Honda's answer to the YZF

[ILGNCC400EX]

I'm betting that most of you guys "N gals" are to young to remember the Sue happy 80's Honda got the worst of the deal on the lawsuits.........:eek2: I'm really surprised that they stuck their neck out with the 400ex:ermm:


And now with CSP sharpening their claws again,along with the ENVIROMENTAL WACKO'S i'm bettin if honda had one close to be released probaly won't do anything until after all this Bull is over.


P.s I REALLY hope that i am WRONG!:confused2

[GNCC#829]

I HOPE you are wrong too.:(

[muff]

i found out that they're releasing these nice machines :D better grab one while you can :p :eek2:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p9cfd8e7f2165fd8ecdf7a52b01db3e84/fc52d248.jpg

[250rpilot]

i actually have to agree, i think honda will wait till this cpsc chit goes down before they lose their *** again.

[forum]

thats the one thing i dont like about honda. there wusies in that respect. Not like yammaha!! keepin the banshee around, only two stroke sport quads, Realeasing the largest displacment sport atv, And now producing the only race bread quad ever. gotta love the guts they have.

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by forum
thats the one thing i dont like about honda. there wusies in that respect. Not like yammaha!! keepin the banshee around, only two stroke sport quads, Realeasing the largest displacment sport atv, And now producing the only race bread quad ever. gotta love the guts they have.

Race bread quad? What about the cannondale. Look how that turned out. These companies are on this planet to make money, not cater to the 1500 or 2000 hardcore racers. They don't make money unless they can sell a ton of machines.

[Carl Nevins]

i talked to jeremiah jones at a race in casey il the week before they had an atva national there, and he said that he was going to run pro production next year on either a new yamaha that was supposed to debut on the internet soon or ride a new HONDA that are coming out in september.That was all he said he could say about them except that he road the honda and said it was fast. Just Wait

[jerry-89-250R]

i talked too a mechanic for a pro-rider at the nationals at muddy creek a couple weeks ago, he said yamaha is bringing out a 450 shortly "they did", also said honda will have their 450F out by the end of the year, and suzuki is bringing out a 500f in 2005, honda doesn't get in a hurry, just look how long the yamaha 4-stroke mx-ers were out before honda released their's, they have a 250F that should have been out last year, not sure if it's available yet,what can we do but wait?

[Pappy]

honda wasnt the first on 4 wheels....but when they did release a quad to compete with the suki it made quite an impact;) im not sure if they can pull that off again....but i wouldnt bet against them:o

[310Rduner]

one question guys..

doesnt it piss anyone else off that they still make 2 stroke dirtbieks but they cant make a new 2stroke quad?

they cant use the excuse of it being too dangerous either. cause i can imagine a 500lb Kfx700 would be just a little bit more dangerous than a lightweight 2 stroke?

IMO theyre pussies for this.. they would sell so many bikes if they just did it..

i dont know what differences there are but i cant imagine the 2 stroke dirtbikes like the Cr250 are any less polluting than anything else..but they still use it as an excuse against making it in quads.

also wont they have to stop making them in or modify them to agree with the new pollutant levels that all bikes and quads have to pass come 2005?

[racerx573]

Honda released their answer to the YFZ about 17 years ago..
:eek2:

[cjpoole1]

Originally posted by racerx573
Honda released their answer to the YFZ about 17 years ago..
:eek2:
A bone stock R probably will not compare ;)

[nacs400ex]

I will take a bone stock R over that Yamaha:D

[DEAL]

The sport is alot bigger than it was in the late 80's . they are going to have a hell of alot harder time getting all these crazy laws in place as before.

[roostin_dale]

i dont really care what happens...i just hope honda acts and they act soon(prefer a big bore 4-stroke)

The only thing honda is waiting for is to have exhausted the current inventory of 400ex's since the introduction of new model would reduce the sales to levels even lower than the sad numbers they are selling now.

I doubt that they will scrap these plans etc due to a cspc investigation primarilly on younger riders and banning sales of larger quads to them.

Funny thing is "we" mostly think of all this as it would affect the sport etc and bet your last dollar Honda is only thinking about getting that last dollar.

Yea guys this is big business. :D

[modracer5]

i was told that the magic month for release will be september and it would be a 450 based quad for sure. normaly i would dismiss a rumor about this quad, cause i am sick of hearing bout it but who i heard it from is what makes me think. i was told that it was tested by Tim Farr at Echeconnee in Georgia a few months ago. i heard this from Donny "The Bulldog" Banks. He owns echeconnie and Paradise off road parks as well as the largest cycle shop in middle Georgia. He is also a former gnc mx champ. he knows his stuff. I had given up on honda and gone to him this weekend after our local races to be put on the list for a new yamaha as he will only be gitting 3 of the new yamahas and he convinced me to wait on the new honda. i am not tring to start anything , only hope to help any of you guys to make a descion as to what to do. Ed

[Fast250EX]

I hope Honda comes out with the new quad soon. After that you will see a lot of 400EX's for sale cheap. I need to upgrade from my little auto-clutch 229.:rolleyes:

I am interested to see what Honda has cooked up this time. Especially what it will look like. I would like to see a new 250R style machine. Honda moved the 250X to a 300EX so maybe they will make the '89 250R into a '04 300R? That would be great and funny as hell. Then would be the time for some serious payback.

Too bad those enviromentalist bast*rds have their head so far up a deers ***** they don't know what the hell is going on. I bet that not a single one of those guys rides a bike everywhere they go.

Its funny how the same guys that hate 2-stroke ATV's will go to a dirtbike race and enjoy or go to a NASCAR race and think nothing of the pollution being put into the air. Heck, they probably even smoke a pack a day.

If someone feels inclined to walk everywhere they go and wipe their *** with a maple leaf and talk about how they think 2 stroke's are a bad idea, I am fine with that but when someone that puts out more pollution than we ever could think about, i think we have reason to be POed.

Thats my take on that subject.

[Jekyl_22]

Did any of you hear about the Tree Huggers complaining about cows burping? They say that the methane cows give off when they burp is bad for the environment. Like I'm really worried about cows burpping... what do they want me to do, put a filter in their throats?:rolleyes:

[hondafox440]

Originally posted by Fast250EX


Its funny how the same guys that hate 2-stroke ATV's will go to a dirtbike race and enjoy or go to a NASCAR race and think nothing of the pollution being put into the air. Heck, they probably even smoke a pack a day.


In case you didn't know, the 2006 laws affect dirtbikes in the same was as ATVs. Notice how all the manufacturers have 4 stroke MX bikes for 04?

I have heard several rumors floating around my local Honda shop (real credible source.. :rolleyes: ) that the new Honda is based on the CRF450, most likely off the CRF450X version of the bike that is in the works, that features a closer ratio tranny, and electric start. I wouldn't count on a twin spar aluminum frame, but you never know. I am willing to put money on it that the new Honda will be an 04' model.

[tants]

Originally posted by racerx573
Honda released their answer to the YFZ about 17 years ago..
:eek2:

amen

:eek2:

[400grl]

I thought methane came out of the other end of the cows??:rolleyes: :D jp!

I'm waiting for Honda....have been waiting this long, a few more months won't hurt anything!:macho

[Rip_Tear]

About Honda comming out with a 2 stroke, it will never happen. Honda doesn't and hasn't made new 2 strokes, just continued to produce the ones they already were making (I believe).

Honda isn't worried about sales, for the $$ factor, they just don't want to have crates of 400ex's... So go buy some 400's!

[Sparks425Ex]

Originally posted by forum
thats the one thing i dont like about honda. there wusies in that respect. Not like yammaha!! keepin the banshee around, only two stroke sport quads, Realeasing the largest displacment sport atv, And now producing the only race bread quad ever. gotta love the guts they have.

I totally disagree... You think Yamaha is GREAT and SMART for releasing all their stuff quicker than everyone else...

HAHA. I laugh at that. I find that retarded.. Yamaha goes and sticks a quad togeather and says "Hey This Might Work, Lets Mass Produce it..."

Then they get their couple of months of fame and greatness and then comes HONDA.

Honda is Smart. They revolutionized the Sport Quad Industry with the 400Ex. It was great and on top for a few years and then got taken over by Time. Just like any other quad.

More Time=Better Technology. Simple as that... The longer somthing is around the longer other companies have to have that thing torn down to nutitn and figureing out what makes that thing run fast as chit. They go and steal Hondas Design or make a totally rediculous ideas. Like the Raptor. It took them a 660 cc quad to over take the 400Ex and yet it still has not over taken in..

I garuntee HONDA has their quad togeather. It is in testing. It will be and still is for a while. They don't just make somthing up and mass produce it.. They test the **** outta their stuff. That is why HONDA doesn't have recalls. UNLIKE YAMAHA.

Now as for the New Yamaha: A nice quad in theroy. Just wait I bet ya that Yamahas horrible testing techniques will hurt them in the long run. Many recalls to come..

Hondas will come out and Cominate and leave everyone in the dust just as they always do.. Honda is not stupid. They wait for everyone to release their big **** and then WAM!!!.. There is HONDA standing tall on the podium again..

PEACE....

[MxDale71]

Sparks425 - Do you really know what Yamaha does? Do you sit there and watch how they test and design? The Raptor was released to compete w/ the Bomb 650. On the trails and dunes and in speed, the Raptor has the 400ex beat. Since thats what the manufacturers aim for (they don't care about MX), I think Yamaha did exactly what they wanted to. As for just building something and throwing it out there, I HIGHLY doubt that. The Raptor trans are the only real problem they had and that didn't happen to all 01 Raptors. Ya, sometimes some bugs are gonna be missed. It's not like they take 1000 machines out there and run the crap out of them to see what happens to all of them. Sure that would reduce problems in production, but that would also cost them a lot of money. Honda's 400ex didn't have problems like that because they used their outdated XR motor (thats right, it was outdated before they made the 400ex). Sure the Honda's have good handling. They got it right w/ the R and stuck w/ what works. I don't think Yamaha is copying Honda, I think they are just going w/ what works and handles good. It's not an exact copy of Honda, and there are some noticeable differences but they are close. He11, look at the bikes... none of them are really all that different and none of them are copying each others design, they are just going w/ what works.

nacs400ex - Have you ever ridden a completely BONE STOCK 250R? They aren't all that special. The only thing they had was good handling and Suzuki, Kawi, Yamaha, and even Cannondale has gotten caught up there.

I'm not bashing Honda... I'm just backin up Yamaha. I think some of you people are blinded by your brand loyalty. You are the same people that hold the sport you love back. But hey, what does it matter to me if you hold back ATV racing like you do. I race bikes now, so what ever.

[cjpoole1]

This is what I would believe to be a pretty well informed John Arens had to say about the new Honda in a post a few months ago about his new 400EX/CRF frame.


ALso, if I expected Honda to be releasing anything else that would be competitive anytime soon, we would probably not be doing it. At their latest dealer intro they had nothing for us, and everything we know at this time shows no new model coming from Honda with the CRF motor. In fact, even if they did release a new sport quad with the CRF motor it WILL BE so detuned that you will not recognize it. Look at the 400EX.... It started out as a 400 Dirt bike motor, but when it arrived in the atv chassis it lost 9 hp. Honda is super concerned with reliability (thank god) but to gain that for the ATV sales they are willing to sacrifice power. They ALWAYS make that choice with ATVs. They hope we NEVER go racing, and it means NOTHING to them... SO.... I just don't see it happening with them anytime soon. The only way they ever make changes is if they are pushed. The Suzuki LTZ is a very good bike right now and they may be making waves at Honda, but only time will tell for sure. They do hate to get beat in the showroom... At least they are competitive in that way.

[310Rduner]

cjpoole and mxdale71 hit it right on the head i think....

honda is so freaking image worried that they become so scared to try some things now adays i think because of the lawsuits with the 250R... no matter what they release it will be detuned im sure..

but it should still be a good bike, and theres nothing aftermarket can't fix.

glad i already own the Best TRUE high performance bike ever made.

was just browsing the March 03 issue of dirtwheels, and heres a quote from an interview with Shane Hitt that i think is Oh so true :

"DW: if the factories would listen, what would you tell them"

"SH: Build a great sport bike. the 400ex, the z400, theyre good trail bikes and Semi- Sporty, but lets face it, its nothing like a 250R. They're not True sport quads. Make a sport quad thats close to what the 250R is and was. A stock 250R would smoke those bikes. I think Canndondale understands what i'm talking about. They're starting to build bikes that are close to a pure sport quad."


and yeah the factories except cdale and now yammi could care less about mx racing..

[Fast250EX]

If I had 6 grand right now, I would go to a Kawasaki dealer and get me a KFX 400 with no questions asked. I would even look at the Honda store. I have been a loyal Honda guy all my life. My first ATV was a Honda ATC125 I rode when I was 4 1/2.

Honda really is just to worried about their reputation for reliability. If I were them, I would be taken chances right now. Even a somewhat large decrease in attention to detail and reliability for Honda would have several companies beat in that area. Honda has gone to chit. Hell, even POLARIS has a new sport quad out. When Polaris has a sport quad out better than anything Honda has, there is something serious f*cked up about that. POLARIS!! Come on, Honda, get with it.

As far as competition goes, I care as much about Honda right now as my avatar shows.
:rolleyes:

[Sparks425Ex]

No dealer anymore is worried out their engines. They know how to make power..... They know it isn't hard to stuff a biek engine in a quad frame..

They are looking out for the Frames and handling. If I want somthing with more power I will go out and get a different engine.

But all the dealers are pushing for the Pro Prodcutuion class now. I wonder why Farr is running Pro Production and not pro?

That is where the money is. And Honda and Yamaha relize that. And yeah they are gearing their quads towards MX.

It is easier to take an MX quad and Make it XC than it is to make an XC quad MX.

And they are trying to find that happy medium...

Honda's new aluminum framed 450 is gonna be sweeeeeet.

Makes me think i might have ta sell the 416 If I like it as much as I think I will....:eek:

Just wait guys... It won't be long and Honda's gonna drop the bomb on everyone and all your gonna see is people like the guy below.......


Rumor has it honda may have bought out cannondales frame specs and equipement because Honda thinks it's waay better than what they use on their CR line of dirtbikes. Cannondale has been making aluminum framed bikes for years and are the Doctors of aluminum frame technology. All these new quads that are out are nice and are gonna perform on the track. To bad honda's gonna kikk em all to the dirtpiles....:devil: :mad:

[400grl]

:D :D :D

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Sparks425Ex
It is easier to take an MX quad and Make it XC than it is to make an XC quad MX.


What :huh . I disagree!


Anyways, it looks as Honda doesn't want to support our sport at all. If they don't wanna support us, then im not going to support them and buy their products.

[400grl]

I will! I will!:) Probably at around Christmas time!:D

[motoboy66]

I have been ona waiting list for this new quad since I started it 2 years ago. My dealer though I was nutts, but i checked on it this last weekend. i am number one of about 25 people right now. I suspect it will be very close to the new Yamaha. I only hope it comes with decent shocks. We all know its coming. I am afraid of spending money on my EX because i know i will never see that money again once the new quad ir released. The EX is a great bike. i bet i still have it 20 years from now and it will still be running like the day i bought it. Time changes all. In 3 years the new yamaha will not be the top dog, I hope its my new Honda.

Latter all

Todd

[Bretmd94]

Im not going to have money for a new quad untill christmas anyways. I figure i will wait till then, and if there is no word from honda then they can kiss my butt, I will build my own CRF450 quad. :eek:

[Fast250EX]

At least Honda does have reliability going for them. Seems as though it is all they have right now. I had a 1985 Honda TRX 250 utility and it could haul over twice its weight and it can still can do so till this very day, 18 years later. I sold it but the owner says it still feels like it is new. I never did a thing to it. I changed the oil every so often and always checked the tire pressure and stuff like that. It still runs beautifully. That shows how well built Honda's are. I even jumped it quite a bit. On landings it felt as though it only had 3 inches of travel though, lol.

[BigThumper33]

I really don't understand you guys. You all sit around and wait for a new quad to come, when you could be out getting better on yours. How much faster do you think a new quad is going to make you?

Some of you guys have ex's already pumping out 40 horses, aftermarket shocks and chasis....what do you possibly think a factory machine is going to produce that is any better? The yfz450? no...you guys will just stick plus 2 a arms and aftermarket shocks on it to make it ride better....and motor work to make them faster....but how much faster will it make you?

I garuntee most of you guys cant even begin to ride your quads to their limits....so until then why sit around and wait for honda or anyone else?

Jones still kicks *** on his 250R, until any R owners are as fast as him...why get a new quad? Its obvious the R is just that fast.

Everyone dogs on the honda's....but yet at my local tracks....they are the only ones winning still.

And as far as Yamaha throwing quads together....when you look at the raptor...it kinda seems that way. The trannies were junk, they still never fixed the issue with the starter, it is narrower and sits taller than a ex...what the hell is the deal with that? Whomever said something about honda sticking the already outdated xr400 into the quad...where do you think yamaha got their 660? It came right out of a motorcyle as well!

I think what yamaha did with the 450 is awesome for the sport, but it is no where race ready. It has a hot motor....so what...that sounds like every yamaha quad ever made...banshee...raptor... It is too narrow for mx, and those shocks...I'm sorry..but are not going to cut it! I'd rather have some Ohlins over Kayaba!

[motoboy66]

I know i can't ride my EX to its limit, but I also know that it will never compete wit a CRF450 powered quad. The CRF engine is a new desing, so it will be far better than the older EX engine. I will never sell my EX because it is a fun carefree machine. I don't want put money into the enginejust to get it to the same level as a bone stock machine. It would be a lot different if I had all these things done already, but I think it would be foolish to put a lot of money into it when I can buy a 0 time quad that would be better than my current EX. If honda updated thier quads like they do to thier bikes, it would be hard to still compete on an older quad. You don't see people racing 1989 CR250's, and it would be the same if Honda had not stoped making the R. The 400EX got everyone off thier #$% to make new quads, and look at what we got. Look me up in 20 years, and you will be able to ride my 2000 EX, but I will have a newwer quad too.

Todd

[BigThumper33]

You make a good point, but like most people we can not ride what we have to its limits...if we can't ride what we have to its limits what is to say that we can ride a crf450 any faster???

Originally posted by BigThumper33
You make a good point, but like most people we can not ride what we have to its limits...if we can't ride what we have to its limits what is to say that we can ride a crf450 any faster???

I know for me I like to have a lot more power than I can harness 100% its just good to have it there for when you need it, but then I get ribbed all the time for having a machine with many times more ability than the rider :blah: and funny I like it that way.

As far as the earlier comment about the ex motor not being able to perform with what ever newer ones out there I understand your point and agree with it except for one thing. If your comparing stock to stock then theres more truth than most would admit but when it comes to modded engines the little 397cc xr motor that was modded for the EX is not as bad as we all have been lead to believe and as you have seen in the GNCC pro prod class it can be made to even hand custom chassied R's there arse, and when first introduced the larger bore xr's were whooping some butt at baja for some time.

I know most of the people who have built up these engines would agree that the most limiting performance factor is its ability to disapate heat due to the air cooling and yes this has been addressed in all the newer engines so there is one major advantage and though there are others this is the main thing holding it back.

Sure you can say how about DOHC or 5 valve set ups but there not as exotic as what you may think and only allow a certain amount of an advantage that can be countered in other ways on the ex engine.

But when its all added up the days of a longevity and economy based air cooled engine are very numbered in any performance arena.


For me I think it will be sort of what you two said for a little while since its all hooked up allready and a very simple machine. Plus I know I can get some more HP or torque out of this motor and with some inexpesive mods it will be as fast as it will get with this rider anyhow.

[dirtriderex]

Yeah, we need to keep up with our competition. The only reason people are winning with the ex is because they modified their quad and have been riding sience Honda came out with the 400. We need a liquid cooled, DOHC, and a damn reverse!!!!!:grr:

[86atc250r]

Riding since Honda came out with the 400? Ha! Try - riding since Carter was in office.

Why do you need dual overhead cams? The CRF engine is a single cam setup.

Why do you need reverse? I'd personally prefer not to have it, it's additional weight, it's additional complexity in the trans, or the additional width of the cases it causes (or reduced gear width - i.e. tranny reliability).

Most experienced riders can do what they need to do without it faster than most riders can get their reverse engaged.

If you "need" reverse, get a utility quad - or a sport that doesn't require so much "effort".

[dirtriderex]

Your right but the Z400 weighs the same with a reverse and is so snappy, like getting out of corners. I rarley need a reverse but, when I do in a XC race is costs me too much time. Besides I like change, i'm not dogging the 400 I just always want better no matter what. It's competition, never be satisfied.:devious:

[BigThumper33]

I don't see the point in reverse. I used to have a warrior, now a ex and I never have missed having reverse. If you need reverse...you need to learn to ride better....end of story.

I'm really just sick of everyone wanting something faster, and granted the yfz450 is a sweet fast bike off the showroom floor, but most of these guys that are complaining can't even begin to ride their quad to its limits. Every weekend I do battle with fully custom power valved R's and generally get in the top 5, on what many consider as just a 400ex. I know I haven't begun to ride my quad to its limits, so where is the need for something better? I think most people on here need to stop spending all the cash on aftermarket crap and start spending it on practice fees at local tracks...cause your not getting any faster sitting in the garage bolting on new parts and not spending some time actually practicing.