Before you bash your shocks ...

[BigAl]

I stole this post from an MX board, so when you read forks, think front shocks.

People get more excited about Brand names than setting things up right for themselves. The sag numbers should also be 3" and 3/4 for a stock EX, since they only have about 9" total travel.
Just trying to help some of you guys out.


Ok,here is what you do.
Set your sag right.You need about an inch of free sag(bike off stand no rider) and 4 inches race sag(rider on bike,no brakes on).
If the spring is wrong you won't get these figures to work.Set the free sag right then get on bike.If you sag just 3 inches the spring is to stiff.5 inches of sag then its to soft.
Now open the clickers on the top of the shock all the way.If there is a high and low speed open both of those fully.Full soft.This adjustment is really just a gimmick,a bandade.It makes the bike harsh and kicks around when you try to stiffen the shock with this adjustment.
Same thing on the forks.Open the compression clicker full open or full soft.Also open the rebound clicker on the forks.It should be almost full open all the time.I run my forks as fast as they will go.If you slow the rebound on the forks the bike will shake the steering head and gett scarry at high speed.
All that is left is the rebound adjustment on the shock.You want a fast rebound here but not so fast its out of control.How do I explain this?
Lets see.Push down on a big luxury car rear bumper.Bounce it.That is what you want.It needs to snap up but not so fast the shock tops out.
A lot of riders think when the bike kicks that the rebound is to fast and they slow it more only to make it worse.95% of the time it was to slow to begin with.
Always try a faster rebound when your bike kicks around when trying to accel out of a choppy corner.

[bmw500hp]

Big Al...

It's a pleasure to read something freaking positive! I can't speak for anyone else but I for one would like to go this topic in detail.

Right now shock setup and weight distribution are some things I for one have not heard enough about...

We seem to spend too much time arguing brand than imrpoving ride....again! hope to hear more on the topic of "setup". :D

[300exOH]

Originally posted by bmw500hp
Big Al...

It's a pleasure to read something freaking positive! I can't speak for anyone else but I for one would like to go this topic in detail.

Right now shock setup and weight distribution are some things I for one have not heard enough about...

We seem to spend too much time arguing brand than imrpoving ride....again! hope to hear more on the topic of "setup". :D

I agree. I'm still working the bugs out of mine and I adjusted my preload stiffer today and it stopped trying to buck me. It was starting to hurt. I haven't had any real time on it since it's been non-stop rain here:(
Good post:)

how do u measure sag????

[RytM1]

Originally posted by 93 300ex
how do u measure sag????
You have to measure the suspension travel from fully extended, to compressed. This is a two person job. First, fully extend the suspension, and measure between two consistent, fixed points (i.e. top and bottom shock mounts, if you can reach them). Then, sit on the quad, and compress the suspension. Just sit on it, don't bounce it or jump up and down on it. Measure between the same two points you used earlier. This is your sag. If you are having problems reaching the rear shock mounts for example, use two points that would remain consistent, don't meausre using body panels, because those may flex when you sit on it. You may be able to use the top ot the axle, to the rear edge of your airbox for example. This is how it is done on sportbikes, so if anyone has any other info on how to do it on ATV's, please chime in. I'm assuming it's pretty much the same.

[BigAl]

For measuring rear sag, I like to measure from the tire, straight up to the fender. I know its a body panel but as long as you pay attention, and hit the same spot every time it should be consistent. You want to be sure and measure straight up , and measure, actual wheel or axle movement, not the swingarm or subframe, because the leverage will give you small readings.

For static sag , pick up on the grab bar, until the suspension tops out, then let it settle gently to its natural spot. Then bounce up and down on the grab bar, then let the quad ssttle again. If the differnce between these two measurements is very much, you may have binding linkagew or pivots, that should be fixed before your suspension will ever work.

[Pappy]

ive seen zracer doe sthis many times....


but now maybe someone can explain the proper way to set the rest of the shocks up:ermm: like rebound...compression etc.

[toby400ex]

I dont get why you cant measure sag by the grab bar to the ground, or just fender to top of tire. I would think measuring shock mounts wouldnt work, since the shocks doesnt have 9 inches of shaft travel, so how would you get 4 inches of sag from measuring that way.:confused:

[BigAl]

Toby, I think you should measure from the grab bar to the ground, or fender to tire.

There is a thread at www.motodrive.com that I'm getting this off of, it is a bike site but I know a couple of guys over there, and I like to read some of the stuff. But I will keep stealing the good stuff and putting it here. Here is some more about sag and proper springs.


By Hillbilly:
On the shock spring.If its to soft you will have to add X amount of prload to get your 4 inches of sag.Then when you get off the bike to check the free sag it has the shock topped out because you had to add so much preload to get your 4 inches of race sag.
If the spring is to stiff.Then when you set the 4 inches of race sag and get off the bike it will be sagging more than the 1 inch you want.
Thats about the best I can explain the way to determine the right spring for the shock.

[BigAl]

Here are a few things that were posted about the Rebound clickers.


Its easiest to start at ONE end of the adjustment.And full closed aint the end.
Start at full open,then you know the better ride lies toward the only direction to go.
Ride it.Don't ride it wide damn open the 1st lap.
Ride to learn something.Then start slowing rebound on the shock and riding.Ride over accel bumps time and time again.You'll go past the sweet spot.Learn where it is for that certain timing of bumps.It changes as bumps spread out or get closer as to the type soil.

If you accel out of a choppy turn and the wheel tracks a few bumps then kicks the rebound is probably slow.It is packing.It's not getting fully extended between bumps.
If the bike kicks right off the first bump then maybe rebound is to fast OR,and here is where it gets tricky,the compression damping is to stiff.But wait!,you've got that full open,can't change it anymore in that direction without revale so you asume it the rebound to fast so you slow it down a click or 2 and see.

[BigAl]

I don't really know what to suggest on the compression adjustment, besides this below. If any body else has something to offer, please bring it on.


You want the plushest ride you can get and not dig in frame rails.If you tuning for the 2 big hits per lap then you need to get stronger legs and take those 2 hits because the time lost holding on to a stiff bike the rest of the lap is gonna get you beat ever time.

[Doibugu2]

All right what about this scenerio.

You have a steep washed out downhill and then a quick turn to the left. So when I go down it, it really compress the shock, mostly because most of the weight of the quad is on the front right corner.

With very plush shocks the quad wants to roll over becuase the amount of the give in the front end. Should I stiffen up the shocks?

[BigAl]

I don't think you should tune your shocks for just one corner or section of the track/trail.

But and this is a big one, I am trying to learn here too, so don't believe everything I type. LOL!

[Scottydawg]

This is a little off the subject, but it sounds like you might have
some info for me.

I ride a 300 ex, hard recreational riding. Mostly mountain trails
and fire roads. My 3 year old stock shocks SUCK!
The rear bottoms bad off jumps and the fronts are just there.

Is there anything I can do besides spending about $1000
for custom shocks. Can the stocks be rebuilt or tuned-up
at all?
Are there any less expensive upgrades out there?

:confused2

[BigAl]

You can't rebuild yours, but you can get Works all the way around for about $700.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by Scottydawg
This is a little off the subject, but it sounds like you might have
some info for me.

I ride a 300 ex, hard recreational riding. Mostly mountain trails
and fire roads. My 3 year old stock shocks SUCK!
The rear bottoms bad off jumps and the fronts are just there.

Is there anything I can do besides spending about $1000
for custom shocks. Can the stocks be rebuilt or tuned-up
at all?
Are there any less expensive upgrades out there?


Dude...consider developing your skills and dedication to finding used parts....when someone is young and cash isn't as available. You need to do this....learn your values, make calls and offers in your circumstance you are correct..is not a good decision to blow that kind of coin on suspension. If you already know all this, cool! do it...in the end..you can have more good stuff and more coin in pocket as well....start by posting in want ads....

Also, what about used 400ex arms and some nice take offs...

Wow I cant believe I missed this thread, because its a damn good one and we dont have to be bashed with the brand loyalty problems.

Now I am not a suspension pro by any means but from the motovation of knowing I can get a better ride than I currently have (or had) I have learned a few things and created even more questions.

It seems that the people who seriously know how to properly set up an atv's suspension are tight lipped about this subject due to looking for an advantage on the race track or something, and I am not sure but it does seem like it.

A member (predertor36 I belive or something like that) had started a excelent thread called suspension 101, and though it touched on some excelent set up info it was never completed.

One thing I keep hearing over and over is how an atv suspension is not the same as a dirt bike and more like a car or truck etc due to the extra wheels.

I had set up a few dirt bikes in the past and was always concerned with the sag numbers but I hear that they are not as important on an atv, and that the ride height measurements are the numbers to look at. I am not 100% agreed on this as of yet and maybe because these measurements are related but I can understand how the ride heights can affect handling and traction on a atv.

It would be great if we could get some real professional input on this subject but it doesnt appear it will happen. I have wondered if this is more due to the average riders lack of knowledge on suspension and the much too popular problem of looking for an easy fix. This is not like picking a tire and no one can just tell you where to set up your machine without measurements and rider feed back, and since this complicates things extrememly it may scare away some of the pro's.

I guess for now its trial and error and try to gain as much knowledge as possible and over time you should be able to dial it in better.

Some web sites have good info on this stuff and a couple of the ones I have found both informative and maybe even a little consfusing are Custom Axis, Mx-tech, Duncan and a few others but the suspension 101 thread here was about to be the best.

Sorry for the length. :)