what is "blown up"???

[400exJOE]

I have heard this many times but i dont really know what it means. What happens to the engine? I have a friend with a recon and i think it might be blown up because it wont start, just cranks, and we have gone over the entire quad. Pls. clear this one up for me.

[400exJOE]

nobody knows...:confused:

[4punksdad]

most people use the term "blown up" when your engine has piston and or cylinder damage. your piston could be siezed in the cylinder causing it to "lock up", or your rings are wasted & you have no compression. hope this helps.

We use the term either when we get no compression or can't figure out what is wrong. In reading your post about the recon I would do the following test,

1. Compression: is it within specs
2. Fuel: is it getting any
3. Spark: is the electrical system working correctly

From reading your post I would almost bet electrical problem. But it could be as simple as clogged fuel filter, fuel tank empty, could even be a faulty run/off switch.

Good luck with the Recon

[400exJOE]

the recon has perfect spark on a new plug, there is gas getting from the tank to the carb, and its not seized. There might not be fuel getting through the carb to the engine, but I thoroghly disasembled and cleaned the carb, so I find it hard to believe its not getting gas. I guess the rings are shot...:confused:

[NJ300ex]

i think it would still start if the rings were shot. Does smoke come out of it all the time. If it does its the rings.

[4punksdad]

Originally posted by 400exJOE
the recon has perfect spark on a new plug, there is gas getting from the tank to the carb, and its not seized. There might not be fuel getting through the carb to the engine, but I thoroghly disasembled and cleaned the carb, so I find it hard to believe its not getting gas. I guess the rings are shot...:confused:

I suggest a honda service manual & a compression check. The compression would have to be VERY bad for it not to start. It would sooner smoke like a freight train than not start. If it were electrical, you would have NO spark, so you have ruled that out also.

in cold weather the hondas start hard & foul plugs. Even though you have spark, it doesn't mean the plug is not fouled. Try a new plug.

air, fuel & spark........make sure you have all 3 before going any deeper.

[4punksdad]

woops.looks like we were posting at the same time! :) GMTA

[NJ300ex]

I bet you haven't checked the airfilter yet. Maybe it is way overoiled and is getting no air. Check the simple things like vent hose, is the gas on, enough gas in the tank, start button in on position. Also think what you were doing when it stopped working and what it sounded like. Check your float bowl to see if its gummed up.

[400exJOE]

the air filter isnt even on it. We have the plastic, gas tank, andair box off of it to try and find the problem. My friend told me that maybe there is a bad ground. It has a brand new plug in it and the spark is very good. My guess is its not getting gas, but we took apart the entire carb and cleaned it so we dont know what the problem is. Gas flows from the tank to the carb fine. Must be something with the carb...Any ideas?

[#77]

The exact thing happened to me, no compression. My rings were welded to the piston (likely from the repeated water crossings) and I had no compression. This caused the engine to have no compression and all it did was crank and it wouldnt start. My case was so severe that I needed an overbore. Another possibility could be a broken valve. Hope this helps.

[400exJOE]

i took off the valve cover and the valves appear to be in fine shape. The move freely, but what about timing??? Maybe that got knocked off??? I still think the rings are shot...

[TrengaBlaster3]

My rings were welded to the piston (likely from the repeated water crossings) and I had no compression.

if your rings were welded to the cylinder howcome it kept cranking? i have looked at the recon too and cant figure out what is wrong with it.

[Chef]

Originally posted by TrengaBlaster3


if your rings were welded to the cylinder howcome it kept cranking? i have looked at the recon too and cant figure out what is wrong with it.

Even in your quote in your post, it says they were welded to the piston. not the cylinder walls...the piston is the part that is round and goes up and down to make power..lol, just makin sure you knew that...

Blown can have a ton of meanings, one severe case of "blown up" is like my buddies 465, his sucked a valve (the valve springs arent strong enough, then the valve gets pushed up through the retainer and the retainer comes off, so when the piston goes back down the valve goes down into the combustion chamber and then when the piston comes up the valve is in the combustion chamber on top of the piston...) well it sucked a valve, then the piston came back up and broke the rod and the piston and made a hole in the side of the head...:huh:eek:

so there is a severe "blown up" condition. and a blown head gasket could also be called, blown up...

Hey 400exJoe,

When you are trying to start it, have you placed your hand over the exhaust outlet to see if any air is being moved and second if the choke is on and you cycle the throttle when trying to start, can you smell gas? That would at least let you know if you have some compression and whether or not you are getting any gas. Anyone who has ever flooded knows the smell I'm talking about. Good luck.

Let us know what you find out.

[TrengaBlaster3]

my bad i thought he said to the cylinder. thanks for lettin me know what a piston was i had no idea :p

[400exJOE]

i'm sure its not something as simple as a flooded carb. We have been over the quad many times and especially the carb. Cleaned and disasembled two times. My next guess is that the rings are shot and its getting no compression. All we can get out of it is a VERY occasional backfire.

[4punksdad]

Originally posted by 400exJOE
i'm sure its not something as simple as a flooded carb. We have been over the quad many times and especially the carb. Cleaned and disasembled two times. My next guess is that the rings are shot and its getting no compression. All we can get out of it is a VERY occasional backfire.

I know you mentioned that you have installed a new plug..........but you are describing the exact way my bike acts when it fouls a plug. perhaps try another plug until you get a chance to check the compression.

that sounds like the last time I had a fouled plug, it would spark out of the engine only, a plug will fire easier out of the engine vs. in the engine because of the pressure inside.

[400exJOE]

i am 99.9% sure of what it is. I think the rings are totally shot. It is getting no compression and thats why. It has nothing to do with the spark plug. Also, right after it died, we tried to start it and it really strained the starter. We tried pull starting it but that was also very hard. My guess is that the rings cracked and broke and wedged themselves between the piston and cylinder. I will check it out later in the week. Looks like its gonna need an over bore and new piston and rings. Thanks for all the help so far.

[#77]

Thanx for clearing that up with TrengaBlaster, HOTT440EX.:p

As for you, 400 Joe, I would put money on it that it is your buddies rings, just worn out. Hopefully you can tear it apart and verify this so you don't have to take it to a dealer or a shop that will overcharge you for such a simple task.
Good luck!:)

[9300EX]

make sure the camshaft is turning. if those valves don't move it won't start. after you crank it pull the plug it should be wet with fuel if it didn't start. not wet = no fuel. experience tells me unless it was smokein and runnin like crap last time ya rode it it's somthing simple

Your latest post definitely points toward ring failure. Hopefully when you take her apart you will find part of the ring sitting on top of the piston. Your buddy might end up looking for an EX soon.

[400exJOE]

we already removed the head, and no, the rings were not on top of the piston. We changed the oil and nothing came out that looked like metal peices. Just real old oil because it hadn't been done in a real long time. What does it mean if I did not finding the rings on top of the piston?

Well if you have already pulled the head and didn't find any pieces I would recommend you pull off the cylinder and inspect the piston and rings. If the rings still appear to be in one piece I would put the rings in the cylinder and check the ring gap. That is a sure fire way to see if you have excessive ring wear. If when you look at the piston you notice that part of a ring is missing I would suspect the piece is now in the crankcase. I think it would be hard to get by the oil rings but anything is possible. Other than that, how did the valves look?

[9300EX]

if there was any thing wrong with the piston or rings you would have seen it as soon as you pulled the head. (scored cylinder wall or broken ring or ring groove) Did you make sure the cam was turning? I think you would see something wrong with the chain if it wasn't. I still say its somthing simple. check everything again. :D