Rim strength..need answers ASAP! (auction)

[Pepto_Bismol]

I found a PAIR of OEM 400ex rear rims, brand new for about 200.00. I know they are like 200.00 a piece from a dealer. However, for less than 200.00 I can get a set of ITP rolled bead rims. My question, I only need one rim, but it seems I have to buy them in pairs so should I pay for the OEM rims, or pay about 60.00 less and get some .190 ITP rolled edge rims? I know OEM are strong, but are the ITP rims at least comparable? HELP please, my chance to buy the OEM rims end today!!!! ( both rims have the rolled edge). Please help from your experience. I ride in pretty rocky places at times, and jump alot!
I need help fast!.
Pepto :confused:

[86atc250r]

Forget the rolled edge wheels and get Douglas .190 wheels with welded on reinforcing rings.

From OMF they run about $95/each and are much stronger than both OEM and aftermarket rolled edge.

I agree with gabe 100% rims w/rings will hold up way longer than both types you mentioned and they look pretty cool too. I thought about gettin the beadlocks for the rears on my quad and choose to go with the rims with rings instead,,less money and I've never had a problem with bustin the bead off either.

[MOOCAZEN]

I BEG TO DIFFER THE NEW RIMS WITH THE NEW ROLLED BEAD ARE WAY STRONGER THAN THE REINFORCEMENT RINGS, ALSO, MUCH LIGHTER TOO, I HAVE FRIENDS THAT RACED THE BAJA, AND THEY STOOD UP MORE TO THE ABUSE THAN THE REINFORCEMENT WHEELS, GET THE ONES WITH THE ROLLED BEAD, LIGHTER TOO

[Pepto_Bismol]

If I decide on aftermarket, ITP or Douglass?

[MOOCAZEN]

DOUGLAS

[86atc250r]

Having smashed several sets of wheels (including rolled edge) myself in both MX and rocky trails I beg to differ.

I've been racing on my reinforced wheels for over a year now with great success. One event, I raced for about an hour and 20 min on a flat, the tire even debeaded on the last lap, I was riding hard enough that I still won the overall and the wheel survived great - while it did have some gouges from rocks, it did not bend. This was a cross country race with large rocks and a small MX course.

Rolled edge simply rolls the edge of the existing wheel to somewhat double up at the edge - reinforcing rings add approx 1.5" of thickness to the outer edge where the wheel is most as well as doubling the amount of material right at the bead.

Differences in weight are going to be negligible.

Pepto - Buy Douglas wheels over ITP - they're stronger.

[MOOCAZEN]

SEEING THAT ALMOST ALL RACERS IN THE BAJA SWITCHED OVER TO ROLLED BEAD, ONLY SOME STUCK TO THE REINFORCEMENT, AND SORRY TO SAY, BUT THERE AINT NOTHING COMPARED TO THE TERRAIN IN THE BAJA, BELEIVE ME ITS ONE OF A KIND, MAYBE YOUR RIGHT, I THINK ITS MORE PREFERENCE, BUT TO EACH HIS OWN

[cbrown400ex]

Gabe is it Douglas that much better than ITP? The reason I ask is that Marcums deals in ITP and can give the best deal on those. Congrats winning the overall championship in AHSCS. Did you get my email? Thanks , CJ

Not flamin or wanting to argue just tryin to understand this subject..:confused:

...Hey moocazen are you talkin about the rims with rings like the ones in the pic below on the rear???

I just can't imagen a rolled lip like stock rims would be stronger than these rings that are welded on..:huh
I've never road or much less seen the baja,,but a rock is a rock,,and I can't see a stock or aftermarket rolled bead bein stronger than any rim with these rings welded on..I've seen plenty of pics of rolled beads such as stock rims with bends in them but never have I seen a pic of a rim w/rings bent or broke for that matter..I'm not sayin your wrong but with both eyes open I can't see how rolled beads are stonger than a rim with rings..I'd trust the rings long over a rolled bead...how can the rolled bead be that much stonger??

I guess I'll email ITP and douglas and see what the manufactur's have to say about this they should know,,I'll post the results..:D

[MOOCAZEN]

HAVE YOU SEEN THE ROLLED BEAD RIMS, CHECK THEM OUT AND YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE FROM STOCK RIMS AND THE ROLLED BEAD ONES, THEY ARE HUGE, YA EMAIL THEM AND LET ME KNOW WHAT THEY SAY

[MOOCAZEN]

LIKE YOU SAID A ROCK IS A ROCK, IM SURE THE CROSS COUNTRY RACES ARE STREWN WITH MANY ROCK, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE OVER 100 MILES OF ROCKS, AND IM NOT JUST TALKING ABT SMALL ROCKS, BUT ROCKS SO BIG THAT WHEN MY BUDDY RAN IT HE WENT THROUGH 2 PROTECT SKID PLATES, WHICH ARE STAINLESS STEEL, WITHING ABT 300 MILES, THEY WERE LIKE PAPER AFTER THEY TOOK THEM OFF. I WISH YOU GUYS COULD COME DOWN HERE TO CHECK IT OUT, THESE DESERT RACES I THINK ARE THE HARSHEST ON BIKES, SO IF SOMETHING CAN WITHSTAND THOSE, I THINK THEY CAN PRETTY MUCH WITHSTAND WHATEVER, THATS MY OPINION THOUGH:p

[Pepto_Bismol]

Well, it seems that you've all convinced me that aftermarket rims can be as good as stockers, and cheaper (worth the effort). So I guess I'll let the OEM rims go. But I am split now over the Reinforced rings and the rolled edge. :(
I ride in the desert alot, and I like to go to the track for MX. But where I ride for now is rocky, but only some are large. I prefer to avoid these no matter what rims I get :) I appreciate all your input..keep it coming!
PS any idea where I can get Douglas for a decent price?
Pepto :cool:

I got mine from magic racing...

Update,,just got off the phone with ITP and they said by far hands down the rims with rings are much stronger than rolled edged rims. they said the rolled edge rims are just and upgrade to standard t-9 rims. I haven't gotten ahold of douglas but I'm sure they'll say the same thing..

[86atc250r]

I find it odd that serious desert racers wouldn't be using beadlocks...

Yes, I've seen rolled edge wheels. Stock 400EX and late model 250R (early 250R were not) are rolled edge, aftermarket rolled edge are very similar. Rolled edge means that, yes, the edge of the wheel is rolled in.

Personally, I've flattened rolled edge wheels on jumps such as this one:

http://home.earthlink.net/~gellett/robs/2.jpg

Rolled edge wheels are stronger than typical .190's, but I can't see them comparing to reinforced wheels or beadlocks, not with my experience anyhow.

Pepto - contact OMF for wheels.
http://www.omf-performance.com/

CBrown - Yes, I mailed you back, twice... I haven't been having trouble with anyone else getting my mails... From what I've read, seen and been told the Douglas are stronger. Supposedly they are heat treated and ITP is not.

Here's some comparisons of Douglas wheels:

Douglas "Ultimate" rolled edge:
http://www.douglaswheel.com/images/lil2944c.gif

Douglas "Ultimate" beadlock with billet center:
http://www.douglaswheel.com/images/lil2944b.gif

OMF/Douglas .190 reinforced:
http://www.quadshopatv.com/omf_wheels.jpg

[Pepto_Bismol]

Hey guys, thanks for all your help, it's been a real pain to find anything online. Your quick response has saved me from wasting my money, and I think I'm going to get ahold of OMF. Your timely responses are greatly appreciated. This is why I like being a member of EXRIDERS! :D
Pepto :cool:

[papaw]

hey pepto, i have a set of rolled itp's just sitting on my shelf in my garage.i don't think they are bent at all.i bought carbon fibers,won't need my itp's anymore.if interested i'll check for any bent spots and sell them cheap.if you want rings just buy the rings and have them welded on to the itp's......

[Pepto_Bismol]

Papaw, check those ITP's out and let me know what kinda of condition they are in. How old are they? I may be interested.! Thanks!
Pep:cool:

[Dave400ex]

Rico, Gabe, I was going to get the Billet Beadlock Rears and the Billet Rolled Lip Fronts. Since the Rolled Lip Fronts are not as strong as I thought they were, should I just get the Douglas Conventional Center Rims with Beadlocks all around? Heck that would be cheaper than the Billet Beadlock Rears and Billet Rolled Front. What do you think?

[papaw]

pepto,they are around a year old and i willcheck them out tonight.warriorman if your buying beadlocks you might as well buy the carbon fibers they are just as light as a conventional .190 and cost as much as a regular beadlock.i'have already chipped one and they replaced the beadlock and the outer portion that was broke for $30.very wise investment......

[kabd69667]

Originally posted by Rico
I got mine from magic racing...

Update,,just got off the phone with ITP and they said by far hands down the rims with rings are much stronger than rolled edged rims. they said the rolled edge rims are just and upgrade to standard t-9 rims. I haven't gotten ahold of douglas but I'm sure they'll say the same thing..
Rico's doing some field research...haha. Any company will say that their rim is the best. Who wouldn't?

[kid300ex]

Gabe, Could you post a picture of you're quad with the rims on them? or even the hole quad?

[Pepto_Bismol]

After careful consideration, and a whole lot of asking around, I decided to purchase the Douglas Red Lables with reinforcement rings from OMF for 189.00 total for the pair. According to Douglas, and the guys at OMF, the reinforced rings are stronger than standard rolled edge. I spoke with OMF for some length, and he explained to me a bit about rims...The way he explained how reinforcement rings are stronger makes a logical sense to me now. In any event, this is what they say and they deal with rims more than I ever will, so take it for what it is....Give em a call, real nice guys at OMF. Thanks for looking Papaw, mb you can sell em online here, or on Ebay, I'm sure there will be interest.

Again, thanks for your help!

Pep.:cool:

BTW, since I couldn't access the web site, I asked and OMF is not maintaining a web site anymore, so there is no www.omf-performance.com.
However, the phone # is 909-354-8272 out of California. And they only have 4 rims left in stock, and are looking at Mid to end of February in order to get those rims. They are backordered from Douglas. So if your looking for a pair....get some now! Later!

[Dave400ex]

Papaw, I thought about the Carbon Fiber Beadlocks, but they cost a lot more than the Douglas Beadlocks. I guess it will come down to how much money I want to spend.

Originally posted by kabd69667

Rico's doing some field research...haha. Any company will say that their rim is the best. Who wouldn't?


i didn't ask if their rim is better than douglas or whoever.

I asked if THEIR rolled edge rim is better than THEIR rim with rings. same company different type of rim,,comprede'

and kid300ex there's like 2 pics in this post of those rims..;)

[86atc250r]

Warriorman - yes, I'd suggest getting the better wheels with conventional centers. The billet center is only for looks & I've actually heard some reports of them breaking.

kid300ex -

Here's an old pic of my quad, much has been done since then, and it's currently under a complete rebuild - I'll post pics when I'm done.

http://home.earthlink.net/~gellett/images/elka/side.jpg

[Pepto_Bismol]

Hey 86atc250r, are those original 250R rims on the front of your EX ?
Pep:cool:

[86atc250r]

Yep, I use those as my "play/practice" wheels & tires. I have two sets of original 250R rears also, but they've all been wasted by bends on the inside edges...

[papaw]

warriorman,i don't know how much douglas beadlocks are but carbons are $190(rear)$175 (front)and they claim they will not bend.i haven't heard of any bending but they can crack.they replaced my cracked half of the rim and the actual beadlock for thirty bucks.will douglas or champion or anyone do that ?

[MOOCAZEN]

those guys at hiper are cool, i have all four and im taking them on a 3 day run of the baja, they told me to call them back to tell them how they worked out and since i got my fronts at k&k they are going to switch out my fronts for free and they will be sending me the new center for all four which incorporates one big nut instead of all four, easier removal, as long as i told people that they take care of there customers i was getting that, so its pretty good to drop some cheese on these babies, especially with all the warranty that the back up with , these are way better than any aluminum beadlock, bcuz remember, if you mess up a douglas or omf or itp beadlock, they aint replacing anything.Also a bonus, first year with carbons, everything is free, whatver you break, after that only 30 bucks , cant beat that.i had xplained that while putting on the front beadlock rings, a screw on each side, chewed the bolt in the rims, but they still sat perfect and are holding great, thats when tom or todd there said i was getting free fronts, so i wouldnt have to hassle, they rock and look sick!!! right papaw?

[Dave400ex]

I really like the Carbon Fiber Rims. That`s cool how Hiper will replace the Part that Cracks or Breaks. If I have the Money I will get them. I`m not sure if I will have that much money though. I`ll have to wait and see. If you had the Money to get Douglas Beadlocks, would you get them, or save for the Carbon Rims?

[MOOCAZEN]

GET THEM IF NOT JUST SAVE UP LIKE 20-30 BUCKS MORE FOR EACH RIMS AND GET THE CARBON, THEY ARE SWEET, ALOT MORE PRO'S ARE USING THEM NOW AND THEY'VE BEEN USED FOR A BAJA AND THE DAKAR RALLY RACE, SO THEY STAND UP TO ABUSE

[Pepto_Bismol]

Douglas Red labels only come in 10x9 or 9x8. The stock rims are 9x9. I ordered the 9x8. Why the two sizes? What's the difference( not just in size and weight, obviously) performance wise?

Pep:cool:

[Dave400ex]

MOOCAZEN, the Douglas Rims would be Brand New. I think I will just save and get the Carbon Fiber Beadlocks. I`m not really sure yet.

[papaw]

warrior man it'll be worth the wait definitely.pepto i think the difference will be unsprung weight,and with douglas you always get some nasty offset rims.make sure you specify if you don't want a funky offset.

I guess rim choice is all about the conditions you ride in. A set of carbon rims for the rear are gonna run ya like $360 bucks,,that's 4 douglas rims with rings,,If I go through 4 rims with rings,,I guess I need ta get my head checked or put tires on the rims..:D I'd like to have a set of carbon rims but I don't think I'm gonna bend, break, or tear up the ringed rims I have now with the type of riding I do. If I were to be doing something like say the baja 1000,,yes carbon would be worth it,,hands down. If your a weekend racer then rims with rings are gonna do the job perfectly and your not gonna bend them..unless you have a nasty nasty crash,,which would probably stop your racing for ever if you did bend the rims. Carbon rims are the best out,,but why waste another $90 on a rim when you can get 2 rims for the cost of 1 of them and it's gonna hold up just as long if your not running a 1000 mile race..IMO..:D :D

[papaw]

you got a good point rico,but i'm just too hard on rims and skins,especially hard core woods thrashing.......

[Dave400ex]

Rico does make some good points. I think for Woods Riding/Racing like Papaw said I would rather have the Carbon Beadlocks. Even if I got the Ringed Rims now and saved money, but then Bent both of them down the road, I would have to pay to get all new rims. With the Carbon Rims I could just fix the part that broke. The Carbon Rims would be the last set of rims I ever bought. So I would save money by getting the Carbon Rims because if I ever Bent a Ringed Rim I would have to pay full price again. Does this make sense?

If you bent 2 sets of ringed rims,,you need to go to NASA and have them develop a new material,,cuz I can't see anybody goin thru 2 sets of rims in one riding life..:huh Ask gabe how many ringed rims he's bent,,I don't know of anybody that has bent them,,but I'm not sayin they can't bend either,,but your hard on things if you destroy some of them things..

[Dave400ex]

If I don`t get the Carbon Beadlocks, I will most likely get Douglas Conventional Center Rims with Beadlocks. How does that sound? I think they should hold up forever.

[papaw]

i have a buddy with champion beadlocks and he bent a rear wheel this past summer.but i think it was a flat landing jump.the 9x8 champion dual lock is $194.carbon 9x9 duals are $190,hmmmmmmmmm.

[NJ300ex]

I don't think you guys get the point of having the carbon fiber rims. The point besides being very hard to break and you don't have to replace the whole thing is weight. They weigh only 6 pounds. A dual sided aluminum rim would probably weigh 15 pounds. You will get better suspension and engine performance with the less unsprung weight of the carbon fiber rims.

[86atc250r]

15lbs!???!! -- each??!!

Not in the world I'm from.... Well, maybe with the tires mounted.

Fact is, I'd be VERY surprised if the CF Beadlocks weigh less than the .190 reinforced...

Now when comparing beadlocks to beadlocks, the CF are quite a bit lighter.

[Pepto_Bismol]

This post has alot of replies that have very useful information. Each reply has some good stuff...and there are alot of replies! Thanks for all the great stuff!!! Mabey this might make it to FAQ for rim types and strength along with Extremes thread about carbon fiber rims..Good stuff!(can two thread be merged?)
BTW, I got my front OEM rim in, so here is my bent one that cuased me to start this whole rim thing!
Pep.:cool: