CRF450 Timing Chain does NOT fit 400EX [Archive]

a1965gt

08-26-2003, 04:28 AM

I just recieved a new CRF450 timing chain from Service Honda. I checked the part number and it is correct but it does not fit. The link spacing is not correct for a 400EX. At first glance everything looked ok but it is a little bit off. If you wrap the chain completly (360 deg) around the cam gear the link pins will be directly above the teeth on the gear...1/2 tooth off!!!!!! :eek:

It would be possible to put the chain on and run it but I think it will cause excessive wear on the timing gears and chain. All that wear and fine metal particals going into the motor cant be good. :confused2

I would like to hear from some of the people that are running the 450 chain. How long have you been running them, have you torn down your engine since installing the chain, have you had any problems with it or your motor????:confused:

nakomis0

08-26-2003, 07:17 AM

I put my CRF450 cam chain on last week. It looked like it fit to me. I have about 3 hours ride time on the bike. The first hour was light, but the other 2 hours I was drag racing and basically beating the hell out of it and no problems.

I really didnt look at it to much, besides just the initial visual comparision when I recieved the chain.

Can you get a pic on here of what your talking about. I understand what your saying I would just like to see a comparision of the stock chain wrapped around the gear and the CRF chain wrapped around the gear.

jerry-89-250R

08-26-2003, 07:45 AM

i would like too know the answer too this also before i put mine back together, how does the chain look only 180 degrees on the cam sprocket? that's about all will ever touch it anyway

skemp

08-26-2003, 07:46 AM

If I remember correctly, the part numbers for the two chains are quite similar. I do not know the pitch of the CRF chain, but the sprocket only has two less teeth (36) than the EX chain (38). It seems to me that it would work just fine, but I haven't visually compared the two. I just ordered a couple from Honda, so I will compare them when I can get the two chains side by side.

UglyMotha™

08-26-2003, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by skemp
If I remember correctly, the part numbers for the two chains are quite similar. I do not know the pitch of the CRF chain, but the sprocket only has two less teeth (36) than the EX chain (38). It seems to me that it would work just fine, but I haven't visually compared the two. I just ordered a couple from Honda, so I will compare them when I can get the two chains side by side.

please give me a shout when ya do i was getting ready to order one but i'll wait until you give the ok :o

a1965gt

08-26-2003, 08:54 AM

When the 450 chain just hangs on the cam sprocket (about 180 deg of coverage) there is only a small amount of misalignment, barely visable.
When I wraped the stock chain around (360 deg) the cam sprocket the stock chain fit perfectly.
If I had to guess I would say the difference in link length between the two chains is about 0.1mm but that little bit adds up over several links. Plus the load will no longer be evenly distributed over all the teeth causing excessive wear.
I will try to take a picture tonight but will need help posting the picture in the morning.

Does anyone have a "heavy duty" chain from Sparks or one of the other suppliers. I would like to know if they are the same.

nakomis0

08-26-2003, 09:20 AM

If you wanna send the pic to me I can get it posted.... Nakomis0@aol.com

I'm also curious about the other manufactures heavy duty chains.

skemp

08-26-2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by UglyMotha™
please give me a shout when ya do i was getting ready to order one but i'll wait until you give the ok :o

Will do. :)

jerry-89-250R

08-27-2003, 06:07 AM

i'm sure there's a lot of us waiting too hear the answer too this, when you find out something post it "please"

a1965gt

08-27-2003, 06:16 AM

I sent the pictures to nakomis0 so he could post them for me.
In one picture the chain is just haning on the wheel, the missalignment is at both ends and hardly noticable.
In the secont picture at the starting point the teeth and chain are perfectly aligned but as the chain goes around the sprocket you can see how it gradualy gets missaligned.
I did play with it some more and found that I can stretch the chain onto the sprocket . It takes quite a bit of pressure but I can strech the chain around the sprocket so that all the teeth line up.
Im wondering now it the missalignment is just due to the chain being new. My old stock chain fits perfectly without having to stretch it around the sprocket but being a used chain it may have already stretched a bit????

jerry-89-250R

08-27-2003, 07:46 AM

i wondered if your were comparing a new chain and a old chain, there would be a difference there. Skemp is going too compare both new chains and that will tell us if they are different.

nakomis0

08-27-2003, 04:17 PM

I'm also thinking its because its a new chain... thats good reasoning. heres the pics...

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/343000-343999/343319_45_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/343000-343999/343319_46_full.jpg

sickmojave

08-27-2003, 04:27 PM

it looks like it don't fit :eek2:

F-16Guy

08-27-2003, 04:41 PM

Hmmm, I wonder how it meshes with the bottom gear?

08-27-2003, 05:27 PM

They need to be the same pitch or it wount work.

The easy way is to measure the chain from the center of the pins and the sprocket from the center of the teeth. Those dimensions are the pitch.

I would think with the amount of members using that chain we would have heard about problems if there were any but I am curious to see future posts on this.

One other thing I am thinking is if the orig chain sits lower or higher in the sprocket?

skemp

08-27-2003, 07:41 PM

It looks ok to me. Technically, the chain is never wrapped 360 degrees around the sprocket. I wouldn't doubt if Honda used the same style chain on many of their motors just to keep things simple. I will know when the chain comes in. Give me until next week to let you know. I just got notice that the chain shipped out today from Honda. :)

dhines

08-28-2003, 01:35 AM

I won't argue whether the fit is perfect or not but the CRF450 chain is the exact same chain being sold by aftermarket companies as a heavy-duty 400EX chain. I did a side-by-side comparison of the 450 chain and a "heavy-duty" one I got from Pro Fab ATV and they were identical.

Based on that, I'd say the 450 chain is good to go.

jerry-89-250R

08-28-2003, 01:54 AM

that first pic looks OK too me, that's all that will be in contact with the cam sprocket anyway, the 450F chain is made by Borg-Warner not honda that's why there so cheap, Skemp will know when he gets both chains, that's the only real way too compare "2 NEW chains", anybody out there with the heavy duty chain "who was it made by"?

skemp

09-03-2003, 03:14 PM

Well guys, I finally have the chain. It was being held at the post office because I wasn't home when they tried to deliver it and I just happened to go in there to mail a letter and the postman said he had a package for me. It is going to be a few days before I can compare the two chains, but already by looking at it, I think it will be just fine. I'll post the results when I have time after work.

UglyMotha™

09-04-2003, 01:09 AM

shaaawwweeet, keep us posted:cool:

a1965gt

09-04-2003, 07:27 AM

Well I finished rebuilding my motor last night. I went ahead and put in the 450 chain even though I still dont feel 100% confident in it. I figure after I have several hours on it I will pull the valve cover and inspect the cam gear for any abnormal wear.
I am probably being to critical of the fit but if skemp can compare the fit of a new stock chain to the 450 chain that would make me feel a whole lot better.
Thanks guys

skemp

09-04-2003, 11:43 AM

I am going to go start on that right now. I have a bit of time, hopefully I can get it done tonight. If not, tomorrow I will.

skemp

09-04-2003, 01:53 PM

It fits. :) It just looks like it isn't right, but even the stock chain sits high in the cam gear. Good thing I replaced it; I was on my 2nd stock cam chain and I found another broken link. That is the 2nd time I have found a broken link. Lucky me. I hadn't seen one personally before, but the CRF chain is much beefier than the stock chain. Both the plates and pins are a heavier steel and the chain is wider. I haven't run it yet, but don't expect any problems.

So anyway, Ugly; I give it my nod. :D Just don't forget to take out a bolt on the clutch cover and break it off. Hey, even motorheads make mistakes! ;)

UglyMotha™

09-04-2003, 02:14 PM

good news, thanks for the investigating skemp i'll have to get me one on order asap knew we could count on you :D

skemp

09-04-2003, 02:19 PM

Definitely beats the $100 the big guys want for a "Heavy Duty" cam chain. ;)

RIDER11X

09-04-2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by skemp
Definitely beats the $100 the big guys want for a "Heavy Duty" cam chain. ;)
No flame, but y'all better order a set of timing gears with those chains as they will wear funny. Pitch is not visible sometimes on the side on a small amount of teeth, but look where the rollers contact the teeth. You will see a diff.. :ermm:

09-04-2003, 07:38 PM

MIKE400EX

09-05-2003, 04:22 AM

The ratio would be the same as with most 4 strokes the cam turns at half the crank RPM.

09-05-2003, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by MIKE400EX
The ratio would be the same as with most 4 strokes the cam turns at half the crank RPM.

Well then it would make sense to change out the sprockets as well since they get worn from the old stretched out chains.

Just wanted to be "sure" there wasnt any diff in the set ups between the engines etc.

The440Exorcist

09-05-2003, 02:02 PM

Ok, I need this chain...what else will I need to along with it?

skemp

09-05-2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by RIDER11X
No flame, but y'all better order a set of timing gears with those chains as they will wear funny. Pitch is not visible sometimes on the side on a small amount of teeth, but look where the rollers contact the teeth. You will see a diff.. :ermm:

Been there done that. :) I put in new gears too. I really don't think this is going to cause any problems. Just don't come banging on my door if you do this and the chain jumps or causes damage. It wasn't made for the motor, so it isn't foolproof, but I feel more safe running this chain than the stock version by far.

TJ400EX

09-09-2003, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by skemp
Just don't forget to take out a bolt on the clutch cover and break it off. Hey, even motorheads make mistakes! ;)

Which bolt is it. I'm getting ready to put the HD chain in mine and didn't know if this bolt would stand out like a sore thumb or not.

Thanks,
Tim

F-16Guy

09-09-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by TJ400EX
Which bolt is it. I'm getting ready to put the HD chain in mine and didn't know if this bolt would stand out like a sore thumb or not.

Thanks,
Tim
I think that was an inside joke. There are no hidden bolts, just remove all the ones you can see, including the long one for the oil filter cover.

TJ400EX

09-09-2003, 02:59 PM

Way to mess with a weak mind! I couldn't figure out what the **** I was missing on that one. :) I'm usually better at sifting through the BS than this.

Thanks,
Tim

09-09-2003, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by F-16Guy
I think that was an inside joke. There are no hidden bolts, just remove all the ones you can see, including the long one for the oil filter cover.

I think that was Sarcasm at its best :)

Maybe he was suggesting not to break the bolt that he had and spend an afternoon trying to get it out of the case etc.

TJ400EX

09-09-2003, 03:17 PM

I just read my reply again. Boy, that sounded a little harsher than it was meant too. Hope I didn't come across wrong. I sure don't want to be the south end of a north bound horse. :)

Thanks,
Tim

skemp

09-09-2003, 07:04 PM

Yeah, you would think after doing doing this so many times I would remember to get the 6mm bolt behind the oil lines. :o There was about 1/8" sticking out so I twisted the rest of the bolt out with a pliers when I had the cover off. Not a big deal, but a pain in the *** nonetheless.

F-16Guy

09-09-2003, 07:09 PM

Skemp,
Your chain worked good, right? I'm rebuilding my buddy's bike and I ordered the CRF450 chain for his. His is a '99, so there's no way I was going to run the stock chain in it after doing everything else. Hope it works!

skemp

09-09-2003, 08:00 PM

Yeah, it is so far. I went and beat the piss out of the thing all day long after I put in the chain, opened it back up to take a look, and the chain and sprockets still looked like new.

09-09-2003, 09:23 PM

What have you guys been paying for the chain? and sprockets?

I need to be changing the chain soon and just want to get prepared mentally :)

F-16Guy

09-09-2003, 09:48 PM

Chain was only $27, sprocket couldn't be too much. Service Honda.

400exBro

12-21-2003, 10:21 AM

Bump!!!

Anyone have had problems yet with the crf timing chain???
if i get the crf chain, will i need new 400ex timing sprokets??

a1965gt

12-21-2003, 02:17 PM

The chain fits fine, I have been running it for a couple months now with no problems. I even have it apart right now (blown head gasket) and the chain and gears look fine.
You do not need to get new gears