Ok, I'm confused about +0 vs. +1 arms...

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

I plan to buy my LT front end within a month and I'm having a terrible time choosing a-arms. Everyone says +0 foward is the way to go. Thats cool and all but why do most companies make their arms +1 forward? Roll, JRD, Burgard, Gibson, ASR, blah blah....they all make their arms +1 foward...whats the deal with that?

[Pappy]

burgard's are +0 unless you order them +1

[trx400ex]

I have had both and i like the plus 1s better

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by trx400ex
I have had both and i like the plus 1s better

a choice is cool, tell him about the benefits of each Pappy, so he get confidence to order...

Originally posted by RiPPiNiTuP7
I plan to buy my LT front end within a month and I'm having a terrible time choosing a-arms. Everyone says +0 foward is the way to go. Thats cool and all but why do most companies make their arms +1 forward? Roll, JRD, Burgard, Gibson, ASR, blah blah....they all make their arms +1 foward...whats the deal with that?

Are they plus 3's? I think If you get plus threes and wider you want to start lengthining your wheelbase (so its still good in the whoops). + 1 forwards also help you get better traction and make the nose lighter. I think this info should be correct if not some one help me out :cool:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by bmw500hp
a choice is cool, tell him about the benefits of each Pappy, so he get confidence to order...

i wish i could:(

on my old 400 i have +1 forward arms....and it handles awesome. my +0 arms sre good too....but for some reason the old one corners better:confused: i dunno if it has anything to do with it or not...could be other variables involved.

but according to arens...plus 1 forward is a nono because the 400ex frame geometry has a +1 over the R chassis and is not needed. not needed maybe but i wouldnt pass up a set of arms just because they are +1 forward:p

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

Originally posted by Pappy
but according to arens...plus 1 forward is a nono because the 400ex frame geometry has a +1 over the R chassis and is not needed. not needed maybe but i wouldnt pass up a set of arms just because they are +1 forward:p

See, thats what bugs me. I heard from alot of respectable people to stick with +0 arms, but then why are alot of the a-arm companies making their arms +1? I would really like more info on this subject. Buying LT +3 Arms is no easy purchase for a 17 year old, so I want to make sure I get the right stuff.

[Chanman420q]

i heard it was already +1 stock. And you should only get +1 forward if you have a 1 1/4 longer swing arm. So it keeps it leveled out. And as far as making the nose lighter?? how? its pushing the weight forward... thats gunna make the nose drop even faster when u jump.

Get the +3's

[trx400ex]

Along time ago EVERYONE said to get plus 1 then i think it was john arens who said it was not need then most guy jumped on the plus 0 bandwagon.....what quadmx18 said sounds correct to me, the wider it is the more you need to lengthen it out for the rough stuff....maybe plus one was already built into the frame like john said, but that doesnt mean that another plus one on the aarm is going to hurt anything, i dont know, but i love my plus one aarms and plus one out swingarm, most guys 400exs will wheelie easily without trying, where mine on a start it will never wheelie if i dont want it to.. i dont know if it makes the front lighter or heaveir. it feels heavier to me which is a good thing because most quads i ride want to nose up in the air if your not careful

[boogiechile]

The wheel base on a stock 400ex is 48.4 inches, if you put on a 1 1/4 swing arm it is now about 49 3/4 inches. If you make it 50 inches wide it is wider than it is long, this is not neccesarily a good thing. adding plus 1 forward will make the length 50 3/4. At least it is now longer than it is wide.

Another thing is that the weight balance of a 400 ex is not all that bad for handling but it will wheelie easy when you start adding HP to the engine. Adding length to the swing arm makes the weight shift to the frt and now it does not wheelie as easy. and longer means it tracks better and holds a line better at high speed. But now the weight bias is shifted to the frt and the cornering and other handling is affected. Now if you add plus 1 a arms you almost balance the weight bias back like stock because you have shifted the weight back to the rear almost as much as you did to the frt with swing arm. (they are only a 1/4 inch different). The quad is now even longer which helps against wheelies and longer to track better ( can you say "faster whoops"). It is also at least a little longer than it is wide and still not too long to turn good.

as for saying the 400ex is plus one already. That makes no sinse to me. stock is stock. It may be plus one inches longer than a 250r but that doesn't make it plus one. the weight bias of a 250r is totaly different than a 400ex because the are different. In case you haven't noticed one has a two stroke and the other a 4 stroke and there are other differences. So a plus one from and r may be needed just to keep the wieght bias where Honda wants it. The question is did honda get it right or not. If they did then if you extend the rear you need to do the frt. If not, well then you have to find what you need to get the handling you want.

You can put a bathroom scale under one wheel and block up under the other wheels to the same height has the scale. get on your quad and record the weight. move the scale and blocks to weigh it at each wheel. about the same weight at all wheels is usually good for handling. If the frt is heavier you need plus somthing forward on the a arms.

[QuadTrix6]

going +1 on a 400ex will make the nose lighter, you are changing the geometry and exending the bike fwd will lighten the nose. i believe quad041 went +1 fwd and disliked it. i would stick with +0 but im not sure if LT setup would be different i run +2+0 with 16inch shocks and love the way it handle on the floor and in the air, maybe if you PM john arens he can clarify this he is a smart guy..goodluck

[Pappy]

Originally posted by boogiechile


as for saying the 400ex is plus one already. That makes no sinse to me. stock is stock. It may be plus one inches longer than a 250r but that doesn't make it plus one. the weight bias of a 250r is totaly different than a 400ex because the are different. In case you haven't noticed one has a two stroke and the other a 4 stroke and there are other differences. So a plus one from and r may be needed just to keep the wieght bias where Honda wants it. The question is did honda get it right or not. If they did then if you extend the rear you need to do the frt. If not, well then you have to find what you need to get the handling you want.



youll have to take that up with john arens....i just ride the thing:p but what i was saying is that the 400ex frame was designed so that plus + on the a arms isnt needed. and as far as a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke....thier different:confused: man new one one me;)

[dbsbl1]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
going +1 on a 400ex will make the nose lighter, you are changing the geometry and exending the bike fwd will lighten the nose.

By pushing the front wheels forward, you're also pushing the center of gravity of the bike forward. If you were to try to balance the quad on a pole that was laid across the bottom of the quad while stock and then again with the +1 arms, you'd have to move the stick towards the front to make the bike balance with the new arms as compared to stock.

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by dbsbl1
By pushing the front wheels forward, you're also pushing the center of gravity of the bike forward. If you were to try to balance the quad on a pole that was laid across the bottom of the quad while stock and then again with the +1 arms, you'd have to move the stick towards the front to make the bike balance with the new arms as compared to stock.

You would have to move the stick back. If u have 40 pounds dead center and then u move the a arms 100 inches farward now all that weight is in the rear making the front lighter. same with just plus 1 a arms. ;)

[dbsbl1]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
You would have to move the stick back. If u have 40 pounds dead center and then u move the a arms 100 inches farward now all that weight is in the rear making the front lighter. same with just plus 1 a arms. ;)

I'm glad you ride 'em and don't design 'em:rolleyes:

[Pappy]

less filling....tastes great:ermm:

[dbsbl1]

Originally posted by Pappy
less filling....tastes great:ermm:

No Miller cat fight girls?

[Chef]

Originally posted by dbsbl1
I'm glad you ride 'em and don't design 'em:rolleyes:

You obviously arent understanding a whole lot about this thread. Think of the motor as the center of weight in the 400EX Chassis. Look at the top picture of my 400EX. Is the motor closer to the front wheels or the rear wheels? Now look at the second one, is it closer to the front wheels or the rear wheels? Which swingarm do you think will move more weight to the rear tires? Obviously the shorter one, because it in effect moves the engine around in the square made by the tires, without even having to change the motor mounts. Pretty simple...

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by dbsbl1
I'm glad you ride 'em and don't design 'em:rolleyes:

:huh

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

So in short...whats the better route to go? I do plan to get a +1 1/4 swingarm, and +3 arms...just not sure if I should get some that go forward?

I'd say leave it at +0 forward. I bought + 1/2 inch foward and I did notice a difference but I don't think I'd ever go +1. The +1/2 inch benefits more in XC racing than MX I'd have to say..:)

[crap-banshee32]

the +1 forward is for better handling!!!

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

:confused2

Yes, no, yes no....which is it, lmao.

[OutlawEX]

Originally posted by RiPPiNiTuP7
:confused2

Yes, no, yes no....which is it, lmao.

NO:o

[trx400ex]

YES:o

[Pappy]

maybe:D

Well just about all chassis companies,,laeger, houser, lone star, etc all make +0 arms for the 400ex by default. So I'd say they know alot more about the ergonomics of the chassis more than any of us..:cool:

As John arens stated in a thread before..going out up front and out back will eventually make your quad's tires almost an even square which in turn makes for a very chitty ride...:ermm:

[trx400ex]

if you cant decide just meet in the middle and get plus 1/2:D

[Chef]

Originally posted by Rico

As John arens stated in a thread before..going out up front and out back will eventually make your quad's tires almost an even square which in turn makes for a very chitty ride...:ermm:

Mine isn't an even square...its wider than it is long.:eek:

[dbsbl1]

Originally posted by Chef
You obviously arent understanding a whole lot about this thread.

You're right, I obviously know nothing about physics or dynamics..

[QuadTrix6]

BOTTOM LINE....

+3,+1 a arms and +1 or +1 1/4 swingarm - that way you are longer than you are wide so its ok in the whoops and you will have the same weight balance

or

+2,+0 with stock swingarm length

[MtnEX]

Who in this thread is MX and who is XC?


I am starting to think it is just not as cut and dried as folks decided it was.

I am starting to notice that some manufacturers make their arms for other models +forward and don't even mention it.

I think they do that for those models because it works better and they know it and don't want the flack.

What do you think?