:D

Chad502EX.com

[wired2]

You sound like every yamaha will end up with broken A-arms, but how many documented cases have you seen? Oh yeah, I've seen plenty of broken Honda spindles from jumping as well, and that is just as scary!!!!!

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by aroracer72
yeap, thats before the bancruptcy, now, you can get a moto for 4500 new!!!!...i think thats better than a yfz has to offer for 7500....and as for your 400ex beating the dale, is he a fat *** or something, i race lots of quads yesterday at silver lake, and NO 400ex's were beating me, even when they had paddles and i didnt!!!!!!.....i was even gaining ground on a yfz with paddles when i was running speed set up!!....so that guy is either a fat ***, or a unskilled person..lol..jeesh, a 400ex has 16 less horse power than a daLE STOCK, ohhh well, all i know is that those list prices on dales are no longer accountable, you can get them a LOT cheaper now.

Hes not a fatass but he isnt that skilled:p but anyone can push the gas in a drag race and the only reason they r so cheap is cuz they went bankrupt if they start to make them again the prices will go back up to 7 grand:p

[AndrewRRR]

As much as I love Honda I have to say I'm dissapointed. We waited this long for THAT???
Maybe it will be great when they actually come out, but I have a feeling if I buy a new quad soon it's going to be the Yamaha.
I have enough forward kicking with my 350r, if it's a 4 stroke it's gotta be electric. What's with the suspension travel? And the plastic looks like a 250r ran into a pair of headlights at high speed.
I'll be surprised if the Honda can beat the Yamaha when the test rides start comming out (I hope it does, but i'll be surprised).

[EvilEwok]

There is an article in dirtwheels about them taking off the 14lb exaust system and putting on a lighter FMF Titanium spark aressted unit, ill type it for you.

"The next important list of numbers are the weights of each machine. Yamaha's 450 is the lightweight of the bunch coming in at just under 350 pounds. Remember, we removed that 14 pound muffler. Our fully equipped Wiseco z400 tip the scale at 375 pounds and the predator pegs the needle at a portly 415."

=)

[EvilEwok]

Found another thing about the yfz

"Yamaha built a rocket engine from the start. Throw away the stock muffler and start the countdown. We suffered our first problem with the yfz during this test when the battery failed at the dunes. A stock replacement was brought in and is holding up fine so far. You might want to look into the kick starter option; we are."

Oh my...whats this? Honda on the right track?

[seatec]

Man you make me want to sell my junk yfz, NOT!!!

[EvilEwok]

PEER PRESSURE!!!!!!

And im not saying its junk, im just loyal lol. If the trx wasnt coming out I would have gotten a yfz yesterday when I was at the dealership looking at one.

[seatec]

hehe you crackme up evil. you like to stir the pot dnt you. its bed time for me. talk to you later.

[EvilEwok]

I love you too, goodnight

[Jnine]

Yeah, the Cannondale has everything you could want except for 1 minor thing.... A dealership that will be there in the future.

[aroracer72]

hehe, sorry about talking all about my dale, i got it caUSE I LIKE THEM, AND I GOT A STEAL ON IT<------damn caps lock!!!!..lol...anyway, they do have a dealer there for the future, ATK now has bought them out and will be making motor parts, and everything that the factory did when it was in buisness, im telling you, a cannondale is a steal at this point, if you can afford another quad with your new yfz or trx, the cannondale should be sharing living quarters, its just an awesome quad, okay, enough about cannondales...:blah: lol, i dont care whether the yfz is faster or not, there still both nice quad, and some 1 else on exriders.com said that they think we all arnt impressed with the new honda, cause its almost exactly like the yamaha, so we werent shocked the second time around when honda released their quad, he had a great point, still, in any case, they are both nice!!!:) damnit, get off your computer and go riding!!!!..who cares what you got, just enjoy what you have!!!...have fun riding guys, and stay true to ATV's!!!! :muscle: man, if you were to way the number of posts about the new honda on exriders, it would be a lot!!!!!

[DirtDiggler]

My .02,


If you compare dollar for dollar with the Honda being $400 cheaper. You could by the Honda performance kit for $300 and a 12:1 piston like the dirtbike for under a $100 and you would have spent the same amount as YFZ msrp and have more performance.

Diggler

[robby26wi]

The carb still will be a big pile o sheot tho....

[EvilEwok]

whats so bad about the carb? 42mm against a 39 (yamaha)

[BROKENBONZ250EX]

Lets not forget which Engine has more cc's, not to mention the fact that the YFZ stock, is a poor suffocated beast, while, i doubt the 450R will have to go through that to get a green sticker....

[Steven]

the 39mm carb on the yfz is far superior to the 42mm on the TRX. the yamaha is outfited with an fcr carb which is designed for racing and is slide equiped.

the kick start is the way to go on both bikes. i think that the point trying to be made is that the yfz will be 325 lbs with an after market exhaust, kick start, and head lights removed.

320 lbs and 49 wheel hp with just an exhaust, cam mod, and rejet... you do the math. this bike will fly!

check out GTthunder.com and look at the yfz pulls. stock is 35 hp at the wheels. with $250 worth of mods they achieved 49 hp at the wheels. that is crazy at 325 lbs!

I still love Honda but we will see that this one fell short of the mark

[aroracer72]

umm..sorry to burst your bubble, but the yfz does not weigh 350, that is a lie, just to sell it, it really weighs in the mid 360's, and the honda is ACTUALLY 350, so the yfz ISNT lighter, and a pipe and cam cost more than 250$!!!!!!!

[Steven]

My pipe cost $209 and advancing my exhaust cam 1 tooth was free. I already had the jets...

Right, 360's with fluids.

Big reputable companies don't lie about measurable specs. It would be a mute effort.

No bubbles burst, I don't take this stuff personal.

I'm just stating my findings...

Steve;)

[EvilEwok]

You do know that it will be hitting mid 40s correct? Because in stock form the crf450 engine was already hitting....was it high 40s? yea 48-52hp at wheel. So with a downed compression it will just be at the nick of mid 40, 40hp at 350lb is jesus christ crazy fast. And you get that nice package for 299 that will put your power output up by 15 percent. So yes, honda, is, not, a, dissapointment. =) btw, the 42mm carb wont be that much lower compared to the 39, and the sohc that does the same power output as a dohc. Honda has got this in the bag

LJröñ †?

[cgmxer115]

anybody have any pics of the airbox yet????????

[400exr]

Originally posted by robby26wi
do u guys understand what the Honda unicam is at all??? dual overhead cams and the yfz head dont have much compared to the Honda head...Less weight and less rotating mass=more horsepower and quicker revs....and as far as the yfz-yzf-wr head being revolutionary it isnt as Yamaha had the 5 valve head out since like 1986...just my 2 pennies

Right on man! ;) and as for the looks, as long as the back looks good thats all I need, because thats what everyone will be seeing :devil:

[joe1l]

I'm suprised nobody has brought up the fact that the 450r is exactly 450cc's as compared to the 439 on the yfz!! Don't the racers have to be under 440 to be race legal? :confused: Does this mean you would need to resleave the cylinder and put a smaller bore piston in it?

[EvilEwok]

Wrong, go watch the honda video where they announce and talk about the 450. The gncc cc limit has been raised, and plus, Red Riders? Tim Farr? Ring a bell?

[DirtDiggler]

10 cc's doesn't buy you much especially with much lower compression.


Tim Farr is racing pro production which has a 450cc limit. As far as I know the regular pro class with all the aftermarket quads still has a limit of 440cc's.

[cgmxer115]

Originally posted by joe1l
I'm suprised nobody has brought up the fact that the 450r is exactly 450cc's as compared to the 439 on the yfz!! Don't the racers have to be under 440 to be race legal? :confused: Does this mean you would need to resleave the cylinder and put a smaller bore piston in it?
The 250 PRO class has 4 stroke limit of 440, but the PRO-PRODUCTION class has a limit of 450 , Thats why Tim stopped racing the the pro class this year and pushed the pro-production class. Watch how fast that 250 Pro class dies out and everybody jumps in the new class, This is where the $ and recognition will be!

[joe1l]

I don't know much about the racing scene, except for what i read on occasion, but I also wonder, now that Honda is backing a team (Tim Farr) and so is Suzuki (Doug Gust), does this mean I will actually get to see the races on TV???

Hey CG, where in NJ are you from, I live in Morris county, what and where do you ride?

[Merriman]

Originally posted by aroracer72
umm..sorry to burst your bubble, but the yfz does not weigh 350, that is a lie, just to sell it, it really weighs in the mid 360's, and the honda is ACTUALLY 350, so the yfz ISNT lighter, and a pipe and cam cost more than 250$!!!!!!!

So how do YOU know that the TRX450R IS 350lbs? How many have you weighed already? What if Honda also "lied" to sell it like you say yamaha did? And how many Yamaha's have you weighed to claim this mid 360's garbage? I'm just curious to facts when I get "my bubble bursted":huh

When I get my YFZ 450 completely built for mx racing, I am going to take it down to a certified truck scale, and have it weighed "wet" meaning full tank of gas, and all the fluids. Then we all shall see what a competition YFZ will roughly wiegh.:o

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by Merriman
So how do YOU know that the TRX450R IS 350lbs? How many have you weighed already? What if Honda also "lied" to sell it like you say yamaha did? And how many Yamaha's have you weighed to claim this mid 360's garbage? I'm just curious to facts when I get "my bubble bursted":huh

When I get my YFZ 450 completely built for mx racing, I am going to take it down to a certified truck scale, and have it weighed "wet" meaning full tank of gas, and all the fluids. Then we all shall see what a competition YFZ will roughly wiegh.:o

That would be great if you can get it wieghed but can I suggest you find someone with a certified pallet scale. You will get a much more accurate wieght.

[Merriman]

Well on the military base that I work at, they have a scale that's certified to 1/10 of a pound for cargo purpose's. So that's the scale I'll be using.....And that will be close enough.:ermm:

[Guy400]

Chef already weighed a stock YFZ with no fluids at all and had e-start and the battery. On the scale at the track he races at it weighed 380lbs.

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by Merriman
Well on the military base that I work at, they have a scale that's certified to 1/10 of a pound for cargo purpose's. So that's the scale I'll be using.....And that will be close enough.:ermm:

No need to get snotty:( I own several facilities with certified truck scales and they are not certified to 1/10 of a pound it's + - 20#s and that is on the day of certification. If you are using a cargo scale for aircraft that is different.

[cgmxer115]

Originally posted by joe1l
I don't know much about the racing scene, except for what i read on occasion, but I also wonder, now that Honda is backing a team (Tim Farr) and so is Suzuki (Doug Gust), does this mean I will actually get to see the races on TV???

Hey CG, where in NJ are you from, I live in Morris county, what and where do you ride?
The way i look at it is this.... If you race the nationals allready then you allready know Who Tim is, and what he rides. If honda is going to promote themselves they need to do it to the people who DONT go to the races (home watching TV) the factories play a very big part of the fact that 2 wheelers are on TV. I think its a good chance we will be watching it next year. Check out my web site below.

[Merriman]

Sorry, wasn't trying to be "snotty" I'm not to good at relaying moods, and emotions though text.......I was just letting you know how I'm going to weigh it. I use the term truck scale because most people understand that. If I gave the military abbreviation for it most would think I'm retarded:p

Sorry for the miscommunication.....or emotication? whatever

[oldsandman]

Don't worry about it!;) Your right it is hard to determine emotion. I should have known better.

[aroracer72]

now give each other a hug, and apologize, and i dont care what scale it is, as long as it measures smaller items, within like a capacity of 200 to 500 pd scale, if it is like a large cargo scale, it will be off, but those military scales will work great, as long as it is the right scale for the weight.

[TGW_400ex]

If it weighs more than 350 dry you could like sue for false advertisement :p

[Steven]

DIRT WHEELS MAGAZINE (OCTOBER 2003): WIDE OPEN COLUMN

"The problem is, try as they might, they (Honda) can't find any extra power. About all they can do is TRY to stay even with the YZF dirt bike motor. That leads one to believe about the best they can do is tie the Yamaha motor and not beat it. They simply don't have any extra horsepower to draw from. If they did, the bike guys would already have it and they don't."

"Unless Honda comes out with a major breakthrough in the motor department, the best they can hope for is a tie game."


...unfortunately Honda didn't break through they detuned for the quad and made the ATV motor with less compression than thier dirtbike motor, no FCR carb like thier dirtbike motor, and no titanium valves like thier dirtbike motor.

How can we expect this motor to out do the YFZ450s, if it is less of a motor than the one in thier dirt bike???

Again, I love Honda but really... how can this TRX beat the YZF?

Steve

[aroracer72]

we cant, but even if the honda isnt faster, why is the dirtbike more popular than the yamaha?????......for one GREAt reason, usable, and appliable power. Yeah the yfz will prolly beat the honda on a straight drag, but how often you do that on a MX track???....(never), and yamaha has always had problems with getting traction in there quads, either they wheelie on you, or spin the tires, on the other hand, my dads stock ex with him on it (100pds heavier than I), would get a pretty big jump on me when i rode my friends raptor, yeah the raptor will beat it in a straight, but in like a length of a MX straight, the ex will beat it. So more power doesnt mean squat unless its usable, thats were the honda will beat the yfz, and if the honda ties the yfz in speed, than with its more usable power, it will be better, not faster, but more usable, i think yamahas always goo for the most speed or power, and dont worry a whole lot about USABLE or traction, ii rode a raptor, and couldnt use the power cause it wheelies all over the fricking place, now onthe other hand, a 400ex gets GREAT traction, and is always spry, i bilieve it will be the same for these, yfz faster, but the honda being ore usable, honda looks at the big picture, while yamaha stares at the won that says MAX SPEED, we shall see though, it will be cool to see 2 quads battle, soo, in the end, well just have to wait.

on another note, this past weekend i went to race my dirtbike, and all i saw were crf450 dirtbikes, and maybe 5 yzf450's, if the yfz is "so much faster", than why are people flocking to honda???...you determine that.

[Guy400]

I'm not going to get overly concerned with drag race results between these two motors. I'm also not concerned with the CRF powerplant being at its peak right from the factory. ANY motor can have more power squeezed out of it, period. You mean to tell me that Kevin Windham's CRF450 doesn't make any more power than a stock bike off the showroom floor? If that's the case it's pretty impressive that he just beat Carmichael on a works CR250.

aroracer, concerning your Raptor drag race results. Something is seriously wrong. I had a Raptor and my cousin had a 400EX. I was all stock and he was running a HMF slip-on with a K&N and we're both within about 5lbs. of each other in body weight. I beat him each and every time pretty handily. I would have about 1/2 a quad on him in 2nd but then shifting into 3rd and above I'd just walk away at a good pace. By the time we were in 5th gear pinned I'd have him by a good 6 bikes and still walking away. There's no way your father, who's 100lbs. heavier than you, on a EX should get the jump on you on a Raptor. Either you can't launch it properly, the Raps tires are bald or the Rap has some serious mechanical issues. I don't defend the Raptor in too many areas but what I can say is that it's got some straightline balls.

[Flip)(stick]

you guys r relying on the bike more than the skill of the rider..

[EvilEwok]

you all need to eat cheerios :> they are damn good

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Steven

How can we expect this motor to out do the YFZ450s, if it is less of a motor than the one in thier dirt bike???

Again, I love Honda but really... how can this TRX beat the YZF?

Steve

I agree. I was really exited about the TRX until I looked over the specs. So much for one-upping Yamaha.
I don't suppose any of the quad mags will get a test ride before the hondas go on sale in January? I'd like to see a comparison but I have a feeling we already know what the outcome will be. On the bright side both of these quads are probably much better than all the other modern ones out there (stock against stock of course)!

[TheChknhwk]

I just read this whole dam thread only to reach the end and ask myself, "why"? The only thing I should have read was Jnine's post. I must be crabby:p

[aroracer72]

hey, TheChckHawk, i think ive seen you at the dunes, silver lake, have you ever seen a Klotz 250r or a Nacs Cannondale out there??????
P.S
i looked at your signature pics, thats why im asking

[a1965gt]

I dont understand why everyone is crying....
All I heard 6 mo. ago was when I honda going to build a quad with a CRF motor, now we have it and everybody compains????
As for the frame, the 250R/400EX frame has been the blueprint for most other sport quads so what is everyone expecting... some radical new design????
I cant wait for the magizines to start testing them and find out how good it really is, then watch everyone jump back on the Honda band wagon.
If the 450R came out before the YZF it would have been gods gift to quading but since it came out second and is basicly Hondas version of the YZF (minus electric start) everyone is complaining.
Ill bet that it handels better than the YZF, and even if it "MIGHT" be a LITTLE underpowered compared to the YZF. Ill take the honda handeling and reliability all day long.
Besides what are we talking about 2-3HP edge maybe for the Yami.
I have an idea, lets make a list of eveyone badmouthing the new honda and ban them from buying one!!!
:blah:

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by a1965gt
I dont understand why everyone is crying....
All I heard 6 mo. ago was when I honda going to build a quad with a CRF motor, now we have it and everybody compains????
As for the frame, the 250R/400EX frame has been the blueprint for most other sport quads so what is everyone expecting... some radical new design????
:blah:

I think we are mad because we waited forever for this thing to come out and there is nothing special about it. They already had hte 250R/400ex frame, they already had the CRF motor, why did it take so damn long?
The honda has a kick start and weighs the same as the Yamaha (yeah i know the numbers are probably fudged in the ads but we'll just have to wait and see) with electric start, it has an inch less suspension travel, and from the pic looks like a 250r just grew some headlights. I love honda but for as long as we were waiting I was expecting at least something somewhat new or novel.

[aroracer72]

JEESH!!!!...what took them soo long is what is gonna be were your out riding in the dunes torturing your honda, and it wont miss a beat, were as the yamaha will puke on you, thats what took so damn long, and 1 inch of travel doesnt make a huge difference, LT front ends come in 19 or 18 inch versions, and FArr and gust use 18, soo 1 inch means jack. And as for a 250r/400ex frame, is that soo bad??...after all, the 250r and 400ex frame are considered the platform for aftermarket frames. So they just took there time to combine all the BEST elements and durability testing to bring the best. WERE as the yamaha, were they ran into minor little probs, they skipped or half assed fixed, and and honda FULLY corrected it. Just wait, there will be something we dont know or notice.

P.S those honda shocks look more "works" like than the yamaha, the yamaha's shocks makes me think of raptor shock with a rezzie, were as the honda kind of looks like a 400ex shock, but something looks more complex about it, only time will tell.

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by aroracer72
JEESH!!!!...what took them soo long is what is gonna be were your out riding in the dunes torturing your honda, and it wont miss a beat, were as the yamaha will puke on you, thats what took so damn long, and 1 inch of travel doesnt make a huge difference, LT front ends come in 19 or 18 inch versions, and FArr and gust use 18, soo 1 inch means jack. And as for a 250r/400ex frame, is that soo bad??...after all, the 250r and 400ex frame are considered the platform for aftermarket frames. So they just took there time to combine all the BEST elements and durability testing to bring the best. WERE as the yamaha, were they ran into minor little probs, they skipped or half assed fixed, and and honda FULLY corrected it. Just wait, there will be something we dont know or notice.

P.S those honda shocks look more "works" like than the yamaha, the yamaha's shocks makes me think of raptor shock with a rezzie, were as the honda kind of looks like a 400ex shock, but something looks more complex about it, only time will tell.

To me it looks like is your standard showa 400ex shock on the pics EXriders homepage has. It said it's preload, compression and rebound adjustable, which means it probably has rezzies but thats not much travel for a trick shock.
When you get to long travel front ends, 1 inch isn't huge, but when you are stuffing your 8" of travel, another inch can make a big difference. I know Honda can make good machines, I own one, but simply comparing specs, the Yamaha looks much more impressive. When the comparison tests come out we'll see, and that would be great if the Honda wins, but so far I don't see how it possibly could considering the Yamaha has the motor and suspension edge.
I was just not impressed at all by the CRF450's specs. You'd think with all this time in the works and the release of the Yamaha raising the bar, Honda would do something impressive. Hell, I could have thrown a detuned CRF450 motor in a 400ex frame in a couple days! The one thing I hate about Honda is they are overly-conservative and too image-conscious whereas Yamaha will do something bold, like continue making a 2 cylinder 2 stroke when all the other manufacturers switch to 4 strokes.

I'm not trying to bash Honda, as I know there are a lot of Honda loyalists here. All my friends ride banshees since we dune and i'm sticking with my R, but honestly I am dissapointed, and I think a lot of other people are too. I wanted something that would take the quad world by storm like the 250R did.

No one knows what the motor is going to be like...

look here and youll see
why

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74329

that is if you can understand that the motor is not like the crf, the only thing the trx 450 and crf have in common is the technology and perhaps a few castings for covers are the same.

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by BeeeRock!
No one knows what the motor is going to be like...

look here and youll see
why

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74329

that is if you can understand that the motor is not like the crf, the only thing the trx 450 and crf have in common is the technology and perhaps a few castings for covers are the same.

There are a few problems in that post though...
You say the CRF is 449cc and the TRX is 450cc. Honda says it's 450cc but they also called the CRF a 450. Yamaha calls the YFZ a 450 but it's 439 to come in under the 440cc limit. It would be pretty stupid of honda so come in 9 or 10cc's over the limit.

You also said "The Piston on the TRX has a skirt and a larger wrist pin, this could equate to even more torque then the CRF"
? All pistons have skirts, it's what keeps the piston from turning over like a flapjack in the cylinder. The wrist pin simply connects the piston to the connecting rod, it's size doesn't matter if it does the job.

Also said was "The trx motor is counterbalanced the crf is not, this could allow for more torque and possibly higher revving.This requires newly designed cases as well."
One thing that exited me about the CRF when it came out and it also got dirtwheels talking, was that the CRF motor had a counterbalancer, which motorcycle motors don't need, but quads do. They were saying that Honda must have had a future quad motor in mind when they designed the CRF.

I'm just saying we don't have much info on the TRX but so far it sounds like a de-tuned CRF motor. Hopefully it'll come out soon and rock everyone's world but it sure doesn't seem like it. Things like "unicam". Gimme a break, just call it what it is, a SOHC (single overhead cam) motor because they were too cheap to make a DOHC design, lol. I think the CRF motor is a dual overhad cam motor, maybe this is a completely different motor. If it is, it sure better make more power than Yamaha's or they don't have prayer.

[twisted threads]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
There are a few problems in that post though...
You say the CRF is 449cc and the TRX is 450cc. Honda says it's 450cc but they also called the CRF a 450. Yamaha calls the YFZ a 450 but it's 439 to come in under the 440cc limit. It would be pretty stupid of honda so come in 9 or 10cc's over the limit.

You also said "The Piston on the TRX has a skirt and a larger wrist pin, this could equate to even more torque then the CRF"
? All pistons have skirts, it's what keeps the piston from turning over like a flapjack in the cylinder.


Andrew I do belive that they changed the limit to 450cc.

Im not for sure but doesn't the new YFZ's piston dont have a skirt?? Its a really flat piston with no skirt.:ermm: :cool:

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
You also said "The Piston on the TRX has a skirt and a larger wrist pin, this could equate to even more torque then the CRF"
? All pistons have skirts, it's what keeps the piston from turning over like a flapjack in the cylinder. The wrist pin simply connects the piston to the connecting rod, it's size doesn't matter if it does the job.,
Ummm, NO, the CRF piston is a skirtless, 2 ring design.


Originally posted by AndrewRRR
Things like "unicam". Gimme a break, just call it what it is, a SOHC (single overhead cam) motor because they were too cheap to make a DOHC design, lol. I think the CRF motor is a dual overhad cam motor,
Ummm, NO it's not a SOHC, and neither is the CRF. Yes it only has one cam, but it's a totally different concept than the typical SOHC setup. And btw, dual overhead cams do have drawbacks, so don't assume that they are the best setup.

One other comment would be in regards to everyone doing the side-by-side spec comparisons. That does not always tell the true tale of the outcome. Example, do a side-by-side between the 400ex and a Raptor. On paper, the Raptor is better or more impressive in every category. But the reality is that the 400ex is a more capable machine everywhere except a straight run race longer than 200 feet.

[WyoDuner]

I can't believe I read all of this. I only have 2 things to say:

1. It's great to have 2 450 class machines available despite which one is better.

2. When the YFZ450 came out, I can't help but remember all the posts saying how the new Honda would be so much better that the Yamaha 450........ I would be surprised if the Honda equalled the Yamaha overall performance and I seriously doubt that the Honda will beatthe Yamaha overall. Hmmm???

Honda plays it safe and Yamaha will stick it's neck out. That's the corporate cultures of each company and there is no denying it.

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Yellow416ex
Ummm, NO, the CRF piston is a skirtless, 2 ring design.


Ummm, NO it's not a SOHC, and neither is the CRF. Yes it only has one cam, but it's a totally different concept than the typical SOHC setup. And btw, dual overhead cams do have drawbacks, so don't assume that they are the best setup.

One other comment would be in regards to everyone doing the side-by-side spec comparisons. That does not always tell the true tale of the outcome. Example, do a side-by-side between the 400ex and a Raptor. On paper, the Raptor is better or more impressive in every category. But the reality is that the 400ex is a more capable machine everywhere except a straight run race longer than 200 feet.

Where can i see a pic of the CRF piston? I know some pistons have very short skirts, such as street bike and forumula 1 pistons that are subject to high rpm operation but I've never seen one completely lacking one. How does it stay perpendicular to the cylinder walls?
How exactly is a unicam different from a SOHC? Assuming it is an overhead cam and not a pushrod motor (oh please), it sounds like SOHC, with one cam actuating both intake and both exhaust valves via rocker arms, or more directly. There are a couple of drawbacks to DOHC motors but they don't outweigh the benefits, which is why you very rarely see SOHC motors anymore compared to dual cam motors.

[DirtDiggler]

I'm no where near as tech-knowledgeable as you guys but doesn't the uni-cam do the same work as dohc with less weight? I'm really asking not being sarcastic. Honda made this out to be revolutionary when they introduced the dirtbike.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
Where can i see a pic of the CRF piston? I know some pistons have very short skirts, such as street bike and forumula 1 pistons that are subject to high rpm operation but I've never seen one completely lacking one. How does it stay perpendicular to the cylinder walls?
How exactly is a unicam different from a SOHC? Assuming it is an overhead cam and not a pushrod motor (oh please), it sounds like SOHC, with one cam actuating both intake and both exhaust valves via rocker arms, or more directly. There are a couple of drawbacks to DOHC motors but they don't outweigh the benefits, which is why you very rarely see SOHC motors anymore compared to dual cam motors.
http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c040_041_042_engineering_all/motorcycles/2003/CRF450R/2003_CRF450R_03.jpg
http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c040_041_042_engineering_all/motorcycles/2003/CRF450R/2003_CRF450R_02.jpg
Ok, I was a little off when I said "a totally different concept". But as you can see in the pic, that's not your normal SOHC. This is a pic from the CRF head, so I don't know how similar or different the TRX head will be.

[norcal.z400]

Originally posted by WyoDuner
I can't believe I read all of this. I only have 2 things to say:

1. It's great to have 2 450 class machines available despite which one is better.

2. When the YFZ450 came out, I can't help but remember all the posts saying how the new Honda would be so much better that the Yamaha 450........ I would be surprised if the Honda equalled the Yamaha overall performance and I seriously doubt that the Honda will beatthe Yamaha overall. Hmmm???

Honda plays it safe and Yamaha will stick it's neck out. That's the corporate cultures of each company and there is no denying it.

Now there is a good post from someone that knows their stuff!! I couldn't agree more

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by norcal.z400
Now there is a good post from someone that knows their stuff!! I couldn't agree more


Take this into consideration too

the YFZ is 439cc
the 450r is 449cc

[DirtDiggler]

I don't think that 10cc's is going to buy you anything especially when you compare compression ratios:

TRX450r = 10.5:1
YFZ450 = 11.9:1

also Yamaha isn't making you get a new exhaust cam they just retarded the timing by 1 tooth.

The fact that the Honda is probably easier to ride and $400 cheaper counts for something as well as the fact that it might be more reliable. But it "appears" that this time around Yamaha is giving buyers more for their money. I'm a Honda owner myself but when I buy a new quad next year it's going to be one of these and I have to get my moneys worth. I've ridden the Yamaha and liked it a lot I guess I'll have to wait until I ride the Honda to make my final judgement.

Peace, Diggler

[Steven]

Yea, I retarted the exhaust cam 1 tooth. 30 minutes for 3 wheel hp... not too bad.

Back to the weight thing... in the Dirt Wheels shoot out, the YZF with after market exhaust weighed less than 350 lbs wet!

Again, I love Honda but damn!

Steve

[AndrewRRR]

It does look like Yamaha has the edge, especially if the earlier post about the Honda being maxed out on power is true. You can always find a few ponies but some bikes are more responsive to mods than others.
That CRF piston is interesting, looks kind of like a formula 1 piston with most of the skirt cut away. I bet it's quite a big lighter than a full skirt piston, quicker revving.
The head does look like your typical SOHC design with the cam directly actuating two valves instead of being in the middle. On the bright side it's probably cheaper to change cams than a dohc design and a few ounces lighter too.
I wish the Honda was out so we could see an actual comparison, this bench racing is getting boring, and i'm impatient! lol
I'm surprised Honda isn't releasing it before christmas. COME ON HONDA, it's still not done???? haha. I wonder how many people will get "IOU one Honda TRX450 when it is released" notes in their stockings ;)

[EvilEwok]

Steven, your wrong. It weighed 350 with the removal of the stock 14 pound exaust and the addition of a close to 4 pound titanium system

[Trx4Life]

Does it really matter. I think they will be close enouff that Honda guys will buy Honda, Yamaha guys will buy Yamaha, and rich guys with buy um both. Then after all that is said and done the skill of the rider will be the only thing that matters. just my two pennies

[a1965gt]

Trx4Life,
You said it brother. I think both quads will be very closly matched and it will come down to personal preferance.

As far as the cost differnce bang for the buck between the two quads. Yeah the YZF does come with a few more nic nacs but nothing that couldnt be added to the honda for under $400 add on to that when the racers remove the headlights on the YZF it leaves a big gap in the plastic. Looks like the the aftermarket should be able to easily design new front plastic to fix the problem but with the honda you get removable front fenders for racing (which I think makes it look a whole lot better) and no need to buy aftermarket plastic unless you just want to change the color. Remove the headlights, pop in the block of plate just like the Z400's and your ready to race. Want to go trail riding with your buds, just snap the fenders back on and your ready for the mud and the muck.
Have to admit when I first say the plastic I didnt like it but you have to hand it to honda the removable fenders are an awesome idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the yamaha having a little more motor that may be true but there is a lot more to racing than the motor. I think any kind of technical racing (meaning other than straight line racing) is 50% rider and 50% machine, then of the 50% machine you can break it down into 33% motor 33%handeling 33% reliability

Its funny how it seems to me the people I hear making a big stink about how many mods or HP someone else has usually either just lost a race or just doesnt have a clue. Becuse theres no way it could have had anything to do with the riders abilitys!!!!!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
I'm surprised Honda isn't releasing it before christmas. COME ON HONDA, it's still not done???? haha. I wonder how many people will get "IOU one Honda TRX450 when it is released" notes in their stockings ;) [/B]

Andrew, Santa told me it will be out before X-Mas. I've been told late Nov. or early Dec. Just in time to roost the elves,... LOL!

:)

Chad502EX.com

[DMH]

I have a question for all of you twin cam experts out there.

Please explain to me how the CRF head (pictured below) could benefit by adding an extra cam. The typical "two cams make more power" answer isn't going to cut it. Explain to me why it would be better to add another cam to this head. If you understand the reasoning behind going with a twin overhead cam setup, you can appreciate the design of the CRF head. Thanks and I look forward to your replies.

DMH

http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c040_041_042_engineering_all/motorcycles/2003/CRF450R/2003_CRF450R_02.jpg

[Steven]

right, 350 with the aftermarket exhaust...

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by DMH
I have a question for all of you twin cam experts out there.

Please explain to me how the CRF head (pictured below) could benefit by adding an extra cam. The typical "two cams make more power" answer isn't going to cut it. Explain to me why it would be better to add another cam to this head. If you understand the reasoning behind going with a twin overhead cam setup, you can appreciate the design of the CRF head. Thanks and I look forward to your replies.

DMH

http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c040_041_042_engineering_all/motorcycles/2003/CRF450R/2003_CRF450R_02.jpg

Twin cams don't necessarily make more power. A properly set up single cam will walk over a poorly set up twin cam any day of the week. I don't want to get into all the theory and engineering behind SOHC and DOHC setups, but in general, DOHC setups allow more flexibility with regards to cam timing, lobe selection, etc. One thing on the CRF head that is interesting is that you have two lobes actuating the two intake valves, then one small lobe actuating linkage that then actuates the rocker arms for two exhaust valves. That part looks prone to failure or early lobe wear. Honda does do their homework though, so we'll see.

[Guy400]

Andrew, I thinking of how much better that rocker arm for the CRF looks than it does for the Raptor. Neither the CRF nor the Raptor have had any reported problems so I don't think it's much of an issue and they both use one rocker arm to actuate two valves. The CRF exhaust rocker is even actuated off a roller whereas the Raptor uses a flat-tappet.

[imac]

I have a question for those that are knoledgeable about engines. The honda engine is supposed to have a longer stroke and a smaller bore than the dirtbike engine, wont this make the engine have more torque? I don't see many crf's at the district races but when I do they seem to hook up better than the yamaha's so if my thoughts are correct this engine will probably be better for xc racing but maybe not as good as the yfz for tt or mx. Heck who cares anyway, basically as long as you have the power to pull third gear up hills that z's and ex's have to be in second gear for its plenty for xc. I was at st.clairsville today and only got passed in the open fields once and I have a stock z as far as the enternal engine stuff goes. It kind of looks like we might all be better off saving our money by riding ex's or z's so we can afford a fresh set of tires every race, it would help out more than more motor I bet.

[yamblaster200]

I have to give my 2 cents on an issue i'm very tired of hearing. Everyone is always saying it comes down to the rider...the faster rider will win. I really don't believe anyone cares about that...most people are probably like me and want the quad THEY are faster on. For me...from what i've heard, i think the 450r will suit me better than the yfz. I'm used to four stroke power...and people say the yfz runs like a 2 stroke...also i believe the honda will be more reliable as honda's usually are, which is a big plus for someone who can't afford to keep fixing things. My point is...I may be a faster rider than the guy I'm riding with and may turn a faster lap time than him....but I'm still going to buy the quad that i can go the fastest on.

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by yamblaster200
I have to give my 2 cents on an issue i'm very tired of hearing. Everyone is always saying it comes down to the rider...the faster rider will win. I really don't believe anyone cares about that...most people are probably like me and want the quad THEY are faster on. For me...from what i've heard, i think the 450r will suit me better than the yfz. I'm used to four stroke power...and people say the yfz runs like a 2 stroke...also i believe the honda will be more reliable as honda's usually are, which is a big plus for someone who can't afford to keep fixing things. My point is...I may be a faster rider than the guy I'm riding with and may turn a faster lap time than him....but I'm still going to buy the quad that i can go the fastest on.

amen

[seatec]

what a crock aboutr the reliability thing.

[DirtDiggler]

The reliability thing is not a crock but there is more to it than meets the eye. There are two sides to the coin.

Side 1:

Most dealers that carry a lot of different brands will tell you out right that they have less repairs on their Honda sales then their other brands. It helps if you actually know them personaly so they are just talking to you as a friend and not trying to make a sale.

Side 2: Most of Honda's quads are built more conservatively in design when it comes to engine power. One example is the compression on the 450r which is 10.5:1 compared to the YFZ's 11.9:1 compression ratio. The more compression you have the more heat you have there is know doubt that over time more heat will create more wear. The list goes on.

[bradley300]

i cant beleivce no one has mentioned this fact.

in the 80's, what was the SLOWEST 250 2 stroke? thats right, hondas own 250r, and it is still considered the better bike thanks to the suspension making up for the motor downfalls. i beleive this will be the same with the 450r.

also, suspension TRAVEL is not nearly as important as TRAVEL QUALITY. once again, this is where honda will win its battles

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by bradley300
i cant beleivce no one has mentioned this fact.

in the 80's, what was the SLOWEST 250 2 stroke? thats right, hondas own 250r, and it is still considered the better bike thanks to the suspension making up for the motor downfalls. i beleive this will be the same with the 450r.

also, suspension TRAVEL is not nearly as important as TRAVEL QUALITY. once again, this is where honda will win its battles

I don't know if I'd go so far to call the 250r slow. The LT put out maybe 1 or 2 more hp (with everything stock). Also, it's not like the YFZ has crappy suspension like the LT did. We'll just have to wait till the TRX comes out. What's the latest release date?

[seatec]

You know, all this will be a moot point when the TRX450 comes out. Honda made a brilliant (once again) move to sign farr and he will kick everybodys ***** and thus the TRX450 will be crowned the best quad ever. Any similarity with RC and his CR250??? its not how it performes, its how it is marketed.

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by AndrewRRR
I don't know if I'd go so far to call the 250r slow. The LT put out maybe 1 or 2 more hp (with everything stock). Also, it's not like the YFZ has crappy suspension like the LT did. We'll just have to wait till the TRX comes out. What's the latest release date?

dont forget the tecate

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by TGW_400ex
dont forget the tecate

Tecate 4, there's a rare one

[bradley300]

i didnt call it a slow quad, but it was the slowest in its class!

[kwatts400]

I spanked an lt out in Mich. this summer. We were mostly stock, just pipes on both bikes. The race wasn't even close. His big brother the zilla was there, and in 3 races, it was a 1/2 of a bike length, whoever got the best start. The r ain't slow, and it will hold up alot longer than the lt's or the tecate-4's will.

[ATC83]

Originally posted by DirtDiggler
The reliability thing is not a crock but there is more to it than meets the eye. There are two sides to the coin.

Side 1:

Most dealers that carry a lot of different brands will tell you out right that they have less repairs on their Honda sales then their other brands. It helps if you actually know them personaly so they are just talking to you as a friend and not trying to make a sale.

Side 2: Most of Honda's quads are built more conservatively in design when it comes to engine power. One example is the compression on the 450r which is 10.5:1 compared to the YFZ's 11.9:1 compression ratio. The more compression you have the more heat you have there is know doubt that over time more heat will create more wear. The list goes on.

I agree with you, if you want to buy a slow bike, buy the Honda with its 10:1 compresion. I for one want to buy a fast bike i.e. the YFZ450 with its 12:1 compresion piston. What pisses me off about Honda is what we all want is a true closed coarse racing bike and Honda did't deliver, Yamaha did. Honda has built a great sport bike not a race bike.

[EvilEwok]

Can we say yur about stoopid :o

[aroracer72]

lol....i dont wanna be a dick...or an *******...but your stupid...no offense. The only difference is the compression..yeah the engine details and stuff are BARELY different..the honda has a longer stroke..which produces more power than a shorter stroke. The carb is bigger on the honda...and just cause its not a FCR doesnt mean it sucks...some 1 like us WOULDNT even notice the difference...wed think the honda carb is better. ALL advertising dazes you guys have, and as for the honda being less good in specifications, its wider, only has .3 less travel (COME ONE!!!..that doesnt make a difference!!!)...the honda is practically the same seat heighth.....has more gas capacity.....A LOT MORE reliable, and ive heard and been told the yfz doesnt weigh 350...ii was told it is around 360. I do like the yammies looks better..by a little....and its electric start remove option...instead of coming with no electric start. But the honda is also 400 dollars cheaper....for that you could put a better carb...or a higher compression piston....and have reliabilty...UNLIKE the yamaha...im shure the majority of the yammies are fine...but the batch of like 200 that have probs ....thats 200 people that are bumming it big time right now. Youll NEVER have that with a honda!!!....unless your an idiot maintenence man....or your dealer screws up putting it together...fluids...ETC....We'll wait till the tests come for the final verdict....but in my mind the yamaha ISNT better...it just came first...there for we think its better. Hope you guys can learn to use your minds instead of your mouths in the futue,
CHAD
And ii dont really care which is better...ill beat them both on my dale, any tiem anywere.

[MIA450R]

Originally posted by bradley300
i cant beleivce no one has mentioned this fact.

in the 80's, what was the SLOWEST 250 2 stroke? thats right, hondas own 250r, and it is still considered the better bike thanks to the suspension making up for the motor downfalls. i beleive this will be the same with the 450r.

also, suspension TRAVEL is not nearly as important as TRAVEL QUALITY. once again, this is where honda will win its battles



Correct,
the 250R's engine was slightly underpowered compared to the Banshee, LT250 and Tecate 250...and made up for it with superior suspension/frame geometry......BUT...

Yamaha clearly learned its lessons from the 80's, and (this time) built a solid suspension/frame along with its 450 high-tech, fast powerplant.

This time around, Honda's suspension and frame almost certainly will not be enough...they also need the HP to be truley competitive now...

Still have to wait and see....

[TGW_400ex]

******** got to testride a 450r and said it might have a little more power and handle more predictably than the YFZ

[911_kidd]

has anyone heard what kinda gearing ratio it has?

[QuadMatt]

http://powersports.honda.com/atvs/utility/model.asp?ModelName=TRX450R&ModelYear=2004&ModelId=TRX450R4&bhcp=1

Link to Honda TRX450R page.

[911_kidd]

released day is next monday i can't wait!!!:cool:

[eddings]

Has anybody heard what the rev. limit is going to be. I was curiouos since yami boasted about the 10750 of the YFZ, why honda hasn't mentioned it.

Just want to know for informational purposes.

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by 911_kidd
released day is next monday i can't wait!!!:cool:

Actually it is the 31st.

[linkcmd88]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
Actually it is the 31st.

Actually it is jan. 28th

[CrazyHondaKid]

Originally posted by Nospowered400
They ever state what the top speed was?

The Top speed for the stock 450R will be 85mph

[quadmxracer]

I agree with aroracer72 on page one.

[lukester720]

Originally posted by eddings
Has anybody heard what the rev. limit is going to be. I was curiouos since yami boasted about the 10750 of the YFZ, why honda hasn't mentioned it.

Just want to know for informational purposes.
9,850 is the rev limit according to dirtwheels.

[911_kidd]

on mine last post mine dealer forgot to call me and let me know that why i post it sorry!!!

[banshee364r]

I cant believe you guys are getting into such a heated battle about which quad is gonna be faster,which on e has the more reliabkle motor blah bla bla bla bla

who cares I wanna meet the one person on here that is gonna leave the damn thing stock anyway i dont care what kind of quad you want honda, yamaha, suzuki, kawi WE ARE ALL GONNA SPEND INSANE AMOUNTS OF MONEY AFTER THE FACT TO MAKE THESE QUADS THE WAY WE WANT THEM!!!!!!!!

The point i am trying to get at is there are so many different riding styles, personal preferences that there is no possible way a manufacturer could make the perfect quad they take in as much info from test riders and consumers and try to make it a reasonably priced four wheeler.
Once again if you dont like something about any fourwheeler there are tons of aftermarket parts out there to change it and if they dont offer what you are looking for be innovative and make it your self I didnt intend to piss anyone off with this post i am just sick of people nit picking apart bone stock quads:mad:

[Jnine]

"I agree with aroracer72 on page one."

First of all, aro-wanna-be-racer is full of s@#t. He claims to know everything there is about the Honda and the Yamaha, (although he owns neither) but when I asked him specific details you could only know by seeing the TRX in person, his computer must have died. Then again, maybe he's just "riding the TRX in the woods behind the dealership" as he claims he was able to do at his local dealer who he claims "had them in stock". Oddly enough when I asked which dealer that was since I live fairly close by, again it was silence. I was willing to drive over and check the next morning. Perhaps out riding agian? Lets think about that.... Does anyone on here really think a dealer would have a TRX on the floor just to look at? H@#l no! If there was any TRX available, it would never make it to the floor. I guarantee you somebody would already own it. It certianly wouldn't be a demo vehicle!

All that being said, the post just above is right on the money. Both quads a very good, (I have ridden both extensively) as is the Suzuki. The most accurate part of the post is that it will take a ton of money to turn them into something. It's still a 10K quad any way you look at it.

[Dubai400TRX]

Ladies, gents and others.

joined the forum just today, after a friend sent me the link. Looking at the previous postings, you should all just take a prozac and chill for a while. Each one is entitled to his own 50c worth. Each bike will handle differently for each rider, so take each comment on face value and go and ride for yourself before slagging annother blokes comments.

Living here in the UAE we are truly blessed, where we step out of the doorstep at home, and we are in the desert and in the dunes. Every Thursday morning a couple of mates meet up at the local garrage, and 30 min later we are in the Desert, doing on average 70 to 110km for the day. On Friday afternoon we all meetup again and this time we do annother 4 hrs with cars and quads mixed.

Our group consists of TRX400, Raptor's, Banshee's, and LTZ400. I can, as a true Honda fan (Owner of a 2003 TRX), state that in stock form the Suzuki trashed the Honda from start to stop in standard trim against a piped, jetted, airfiltered TRX400. Last night I had the local Honda dealer here fit a White Bros. cam in for me, and Thursday will be testing it out to find out what improvements it has made. The Banshee of course leaves everything else standing still.

Now, the reason for me joining this forum is for some advise from orther TRX450 owners. I know they are far and few but all comments will be apreciated. I have been informed last night that my TRX400 has been reposessed and is now under new management. The wife has taken ownership of my bike and told me to look for something else. Being true to Honda i now have 2 situations i need to decide on. One is to buy a Demo TRX400 and modify the suspension and engine to where it would be considdered as a serious contender in this market, or option no 2, wait for the 450, and add the pipe, filter and nerve bars.

My Q is: will you be able to modify the 400 to be as good as the 450 within monetary value of the new 450? Or is it not possible to think this way because of the 450's new motor and suspension?

Or just go for the Yamaha 450 as it is already proven itself? Or the Suzuki? So many choices. Dont want to go for the Suzuki because of the local dealer that has no intrest in support. Dont know if you guys know this, but here in the UAE, there is NO GUARANTEE on a quad even when buying it out of the crate! Honda has decided to give a 3mnth guarantee, but the rest there is nothing. The Bashee is in my opinion the most popular bike here in the UAE under the locals. Probably because of the small shops that have spares and the ammount of bikes on the tar......

If you have not been to Dubai, you will not be able to understand how many bikes there are out in the desert on a weekend. EVERY weekend. Sometimes too much. That is why we have plotted a 75km course away from every thing and every one where we can just ride, race and jump as we like.

looking forward to comments. now, while the company makes as if they are paying me, i will make as if i'm working.

Later

[TGW_400ex]

Our group consists of TRX400, Raptor's, Banshee's, and LTZ400. I can, as a true Honda fan (Owner of a 2003 TRX), state that in stock form the Suzuki trashed the Honda from start to stop in standard trim against a piped, jetted, airfiltered TRX400. Last night I had the local Honda dealer here fit a White Bros. cam in for me, and Thursday will be testing it out to find out what improvements it has made. The Banshee of course leaves everything else standing still.

I have a 03 also and I beat a Z400 (both in stock trim) 2 times outta 3 and the third time i had a bad start

Everyone talks up the Z I have riddin one and they are nice and feel that they might have a little more grunt off the start but they are soo close. Mags like dirtwheels talked that up to make it sound like it was this HUGE difference and its not