ATT: Jeff@Quadshop

[QuadTrix6]

I just saw you got back from the ELKA facility and was wondering if you got the dyno sheet for the effect of offsets on shocks

[cdalejef]

We did not have time to test it but the engineer at Elka confirmed that the more offset the wheel, the more leverage on the shock. If you don't believe me, call and ask them yourself.

lmao:p

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
We did not have time to test it but the engineer at Elka confirmed that the more offset the wheel, the more leverage on the shock. If you don't believe me, call and ask them yourself.

woo wooo

[RIjon]

Thank you very much ;)

[bradley300]

i knew it!!!!

[QuadJunkies]

I got to really give my offsets a try this wk end...I wont say what I thought of them other than I need some shocks and Aarms soon......:mad: They will work for flattrack but I dont know that I want to MX in them in a few weeks.:eek2: I need a steering stabilizer REALLY bad I tend to wander all over the place now and fight my bars like crazy on hardpack ,rocks ect... I didnt know if I would be able to tell any dif. with an offset....But I could right away.....:( Oh well, Ill be good for the flattrack anyways..:ermm:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
I need a steering stabilizer REALLY bad I tend to wander all over the place now and fight my bars like crazy on hardpack ,rocks ect... I didnt know if I would be able to tell any dif. with an offset....But I could right away..:ermm:


Thats bumpsteer, we are discussing levage on shocks with offset wheels. what offset are you running i ran 2:3 's and they were horrible :ermm:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
We did not have time to test it but the engineer at Elka confirmed that the more offset the wheel, the more leverage on the shock. If you don't believe me, call and ask them yourself.

Originally posted by Ralph
woo wooo

Originally posted by RIjon
Thank you very much ;)

Originally posted by bradley300
i knew it!!!!


Im not sure if you guys missed Gabes thread but this Proves absolutly NOTHING. Jeff this concerns me because you are yet to provide any factual information to back up your statements. I know Elka is on the site so maybe you can get them to provide some facts cause simply stating they said so isn't really saying much.

feel like I am watching/reading part 2 ...its cool ,continue ..:D

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
Thats bumpsteer, we are discussing levage on shocks with offset wheels. what offset are you running i ran 2:3 's and they were horrible :ermm: Im running a 2-4 offset . Yeah I knew that you all were talking about the leverage on the shock, but when all this topic came up before it turned out to be a mess.:( I mainly got the offset for flattrack anyhow for width but Im not liking it offroad riding at all. I noticed in rocks and dry/bumpy rouch harpack I wander and Jerk alot on my bars if that makes any sense how I expained it....Its alot harder to manouver as well and I feel my elbows in the joints hurt more too...Is this common?

[QuadJunkies]

also, I dont mean to but in and change the topic much but I am going to MX race on the 20th. Do I dare run it thisway, or should I run the Predator instead? I dont want to kill myself out there...:o :eek:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
Im running a 2-4 offset . Yeah I knew that you all were talking about the leverage on the shock, but when all this topic came up before it turned out to be a mess.:( I mainly got the offset for flattrack anyhow for width but Im not liking it offroad riding at all. I noticed in rocks and dry/bumpy rouch harpack I wander and Jerk alot on my bars if that makes any sense how I expained it....Its alot harder to manouver as well and I feel my elbows in the joints hurt more too...Is this common?


wow 2:4 thats crazy..i had to sell my 2:3's because of all the bumpsteer, wandering and jerking, a stabalizer will help some but it will still be bad, it is common, now i run 3:2;s :D huge improvement :cool:

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
wow 2:4 thats crazy..i had to sell my 2:3's because of all the bumpsteer, wandering and jerking, a stabalizer will help some but it will still be bad, it is common, now i run 3:2;s :D huge improvement :cool: LOL.well the sponsor funds only go so far....:p ;) and between us both it goes fast.....It was all I could afford to do for the time being Im hoping for a super good deal out ther or Ill just wait until spring I guess.....:)

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
Im not sure if you guys missed Gabes thread but this Proves absolutly NOTHING. Jeff this concerns me because you are yet to provide any factual information to back up your statements. I know Elka is on the site so maybe you can get them to provide some facts cause simply stating they said so isn't really saying much. Thats why I told you to call them and ask for yourself! I'm done wasting my time about this post, its been proven to me and it backed up what I said. I respect Gabe, he is very knowledgeable about quads but weighing the front of a quad proves nothing. I know what I feel and I trust the engineer at Elka, he does this for a living!

[QuadJunkies]

:eek: ok...I think Ill tippy -toe quietly out of this thread now.....:D

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Thats why I told you to call them and ask for yourself! I'm done wasting my time about this post, its been proven to me and it backed up what I said. I respect Gabe, he is very knowledgeable about quads but weighing the front of a quad proves nothing. I know what I feel and I trust the engineer at Elka, he does this for a living!

hey Jeff, maybe you should foward ELKA gabes responses, it might help them get there valving correct. I don't understand how a person who valves shocks can't explain this ?

Quoted Guy400..this might help further explain:
He's not weighing the quad at all. He's lifting up on the spindle and compressing the shock a given distance. If it took 80lbs. to compress the shock 1.5" by lifting directly on the spindle and then took 80lbs. again 31" away from the spindle this proves that the leverage applied to the shock terminates at the balljoints, not at the wheel. I can guarantee you that if Gabe removed his upper a-arm and did this experiment again you would then see a leverage advantage by lengthening the lower a-arm (or adding a piece of pipe). It seems as if most people here aren't seperating between the physics of a single lever application and a dual control arm application. I've made a simple drawing to illustrate the facts that Gabe is trying to relay. The blue line in both drawings is the shock. Figure 1 is a single lever. Point A is the pivot and point B is the end of the lever. The dotted line to point C is an extension (a piece of pipe slipped over the end of the lever or a greater offset wheel). In Figure 1 the mechanical advantage will increase with an increased distance to point C.

Figure 2 is obviously a dual control arm lever as run on our quads. Point A being the pivot (at the frame) and point B being our balljoints. In a dual control arm the leverage applied to the shock is terminated at point B. It terminates here because of it's attachment to the upper control arm via the spindle. Applying force to the dual control arms at point C will not change the leverage at the shock. There is a definite distinction between the physics of a single control arm and a dual control arm. This is a proven fact as stated in any mechanical engineering documentation regarding dual control arm suspension.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/pee0cad21743740cee28d3edce872b2ab/fb4dcba5.jpg

[RIjon]

Then why did you Ask if you already know all the answers ?

Beleive what you want guy .....you will not listen to anyone else anyway :rolleyes:

The boy is on a mission....http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/pullin%20out%20hair.gif

[INFANTRY RACING]

a wheel with more offset is going to soften the shocks dampening whille a wheel with less offset will harden the dampning

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by RIjon
Then why did you Ask if you already know all the answers ?

Beleive what you want guy .....you will not listen to anyone else anyway :rolleyes:


Lets back track you seem lost;) someone asked a question " Do offsets effect shock valving ? "

some said NO, some said YES

Gabe said NO and Provided diagrams, theorys, facts and reasoning along with a few other members, seems like this can be right

Jeff Who valves shocks, many members on the sites shocks. said YES, and said that he will get dynos from ELKA to prove it.

Jeff also made this statement:
"Set your bike up on a stand and take the wheel and hub off.....grab the front axle and try to compress the suspension.........pretty hard isn't it!
Now, take a 10 foot piece of pipe and slide it over the axle and pull up on the end of the pipe.........I bet you can bottom the shock out easily!"

Gabe proved this to be untrue

i just want to know why jeff says yes when others say no, is it wrong to ask someone to back up a statement they made, people ask me to do it all the time ;) , i feel that a person who does valving on shocks ought to be able to back this statement up with a little more then, yes just becuase it does.

get it

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by Rico
The boy is on a mission....http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/pullin%20out%20hair.gif

Im not taking sides im just trying to get the facts, seems to be a toss up "yes","no" , and im just trying to find the answer

[cdalejef]

Like I said, we were too busy to set it up on the dyno.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
Im not taking sides im just trying to get the facts, seems to be a toss up "yes","no" , and im just trying to find the answer

ill take elkas and jeffs answer rather than some experiment using a bathroom scale:eek2:

[QuadTrix6]

you guys are starting fights im looking for info :confused:

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by MOFO

If you disagree with what Jeff is saying, why not call the engineer's @ Elka?


Just did. :scary:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72374