13:1 Ross piston

[lilpoppy]

I'm going to be going with a 416 or a 426 (might go 416 with the higher compression). I have quite a few questions. I wanted to run 13:1 compression, besides running 110 octane and getting a FCR carb and sparks exhaust, and ported heads and, is their anything I should do to the interanls to run 13:1 or should I be ok. Also I'm not sure how much hotter it is going to run with the 13:1 compression, will it run alot hotter, or will the 110 help cool it enough. (I'm going to put in another OEM oil cooler, and I bigger oil tank also)

Also for racing on the sand flats is their any way I might be better off going with a 416 rather than a 426 or will the 426 beat it in most cases, when the carb and everything matches it. Also will I benefit running oversized valves with this type of setup, or it that more for the big bores?

Thanks,
Kevin

[lilpoppy]

I'm also going to be running a hot cams stage 2 cam and am considering selling it and getting the sparks racing cam, can i run the sparks racing cam without hardening the valves and doing other internal work. I plan on riding it around my house here and their, not as much as I used to, so I don;t want it to start getting hot, being unrelaible, etc... I want to be ablt to use it

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by lilpoppy
I'm going to be going with a 416 or a 426 (might go 416 with the higher compression). I have quite a few questions. I wanted to run 13:1 compression, besides running 110 octane and getting a FCR carb and sparks exhaust, and ported heads and, is their anything I should do to the interanls to run 13:1 or should I be ok. Also I'm not sure how much hotter it is going to run with the 13:1 compression, will it run alot hotter, or will the 110 help cool it enough. (I'm going to put in another OEM oil cooler, and I bigger oil tank also)

Also for racing on the sand flats is their any way I might be better off going with a 416 rather than a 426 or will the 426 beat it in most cases, when the carb and everything matches it. Also will I benefit running oversized valves with this type of setup, or it that more for the big bores?

Thanks,
Kevin

hey Kev,

If you go over 12:1 run metal head gasket (cometics) and stonger jug bolts. The metal gasket will help contain all that compression and the stronger jug bolts will help prevent the top end from twisting under power. As far as the oversized valves, only install them on hi-end port/flow work, but yes they work great to lift cfm throughput. The exhaust oversize is a waste of $$ for anything other than running the bottle. high octane will cool better, but it helps to cool with added cooling systems.

Good luck

Chad502EX.com

[lilpoppy]

Thanks Chad, I just spoke to Sparks about running a 12:5 piston instead of the 13:1 Ross, it seems the Ross is alot better deal than the sparks, but I do like the 12:5 vs. 13:1, after I add the thicker gasket, the 13:1 will be more like 13.2:1 which is pretty high up there. I also was considering selling my stage 2 cam and getting a sparks stage 3 cam, but I dont know if I want to dish out that kind of money. Will runnning full sparks stuff give me that much more than if I ran the Ross and hotcam, porting the heads either way, porting them bigger if I use the stage 3 cam though.

A also am considering running alcohol in the future.

[JustRace]

I've heard that if you run that high of compression that you run the risk of destroying your stock rod, and i'm sure you know whats gonna happen if your rod goes while your riding :eek:

[methyman]

Sparks has a drop in cam also, call them and talk to Scott about it.

[lilpoppy]

Originally posted by JustRace
I've heard that if you run that high of compression that you run the risk of destroying your stock rod, and i'm sure you know whats gonna happen if your rod goes while your riding :eek:

What Chad said makes sense thew stock jug bolts are weak and with all that compression they are going to want to twist, and that would cause the rod to be thrown, but I think the stovk rod should be plenty strong from what I'm hearing from alot of people, including sparks.

[buckeye400ex]

My engine was professionally built by Treadway Honda in Zanesville Ohio. See mods below. I'm not sure what kind of gaskets were used but he assured me I would not be blowing head gaskets. So far so good. They did helicoil the head bolts as well.

I do not have any additional coolers or a large capacity oil tank (even though I am thinking of getting a larger tank) and I have ran my quad all day in 80 degrees caked with mud and the temp gauge I have in my oil tank never read over 250-275. Washed off some of the caked on mud and it went back down to 175-190 which seemed to be about normal. I run 110 octane all the time.

You can do searches on the debate of how it will run, hotter or cooler. I personally have not seen the quad get hot yet. I think you'll be fine especially if you go with the extra cooler and larger tank.

If it ever turns to REAL summer here in Ohio, I'll abuse it in the heat and just find out if it will overheat.

Also, I did ask about the stock rod, according to my engine builder, you only need to worry about changing that when going with a stroker motor.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by lilpoppy
What Chad said makes sense thew stock jug bolts are weak and with all that compression they are going to want to twist, and that would cause the rod to be thrown, but I think the stovk rod should be plenty strong from what I'm hearing from alot of people, including sparks.

Kev, if your interested, my website "Tech Talk" has a 11:1 416ex on the bottle coming apart at 55hp on the dyno. Guess that means the rod is good up to that point. Hardened rods are used mainly for strokers since they provide alot more force down thru the rod to the crank. I personally wouldn't run over 12.5:1 without hardened jug bolts and kick arse head gasket. Another option might be to get a 11:1, shave the head say 0.020", which bumps compression and requires less enenrgy to move that 12.5:1 heavy slug up and down- meaning less mass to move with same compression after head shave. Of coarse, I would do this without claying in my motor, which you can also read about on "TECH TALK". HEH!

Chad502EX.com

[lilpoppy]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Kev, if your interested, my website "Tech Talk" has a 11:1 416ex on the bottle coming apart at 55hp on the dyno. Guess that means the rod is good up to that point. Hardened rods are used mainly for strokers since they provide alot more force down thru the rod to the crank. I personally wouldn't run over 12.5:1 without hardened jug bolts and kick arse head gasket. Another option might be to get a 11:1, shave the head say 0.020", which bumps compression and requires less enenrgy to move that 12.5:1 heavy slug up and down- meaning less mass to move with same compression after head shave. Of coarse, I would do this without claying in my motor, which you can also read about on "TECH TALK". HEH!

Chad502EX.com

I just ordered the 13:1 JE piston and am going to order the jug bolts. I'm not sure where to buy the jug bolts as far as prices go. I ordered a cometic gasket (they are expensive) and new valve seals. I might eventually run alcohol in the motor, I talked to sparks abput it and they said as long as a do it right, and flush the alcohol out after every trip, their is no problems with alcohol. If I run the alcohol, I'm going to have the heads matched to run with the alcohol perfectly.

I'm going to run a FCR carb. and was wondering what is the cheapest you can pick one up for, I dont feel like paying $450 for it, thats a rip! I'm not huge on the edelbrock though, so I think it is going to be FCR most likey with the X-6 exhaust.

Also, does running the additional oil cooler really do all that much or would I be wasting my money. I still need shocks and other things as well. And is my clutch going to hold up to the extra power, its a 99 with a stock clutch and a few hours, its a little noisy right now but not slipping.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by lilpoppy
I just ordered the 13:1 JE piston and am going to order the jug bolts. I'm not sure where to buy the jug bolts as far as prices go. I ordered a cometic gasket (they are expensive) and new valve seals. I might eventually run alcohol in the motor, I talked to sparks abput it and they said as long as a do it right, and flush the alcohol out after every trip, their is no problems with alcohol. If I run the alcohol, I'm going to have the heads matched to run with the alcohol perfectly.

I'm going to run a FCR carb. and was wondering what is the cheapest you can pick one up for, I dont feel like paying $450 for it, thats a rip! I'm not huge on the edelbrock though, so I think it is going to be FCR most likey with the X-6 exhaust.

Also, does running the additional oil cooler really do all that much or would I be wasting my money. I still need shocks and other things as well. And is my clutch going to hold up to the extra power, its a 99 with a stock clutch and a few hours, its a little noisy right now but not slipping.

Kev, if you have your head off you might as well do a 3 or 5 angle valve job. Yes the oil cooler does help alot, not only to cool the oil down, but also to dump cool oil down on your top end. heat in your top end causes power fad, an enemy. Buy it, its worth $35 and a few hours of installation time.

Chad502EX.com

[lilpoppy]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Kev, if you have your head off you might as well do a 3 or 5 angle valve job. Yes the oil cooler does help alot, not only to cool the oil down, but also to dump cool oil down on your top end. heat in your top end causes power fad, an enemy. Buy it, its worth $35 and a few hours of installation time.

Chad502EX.com

I was going to go with a national port job, I'm not sure if that included any valve work. How much is the 3 or 5 angle job, Im not familiar with that. Also I'm going to sell the stage 2 hotcam and get the sparks agressive cam, so I will have to get hardened rockers(where should I get them done?), stronger springs(who makes the best?). And when I order the carb if I do extensive head work should I get a 41mm FCR?

Thanks,
Kevin

[shamisc]

Your EX should kick arse 'till you throw the rod!! My buddy and his cousin both had 13:1 426's with all the same head work, exhaust, cams, etc. and both bikes threw the rod through the cases!! His cousins did last about three months longer than his though! Sparks, FST, Duncan, and other engine builders that I chated with before building mine recommended a HD Carillo rod for anything over 11:1! I do beleive I would install that rod buddy! Unless you have plenty of cash for rebuilds about every 3-6 months!:(

[shamisc]

Originally posted by lilpoppy
I was going to go with a national port job, I'm not sure if that included any valve work. How much is the 3 or 5 angle job, Im not familiar with that. Also I'm going to sell the stage 2 hotcam and get the sparks agressive cam, so I will have to get hardened rockers(where should I get them done?), stronger springs(who makes the best?). And when I order the carb if I do extensive head work should I get a 41mm FCR?

Thanks,
Kevin

Wise move with the cam! Although Magic Racing will sell you the same cam minus the C. Sparks logo for $149. It's a WebCam. WebCam hard welded rockers are $249. And you can get Kibblewhite HD Ti springs and retainers for $89 all 3 from magicracing.com to your door in 2 yes 2 DAYS!! I did days of price searching and Magic beat them all other than C&D Racing for the 39FCR carb. Colby will ship it to ya for $450 with cable and billet fuel screw! 39fcr should be more than enough for your motor! As for the head, there's a guy in Henderson, NC that does a full race port and 3 angle valve job including shortened valve guides for $250! His work is so good, the local race team stop using Duncan and Port magic and they now have him do all they're port work. He just set a record at Thunder Raceway drag strip at Hatfield McCoy on a 727 Raptor as the fastest 4 stroke! Give Gary a call @ (252) 492-1014 Hope this helps ya! ;)

[JD400exrider]

Originally posted by shamisc
Your EX should kick arse 'till you throw the rod!! My buddy and his cousin both had 13:1 426's with all the same head work, exhaust, cams, etc. and both bikes threw the rod through the cases!! His cousins did last about three months longer than his though! Sparks, FST, Duncan, and other engine builders that I chated with before building mine recommended a HD Carillo rod for anything over 11:1! I do beleive I would install that rod buddy! Unless you have plenty of cash for rebuilds about every 3-6 months!:(

Could not aggree more.
Kevin. If you are going to run 13:1 compression you should be looking at a stronger rod. I have a friend i ride with that threw a rod right through the cases couple months ago. He was running 13:1 compression. Allot of force pushing down on that stock rod. ;)

[buckeye400ex]

4 months of hard riding no stock rod problems yet. I'll fess up if I have any though.

[lilpoppy]

Thanks for the help on the cam guys, Im a little down on hotcams right now, so how me we talking for a better rod? The stiffer jug bolts wont be enough to keep it from twisitng. It I have to use a stronger rod I may not have the money to buy hardened rockers. All it takes it money, lol. I want to be able to ride it reliably so I might as well do it right the frist time.

Thanks,
Kevin

[JD400exrider]

Originally posted by lilpoppy
Thanks for the help on the cam guys, Im a little down on hotcams right now, so how me we talking for a better rod? The stiffer jug bolts wont be enough to keep it from twisitng. It I have to use a stronger rod I may not have the money to buy hardened rockers. All it takes it money, lol. I want to be able to ride it reliably so I might as well do it right the frist time.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin
Something you might want to think about. If you are going to replace the rod. Which I would if going with that high of compression I believe the cases have to be split to do the install. You might want to think about stroking it to a 440. The bore would be a 416 bore and they stroke the crank to get a 440 out of it. I believe they run cooler than a big bore 440 and have allot of torque. (Just to confuse a little more :blah: )

The sparks aggressive cam for 380.00 i believe is a drop in cam. No hardened rockers needed. I have heard from one of the guys on here that had one that he liked it allot but he would have bought Heavier valve springs if he were to install it again.

I just put heaver springe in my clutch. Seems to be working fine. Sparks or FDO 8 plate clutch may be needed when you are all done.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by lilpoppy
I'm going to be going with a 416 or a 426 (might go 416 with the higher compression). I have quite a few questions. I wanted to run 13:1 compression, besides running 110 octane and getting a FCR carb and sparks exhaust, and ported heads and, is their anything I should do to the interanls to run 13:1 or should I be ok. Also I'm not sure how much hotter it is going to run with the 13:1 compression, will it run alot hotter, or will the 110 help cool it enough. (I'm going to put in another OEM oil cooler, and I bigger oil tank also)

Also for racing on the sand flats is their any way I might be better off going with a 416 rather than a 426 or will the 426 beat it in most cases, when the carb and everything matches it. Also will I benefit running oversized valves with this type of setup, or it that more for the big bores?

Thanks,
Kevin


kevin, I want to practice night with a friend has 426-13:1 Big sparks cam! HR ,Sparks X6, FCR, oversize valves...That combo flat out rocks...he had a throttle stick problems and flipped! next week I ride it and tell ya more. Your on the the right track for a helluva motor!

[pnut420]

Originally posted by JD400exrider
Kevin
Something you might want to think about. If you are going to replace the rod. Which I would if going with that high of compression I believe the cases have to be split to do the install. You might want to think about stroking it to a 440. The bore would be a 416 bore and they stroke the crank to get a 440 out of it. I believe they run cooler than a big bore 440 and have allot of torque. (Just to confuse a little more :blah: )

The sparks aggressive cam for 380.00 i believe is a drop in cam. No hardened rockers needed. I have heard from one of the guys on here that had one that he liked it allot but he would have bought Heavier valve springs if he were to install it again.

I just put heaver springe in my clutch. Seems to be working fine. Sparks or FDO 8 plate clutch may be needed when you are all done.

How much is the stroker crank? I think it is getting way out of my price range. I think I might go with a aftermarket rod, 13.2:1 JE, national port job, FCR, X-6, and I might put the hot cam in for now, and do some internal work, then upgrade to a aggressive sparks and hardened rockers and better springs. I also am considering opening up the valves some, then I could run the 41mm FCR and with the sparks cam, it should be a good combo down the road. (My main thing is I want everything to match, dont just throw in a huge cam and call it good, so will the 41mm still be much, or can I use smaller pilot needle, etc...

[pnut420]

Oh and to staighten things out, I was my buddies name(lillpoppy)
I have my own name now and its pnut420, if you guys have some info for me, IM me, screenname is pnut420blaze

[lilpoppy]

I need some help with the stroker crank, how much are they?

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by JD400exrider
Kevin
Something you might want to think about. If you are going to replace the rod. Which I would if going with that high of compression I believe the cases have to be split to do the install. You might want to think about stroking it to a 440. The bore would be a 416 bore and they stroke the crank to get a 440 out of it. I believe they run cooler than a big bore 440 and have allot of torque. (Just to confuse a little more :blah: )

The sparks aggressive cam for 380.00 i believe is a drop in cam. No hardened rockers needed. I have heard from one of the guys on here that had one that he liked it allot but he would have bought Heavier valve springs if he were to install it again.

I just put heaver springe in my clutch. Seems to be working fine. Sparks or FDO 8 plate clutch may be needed when you are all done.

Definitely the hot setup! stroke the crank about 300 to 500 depending..whats included..

[Ketch]

Lilpoppy, Look in to this it's called the Crank works in Arizonia they told me about a three week turn around and it was not bad at all price wise. (480) 897-1746 They also claimed to be doing all the cranks for LRD. Jimmy

[JD400exrider]

Welcome aboard pnut420. Just remmber its only money:D
It is very confusing building up the motor. You are on the right track. The main thing is reliabilty. The shop i had do my poerting could not figure out whay I wanted a 416 instead of a 440. They build 10-15 440's a month. Big bores no strokers. I would talk to a few builders on what the price is for a stroker unless you are going to split the cases yourself.
You can allways ad a carb latter. thats 450 bucks that could go into building the motor. Bolt the carb on when you have a little extra coin.

I would talk to
FDO- For Dirt Only
Pro Fab ATV. In the links section.
Poweroll Has cranks and kits.
Sparks is a great builder but a year wait is to long. Porting from sparks was going to take to long for me.

[pnut420]

I might put the FCR in with the hotcam and then drop the webcam in later with hardened rockers and better srings. I'm going to check into stroking the motor, and think I might do the stronger rod now no matter what, as for a 440 big bore thats after the 426 goes, lol. My main focus is to make sure the heads match the cam I'm getting, etc... So I'm telling them I have a webcam, so they port it to that. My stock carb has some problems so I dont want to put it back on and my exhaust is shot from running no endcap.