416 not emough power

[2001 trx400ex]

i just broke in my wisco 11.2-1 416, i got R4 exhaust, hotcam, port and polish, new vavles with vavle job, bored the stock carb to 38mm, rev kit, K&N filter and jetted with choke removed, i also have 14t front sprocket, rapter tires on the back. I find it doesnt have enough power, i have 1 and a half hours of riding on it, will i get , more power as everything seats. If not what else can i do to get more power?

[EvilJester400EX]

Bump your front sprocket up to a 16 tooth, that is really taking away from your top end power. What size rear sprocket are you running?

just going back to stock will help.. Depending on your riding conditions you probably need to just change your gearing around..

[2001 trx400ex]

i ride mx tracks, i need the bottom end power, i dont have enough.

[EvilJester400EX]

I've got a stock motor and run 15-36 gearing with 18inch rear tires, that's plenty low end for me.

sounds like ya got your motor built for top-end....:macho

[2001 trx400ex]

is there any way i can get more power out of my 416

[Glamis400ex]

How much do you want to spend? Horsepower cost's money...how fast can you afford to go?:ermm:

You got a 426 still a 440, or you can stroke it. Like Rico said, maybe the quad was built for top end. Switch to a Hotcam stg. 1, or TC mx grind cam. Bump your piston comp. up to 12:1...there's lotsa ways dude...

Glamis

[2001 trx400ex]

i got a hotcam stage 1, and i dont want to run race gas and i was hoping i cou,d get more power out of some else not the compression. Everyone said that the power increase to 416 would make a guy happy but i am disappointed in it. It doesnt have a chance angainst a stock yfz450. What is the best grear ratio to run on a 416 for mx.

[RAPTORAZ]

In order for you to run with a YFZ450 you're gonna need what a YFZ already has. And that is 440cc's, a big cam, 12.1:1 compression, a big carb, and less weight. The YFZ is not unbeatable. But it'll take a well built EX to run with it.

[2001 trx400ex]

how well does ur 416 compete with one

[skemp]

Are you sure you have it running right?

I find it hard to believe that you are dissapointed after just having gone to a 416 with some of the bells and whistles. I know after just doing the bore, fairly mild 10.5:1 comp. and cam on mine, I was blown away by the power difference. I now have quite a bit more done to it and it rips. Tons and tons of torque, with a nice top end hit. I run 18" tires with 16/36 gearing, and it seems perfect everywhere I ride.

[JOEX]

Shouldn't a motor set up like that have a stage 2 cam:confused:

I also thought any piston over 10.8 needs a higher octane than pump gas?

Joe

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
how well does ur 416 compete with one


I have yet to race one with it. But from what I'm seeing on the NET, I think it would get spanked.

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by JOEX
Shouldn't a motor set up like that have a stage 2 cam:confused:

I also thought any piston over 10.8 needs a higher octane than pump gas?

Joe


It would definately be quicker/faster with a Stage II. But he's looking for more bottom end. And a Stage II would kill off some bottom in exchange for mid/top. The only real way to add more bottom is to pump up the compression and run race gas.

1 1/2 hrs is not enough rbeak in, i did just the 416 piston and it took a good 2hrs of riding for it to be fully broken in, it feels boggy and stuff til its broken in, and cam takes even longer to break in, just my piston alone gave me more bottom end

[2001 trx400ex]

Is it right that when i go down the road and i punch the throttle the front end just barely comes up when i am sitting on it..

[UglyMotha™]

mine takes little effort to carry the front wheels, but from your description it sounds like you built a top end bike cause it sounds identical to mine don't be affraid to rev the **** out of it cause it makes all it's power in the upper rpms mine hates to be lugged she just begs to be hammer down

[2001 trx400ex]

**** thats terrible i wanted bottom end, what can i do to make it more bottom end, my gearing is 14-38

[pnut420]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
Is it right that when i go down the road and i punch the throttle the front end just barely comes up when i am sitting on it..

I could get my stock 400 to wheelie in third sometimes and I could ride in second for over 100 yards, you should have plenty of power.

I rode my buddies 416 with 11.2:1 Ross with a Stage 2 hotcam and FCR carb, port and polish, K&N with lid removed, X-6 Exhaust, Rev kit and a couple other things. I never felt like I had to worry about bottom end the whole time I rode it, because with just half throttle it shot right up into the mid-top end, for the most part if you are riding aggressive you should be in the mid to top range most the time.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
**** thats terrible i wanted bottom end, what can i do to make it more bottom end, my gearing is 14-38


Look at my sig...same hill I used to bog out in 3rd gear with 20 inch Holeshots before the mod and new cam, I now freakin fly up the hill in the mid to high rpm range in 3rd gear with 22's. Dead start upshifting on the climb. :D

[2001 trx400ex]

u got that sweet grind on ur cam u were telling me about. Was that wiseco i got from you 11-1.

[JD400exrider]

What type of riding are you doing that you need soooo much low end. I aggree with ugly. Rev that bad boy! I am running the HRC cam which is a more of a mid - top end cam but does not loose much if any low end. Also running the FCR 39 carb. It climbs hills and trail rides great. Try rvining up a little more. Also 1 1/2 hours is not eneough time to judge how well the 416 will run. It is not even all the way broke in yet. I will tell you I did notice a big difference with the fcr 39 though. It will climb hills i used to climb in 1& 2 gear now in third.

[2001 trx400ex]

i rev the **** out of it on the track but i need to accelerate as fast is not faster than the dirtbikes and banshee's. Thats were they get ahead of me on the straight aways. It doesnt usually cost me a win but if i win i like to win big.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
u got that sweet grind on ur cam u were telling me about. Was that wiseco i got from you 11-1.

hey man, i didn't realize it was you...yeah, the piston was an 11:1. I don't know whats going on but that piston and cam should be doing better than what your implying.... It is a little early in the game though...

I am inclined to think this..

1- Your gearing is so low that on the track you are not utylizing the torque through the curve. Your flying through the gears and not pulling through them.

2-Jetting is not quite right or the carbs not breathing enough to rev out.

3-The real answer to what you need for the track is a cam with longer duration, ie, Sparks, HRC, Hotcam stage 2, etc. and that fcr 39 that johns got...as well as some gearing changes to match the new power curve.

And John...you are killing me with those posts...I gotta wait till the end of the freakin season for my carb back..:( probably blow this motor by then..lol

[2001 trx400ex]

i think the answer is the first one because all of the gears i just flry through as soon as i hit about 8 grand. I start in second and then as fast as my foot can move i am in fifth. What would be good gearing for this power.

[2001 trx400ex]

and the fish hooks are great.

[Regulator 250X]

Do you have an oversized header with your aftermarket exhaust? If not, getting an oversized header will help the low end out as long as you get it jetted right. Otherwise the gearing question is always a tough one. Just remember, going up or down one tooth in the front is equal to 4 teeth in the rear. Thats what i have heard atleast!

[2001 trx400ex]

mike how was 14/39 gearing working for 20" tires on the rear, how do you like your power and how long ago did you finish your 416.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
mike how was 14/39 gearing working for 20" tires on the rear, how do you like your power and how long ago did you finish your 416.

lol, glad ya like the lures...tell me how they work up that way.
I started using the 14/39 to run my 22's "before" I did the build. Did those gears to get by the resistance of the 22" tire. I guess the build is about 3 weeks or so.

O.K., with the 20's and I just put them on Monday, the quad is exactly like you describe yours...and is not "fun" to ride. It does however climb like crazy. But flies through the gears...too fast to be a practical choice for gearing.

Now with the new 416 build and the 22's. along with 14/39 the quad feels like a totally different motor than with the 20's. The larger 22's out back let the motor use its full curve. I think 14/39 is a great gearing for 22's. But now that the motor is built it's gonna have to change for the 20's

Having not had the new motor on the track with the 18's yet, can only guess. Would say a good place to start would be 15/36, It would be good to also do some switching and try a 16 up front till you find what works for you. maybe 16/38 or 16/37

[2001 trx400ex]

thanks mike and i sent u a pm about a shock spring question, any idea's on that.

[bmw500hp]

yes, definitely, will pm....

[skemp]

I missed that you were running a 14 tooth sprocket in front. That is killing your potential. I am assuming you are running 18" tires in back. If the MX tracks you ride are tight and twisty, I suggest 16/38 gears. If they are more open, with long stretches, try 16/36. You should have the motor to pull it. I run 16/36 and it is perfect for my riding style and conditions. Awesome acceleration with more than enough top end/speed. Try gearing higher and I think you will be a lot happier. :)

[pnut420]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
i rev the **** out of it on the track but i need to accelerate as fast is not faster than the dirtbikes and banshee's. Thats were they get ahead of me on the straight aways. It doesnt usually cost me a win but if i win i like to win big.

If you want to keep with dirtbikes, you better put some kind of thumper motor in there. The dirbikes out out alot more power than ours from the get go, and by the time yoy get done building ours, you might as well get that yz426 motor that someone is selling on here, now thats a good setup. I have $2500 into my 426 rebuild, sure I have a spare engine now, but I would have rather paid $1,000 more and had a YZ426

[2001 trx400ex]

i rode the yfz450 today and my 416 has twice as much snap to it then the 450 does. But top end it beats me.

[pnut420]

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
i rode the yfz450 today and my 416 has twice as much snap to it then the 450 does. But top end it beats me.

Thought you were saying you didnt have enough low end :confused:

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by pnut420
Thought you were saying you didnt have enough low end :confused:

yeah justin, I rode one too and that was my exact impression..I actually stalled it right on the line and thought it was me. The quad seems geared tall for the woods...My first thought is seems good for an aggresive a class woods rider or pro but not as easy to get the most of for the less aggresive rider when compared to the 416's.

Oh yeah, I am at 14/38 now with the 20's and really feel I will be the best for this engine and my terrain at 14/37. I would like to stop there for an ez front sprocket change up with the 18's for the track.

[2001 trx400ex]

i loose alot of power when my 416 fets warm after 10 min of riding, how can i keep more power inhot wheather.

[markeg192]

Try race gas to help keep it cool. I don't understand how you say you need more bottom end and then say you need to keep up with YFZs and Banshees. To beat those bikes you'll need power in the top.

[pnut420]

Originally posted by markeg192
Try race gas to help keep it cool. I don't understand how you say you need more bottom end and then say you need to keep up with YFZs and Banshees. To beat those bikes you'll need power in the top.

Thats what I was thinking :confused:

But to keep it cooler run race gas, alot of the times though the oil is hot and the only way to help cool that is to add a secondary oilcooler. Some people think an oversized oil tank does alot, but I dont think it does much, also do you have the air scoops on your quad? If not they are only like $30, I would get those first, then go from there, but 10 minutes isnt all that long to where it should loose power.

[BigThumper33]

I think a lot of this crap is in your head.

I run moto's in 105degree heat in the afternoon and don't feel much of a power lose at all. I've got close to the same setup as your running also...

If you want to keep up with yfz's then you need top end...not bottem... banshee's and yfz's have no bottom end...

I think you are geared WAY to low.

[pnut420]

Originally posted by BigThumper33
I think a lot of this crap is in your head.

I run moto's in 105degree heat in the afternoon and don't feel much of a power lose at all. I've got close to the same setup as your running also...

If you want to keep up with yfz's then you need top end...not bottem... banshee's and yfz's have no bottom end...

I think you are geared WAY to low.

Bingo! I ran my quad in 100 degree weather, I would let it idle and it would get hella hot, but it still Reved like a champ. Alot of people say things that are not so true. (Ever since liquid cooling came out, everyone thinks our quads run so hot they loose power). Sure the hotter it runs the more sluggish it is going to be, but not a night and day difference.

BUt get some airscoops, make sure you arent running lean, get an aftermarket cooler and you shouldnt loose power, the only way you should loose noticable power is when it is runnning lean and then running real hot.

[YZROOSTINYA]

put a exhaust, jet and air filter on the YFZ and you will see more snap.

It all bottled up in stock trim

[2001 trx400ex]

for starters in 35 degree wheather and having the quad reved up it is the difference between lifting it up in 5th easy as compared to a long ride it is hard to lift up in 5th. Cooling is needed and even liquid cooling looses some power at very hot teperatures.

I ment i want to keep up with the accelaration of a piped banshee on a track and yfz450 incase u missed that. I want to be geared low now so i out accelerate them.

Before you start flaming maybe you should read the whole post, and anyone who says after a long hard ride on a 416ex with no airscoops or hoodscoops or oil coolers that they dont lose power is horse****. and if you dont believe that do a drag race when the quad is cold aqainst a done up banshee and see how you do then go for a long hard ride and race it again with the same sercumstances and see how you do.

Originally posted by 2001 trx400ex
for starters in 35 degree wheather and having the quad reved up it is the difference between lifting it up in 5th easy as compared to a long ride it is hard to lift up in 5th. Cooling is needed and even liquid cooling looses some power at very hot teperatures.

I ment i want to keep up with the accelaration of a piped banshee on a track and yfz450 incase u missed that. I want to be geared low now so i out accelerate them.

Before you start flaming maybe you should read the whole post, and anyone who says after a long hard ride on a 416ex with no airscoops or hoodscoops or oil coolers that they dont lose power is horse****. and if you dont believe that do a drag race when the quad is cold aqainst a done up banshee and see how you do then go for a long hard ride and race it again with the same sercumstances and see how you do. i ahve air scoops...and personaly i could not feel a diference in power when i installed them...i ahve a 416 national with PLENTY of power on tap...plenty of low end for MX...and jsut enoguh topend for the striaghtaways....i run a 50/50 mix of race gas and 93..i could feel a noticable increase when switching to the mix...but you definatly have a problem with gearing if you tihnk your 416 does not ahve enough power...

[2001 trx400ex]

k thanks, powerwise i am just used of what a cr250 puts out and i just expected more from it.

[BigThumper33]

okay a cr250 makes like 45hp in stock trim. Its a freakin xr400! Give it a break!

Anyway, I'm curious, why do people say after an hour or so of hard riding they feel a power lose. Wouldn't a 400ex be up to max operating temp in like 10 minutes?? I mean, they don't just keep getting hotter and hotter...they would melt down if they did that.

I personally do not have any problems with shees on the track, and am yet to battle a 450. I race against power valved 265rs, 290 rs, 310rs, etc. They all have more motor than me, but I typically beat a lot of them. I think most of the people on this site need to stop spending all their savings on mods and start spending it on track practice fees...its the only way your going to get any faster....

I know most of the guys on here, myself included, have more machine than we can handle... sure maybe a shee will beat us to the corner, but whats your excuse for the shee making it out of the corner first? Just a thought...

[2001 trx400ex]

on a stock ex beating R's that is sweet u must be good at MX. I just ride MX ocasionally i mostly do freestyle off ramps and ****.

[loudvalves]

Have you thought about an eight discs clutch? I have a Sparks 416 (12.1) with porting and cam and mine is unbelievable. That is pretty much the only difference between mine and my brothers.

[MotoXC33]

I had my ex bumped up to a 416, and a couple other things look at my sig, Man it sucks, I can't even tell anything different. I run 14 , 39 sprockets. I also have 22" tires on the rear for XC. I'm droppin to 20"s on my next set. But for the money I spent on this $#@! I thought I could at least see something different.

[The440Exorcist]

Well, there's always the 440...I know I felt a difference when I installed mine & my cam...wow.

[lilpoppy]

Originally posted by MotoXC33
I had my ex bumped up to a 416, and a couple other things look at my sig, Man it sucks, I can't even tell anything different. I run 14 , 39 sprockets. I also have 22" tires on the rear for XC. I'm droppin to 20"s on my next set. But for the money I spent on this $#@! I thought I could at least see something different.


You must be a big dude then. If you did all of that which is almost exactily what I did to myne you should see a huge difference. I went from losing to raptors by about 5 lengths to beating them by like 3 on average. If you didn't get that kind of power gain then something is seriously wrong with your rebuild or maybe you are a bigger guy and you should have gone with a 440 for more torque.

[The440Exorcist]

One thing I have noticed is that people commonly believe that just boring a motor out will give you more low end or top end power. Where Boring a motor out gives you more power is largely depending on the cam/compression piston used. If you are looking for insane bottom end power I say go with an xr cam. Get a timing key, and maybe lighten the flywheel up a bit..that'll help you rev out faster in a race. Sorry if what I typed is confusing, but it is almost midnight here and I don't think the brain is working all that well.






Eric

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by MotoXC33
I had my ex bumped up to a 416, and a couple other things look at my sig, Man it sucks, I can't even tell anything different. I run 14 , 39 sprockets. I also have 22" tires on the rear for XC. I'm droppin to 20"s on my next set. But for the money I spent on this $#@! I thought I could at least see something different.

it mainly depends on where you want the power at. i personally would put in a more aggressive cam. however, you should definately gain torque with that setup. also, i like power up top and so i would not be using a 14 tooth up front for where i ride. i use 15/36 and it seems to run good. i noticed a nice gain with my 406 with 11:1 compression and stage 2 hotcam. it was nothing out of this world, but i didn't do a ton to the engine.