Honda May be Using an new OVAL type piston in new quad

[400exredrider]

it has been announced that Honda may use A Oval Piston in the New 440exr Quad the piston is high tech and uses 2 rods but its a single piston that is long 8 valves and 2 spark plugs....looks as if it may put out some power to me 8 valves!!!!!

[Martin Blair]

yeah and i have 3 balls

Originally posted by HN400exracer
yeah and i have 3 balls


lmao

[quadrcr87]

hey i could use your extra cause i only have one ball

[250x#93]

hmm:rolleyes:

[Ralph]

old news. amd o gpt ot comfirmed by a reliable source. not aloud to say who cause he signed papers and **** so he isnt aloud to talk about it. And it will also have 2 differant price tags:cool:

and yes u can quote me on that...

[Mxbubs]

I heard they stole it out of an UFO:eek:

[*FoX*KiD*]

I heard they stole it out of an UFO

HAHAHAHA good one!

[Pvt. Maggot]

and then i was going down the trail...and a hillybilly with no shes jumped out and tryed to steal mine so i.....wait...what was this about again? :huh



i hope they don't i wanna save up and build a crf450! :macho

Originally posted by HN400exracer
yeah and i have 3 balls tom green could use 1

[Glow Plug]

Who know's I'll belive it when i see it

[Flyin#3-1/2]

Originally posted by Glow Plug
Who know's I'll belive it when i see it

yep, i'll believe it when i see it...:ermm:

[Martin Blair]

y would the want 2? if its a 450 and a regular crf 450 y would it make a differense same displacement?

[exriderdude]

**cough** Dirtwheels **cough**

[400exredrider]

yeah guys its in a few mags where i seen it is ATV action go look if you have it.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by exriderdude
**cough** Dirtwheels **cough**

**cough cough**^DumbAs$^**cough cough**

it was ATV Sport actualy. and can u tell me wich magazines had those drawn pictures of the z400 and predator almost a year before it came out? hmm dirtwheels? so thats 2 points for dirtwheels there. OH yes, yfz450. DING 3points for dirtwheels.
and raptor! DING 4 points and im sure i fergot some...

so the total score is you ZERO, and dirtwheels 4:macho

[Natertot426ex]

Here is what I have heard just yesterday. THe new honda is Going to be a CRF450 with an aluminum frame and classified not as a sport quad but a race quad. They are going all out on this thing and not holding back on anything. It will be announced in October or November and if not then it will be anounced in march april time next year. I know everyone is saying I will beleive it when I see it but Oh well. also in 05 the z400's won't be made anymore they will be called the Z450's because they will have to build something to keep up with Yamaha and Honda by then. Bash all you want but this is what I have heard.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Natertot426ex
Bash all you want but this is what I have heard.





...you should hear some of the crazy chit I've been hearing!

[infantry317]

The rumor through a local pro is that honda is looking at a 450 & 650 model :confused2 we'll see.

[Bretmd94]

Originally posted by HN400exracer
y would the want 2? if its a 450 and a regular crf 450 y would it make a differense same displacement?

With the large surface area of the oval piston The stroke will probably be a lot smaller. This means revving at around 11-18 thousand RPM instead of 7-8 tops. It makes a lot more hp per cc also. The powerband is like a 2 stroke though.

Look around for articles on the Honda 750NR (i think thats it) motorcycle. They actually already produced an oval piston before as stated earlier. Not many bikes though, and they are spendy now.

[quadman21]

Honda designed the oval piston a LONG time ago. So it isn't that far fetched. As for what it will be and when, we will all have to wait. Rumors are entertaining to listen too. When it does finally come out, what ever it is, i'd like for all of us and read these old threads to laugh at ourselves and all of our "My uncle's cousin's wife know's a man who knows someone from Honda" rumors. However, I am eager and can't wait either! By the way, did I tell you guys that my buddy has an uncle who's friend.....:)

You know what i think you guys love the cock all you skeptics are fools!!! Why wouldnt they come out with a new quad i mean it has come form some reliable sources that it will be here soon you guys just like to argue about everything!!! Damn give me a break if you dont think its coming thats yuor business but you have nothing to back your case what so ever!!! So smile like a doughnut!!!:eek: :D :macho

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Keyser_Soze
You know what i think you guys love the cock all you skeptics are fools!!! Why wouldnt they come out with a new quad i mean it has come form some reliable sources that it will be here soon you guys just like to argue about everything!!! Damn give me a break if you dont think its coming thats yuor business but you have nothing to back your case what so ever!!! So smile like a doughnut!!!:eek: :D :macho



its funny cause i know it is coming out, if my source wouldnt get in trouble i would have told u all the details already, but right now all i can say is 2 price tags. and another thing HONDA DOES KNOW ABOUT EXRIDERS AND THE LISTEN TO WHAT WE SAY AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT;)

then I hope they see this & know that im dieing for a 750ex....please honda...

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Ralph
HONDA DOES KNOW ABOUT EXRIDERS AND THE LISTEN TO WHAT WE SAY AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT;) Well if Honda's listening send me the brand new sport/race quad for free. If it doesn't show up within a week of it's release on my doorstep than we'll know for sure that Honda doesn't pay attention to this board and they don't care what we want:D

(I'll take it in any color)

[400exBro]

Originally posted by Ralph
HONDA DOES KNOW ABOUT EXRIDERS AND THE LISTEN TO WHAT WE SAY AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT;)

then why has it taken so long for something to be released??

i am not saying that you are lieing, but if they did listen to us, i would think that it would have been released a little sooner... plus they will use only a fraction of our ideas, they still will build a "400ex" type quad... that will have more reliablity then power... probably will be a 450 (i sure hope so) and be able to take the yammy 450 stock for stock... and sit as low as the 250r and handle better and no reverse... and most important race ready for mx...

[Ralph]

Originally posted by 400exBro
then why has it taken so long for something to be released??


WHY does everyone like honda? Why do we laugh at that yamahas when their broken down on the side of the trail? Why can u take a honda for a lap on a track with your oil filter in backwards and not do any damage?

THEY MAKE THINGS TO LAST! THEY MAKE QUADS THAT WILL REMAIN POLULAR AND FUNCTIONARY for over 15 years! they cant make quads like this over night. IT takes lots of enginering, and time!

Lets take a look at a company who probably didnt test the product "HONDA STYLE"

Suzuki- z400, axles bend while doing wheelies. when crahsed head on against a 400ex the z400 is totaled. yet the 400ex had just a bent bumper. This is also the reason u can crack a gusseted z400 frame on a 10 foot double.

Yamaha- Raptor, transmissions are junk, thing sits way to tall, doesnt handle well. Maybe if yamhaha tested them more someone would have said: WOW this thing doesnt handle realy well, or omg i took it out got into 4th gear and the wheels locked up and i almost lost it... THE TRANNY MUST BE JUNK! or i took a turn on ice yet it still rolled cause it sits too high....

[Doibugu2]

I was very considering both the Raptor and the Z when I bought mine. I also did not have Exriders as a resource when I bought mine. So hands down the reason I bought my 400 is because of the reliabilty.

I also own a Civic and a Acrua.

[speedy400]

^very good point, I agree

[bongwater200]

Originally posted by 400exredrider
it has been announced that Honda may use A Oval Piston in the New 440exr Quad the piston is high tech and uses 2 rods but its a single piston that is long 8 valves and 2 spark plugs....looks as if it may put out some power to me 8 valves!!!!!

Honda has been using oval pistons for quite a few years in GP roadracing motorcycles. While it IS a good idea and makes a ton of horsepower, you oughta try to bore the cylinder for one!

LOL

[Bill Fuller]

My reliable source says that the 450 will be out in Sept/Oct will not be aluminium (atleast what was rode was not) kick start no reverse piggy back shocks with a woods version next year(magic button).Now I'm sure I'll hear some chit about this next one....300R 2 stroke to be released late 04 and produce until 06 I was told it was sitting beside the 450 that was tested.Watch for J.Jones to be on the 450 next season.

[Chef]

Originally posted by bongwater200
Honda has been using oval pistons for quite a few years in GP roadracing motorcycles. While it IS a good idea and makes a ton of horsepower, you oughta try to bore the cylinder for one!

LOL

Heh...get a grinder?:confused: :macho

[Rip_Tear]

It should be pretty sweet, I have a good idea what Honda is doing, I get a lot of info from sources... But nothing 100% confimed... No one can unless they are actually working on it...

With those pistons its better to just buy a new cylinder already bored, but I do agree hard as..... I dunno but hard!

[250x#93]

Hmm I don't think I would wanna bore that thing out:p It would be possible though;) Wit machinist and like 6 axis machines anythin is possible:D I am going to school to be a machinist, so I hope someday to make trick quad parts and bore engines and chit:devil: But I dunno if they are makin oval cylinders:ermm:

[250x#93]

HAHA i've been practici already:eek:

[TeamC&GRacer]

anyones source give them an idea of the price range? if there is going to be two price tags does that mean a mx one and a XC one? Will it be cheaper than the yamaha?

[crap-banshee32]

oval? hmmmm

[quadfamily]

good point Bongwater. Does anyone know exactly how to bore one of those oval cylinders?

[Castor-426ex]

custom liners


plus you can mill anything

[kicken250x]

Originally posted by HN400exracer
yeah and i have 3 balls


ya know...the sad part about that is... i really do...:p uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nnneeevvveeerrr mmmiiinnnddd...........

haha jake i hope he didnt have no shes! damn yammis...:devil:

[Ralph]

U TAKE THE DIAMETER OF THE OVAL, OR RADIUS OF EACH END, AND USE THE SIZE U WANT(.80 OVER OR WHATEVER U WANT) THEN U BORE OUT EACH END ON THE CENTER OF THE CIRCLE AND THEN USE THE SAME SIZE IN THE MIDDLE AND IT WOULD MAKE A OVAL...


***DONT MIND ME IF I AM WRONG BUT I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THESE BORE MACHINES WORK AND IT IS JUST MY EDUCATED GUESS...***

[bongwater200]

Originally posted by quadfamily
good point Bongwater. Does anyone know exactly how to bore one of those oval cylinders?


Well..... I don't have the same RELIABLE SOURCES that all of these 14-15 year-olds have, but if I had to guess I'd say that the "cylinder" is cast in the oval shape and coated with a nikasil or similar lining. If they release such an item, it very likely WILL NOT be something that you can bore out. Just like with most motocross bikes..... if you stick the cylinder bad enough, you'll have to buy a whole new cylinder or at least have the sleeve replaced.

[Ralph]

THIS RELIABLE SOURCE EVERYONE ELSE KNOWS. bUT IVE BEEN HERE FOR MORE THAN A MONTH UNLIKE THIS BONGWATER CHARECTER SO PEOPLE TELL ME ****...

[Fast250EX]

If it can be made, it can be bored.;)

[hondafox440]

Hey, I say we all stop throwing 50 million different rumors around and wait for a real reliable source to say something, i.e. Honda..

But about boring it, you obviously couldn't do it traditionally, but I'm sure a Bridgeport could handle the task.

I think the oval piston is a good idea, for the amount of valve surface area you can achieve, and because you can run an OHC with no rocker arms, thus less reciprocating and revolving mass in the cam train, so rev ceilings should be through the roof. I read up a little on the NR750, and I am amazed at how simple a design the oval piston is, yet so functional.

[Jay300ex]

That's an interesting concept, an oval cylinder. Boring is meant to machine a HOLE, not an oval. So it would require a special machine. Or my guess would be they press a new cylinder in. Sort of like the cylinder is 2 peices, the cylinder which has the coolant circulating throughout it and such and the actual cylinder, which is like a cast iron sleeve that is just pressed in. And when it is worn badly or whatever you press it out and press a new one in But even that seems unlikely because it would have to be perfectly done. But it's just a guess.


Jay

[hondafox440]

Well all liquid cooled cylinders are a "2 piece" design, with the combustion chamber, and the water jacket. And why are you people so worried about boring it anyways? :blah: . Any decent machinist with a mill should be able to do it.

[Chef]

I would be more worried about finding a bigger piston than boring it. Pistons would cost some serious money, I would think?

[hondafox440]

I would imagine they cost more than traditional pistons. Forged would probably be a pretty penny, but I don't think cast would be too outrageous.

[Castor-426ex]

next i hear the triangular piston is gonna be good

i dunno though:ermm:

[Martin Blair]

Originally posted by Guy400
Well if Honda's listening send me the brand new sport/race quad for free. If it doesn't show up within a week of it's release on my doorstep than we'll know for sure that Honda doesn't pay attention to this board and they don't care what we want:D

(I'll take it in any color)

yeah honda send me and email i will give you my adress if you do lissen make your prices competitive like a full race bike for under 6k not 7 like yamaha tht would be great, and i know it dont cost probably half that to build one.

[400exredrider]

if they do use this oval piston im shure they will call it a 450 look at the new yami its a 439 and it gets called a 450 plus im shure this oval piston and 8 valves will crank out plenty of power.heh maybe it eill be like a raptor.put on a pipe and gain 9-10 HP nver know this was in a mag that i read said it would be called a 440exR R prolly meaning Race it was a short dinky artice in the front that had a pic of it.another thing it would require alot mor matenance think 2 rods 2 spark plugs 8 valves...its definatly a high tech motor dunno if it would revv very fast tho cause if the big piston but 2 rods makes up for that just my 2 cents guys:D

[250x#93]

Any decent machinist with a mill should be able to do it.

Yeah but I guarantee it would make them scratch there heads a little bit

[400exBro]

i doubt honda will use the 8 valve oval piston design, becuase why build 2 engines?? why not use the crf 450 engine and work with that, using the "440exr" enigne would cost honda too much and honda wants to sell the new atv for a resonable price...

plus i can see this engine weighing considerably more then the crf engine, and if honda wants to compete with the yzf450 in everything then the engine will weigh to much... we will probably see a crf 450 with kick start and mx stuff based for mx raceing and one for the xc racing and normal riding, which will have the lower price tag...

i can't see honda using that big of engine and aluminum frame, honda is worried about reliablity and still be able to beat that yzf... these rumors are getting to become non realistic, come on 8 valves in a single cylinder,,, i know it can be done but is it worth it?? when we can use a crf engine with the 4 or 5 valve sohc and high comp engine.... it will weigh less and produce near same amount of power...

[hondafox440]

i can't see honda using that big of engine and aluminum frame, honda is worried about reliablity and still be able to beat that yzf... these rumors are getting to become non realistic, come on 8 valves in a single cylinder,,, i know it can be done but is it worth it?? when we can use a crf engine with the 4 or 5 valve sohc and high comp engine.... it will weigh less and produce near same amount of power...


8 valves makes sense in an oval piston engine. The whole theory in ports is to keep the size of each intake port small for low end power, but to have the maximum number of port surface area (multiple ports) for more top end power. It affects the speed at which the gas/air enters the cylinder. Faster is better.

In the oval engine, the valves would be lined up directly down the middle (longest possible configuration), with the camshaft right above it. This was the camshaft can actuate each valve with the lobe like in a DOHC engine, but since there is only one cam, rev ceilings would be higher. It makes sense.

The CRF is 4 valves, because frankly there is no benefit to that fifth valve right in the middle. Only Yamaha and Mazda have figured out how that 3rd little intake valve makes the engine better than a 4 valve head. And the CRF is not high compression anyways.

And you are mistaken about the oval piston engine making the same power as a traditional engine. The oval design allows the engine to rev much higher, and it produces massive amounts of power. That NR750 V4 oval piston street bike produced 150bHP, which means it put about 130HP to the ground. For comparison, I watched an RC51 (1000cc V-Twin, Honda's race street bike) with Yoshi pipes dyno out at 124HP at the wheel.

[Ralph]

Honda doesnt wantg to sell the crf because it is a very high maintenance engine and they dont want joe shmoe buying one, riding the piss out of it, never change the oil. have it break and then give honda a bad name...

[bongwater200]

Originally posted by Ralph
Honda doesnt wantg to sell the crf because it is a very high maintenance engine and they dont want joe shmoe buying one, riding the piss out of it, never change the oil. have it break and then give honda a bad name...


No..... HONDA doesn't release anything HIGH performance anymore because they don't want some JOE SCHMOE to go out and dismember him/herself on the SOB and then sue the living **** out of them!!!

[excess]

I say wait till september at the annual motorcycle show and then we talk. Plus I haven't seen a 2004 lineup brochure either, possible becuase of the new model coming out this year. I wouldn't doubt that it will be in showrooms by october, sometime after the show.

[quadman21]

A lot of interesting theorys here. I do agree with Bongwater about Honda being timid of loosing their but again. They've been timid ever since the ban of three wheelers. I kinda feel like they'll pull the old 250X to 300EX stunt again on us. Just think, the 250r is STILL the best quad ever made and the 400EXs are still dominating the Zs at the track. Polaris who? Watch it be a 440EX. But everyone's ideas would be sweet too.

[400exBro]

Originally posted by hondafox440
8 valves makes sense in an oval piston engine. The whole theory in ports is to keep the size of each intake port small for low end power, but to have the maximum number of port surface area (multiple ports) for more top end power. It affects the speed at which the gas/air enters the cylinder. Faster is better.

In the oval engine, the valves would be lined up directly down the middle (longest possible configuration), with the camshaft right above it. This was the camshaft can actuate each valve with the lobe like in a DOHC engine, but since there is only one cam, rev ceilings would be higher. It makes sense.



i hear what you are saying... but i just don't see honda making it, it doesn't make sense... all the engine they used in the atv models so far were from dirt bike engines, or based some what close to it(sport models at least like the 250r and 400ex) and i don't see honda changing the way they build atv's, they will bring some sort of 440 or 450 out on the market... but i can see it more being based on the crf 450, becuase it is already being built, this way it will cost less time and money desinging a new engine... they will probably beef up the crf engine so it doesn't have to be maintane as much as the dirt bike...

i think a lot of companies are realizing that it is cheapier to use one engine in 2 different bikes... like killing 2 birds with one stone, it is an added bouns... Suzuki, yamaha etc... all used a dirt bike engine that is being manufactored to this date, or was... banshee and the blaster, i believe, all came from prevouis street bikes..

i hope that maybe they will come out with this oval engine, but i just don't see it happening, i even think that the oval engine is going to weigh quite a bit more then the regular cylinder engine... also the engine will be quite long and would be sticking put quite far if they used 8 valves( i could be wrong but that is how i see it)..
if they aim for a low weight they probably are going to use the crf based engine( sources have told me this that is based on crf engine) and why not, this engine is real strong, lots of torque and power and still a lot smoother power band then the yzf engines with the dohc( i actually prefer that over the sohc)...

[NTPracing22]

Theres a lot of talk going on about this new quad. some is true, some is just talk.

i woudln't keep your mind set towards an aluminum frame, but be ready to learn how to kick forward;)

i've talked to people who have seen it, not just weekend warriors, but a company who is already making a graphic kit for it.

all you guys have red blood...keep it that way

[400exredrider]

heres what the article says Quote " Remember how wild the computer controlled hydromechanical tranny on the honda rubicon 500 4x4 was when it came outa couple years ago? well how about the automotive style tranny on the new rincon 650 4x4? Well< Honda likes to shock the world so dont exoect something traditional when big red decides the 400ex cut it any longer as a high performance machine we migth even see something as wild as an eight valve twin spark plug oval piston 440cc single this design allows a motor to breath like a twin while retaining some of the simplicity, narrowness and power characteristics of a single" end quote :D

[motoxak]

any pics of this "oval piston"?

[400exBro]

that is it i am done trying to agrue with the rest of you guys... i will believe it when i see it...

i just hope it is a lot more then the yzf450.... if it is i am sticking to honda... hopefully they will use the same bolt pattern and use some what similar re end to the 400ex so my ex axle will fit as well...

[Fast250EX]

All I know is that when Honda comes out with a kickass quad, they need a sticker on it that says, "Listen dipsh*t, don't be a dumbass on this quad you little bast*rd because with this little sticky, you can't sue us so na-na-na-na-boo-boo!!:p !" or something to that extent so they won't be such wimps.

But then again, I don't wanna see Honda end up like Cannondale because of some idiot seeing how many times it will flip if he turns it hard at full throttle, then breaks his neck and sues Honda.

I do agree arguing at this point is rather pointless but it is fun to watch everyones opinions and there "sources.":p

[motoxak]

right on... lol

[excess]

I really don't see the law as a problem, you could easily kill yourself on a blaster as you could on the YFZ.

ATVs' can be dangerous but that all depends on the driver and the actions he takes on the bike. It's your responsibility to be responsible not theirs. Your gonna tell me that Honda's worried about being sued? They produce street bikes that go over 3 times as fast and cause more deaths, whats to be worried about a little 450cc 4 wheeler?

I don't think honda will be usuing the oval piston. It would not be worth there time because it is very expensive to produce. The NR750 street bike retailed for $60,000. I didnt see any pics in the thread of the oval piston so here are a couple.

This is the NR750 engine

Heres the piston by itself.

[Honda4trax250x]

Originally posted by QuadMX18
Heres the piston by itself.

looks interesting................but isnt that just more weight???

[Ralph]

no its more cc

[Castor-426ex]

thats sweet....if one rod breaks....you can still do donuts in your neighbors yard

[Honda4trax250x]

Originally posted by Castor-426ex
thats sweet....if one rod breaks....you can still do donuts in your neighbors yard

lmao:p

[Chef]

Any horsepower or torque or rev specs on the NR750?

Originally posted by Chef
Any horsepower or torque or rev specs on the NR750?

130 HP @ 14,000 RPM stock.
150 HP @ 15,500 RPM with light tuning.

And with some work you can get a lot more. Very easy to get a lot of HP out of.

[slosh13]

ANybody have a pic of this new designed oval piston?

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by slosh13
ANybody have a pic of this new designed oval piston?


its not that new. i believe that nr750 is from abt 91'. also there are 2 pics from quadmx18 a couple of replys up.

[Honda4trax250x]

thats a pretty nice looking bike

[400exredrider]

the pics were a page back bro