Got Off The Phone With Elka! Big Info!

[QuadTrix6]

Apparantly jeff is wrong. You guys wanted facts and here you go. I called up ELKA and spoke to Yann. I asked him if offsets on the front wheel will effect the front shock valving. He replied with yes you will need some stiffer springs. I then explained to Yann gabes experiment and about a dual a arm set up where it will not effect it and he was very confused. He did not know what to say so he put me on hold for about 10 minutes. He then came back and said i will go get the engineer. Another 5 minutes later elkas engineer Sam came on and i explained it again. He then said I was absolutely RIGHT that the front offsets will not have an effect on the front shocks.

Are you satisfied now? :rolleyes:

[Pappy]

lol..your the one that was most unsatisfied....the rest of us had pretty much figured it out:p

do you lose sleep over these things?

[Chanman420q]

well its official, offsets dont, but it still doesnt make sence, it sticks the wheels out farther. same as if +2 arms, whixh puts more leverage... ahh screw it here we go again

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Pappy
lol..your the one that was most unsatisfied....the rest of us had pretty much figured it out:p

do you lose sleep over these things?


I knew the answer all along i had to prove it to the guys who wanna say bathroom scale and a jack can't prove anything, and most of all to jeff who claimed he had dyno tests from elka to prove it and to help him to better valve shocks. i worked hard to get you guys the right info because i care about all of you soo very much..:cool:

I just wanted to add that it unfortunate that guys don't even care about the right information getting out. you guys don't seem to really care about the answer yet youll have 800 pages on PROPER SHOCK SETUP, that boggles my mind.
:scary:

[bansheeguy77]

god dam dude ur so all out for being right just relax a bit....btw why are u calling elka? i thought u were the one who kisses ur peps goodnight

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by bansheeguy77
god dam dude ur so all out for being right just relax a bit....btw why are u calling elka? i thought u were the one who kisses ur peps goodnight


Shhhhh its ok :blah:

and BTW i do more than kiss my PEPS :eek2: :scary:

[bansheeguy77]

oh and i dont think it would put more leverage on the arms

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by bansheeguy77
oh and i dont think it would put more leverage on the arms


:cool: :D

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
I just wanted to add that it unfortunate that guys don't even care about the right information getting out.
:scary:


That's why I bought Elka's, so I don't have to care. ha ha ha.



nice info, bad way of going about it.

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
nice info, bad way of going about it.

I think theres a hidden thank you in there :scary: :blah:


sorry if i came accross bad :ermm:

[sly400ex]

I don't think you went about it the wrong way, there was so much flack about this topic and you just presented the facts! Pat on the back for you!:)

[Rip_Tear]

Well Jeff better burn that info then :p

Good job Quadtrix6! From now on your incharge of disputes, you phone the places to find the facts :D JP

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by sly400ex
I don't think you went about it the wrong way, there was so much flack about this topic and you just presented the facts! Pat on the back for you!:)

Originally posted by Rip_Tear
Well Jeff better burn that info then :p
Good job Quadtrix6! From now on your incharge of disputes, you phone the places to find the facts :D JP

Thanks Guys :cool:

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
i worked hard to get you guys the right info because i care about all of you soo very much..:cool:

I just wanted to add that it unfortunate that guys don't even care about the right information getting out.:scary:


thats a piss poor attitude

So what exactly did you get out of this thread quadtrix????????:confused:


I think Jeff could hold his own up against just about anybody on this webpage in the woods. Proper or improper setup of shocks.. He is a well respected member and nationally ranked racer that you've tried to make a fool of. IMO you've made a fool of yourself..:ermm:

Originally posted by Rico
So what exactly did you get out of this thread quadtrix????????:confused:


I think Jeff could hold his own up against just about anybody on this webpage in the woods. Proper or improper setup of shocks.. He is a well respected member and nationally ranked racer that you've tried to make a fool of. IMO you've made a fool of yourself..:ermm:


i agree:o

[Silverfox@C&DRacing]

I don't want to get in a pissing match here and I am sure that I do not know all the facts that you guys are talking about but the thing that I see what you are saying is that offset wheels do not have an effect on the stiffness of the shocks.. if that is what you are saying then speaking from experience when I first got my Elka economies I put them on and though they were pretty stiff so we called Elka and asked if softer springs were needed and we also realized that we had them set up for offset wheels and when I first installed them I had my stock rims on they told me that I may need softer springs but go ahead and try the offset wheels and go from there. That made a pretty big difference in the way that they felt, they were not so stiff.. If I am way off from what you are talking about I appologise.

[JustRace]

I have no problem with anyone, but just because someone is a great racer doesn't mean that they can't be wrong. Jeff may be the best rider on the site, well atleast one of the best, but that is no excuse to give out wrong information (or at a minimum give supporting facts). I think we all may have learned something as long as we were open minded. I know i gained knowledge from the information. Hopefully this will end the debate for now, and all the *****ing between members.

[wilkin250r]

I think many of us are comparing apples to oranges, and the problems are getting compounded by the personalities involved.

This topic has recieved a lot of attention recently, and there are varying views and different arguements flying around. In a simple static (non-moving) analysis, offset wheels do not effect the shocks. In reality, changing any aspect of your quad will have effects everywhere. Changing the spring rate on your front shocks will affect your traction, changing your offset will effect your front shocks AND your back shocks. Heck, changing your rear tire size will even have a small effect on your front shocks.

On one hand you have somebody like Jeff, who KNOWS by experience than changing the offset affects his quad's handling characteristics. He knows this because he has felt it. He may not be able to write a third order differential equation describing all the dynamic changes involved, but they are still there.

On the other hand you have somebody (like myself and others) with extensive mechanical engineering education, who CAN write the equations for the translation of torque into tension and compression of the a-arms themselves, and these equations say that the forces on the shock are not different.

Apples and oranges. It's all in the interpretation. An engineer will tell you that there is no difference, because his extensive studies and equations say that there is no difference. A rider will tell you that there IS a difference, because his extensive experience says there is a difference, even if he can't explain exactly what the difference is. Neither is right or wrong, because they are comparing two different areas, theoretical and actual.

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by freeride132
thats a piss poor attitude

How is spreading the correct information and trying to help people piss poor :confused:


Originally posted by Rico
So what exactly did you get out of this thread quadtrix????????:confused:


I think Jeff could hold his own up against just about anybody on this webpage in the woods. Proper or improper setup of shocks.. He is a well respected member and nationally ranked racer that you've tried to make a fool of. IMO you've made a fool of yourself..:ermm:

What I got out of this thread was the correct information that jeff did NOT know. He claimed ELKA backed his statements when they did not. sure he can beat me in a race i am in no way saying im better than him. knowledge and riding ability are two different things. Just cause you are fast doesn't mean you know everything. How am i looking like a fool by sharing the correct info. :confused: because i challenged another members views. I think the only one who looks like a fool are the guys trying to bash me for getting the facts. You guys ask for facts i give you them, you guys ask me to call companys , i call companys, what do you guys want from me. its kinda childish how well known Members with higher post counts bully people out of there own opinions and views, just to let you know i won't back away from my views and what i believe regaurdless of the heat i get from freeride, pappy , jeff, Rico, the list goes on, im not the most liked member and i can give 2 *****s, i come here to learn not to make friends. the only ones with piss poor attitudes are the ones who still can't admit there wrong and arn't willing to learn anything new. In case you havn't noticed all the smart guys have been posting less and less or leaving..maybe you guys need the attitude adjustment :macho

[Fleshwound]

wayda be QuadTrix!

[250rpilot]

i know you guys could really care less about what i think, but here goes.

i want to give thanks to quadtrix, for diggin through the dirt to find the correct info. if noone else does, i appreciate you taking the time to get info for the site.


everyone makes mistakes, whether they own a shop and race or not. it happens.

quadtrix proved his point, and just because he isnt in the "clique" of high post counts, you guys bash him. not cool.

jeff gives TONS of great info, and he needs a thanks for that too, so thanks.

bottom line, offset rims will affect handling, whether they affect the spring rate of the shock or not.

bash on

[Narly R]

Im NOT even giving my opinion on this one!:confused2


Thanks for the info guys...


But i though haveing like inside out wheels caused them to bend a lot eisier if you jump and what not...:ermm:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Narly R
But i though haveing like inside out wheels caused them to bend a lot eisier if you jump and what not...:ermm:

offsets put stress on the upper a arms, spindles and tie rods, which causes premature wear on these parts, causing them to bend easier

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
the only ones with piss poor attitudes are the ones who still can't admit there wrong and arn't willing to learn anything new. Thats exactly what I was thinking about you.
I will have to talk to Sam tomorrow to make sure he knew we were talking about the samething. When we were there we sat down beside Yokley's quad and he even went throught the motions on why it puts more leverage on the shock.

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Thats exactly what I was thinking about you.
I will have to talk to Sam tomorrow to make sure he knew we were talking about the samething. When we were there we sat down beside Yokley's quad and he even went throught the motions on why it puts more leverage on the shock.

Why don't you tell us what he told you when you sat down with yokley ??? Jeff im willing to admit im wrong, but untill i see all this info about yokleys quad and the elka engineer meeting, what am i supposed to believe, :confused: get me the facts that prove me wrong, and ill be wrong, no shame in being wrong im here to learn.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Thats exactly what I was thinking about you.
I will have to talk to Sam tomorrow to make sure he knew we were talking about the samething. When we were there we sat down beside Yokley's quad and he even went throught the motions on why it puts more leverage on the shock.

Jeff, I am certainly not saying that you are wrong, but I am VERY interested in hearing the proof. Please try to get a very detailed explanation on how the offset rims affect the shocks.

[trx400ex]

I dont understand why someone knows more about offsets because they are a good rider or own there own shop. I havent seen any info (confirmed facts) to back up the other side of this argument (offset makes softer) I am no engineer, but i dont need to be an engineer or scientist to feel that offset wheels dont make it softer, me and a friend flipped wheels around and it made no difference on the shocks. I used to think that it did, but after reading all this i no longer do.

Also i dont understand why some people bag on quadtrix maybe they are just not happy that they were proven wrong? One member in particular that ive never had a problem with but dont understand is freeride132, if you read his post it doesnt make any sence on what hes qouted, maybe he just likes attention. I dont know why it seems sometimes when someone has a REAL question on this website they get shot down, but alot of the garbage is tolerated and gets all kinds of replys??

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 250rpilot


quadtrix proved his point, and just because he isnt in the "clique" of high post counts, you guys bash him. not cool.




not to get off-topic, but this bugs me. What is this suppose to mean? Last time I checked, QuadTrix has one of the higher post counts. I for one, believe that post counts mean jack chit and think they should be eliminated.

again, sorry to go off topic, but nothing bugs me more when people base ANY info on post count.

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by MOFO
not to get off-topic, but this bugs me. What is this suppose to mean? Last time I checked, QuadTrix has one of the higher post counts. I for one, believe that post counts mean jack chit and think they should be eliminated.

again, sorry to go off topic, but nothing bugs me more when people base ANY info on post count.

i believe what he saying is im not in the high post count group of guys like , pappy, jeff, rico..etc, please stay on topic, thanks guys for the support, it doesn't go unnoticed :)

[MxDale71]

I'm no genius, and I"m not sayin anyone is right or wrong, but I'll just say why I would think that offset wheels would soften up the shocks.

Ok... imagine a pencil. If you put your thumbs on each end of the pencil, and push down on the middle w/ your fingers, it'll break in half pretty easy. If you take one half of that pencil, it'll be the same thickness and no stronger, but it'll be half as long. Do the same thing and it takes a little more force to break it.

Maybe on a quad it would work that way, but it seems to me like it would be like that. If the tires are real far apart, you would have the same amount of weight pushin in the middle, but it would sag more because it would feel like the difference between holding a 25 lbs weight in front of you w/ your arm extended, or holding it close to you.

Like I said... that's just my own observation and I could be wrong. I dunno, I don't want to take sides. If you guys are talking about something completely different and I just misunderstood, I'm sorry.

[Taco]

Originally posted by MOFO
not to get off-topic, but this bugs me. What is this suppose to mean? Last time I checked, QuadTrix has one of the higher post counts. I for one, believe that post counts mean jack chit and think they should be eliminated.

again, sorry to go off topic, but nothing bugs me more when people base ANY info on post count. You got more posts than me NO FAIR:mad: :macho :grr: :cuss:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by 400exstunta
im not in any group on here. unless theres one about not liking flaming, calling out, or retards. THAT group I am in!

But honestly what are we debating in these last 4 to 6 posts? This is gettin ridiculous, someone lock this thing up before someone gets sore.

yea lock it up so we still don't have an answer like the other two threads, how bout you stay out of this thread cause your the only one starting trouble :rolleyes:

[RIjon]

Oh Goood GRIEF

Take your Quad .... Remove the Front Wheels

Go MAKE some 5 FOOT Wheel Spacers and bolt them on to Each Side

Toss the wheels back on and Go for a Ride

Then you come back and Tell me how well your Shocks Feel (When the oil is Dripping out)

This is SO petty

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by MxDale71
I'm no genius, and I"m not sayin anyone is right or wrong, but I'll just say why I would think that offset wheels would soften up the shocks.

Ok... imagine a pencil. If you put your thumbs on each end of the pencil, and push down on the middle w/ your fingers, it'll break in half pretty easy. If you take one half of that pencil, it'll be the same thickness and no stronger, but it'll be half as long. Do the same thing and it takes a little more force to break it.

Maybe on a quad it would work that way, but it seems to me like it would be like that. If the tires are real far apart, you would have the same amount of weight pushin in the middle, but it would sag more because it would feel like the difference between holding a 25 lbs weight in front of you w/ your arm extended, or holding it close to you.

Like I said... that's just my own observation and I could be wrong. I dunno, I don't want to take sides. If you guys are talking about something completely different and I just misunderstood, I'm sorry.


Please read the other thread before you respond, YOUR DEALING WITH A DUAL ARM SETUP ...NOT 1!!!!

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by RIjon
Oh Goood GRIEF

Take your Quad .... Remove the Front Wheels

Go MAKE some 5 FOOT Wheel Spacers and bolt them on to Each Side

Toss the wheels back on and Go for a Ride

Then you come back and Tell me how well you Shocks Feel (When the oil is Dripping out)

This is SO petty

Gabe did that and showed NO difference

[QuadTrix6]

so it gets more views i think its pretty important, it was also to get the attention of MOFO who asked me to call ELKA

[RIjon]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
Gabe did that and showed NO difference


mmmmmk

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by 400exstunta
seems to me if it were important to someone they would goto the suspension part of the board and look into any NEW supsension topics.

seems to me your wasting my time and others with your posting nonesense, please end it here i want to stay on topic thanks

[Taco]

damn what do I have to do to get in this "clique":D

[MOFO]

reason for my post has been removed.

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by MOFO
excuse me, I'm going to ask for you to take that comment back.

All I did was ask for this guy to call a shock company, Elka, and back up his claims. He did, and here, in this thread, are the results. I for one, did not believe that just a bathroom scale could measure all of the physical conditions that a front end of a quad will go through. Am I wrong for questioning someone when there are other conflicting answers out there?

i believe we had this discusion earlier if you have more questions IM me AGAIN

PLEASE STOP THE OFF TOPIC OR PAPPY IS GONNA LOCK IT :ermm:

[Ryan]

Have you guys tried asking Santo?

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Ryan
Have you guys tried asking Santo?


i think he is staying out of it because no matter what he says he is gonna get crap :ermm:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by 250rpilot
well i am gonna delete my posts that are off topic, then i will delete this one.

no your fine leave them

[Ryan]

You should call him up and find out. This way he won't have to deal with all the other feedback.

[Pappy]

well since my name is back in here i will lay it down like this....


jeff IMO went with his best judgemenet and followed the train of thought he knew to be correct.

other members asked questions and learned alot from the information exchanged.


now....onto the constant use of high post counts and bashing. ENOUGH. if you honestly think there is some inner circle of members that stick together you are WRONG. after reading the offset thread and learning by asking questions i feel that jeff is quite possibly inncorrect in his opinion. with that said.....quadtrix you need a to get off his case BIGTIME. there is no way jeff walks on water and he IS entitled to be wrong. starting 2 seperate threads about this and HIM in particuliar shows you have an intrest in seeing HIM proved wrong and called out in front of everyone....and that aint cool no matter who the member is or his RANK or STATUS or POST count. total immaturatity from the get go.

i find it disturbing that one takes an obsession over proving another wrong. actually it sickens me.

as for the rest of you.....tighten up. i try and be a pretty fair dude but i aint gonna let a bunch of BS ruin the site. i dont have a side in this issue....i dont really give much a hoot about who is right or who is wrong. adults can agree and disagree without this kinda crap.

ive had enough of it and it stops here. the so called circle doesnt exist...the post count dont mean chit....the facts have been proven and the issue is over. now...if you dont think im serious.....respond with some more BS .

[Taco]

peep:D

[Bad Habit]

OK I'll try to keep the BS out of this reply.;)

If I may try and give some advise to anyone and everyone with a dog in this hunt. I think that we are getting a little off track from what this should be, an exchange of information. There has been alot of good information supplied in the related threads on this subject. Let's try to leave it at that, please. We don't really have to prove one opinion right or wrong, or worse yet, point out individuals as right or wrong. Just stick with information, good and bad. Then, as individuals, take from it what you want. Apply it the way you want. And above all, LEARN from it and then start the process all over again. If a guy next to me sticks a carrot up his arse to make him ride faster and better, then great for him. I'm not gonna try it, but great that it works for him.

[QuadTrix6]

things gotta outta hand. i guess when jeff get this info he will post it here we'll be waiting

[AtvMxRider]

How about a big group hug...........:ermm: :D :blah:

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How about a big group hug...........:ermm: :D :blah:

omfg u homo!!! u just wanna hug all the men:confused2

RUN!!!!! JERRY IS GONNA GET YA!!!!:eek2:

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
things gotta outta hand. i guess when jeff get this info he will post it here we'll be waiting I received my proof from Elka, it backed up my theory and thats all I need to know. You have your opinon and I have mine. Lets just call it a day and go racing.

why post this in the open forum other than to attract attention and create a flame, if your only intention was to post info given to you by elka why not post it in the correct forum with a title like the truth about wheel offsets or some gay name its as simple as that , doing what your doing is just asking for a flame

i myself would rather listen to jeff or call elka myself if i really cared, jeffs got alot more years on a quad and last time i saw i think u were jumping some lil 2 ft jumps, correct me if im wrong but i think its you no flame intended but if thats all you do you know jack chit about suspension


u wanan give some info delete this thread and post it in the suspension forum

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
things gotta outta hand. i guess when jeff get this info he will post it here we'll be waiting

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I received my proof from Elka, it backed up my theory and thats all I need to know. You have your opinon and I have mine. Lets just call it a day and go racing.

[JOEX]

Originally posted by Pappy
well since my name is back in here i will lay it down like this....


jeff IMO went with his best judgemenet and followed the train of thought he knew to be correct.

other members asked questions and learned alot from the information exchanged.


now....onto the constant use of high post counts and bashing. ENOUGH. if you honestly think there is some inner circle of members that stick together you are WRONG. after reading the offset thread and learning by asking questions i feel that jeff is quite possibly inncorrect in his opinion. with that said.....quadtrix you need a to get off his case BIGTIME. there is no way jeff walks on water and he IS entitled to be wrong. starting 2 seperate threads about this and HIM in particuliar shows you have an intrest in seeing HIM proved wrong and called out in front of everyone....and that aint cool no matter who the member is or his RANK or STATUS or POST count. total immaturatity from the get go.

i find it disturbing that one takes an obsession over proving another wrong. actually it sickens me.

as for the rest of you.....tighten up. i try and be a pretty fair dude but i aint gonna let a bunch of BS ruin the site. i dont have a side in this issue....i dont really give much a hoot about who is right or who is wrong. adults can agree and disagree without this kinda crap.

ive had enough of it and it stops here. the so called circle doesnt exist...the post count dont mean chit....the facts have been proven and the issue is over. now...if you dont think im serious.....respond with some more BS .
I have to disagree on few of your observations. I'm in no way taking sides since i'm one of those that know little on the subject of technical suspension setupsand would like to know more.

First off I don't think there is any kind of higher "clique" here. Sure there are some local groups that are regular posters and it may seem like there is a higher clique but I don't belive there is.

I do belive QuadTrix6 was only looking for FACTS, not to prove someone wrong, to get accurate information. Accurate information can be very difficult to attain on this site on various subjects. Most of the info is based on personal opinion, not that it is wrong, it is just opinion. I do value others opinions on thier setups and take what I can from it.

I don't think the facts have been proven yet, at least not to me. There is still some dispute what the facts are.

Post counts can be a valuble asset if used properly. Personnally I go by the ratio of number of posts to date of membership. Membership date being more important.

JMO, Joe

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
You have your opinon and I have mine. Lets just call it a day and go racing.

Ding, ding, ding. And the award for "best advise in a thread that's gone astray" goes to.................................Jeff:D

[QuadTrix6]

Im yet to see or hear ANY proof. this thread is a waste of time, now that a few of you chimed in with nonesense, thanks to those who saw what i was trying to do, and for all the PM;s, i now know im not alone here. if i came across bad its because i am constantly challenged on this site becuase i say things that might rub people the wrong way, but i try to keep it honest. sorry jeff if you felt i attacked you, but when you make a statement please back it up. To those who are to thick headed to realize your wrong, i feel bad for you. i come here to learn maybe other don't. lets try to provide correct information on here, that was my point. Jeff its ok to be wrong. i think you guys need to be more open minded.

looks like he is being a pretty good sport about it, and your OBVIOUSLY trying to throw up in his face whatever the phonecall stated, just drop it and let it go, i agree this thread was waste of time and it should be deleted

[300EXrider02]

I must say that I agree with quadtrix all the way, but since everyone has pms right now, there is no way in hell I am going to state any opinion, or argument, because I know my ***** will be booted, stomped, thrown off a cliff and the button will be pushed serveral times....just the way it is

[markeg192]

I'm with Jeff. If you move your wheel out it increases the distance from your shock mount and where your wheel contats the ground. This will increase leverage on the shock and throw you valving at least a little off.

[bansheeguy77]

Originally posted by markeg192
I'm with Jeff. If you move your wheel out it increases the distance from your shock mount and where your wheel contats the ground. This will increase leverage on the shock and throw you valving at least a little off.

yup i agree...i change my vote, i just did a little experiment of my own and it does put more pressure on it. but we all will have an opinion on this and will bicker forever. so we needa stop or get info or something. but quadtrix i agree with pappy and thats what i was getting at with my first post, you are all out to get jeff. jeff is a cool guy and im sure he will admit if hes wrong. so dont be throwing it in his face thats all....we all can be adults here right?

need more info!!!LESS BS!

[markeg192]

Omg A yammi rider agrees with me! J/K

Originally posted by markeg192
Omg A yammi rider agrees with me! J/K
hes gotta a quad:confused:

[bradley300]

this is all my fault! i should have never told pappy to use a 4+1 wheel instead of 2+3 to stiffen his shocks! sorry guys!

i think it does soften shocks though.

On the other hand you have somebody (like myself and others) with extensive mechanical engineering education, who CAN write the equations for the translation of torque into tension and compression of the a-arms themselves, and these equations say that the forces on the shock are not different.

Apples and oranges. It's all in the interpretation. An engineer will tell you that there is no difference, because his extensive studies and equations say that there is no difference. A rider will tell you that there IS a difference, because his extensive experience says there is a difference, even if he can't explain exactly what the difference is. Neither is right or wrong, because they are comparing two different areas, theoretical and actual..

So thats what I have been trying to say to all you engineers for all these years LMAO.

Any chance of getting you to "draw" it up for us? :)

Originally posted by freeride132
looks like he is being a pretty good sport about it, and your OBVIOUSLY trying to throw up in his face whatever the phonecall stated, just drop it and let it go, i agree this thread was waste of time and it should be deleted

No dont delete it. Clean it up if you like but dont delete it because it seems its (this question) not going away.

I agree this whole thing would be "easier" without the competition and maybe a lot shorter etc but who is to dictate how we all express ourselves.

I think we all need to seriously learn to "take it from where it somes" and rethink who we let get to us.

Originally posted by "2-R's Rider"
need more info!!!LESS BS!

:D :D

Seriously a great thought (dave you get a star LMFAO)

Can we just forget about who thought what or was right or not and just get some real info on this issue.

And whats this "circle jerk" about anyway :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[DEAL]

It does put extra pressure on the shock , I've ridden quads with offset wheels and the suspension is softer than it should be.

[Castor-426ex]

pappy

if their aint a inner circle wtf have i been sending 74 cents a day to your addy in maryland???


jk:D

[popo]

Originally posted by bradley300
this is all my fault! i should have never told pappy to use a 4+1 wheel instead of 2+3 to stiffen his shocks! sorry guys!

i think it does soften shocks though.

You JACK ***!!!

[Atreyu]

i think i am a homosexual :confused: maybe i should call a hotline and find out??