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superraptor
01-29-2002, 11:41 PM
i just sold my full MX 400ex, and i regret it already. i am already on the search for another quad. my deal is i want one now and am not for sure whether to buy another 400ex and set it up for MX, or go with a MX 250r, or wait to see if honda steps up to the plate and releases a kick a** quad later this year. i know for a fact the have produce several 450ex prototypes, but will thet release it to sell.

what do you all think?? should i wait on honda, build a 400ex (440ex), or build a 250r? i will race some but i am never gonna go pro (i wish i could but i am not independantly wealthy). i race at some friends mx tracks. what do you all think?
thanks for any help...

CBW
01-29-2002, 11:52 PM
ULTIMATELY ITS YOUR MONEY. BUT ITS HARD TO BEAT THE PULL OF A GOOD BUILT 250R, AND THE HANDLING......WELL WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT THAT.

GET THE R, UPGRADE THE SUSPENSION, HAVE LRD DO A 300 RESLEAVE KIT, AND HOLD ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE.

rhino99
01-30-2002, 12:31 AM
Ditto, only go with a 265 instead of the 300cc!

superraptor
01-30-2002, 11:11 AM
why a 250r over a 400ex. i have never had a 2 stroke and know they make crazy power, but what about reliability, and riding style? i will be running against big bore 400ex's, cannondales and raptors. also which one is cheaper to build?

01-30-2002, 11:38 AM
Get the 400ex,,,,,, the 250r is a nice quad no doubt but it's almost time for it to step down from the throne and let the thumpers step up..I don't think more and more pro's are goin with 4 strokes because there slower,,,get the thumper.

mrusk
01-30-2002, 12:11 PM
Go with the 250r. Many pros may be switching to 4 strokes, but not the 400ex. In every other class at the GNCs, except the 4 stroke classes, 250r own.


matt

CBW
01-30-2002, 12:38 PM
RHINO99......
I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT MOTOR WORK ON MY 88R WHICH IS STILL ON THE FIRST BORE. AROUND 1998 I BOUGHT A MOTOR KIT FROM NACS, WHICH THEY DONT OFFER ANY LONGER, FOR MY 85 ATC 250R AND THE PORT JOB IS DONE BY FMF. AND I LIKED THE FACT THAT IT WAS, AND STILL IS STOCK BORE AND STROKE. THE POWER IS GREAT, SINCE THE FRONT END IS CONSIDERABLY LIGHTER THAN A QUAD. SUPPOSEDLY AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE KIT THEIR RACERS USED.

ANYHOW WHO MAKES A GOOD 265 PORTED KIT. I WOULD RATHER BUY THE CYLINDER THAN SEND MINE IN TO HAVE THE WORK DONE SO I CAN STILL RIDE UP UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE.

SORRY FOR GETTING OFF THE SUBJECT, BUT TO ANSWER A PREVIOUS QUESTION THE RELIABILITY OF A 250R IS JUST AS GOOD AS THE PRESON MAINTAINING THE MOTOR.

superraptor
01-30-2002, 03:12 PM
i am thinking of another 400ex too. what would you suggest motor wise? i want to run with the big boys. i am conteplating a roll design suspension but may go with lone star instead due to the cost. i am gonna go all out this time around. what do you suggest?

rhino99
01-30-2002, 03:24 PM
Chris Waters,

I got my 265 top end from LRD, I bought the cylinder and all from them, for the exact same reason that you stated, and plus the fact that I now have a backup cylinder just in case. They did an awesome job on mine, custom ported it and cut the head for my altitude and riding style, this thing rips. They claim it will make between 45 and 50hp and its the exact same top end they send pros that run their motors. Its got a cool head with I think 19cc dome (gotta run race gas though), its ported like you wouldnt believe, I looked at the ports compared to the ones on my stock cylinder and they dont even look close to the same, the LRD ones are just HUGE in comparison! Its super fast, my buddy has a 300cc kit from LRD and they said that they will make about the same HP, and I believe it, he rode mine and just got off and said "f$&# this dude, I am ordering a 265, but with powervalve!" and he did, only from sparks, now I cant even touch it! haha, but thats what you get for an extra lot of money!
LRD will charge you a core charge if you dont send them a cylinder though, and thats an extra 300 bucks, but you can keep yours until you get the LRD and then send it in and they will refund your money. I think out the door with a 36mm carb, cool head, dome and all that good stuff mine was right at $1000 or something very close, luckily sponsors paid for it, as well as my rear TCS shock!
I think you will be real happy with LRD, but dont hesitate to look at other places, Sparks of course won the championship this year, which basically means that the 2-strokes arent obsolete yet!
Sorry to write this long off subject!

About which 400 motor to get, if you are really sold on a 400ex, then go with a 426 if you are racing MX. TC Racing seems to make a pretty good kit and I would probably go with that. The 426 revs quicker than a 440, which is good. A 416 might not be bad either, I just dont likethe 440, except in the woods, then I love it. However, my R I promise will beat most built 400exs. Like was said earlier, the pros are goin to 4-strokes, but they arent riding 400ex's they are riding YZ's and CRF's and DRZ's, which arent the same thing as I am sure you know! And JJ just won the championship on a 2-stroke, mind you it was a powervalved sparks topend. But you could get a decent used R and put on a 1600 topend for probably teh same as a stock 400ex if you shopped around. Just get one with a good frame and a seemingly good bottom end, and change everything else to aftermarket!!!

JabberJaw
01-30-2002, 03:54 PM
The best advise I can give you is this:

Always look both directions before you take a leak.
Always think before you break wind.
Never say 'never' unless its the last thing you'll ever do.
Always keep a stiff upper hip.
One man's trash is another man's Yamaha.

CBW
01-30-2002, 11:22 PM
RHINO99,


I HAD ALREADY SETTLED ON LRD, BUT TO GET THE INPUT FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS ONE OF THEIR KITS PUT THE ICING ON THE CAKE. ACTUALLY I HAD FORGOT ABOUT THE 265cc OPTION. 310 AND 330 KITS SEEM TO BE IN MOST OF THE ADS LATELY, AND I WAS READING ABOUT THE 300 KIT IN A CATALOG I GOT FROM LRD'S BOOTH AT SANDFEST IN 2000. THANKS FOR THE GOOD ADVICE!! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, YOU ALSO JABBERJAW.

superraptor
01-31-2002, 09:54 AM
what about CT racings 319, 330, 350cc r based motors? you hear about all the big names using them and all they have to say is they rip. i can see that a 2 stroke can belt out 50 or 60hp, but what can you get out of a good 400 ex for the same $1700 your gonna speend on the 330cc 3 stroke? they guys i will race are like me, they are not pros. i would love to have a quad with 60hp, but i dont want to kill my self. i grant you i can ride really well, but is it a nesesity to have 60 hp to win races? also is there more competition in 2 or 4 stroke classes?

01-31-2002, 10:18 AM
The 400ex with a bored motor will run pretty dang fast. I run a 416 kit and it's like double the power..Now about the pro's goin to thumpers and not running 400ex,,,it's the PRO'S runnin these motors along with top pro-am and A riders,,not your normal joe shmo. Superraptor unless you plan on starting out at the top of the race program a built 400ex will more than well do the job. I've been teamed up with 250r's in races,,becuase there wasn't enough entry's in each class and beat 4 out 8 racers on 250r's-265r's ....On my piped 400ex,,,hadn't bored it out yet,,so dont' think a built 400ex is not gonna get the job done cuz it will...and the most important thing to remember is the bike is only 10% of it,,the rider is the other 190%.

superraptor
01-31-2002, 11:31 AM
i agree. i want to work my way through thr ranks and by the time, if i ever do, reach the top ranks in racing there is no telling what will be winning. now i need to find a good 400ex project bike. i will more than likley replace all of it but the frame with after market parts. here we go again another money pit.....

rhino99
01-31-2002, 01:04 PM
Well said Rico, 10% bike and 90% rider, in local races especially, you can in on a 250r or a 400ex, heck guys around here win on LT250rs, 300ex, etc, it just depends whos riding it. A 400ex will no doubt get the job done, I personally prefer a 2 stroke, just cause I like the way the power comes on, but a 4stroke is definately less maintance and can go fast too. The only thing is that with a 2 stroke, you can basically get twice the power for half the money, if thats an issue. Things like pipes and porting, etc increase hp way more on a 2 stroke than a 4 stroke.

My comment about getting an R and putting in some mods like a whole top end and still being cheaper than a 400 wasnt exactly true either. After I said that I went and check on 400ex prices vs. 250r prices and you can damn near get a 400ex for as cheap as an R, which is pretty crazy! Me, I traded my R for a 300ex straight up, but seems prices are pretty high on R's right now. I think if I were going to replace everything though, I would stil go with an R and try and find a junked out one!

You could always find a 400ex, or R already setup the way you wanted too, instead of replacing everything!

01-31-2002, 01:43 PM
Yup,,either way if you plan on racin it's gonna drain your bank account.

Rhino the track I race at in Ky called blackrock,,the guy that normally wins the open 4 stroke class runs a rocky ridge built 300ex,,,he's a small guy that absolutely rips around the track,,I dont' think he lets off the throttle on that little thing the entire race. He beats $12,000 440's and 416's its cool to see him lay the smack down on his 300..I think he runs a 330 or 365 kit though,,it's not stock thats for dang sure.

superraptor
01-31-2002, 02:19 PM
why did you trade your r for a 300ex if you like a 2 stroke so much. you could have easily traded the r for a 400ex. why a 300?

rhino99
01-31-2002, 04:30 PM
Sorry to confuse you, I traded a 300ex to get my R, straight up. DEFINATELY not the other way around!

superraptor
02-01-2002, 01:42 PM
i was about to say,, i am glad to hear it was the 300ex for the r.

mrusk
02-01-2002, 04:58 PM
Once i was reading some national race results and the top 10 riders in 4 stroke pro am were on yzfs and i think the top ten in 4 stroke A except for Ang Moore were too..

superraptor
02-01-2002, 05:32 PM
must be nice to have $20000 for a quad laying around.

400MXer
02-01-2002, 11:19 PM
For all you guys building your 250r motors up....have you thought about Duncan racing. Call them up and they will hook you up with a paul turner motor. And you can't say that they are bad. Spader won the championship last year with it, and Travis Caine won 250A this year with it. But they won it with the PC2000 power valve. Which is 1800 just for the cyclinder kit. But you can get the national midrange 265cc kit for 1195. That includes:

Paul turner pipe and silencer, National porting and head mods, carb, jet kit, pyramid reed valve, k&n filter, spark pulgs, t-shirts and technical instructions and all the other goodies.

rhino99
02-02-2002, 07:23 AM
That sounds like a pretty good deal from Duncan. When I ordered mine, I simply ordered it because its what my friend was running, an LRD and he runs open A in nationals, so I took his advice. I know the Duncan/Paul Turner motors are strong motors, for someone wanting one, that may not be a bad way to go.

My question is, is that price for an entirely new cylinder and head or is that just to redo your old one? If thats just to redo the one you already have, thats way high on price, even for all that stuff, especially with just head mods, not a cool head or something.

400MXer
02-02-2002, 09:19 AM
Yeah, that's for a new cylinder. And it says that the buyer can replace the stock PTR head mod for a PTR-powerhead.!

angelon400ex
02-02-2002, 06:12 PM
400MXer, What do you think about the Duncan racing exhaust? I have a contract sitting here in my house inviting me to join the 2002 Duncan Racing International Support Team. I wasn't planning on replacing my exhaust but I may need to. I have a Supertrapp IDS2 now. I am getting real excited about the upcoming season. I will be racing my first race of this season three weekends from now.

upstate rider
02-02-2002, 06:26 PM
Angel good luck in your 1st race weather you change your exhaust or not , congrats on making the race team.

400MXer
02-02-2002, 10:31 PM
I'm sorry guys.....i was wrong....all the things are performed on the customers cylinder. my bad.


angelon400ex
I love my duncan exhaust. It give great power, sounds incredible and looks good too. But duncan doesn't make the Double barrel anymore. Now it's the fatboy 4 stroke exhaust. From what i hear, it makes more power than the double barrel. And with the sponsorship, if you got one like i got, it's well worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!