if you could get a 450 aftermarket frame what brand would you get?

[Sporttrax400ex]

??

[Paul400ex2002]

you forgot lonestar, that's what i'm gonna be building mine on.

[anywhereEx]

I voted houser because I have had some of his parts before but the Arens frame seems promising as long as we see it by 2004

[AL81]

WALSH

[exriderdude]

Originally posted by AL81
WALSH


Walsh would be my first choice, ofcourse;)


but my second choice would definitly be LRD;)

[Nausty]

well if price didn't matter i'd go with walsh but all in all I think i'd go with arens just cuz I can't see spending that much money. I hope to have my quad one day be turned into a crf. I just got a entire rear end and now i'm gonna start working for a long travel front end then after that I will pry save a lot more money and get the arens crf/ex frame and then when I get even more money i'll get the motor. lol, I think it might be a while but I wanna do it right.

[Paul400ex2002]

hey nausty, you should do what i'm gonna do man, save up and buy the bike first so you can play around on it until you can get the frame. I'm getting my LT front end ordered next week so it should be pretty sick, also getting a elka rebuilt rear and a lsr +4 axle. :D now all i need is a +1 1/4 swinger.

How you liken your new rear end?

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

I'd go with any of them except Houser...never did like them.

[racerx573]

Originally posted by AL81
WALSH

What he said.

[Dave400ex]

Walsh or Laeger.

[OutlawEX]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
Walsh or Laeger.

Good Choice. Dont see y people are voting LRD over laegers. Laegers has been around longer with positve results. If ur voting fo rthe LRD alumminum frame well Laegers makes one too:blah:

[Nausty]

Originally posted by Paul400ex2002
hey nausty, you should do what i'm gonna do man, save up and buy the bike first so you can play around on it until you can get the frame. I'm getting my LT front end ordered next week so it should be pretty sick, also getting a elka rebuilt rear and a lsr +4 axle. :D now all i need is a +1 1/4 swinger.

How you liken your new rear end?

yeah that sounds like a good idea too.:D

Still havn't rode on my rear end because i'm waiting on the carrier still.:mad:

[Dave400ex]

Laeger Aluminum Frame with the T-Pin and CR500 setup would be nice...

[Tommy 17]

laeger or walsh frame...

they both use 500 links and 250r geometery...

when ur building a 450f doint' go cheap and buy std rear ends and fronts... when ur payin over 10,000$ do it right the 1st time

only problem is if u order one now... u should have it by next race season:p

the laeger aluminum frame is lrd, if u can afford it dont go with arens i dont think its gonan stand up like walsh and im wondering if its really chromoly for such a cheap price , i like my houser stuff and i thinkt here a good company id shoot for houser or walsh, ive heard bad things about those lrd frames:scary:


i myself will be going arens because i have so much money in my ex and cant get it back so this winter i should be building a rpm,houser, lonestar , arens 450f:eek:

[Brandon54321]

MY buddy has a Herrmann Racing crf450 full rolling Chassis.
LOOKs ands handles awesome
check them out www.herrmannracing.com

[jst]

It would have to be the WALSH,it has the upper left frame rail that is removable for easier motor install/remove.

[Jnine]

Hello guys:

In response to the person who questions what our frames are made from and why they are cheaper, here are the answers.

Ours are cheaper because we manufacture them by different manufacturing practices. According to their own published statements in Dirt Wheels a few years back, it takes those guys almost 40 hours of cutting, machining, bending, and welding to make one frame. The good part about that is that they are able to make changes on the fly, and can constantly be working on 1 of them. The bad part is it is not NEARLY as efficient for manufacturing.

Here is what we do.. We make them in large production runs, - kind of like the factories. That takes out most of the production costs, and our robot takes out almost all of the welding time. In fact, it takes almost as long to put the parts in the fixture as it does to weld it. That means it can be sold cheaper. The bad news is that it takes a lot of machining, cutting, bending etc. before you can build the first one. We have 152 parts in each 250R frame, and they all have to be perfect before you can build the first one. That's the down side.

As for strength, we are all using 4130 tubing, (At least all the builders I know of) but we are the only ones using a couple "super alloys" in places only they will work. Never doubt the strength of our frames. Cannondale used them in their testing over anything else, and when Dirt Wheels did a frame test in the June 2000 issue, one of the others cracked after 7 rides while ours ran the Baja 1000, won the Nevada 2000 rally, and ran several other desert races. That frame had over 6000 miles on it and then it was sold, still without a crack! That was our standard motocross frame we sell to everyone else. In fact, we only make 1 version of the 250R frame, I didn't even know they were doing an article until guys started getting their issue and calling me about it. It was actually a CT racing project, and Dirt Wheels did the shootout with them.

Here is the bottom line... I think all of the major frame guys Laeger, LSR, Roll, Walsh are using good material and we all have ways we like to do things. I like some of their ideas, and some I do not, but I'm sure they could say the same thing about my stuff. That's just builder preference. Here is what I watch out for... I know there are a few frame makers who like to put gussetts and cross tubes everywhere, and I do NOT agree with this for an engineering reason. It can be overdone, and it will hurt reliability. Another thing I look for is weight. Some of the frames on the market are REALLY heavy. That is because they use a very thick wall tube, which in most cases does help strength, but it takes a lot of power to pull it around, and it is simply overkill. Also, the company that bought LRD makes the Aluminum Laeger frame also. They just have an arrangement to use the name. Here's a tidbit for you. I did the tubing design on the LRD 400EX & Raptor pipe 2 years ago.. (And you thought I was only a frame guy)

Anyway, I hope that answer some of your questions. By the way, very soon you will see the new EX & CRF frame on Bens EXriders project quad.

Here is something to remember... Don't EVER equate cost with quality. Especially in this business! They are not necessarily related. Also, be careful on these posts. Lots of guys post opinions about parts they have never owned, and in some cases even seen. Ask questions before buying anything.

Talk to you later!

[Fleshwound]

that frame you speak of with 6000+ miles on it is still going strong. Its up here in Canada, one of our top pros in running it. Justin Petker.

[forum]

That last post was me. Forgot to switch users. sorry to say but i wouldn't run hermman for free. my opinion.

[Jnine]

I had heard it was in Canada. Someday I should get it back from him on some kind of trade in. We could use it as a display item.

[bmw500hp]

Jnine...

Just a quickie to compliment one of most informative posts on manufacturing theory to date.

In regards to the marketing of quad frames or any other part or service that has to with a man "winning" or "owning" the so called BEST is often linked to the HIGHEST PRICE! Almost as influential as the winning sponsored rider.

Many riders, myself included, equate price to quality! The thought "if it costs that much, it must be the best" is age old and a very potent marketing tool.

If we were to examine journal advertisement, the technical information in your recent post could not in any effective way be condensed and used to market your products. This is the type of knowledge usually found in industry symposia. Something none of us will normally attend.

It is good to have you as a site sponsor john, and I for one hope to read similar posts as to "what makes arens frames the best".

In regard to to the above, this site may very well be the media of choice to do just what you have done in the above post...and you have made your points to at least to 1000 riders in the next 24 hours.

Perhaps if I continue reading your posts, I will be convinced to buy that new John Arens "Icarian" series frame.

Originally posted by Jnine
Hello guys:

In response to the person who questions what our frames are made from and why they are cheaper, here are the answers.

Ours are cheaper because we manufacture them by different manufacturing practices. According to their own published statements in Dirt Wheels a few years back, it takes those guys almost 40 hours of cutting, machining, bending, and welding to make one frame. The good part about that is that they are able to make changes on the fly, and can constantly be working on 1 of them. The bad part is it is not NEARLY as efficient for manufacturing.

Here is what we do.. We make them in large production runs, - kind of like the factories. That takes out most of the production costs, and our robot takes out almost all of the welding time. In fact, it takes almost as long to put the parts in the fixture as it does to weld it. That means it can be sold cheaper. The bad news is that it takes a lot of machining, cutting, bending etc. before you can build the first one. We have 152 parts in each 250R frame, and they all have to be perfect before you can build the first one. That's the down side.

As for strength, we are all using 4130 tubing, (At least all the builders I know of) but we are the only ones using a couple "super alloys" in places only they will work. Never doubt the strength of our frames. Cannondale used them in their testing over anything else, and when Dirt Wheels did a frame test in the June 2000 issue, one of the others cracked after 7 rides while ours ran the Baja 1000, won the Nevada 2000 rally, and ran several other desert races. That frame had over 6000 miles on it and then it was sold, still without a crack! That was our standard motocross frame we sell to everyone else. In fact, we only make 1 version of the 250R frame, I didn't even know they were doing an article until guys started getting their issue and calling me about it. It was actually a CT racing project, and Dirt Wheels did the shootout with them.

Here is the bottom line... I think all of the major frame guys Laeger, LSR, Roll, Walsh are using good material and we all have ways we like to do things. I like some of their ideas, and some I do not, but I'm sure they could say the same thing about my stuff. That's just builder preference. Here is what I watch out for... I know there are a few frame makers who like to put gussetts and cross tubes everywhere, and I do NOT agree with this for an engineering reason. It can be overdone, and it will hurt reliability. Another thing I look for is weight. Some of the frames on the market are REALLY heavy. That is because they use a very thick wall tube, which in most cases does help strength, but it takes a lot of power to pull it around, and it is simply overkill. Also, the company that bought LRD makes the Aluminum Laeger frame also. They just have an arrangement to use the name. Here's a tidbit for you. I did the tubing design on the LRD 400EX & Raptor pipe 2 years ago.. (And you thought I was only a frame guy)

Anyway, I hope that answer some of your questions. By the way, very soon you will see the new EX & CRF frame on Bens EXriders project quad.

Here is something to remember... Don't EVER equate cost with quality. Especially in this business! They are not necessarily related. Also, be careful on these posts. Lots of guys post opinions about parts they have never owned, and in some cases even seen. Ask questions before buying anything.

Talk to you later!




thats good to hear, do you guys stand behind your stuff? say i bought one of your frames and i go out and race a couple times and i find a crack or it doesnt handle right, will you guys do anything about that? thats the reason i stay away from lsr and go towards rpm/houser stuff but im interested in this new frame

[forum]

its been through a few people up here. atleast three that i know of.. I doubt he'll want to sell it. If your serious I can talk to him. Your best bet would be to give him another 250r frame and... SOme of your other products. I doubt he'd do a straight up trade since the frame hes already got is working perfect. And it would have to be in the winter months when hes got time to switch all the stuff over. His name is Justin Petker.

[bongwater200]

Originally posted by freeride132
thats good to hear, do you guys stand behind your stuff? say i bought one of your frames and i go out and race a couple times and i find a crack or it doesnt handle right, will you guys do anything about that? thats the reason i stay away from lsr and go towards rpm/houser stuff but im interested in this new frame


If you crack it, your issues are with your shocks, more than likely! If it doesn't handle right, its a setup issue! Thats like saying "will you warranty this frame if I don't win my first race out on it in the pro class?"

[Jnine]

It will handle just like your stock frame, but will be a little more rigid because of the material (And a H--l of a lot more durable), and it will be a little bit lighter. There won't be any surprises.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Jnine
It will handle just like your stock frame, but will be a little more rigid because of the material (And a H--l of a lot more durable), and it will be a little bit lighter. There won't be any surprises.

im giving you fair warning....when you get the frames done....if you dont sell me one im coming to your shop and handing out an arse whoopin:macho :D lmfao

and will getting one bare be a problem?

[lil400exman]

i think my bike might be arens built:macho :o

[jlhughes750]

I'm telling u this Arens guy seems like a real class act!!!!! I have never seen Doug Roll on here giving info out or any other chassis builder for that matter!!!! I was convinced a few months ago but never got off my arse to do it, but TODAY i will call and order my new Arens R frame, talk to u soon John!!!!


BTW------ Gibson,Roll,Herrmann,Laeger,Houser,PRP,LSR?????do any of these guys have Engineering degrees?? i think not!!!!!!! Now i know experience can sometimes win over education, but that only works for Roll and Laeger....what do these other guys have, one of them just owns a parts dealer and doesnot even race, another had a machine shop and said i think i can make those!!!! he don't race either, doesnot even ride!!!!! I will buy products and promote products from now on for people who can impress me with there thoerys and knowledge. I do not mean to offend anyone i'm just sick of screwing around with stuff.

later, J

[Jnine]

That's no problem getting you either the 250R or the EX/CRF frame. We're making another 100. You can still drive down if you want to sometime however.

We do send out a lot of them bare, or as we like to call them, "Nude". I just like the sound of that better!! LOL... Lots of guys get them bare and then put on their own color.

Talk to you later!

[Pappy]

thats cool...roadtrip:D i better pre pay or ill be broke when i leave there:ermm:

any scheduled release dates:confused:

[jlhughes750]

Pappy, i'm driving u bring the Beers', no wait i'll bring the Yeungling, i don't care for your Coors...hahahaha


Whats the wait right now on the R frames???????

[400EXrider#91]

LRD or WALSH

[Dave400ex]

I can't wait to see one of these EX/CRF frames when they are all done. I'm also interested in seeing the new front end that John is working on. You ever get the Swingarms done?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 400EXrider#91
LRD or WALSH

what makes them better then houser or arens:confused: just curious:)

[Dave400ex]

I haven't been hearing to many good things about the LRD either...