New Fdo Racing Heavy Duty Head Studs

[abcracing]

ok guys mike at FDO RACING is have me post some pics and info on his newly designed head studs.first of all i'm retarded and lost the paper where he had all the info wrote down about these lol. so i'm going to post the pics of them and the price and when i get all the info i will post it then.if you are interested in thse you should contact mike at 740-967-1078 the price for the set of 4 plus new nuts is $68.95 if you would like FDO to install them it is and extra $30

[shaneb]

is that my jug ???? maybe not no nikasil ......

I am glad that FDO finially has a voice on this forum !!!!

You guys really need a web site with dyno charts etc !!!

Shane

[abcracing]

well shane first of all thats not your jug sorry man but you was right. we will have a website in a couple of months.they was in the other day to run our cable modum and now all i need is a guy to design the website.hopefully we will get something going soon. later BILL

oh oh oh oh I want two sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Glamis400ex]

Nice product abcracing, I just don't understand why companies feel they need to charge so friggin much for everything. It's 4 bolts...that's it. Nothing special, just thicker. Is there really $70 bux worth of material and machining in those??? Maybe I'm missing something...The sad part is, I actually need some, but won't buy them cuz I can't justify it in my head...$100 for new bolts...hmmm

No flame intended, I hope you understand what I'm saying. Just tired of paying thru the nose for simple things we all need...

Sorry, had a rough day today... :(

Glamis

Originally posted by Glamis400ex
Nice product abcracing, I just don't understand why companies feel they need to charge so friggin much for everything. It's 4 bolts...that's it. Nothing special, just thicker. Is there really $70 bux worth of material and machining in those??? Maybe I'm missing something...The sad part is, I actually need some, but won't buy them cuz I can't justify it in my head...$100 for new bolts...hmmm

No flame intended, I hope you understand what I'm saying. Just tired of paying thru the nose for simple things we all need...

Sorry, had a rough day today... :(

Glamis

:eek: :D ;)

I wonder if theres going to be a reply to this one, but I seriously agree.

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by Glamis400ex
Nice product abcracing, I just don't understand why companies feel they need to charge so friggin much for everything. It's 4 bolts...that's it. Nothing special, just thicker. Is there really $70 bux worth of material and machining in those??? Maybe I'm missing something...The sad part is, I actually need some, but won't buy them cuz I can't justify it in my head...$100 for new bolts...hmmm

No flame intended, I hope you understand what I'm saying. Just tired of paying thru the nose for simple things we all need...

Sorry, had a rough day today... :(

Glamis


Ditto

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by Glamis400ex
Nice product abcracing, I just don't understand why companies feel they need to charge so friggin much for everything. It's 4 bolts...that's it. Nothing special, just thicker. Is there really $70 bux worth of material and machining in those??? Maybe I'm missing something...The sad part is, I actually need some, but won't buy them cuz I can't justify it in my head...$100 for new bolts...hmmm

No flame intended, I hope you understand what I'm saying. Just tired of paying thru the nose for simple things we all need...

Sorry, had a rough day today... :(

Glamis

Those aren't normal bolts, those are ATV bolts :devil:

[Glamis400ex]

ahhh....I knew there was something I was mising...:rolleyes:

Glamis

[BigThumper33]

If you look real close they kinda look gold plated :D :rolleyes:

[skemp]

I feel the same exact way. It really sucks that companies have to charge so much, and when you look at ATV parts compared to car parts, you are usually paying more for less. I just bought an FCR carb. Roughly $400. Now look at a 650CFM 4 barrel Edelbrock for a small block Chevy for about $250. It is so rediculous, but at the same time, I understand it as well. The market for ATV parts is far smaller than the market for car parts, etc, so they have to make their money somewhere, but sometimes, it is outrageous. One thing that kills me is the price of shocks and a-arms. I know for a fact that there is nowhere near the price charged going into the research and development of the parts. Oh well, you gotta pay to have fun I guess.

Get some more info on those studs. I might look into them. :)

[abcracing]

well i guys i do undersdtand where your comming from.i'm a rider and racer just like all of you and understand some prices are outragous.in our shop we try to keep things as affordable as possiable.you have to understand that at the same time we have to make a living.i'm not trying to be a jerk but its true.as far as the bolts go we don't make them right there in the shop,we get them through a company that designed and makes them for us.now if we had the ability to make them in the shop of course they would be cheaper cause your cutting out the middle man.if you call any other atv shops that carry aftermarket head studs you will see that our prices are very competative.yes they are also plated(thats what makes it look gold) we had them plated so it would be more heat resistant and not be so likly to pul like your stock ones.they are also course thread on the botom to make them hold better.i hope i'm not upsetting anyone on here and that evryone can understand where we're comming from. THANKS BILL

[Glamis400ex]

abcracing..

I do understand everyone has the right to make a living, but some things are ridiculous.

What happens is, company "A" makes a product...like larger/stronger studs and charges an arm and leg for them. Well, if, you need these because of the 12:1 or 13:1 compression your'e running, you really have no other choice but to buy them. This is called..."having you by the balls..."

Along comes company "B", and makes their own version and sees company "A" making huge profit off 4 bolts.:rolleyes: So, company "B" says their's are better and stronger and charges even more...It's a vicious cycle...

Now, the way to combat this is to have many companies making these, this will cause competition and everyone will want to be a few bucks lower than the other guy and...voila...lower prices for everyone. Not hard to figure out.

And then there's Roll Design who is on a completely different planet...:rolleyes:

Glamis

[BigThumper33]

I personally wouldn't point this thread at FDO in any respect. For everyone I've heard, FDO does awesome work, gives awesome tech support and customer support for a hell of a lot less than "the other guys".

[Glamis400ex]

In no way is this directly aimed at FDO, all aftermarket companies are one in the same...they are just another company following the same path....it's ok though, I'm quite used to being had "by the balls". Not a cheap hobby to be into....When I get tired of paying for it, I'll sell my quad.;)

Glamis

[Ben]

I think you need to direct your anger more towards companies such as huge Rocky Mountain ATV that undersell most retail shops by a dollar or two and we consumers fall right into it and forsake our smaller companies and shops. I'd rather support a growing company like FDO that is customer oriented than buy a generic product from Rocky Mountain for a dollar less. Don't fool yourself into thinking that a price war would be good for the ATV aftermarket industry - the huge companies always win (e.g. see what Walmart has done to local businesses in every small/medium sized American town - shut them down) and then we will be left with a couple huge companies that really "have us by the balls," to us your wording. ;)

I agree that aftermarket prices are high - there is no doubt about that, but I'd say a primary reason for it (but certainly not the only reason) is that these small companies don't produce enough volume to keep their costs low. The markup is incredible though, and I too wish that the aftermarket companies would ease up on us - but if they aren't going to do it I'd suggest that is a result of the big Rocky Mountains and Dennis Kirks, not small companies like FDO.

[dhines]

I personally think that the Rocky Mountains and Wal-Mart's of the world rock! The huge companies typically win because they usually bring something better to the table - i.e. lower prices, better inventories, stability (will small shop X even be around next month when you have problems?), etc. I've never been one to support smaller shops just because they're smaller, "local", or whatever. Either they give me something that the other guys don't or I take my business elsewhere.

The "mom and pop" shops certainly have their place - usually selling lower production/more highly customized products. I however do not feel that they are necessarily any more "customer oriented" than larger companies. I'd argue that I've had better customer service out of larger stores (Wal-Mart, Sears, Home Depot, Rocky Mountain) over the years than most of the smaller ATV-related shops combined. I'd also argue that a "mom and pop," on average, is more likely to stick it to the customer on price than the bigger retailers. As I have ranted on this board and others for years, there are simply too many good ole boys out there who decide to go into business for themselves without knowing a dang thing about how to run a company or how to provide even basic customer service.

The exorbitant prices ATVers are forced to pay by most custom shops is indeed a tragedy. While the argument can certainly be made that the high prices are simply due to the low volume of products that shops produce, I don't believe that holds true in most cases. Most of the time shops are simply taking a rather simple product and cranking the price beyond all reason. Either that or they need to figure out a way to keep their costs down.

To me the future of the ATV aftermarket industry lies in companies like Arens Bros. (no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way - just using them as an example) - a shop who has the industrial and business know-how to produce a quality product while keeping costs down through automation and mass assembly and who then provides their products at a reasonable price to consumers. ---- Uh oh! Now that I think about it, if they keep it up their quality and low prices may eventually make them a "BIG COMPANY" and they might eventually start running smaller "mom and pops" out of business. Wow, maybe we should start boycotting their products now before they get too big and become EVIL!!!

[haydug]

I have these studs in my bike, with NO problems so far. My 440 kit has been awesome. If you look at these in person, you will see they are NICE! I know Mike done alot of research on fixing the pulled stud problem, and this is what he came up with. I will stand behind it 100%

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by dhines
I personally think that the Rocky Mountains and Wal-Mart's of the world rock! The huge companies typically win because they usually bring something better to the table - i.e. lower prices, better inventories, stability (will small shop X even be around next month when you have problems?), etc. I've never been one to support smaller shops just because they're smaller, "local", or whatever. Either they give me something that the other guys don't or I take my business elsewhere they get too big and become EVIL!!!

The evil lies in in 20ft and 40ft cans full of product and labeled "made in China"! Say hello to the local screwmachine operator who once was proud of his profession but now wears a silly apron and greets you at the Wal-Mart door!:mad:

[dhines]

Originally posted by bmw500hp
The evil lies in in 20ft and 40ft cans full of product and labeled "made in China"! Say hello to the local screwmachine operator who once was proud of his profession but now wears a silly apron and greets you at the Wal-Mart door!:mad:

Yeah, and think of all of those poor horse-drawn carriage builders who lost their jobs when the automobile came along back in the day - or poor ole Paul Bunyan who lost his job to the chainsaw :p

The market is an ever changing beast. Technologies evolve, industries rise and fall, and no job is guaranteed forever. It can suck but it's not "evil," it's just life. Hell, I just got laid off for the third time in four years - and I'm in one of those "new" technological industries.

Sure, I could blame "big business," globalization (there's a good chance some foreigner will be doing my job in a few months), or whatever, but instead I'm going to go out and find something new to do that will put food on the table. It sucks, but that's life.

It sucks, but that's life.

Interesting thought :)

I applied this to most points in this thread and it fits, fits very well. :D


Another point to ponder (and yes the above quote fits here too :) ) is that the big evil companies are enjoying a larger profit margin than the ole mom and pop stores they are replacing and the burden is now placed on the mfg's to supply the product at a lower cost (and usually lower quality also) thereby reducing there profitablitly causing workers wages to become stagnent or lower and since the average worker is the largest part of consumer demand and now has less money to spend the attractivness of an other cheap import product becomes a reality and even more good jobs are lost and the cycle continues.

It sucks, but that's life.

[dhines]

Originally posted by 440EX4me
Interesting thought :)

I applied this to most points in this thread and it fits, fits very well. :D


Another point to ponder (and yes the above quote fits here too :) ) is that the big evil companies are enjoying a larger profit margin than the ole mom and pop stores they are replacing and the burden is now placed on the mfg's to supply the product at a lower cost (and usually lower quality also) thereby reducing there profitablitly causing workers wages to become stagnent or lower and since the average worker is the largest part of consumer demand and now has less money to spend the attractivness of an other cheap import product becomes a reality and even more good jobs are lost and the cycle continues.

It sucks, but that's life.

I actually didn't intend to sound as flippant about it as I did. I fully realize the real-life implications that industrial/market shifts can have on real people. As I said, I'm currently staring at a lay-off notice with a new baby and a wife who isn't working. Suck-ola!

The point that I was trying to get to is that it really doesn't do any good to point fingers and let yourself become bitter over it. Nor does it help to complain that the government should do more to "protect" American jobs, fight foreign competition, etc. All you have to do is look at France to see the nightmare that results from overly protectionist economic policies.

The fact of the matter is that industrial (manufacturing) type jobs are going to continue to become a rare commodity in the US as companies naturally move them to areas that support lower wages. What can be done to stop it? Unfortunately, not much. If the US government tried prevent companies from moving jobs you'd either have companies leaving the US and establishing themselves overseas or you'd have foreign companies (who would still have access to the cheaper labor) kicking the butts of the American firms who can't hold down their costs.

The good news is that despite the "loss" of so many manufacturing jobs, the US unemployment rate remains at near record lows. How is this possible? Because new opportunities have opened up in other more service-oriented industries like information technologies, finance, media, etc. Heck the economy seems to be looking up - friends of mine who have been looking for jobs are now finding them. It's not easy, but there is hope!

Not to just pick a fight at this point, but I'd have to argue that "big evil companies" actually operate on lower margins than smaller businesses. Sure retailers like Wal-Mart are able to obtain lower prices on merchandise through bulk purchasing, but that's how they are able to outsell the competition ("low prices - everyday!" :devil: ). They make their money more through higher volume of sales than higher margins.

Dhines I agree with most of that but have a few points to add.

First with the US having some of the lowest import tariffs and easiest regs of most all the major nations its easy for me to understand that the global trade thing has never been on a level playing field.

Even if you try to ignore the obvious games our govt plays with the Chinese govt its still not right for this or any other country to be dumping (selling well below their prevelant prices in their own country and other major markets etc) product on our shores costing the US mfg jobs and all the while enjoying preffered status and low tarriffs.

Though the US has established "dumping duties" on various nations and products our shores remain mostly open for free trade, and there are some who believe that additional tarriffs on these imports would not only level the field globally but reduce the tax burden on the us taxpayers. Opponets point out the potential for retaliation overseas on our products but with the current inflated rates I cant see how much more they could rise.


The issue of the major warehouse type chain stores operating at low margins is by my experience completey false and something that these co's have mislead us to believe. I have seen costing and sales level info on the depot and believe me any small business owner in distribution would love to enjoy these margins.

Sureley you can understand that these companies wouldnt enjoy the growth and stock values they do if they were not very profitable. No stock fund manager would invest into a distribution or wholesale company operating at 20% gross margins, and from what I have seen they are at well above those numbers.

Another thing to think about is that most of the better jobs avail in any numbers are support type jobs. These are the jobs that would support mfg etc and would include everything from computers to janitorial supply companies.

If we loose all the mfg who would the companies that support them service or sell?

I guess every state in the country could become the largest employer like here in nj, but sometime someware it will collapse cause the $$$ has to come from someware.

[dhines]

440,

Uh oh, a debate on tariffs now? I think we're going to bore everyone stiff!

Well, I can certainly agree that the government should afford some level of protection from predatory pricing by overseas competitors - especially when those competitors are often being directly subsidized by their governments in order to allow them to sell their goods are a price that is artificially low. However, I think history has shown that across-the-board tariffs are not good for anyone over the long-haul.

Not only do foreign nations inevitably retaliate against tariffs by slapping high duties on American goods, the higher prices that those tariffs allow domestic companies to charge for their products also places their customers at a distinct disadvantage.

Take the recent steel tariffs imposed by the Bush administration: While such an act has no doubt helped to prop up the short-term revenues of domestic steel companies, it will also force the many companies that purchase steel from them to pay higher prices. Now that might not be a problem if all American companies only competed against other American businesses, but in a global economy US firms start getting stomped by the foreigners.

Ford for example will now have to pay higher prices for the steel it uses to manufacture cars while many of its foreign competitors will be able to purchase it at a much lower price. When their cars hit the market (not just here but around the world), Ford will find it difficult to compete on price due to their higher cost of goods sold. If Ford's sales then begin to slip, they will inevitably buy less steel and the steel companies will ultimately suffer. Again, there is just no good way to get around the effects of today's global marketplace.

I think that history has shown us time and time again that the most successful economies are those that provide marketplaces with the least restrictions. Countries have indeed attempted to fiddle with the market in order to slant things to their advantage, but those attempts inevitably end up backfiring. Any nation that attempts to shield itself from the pressures of the global economy with suffer. Heck, look at our good buddies in China. Even those commie buggers have figured out that they have to be able to compete to survive. Longstanding isolationist policies have fallen in recent years - allowing foreign investment and competition to thrive. They know they simply won't make it otherwise.

On the issues of margins, I was speaking (although not very clearly as I look back at my post) about the margins on specific products, not the overall gross margins of a business. I was really trying to differentiate the margins realized by larger retailers and smaller manufacturer/retailers (like the one that started this whole post). Gross margins are a whole 'nother beast entirely and are frankly pretty hard to pin down these days with all of the accounting gimmicks that can go into determining things like cost of goods sold, one-time costs, etc.

And you are correct in your assertion that ancillary support companies/positions will take a hit as manufacturing moves across boarders - but maybe not as much as you think. Although many companies have moved their plants overseas, much of their administrative staff has remained here in the US where the level of education and availability of specialized personnel (computer dorks, accountants, etc.) are high.

Again, I am actually very optimistic in my outlook for the American economy. We are still the absolute best place in the world for someone to take an idea and turn it into a successful business. We have a nation full of bright and motivated people who are willing to take that big risk and step out on their own as entrepreneurs. Our personal liberties and open market make this possible. If we allow ourselves to take the seemingly easy way out and implement overly restrictive legislation in the misguided attempt to help domestic businesses we will inevitably find ourselves in the same place as countries like Japan, Germany, and France (high unemployment, lagging economies, etc.). I'd hate to think that 20 years down the road Beijing has replaced Wall Street as the place to go for someone to start a new business. We are the best country in the world in nearly every way (economically, socially, militarily, whatever) for one very good reason - freedom. It is what has drawn people to our shores from every corner of the world and it is what has made us the single greatest economy in history. We simply can't turn our backs on it when things seem to be getting tough. We simply have to make the necessary sacrifices to ensure that this is still the country that people dream of coming to.

Dennis

[bmw500hp]

Dennis:

You are indeed well spoken but do not be confused with (my or others) attempt to speak truthfully with a lack of assertion or negative attitude towards the future. Alhough I ( our family business (s) have been impacted by foreign imports, there are still many avenues and resources to be utilized.

I don't know if I agree with with the "carriage threory" however as many foreign countries profit by "sweat shop" assembly labor (or in addition to) technological sophistication. Certainly there are highly technical assembly and manufacturing facilities in the east but one must not turn there back on the fact that many of countries exploit there citizens and subject them to horrific working conditions in the name of profit. Paul Bunyan certainly did fall to the "age of the machine" in regards to industrialization of the east, China is experiencing explosive growth that many say surpasses the United States during the industrial revolution and post war era's.

We are experiencing a decline in the middle class. Although our opportunities are still vast, the question lies as simply, "can we (the United States) establish long term economical stability" as we see the majority of our manufacturing move oversees.

The key to my thoughts lie in "middle class" and "long term". My thoughts are shared with utmost respect.

Mike

Excelent thoughts and thanx to both dhines and bmw500hp for sharing them, and though we may bore the life out of some with these posts hopefully one or more people will gain some knowledge from them.

On another note I am thinking that judging by these posts alone you guys would be great to help with some of the pro atv letter writing, and I wonder if you would be interested to help when the need arises.

[bmw500hp]

Sure lenny, no problems with that... been interested in some intense hits on the matter but haven't got enough facts to feel comfortable in debate...anyway, let me know what your thinking...actually the "all day" symposia is down here at WV University this friday. Would be great to attend but hard to justify off a day of work.

Originally posted by bmw500hp
Sure lenny, no problems with that... been interested in some intense hits on the matter but haven't got enough facts to feel comfortable in debate...anyway, let me know what your thinking...actually the "all day" symposia is down here at WV University this friday. Would be great to attend but hard to justify off a day of work.

Not easy to be loosing work but then thats what they count on.

I remember a long winded letter written for this one but I am seriously beginning to believe that its more about quantity than content.

If you hear anything of the meeting let us know.

[dhines]

Mike,

I certainly feel your concern. While I am, again, generally optimistic I do still feel some apprehension at what lies ahead. Significant change is rarely easy or comfortable and it rarely comes about without leaving some worse off than they were before. There will no doubt be some who will struggle to meet the challenges of the new global economy. I truly feel for those people who have spent their lives learning and perfecting a trade - your example of a screw-machine operator is a very appropriate example - and who will now be forced to find something else.

The fact is though that similar situations have been repeated over and over throughout history and in particular the last few hundred years. Imagine the concern of craftsmen who saw themselves replaced nearly overnight by machines during the Industrial Revolution. There were certainly concerns then that the machine would eventually put nearly everyone out of work. Devices like the cotton gin for example could do the work of many workers in significantly less time. Despite those fears, the Industrial Revolution ultimately resulted in more wealth for nearly everyone and the standard of living for people in industrialized nations has continued to climb ever since.

My belief is that there is not a fixed amount of wealth in the world – that when someone gains financially it is not necessarily at someone else’s expense. New wealth can actually be created. Why is it that machines (whether it be cotton gins or robots on an assembly line) haven't resulted in high national unemployment and an overall economic crisis? Weren’t those “evils” going to spell the end of “middle class” workers? How can it be that we're actually substantially better off now, at the beginning of the 21st century, than we were when everyone built things mostly by their own hands back in the 1700's? It's because wealth and prosperity (thank God!) are not fixed resources. Improvements in automation and productivity have allowed us to expand the number of goods and services (and accordingly the diversity of jobs) beyond anything an 18th or 19th century businessman could have imagined.

To briefly address another point, the sweatshops you speak of in other countries are one of the more unfortunate byproducts of industrialization. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that as recently as the early 1900’s the US had its own problems with horrible conditions for workers. It seems that nations go through several distinct phases as they struggle to become a fully industrialized and “modern” country and workers almost always come out on the short end of the stick early on in this process. I do feel that it is critical that the United States take reasonable measures to insure the rights of workers overseas. As in many other ways, the US must continue to stand for freedom and decency in what is still a rather uncivilized world. However, I also feel that it is important to note that what may seem to us to be onerous working conditions may seem like salvation to people in impoverished nations. For those who have faced lifetimes of suffering through hunger, disease, and poverty a job working 80 hours a week for a few measly dollars could be the difference between watching their children starve and watching them grow into adults. Overall, I have no doubt that as the opportunities in poorer nations increase so to will the treatment of workers.

All of this is to say that although there will indeed be difficult times ahead, and no doubt some jobs will continue to be lost to foreign workers, the continued economic development of foreign (and in particular poorer Third World) nations will ultimately be a boon for the global (and US) economy. Imagine 2 billion Chinese consumers with money to spend on goods and services produced by Americans and American companies! To steal a phrase from JFK, “a rising tide lifts all boats.” It might not happen overnight and not all boats may rise equally or without some difficulty, but the end result will be a continued overall increase in global wealth and quality of living.

Best,

Dennis

[dhines]

Lenny,

I'm more than happy to help out however I can. Although I have to say that I tend to have a hard time controlling myself when talking to the anti-ATV idiots. :mad: I get get so mad listening to their do-gooder bs, I can't see straight!

Anyway, let me know what I can do.

Best,

Dennis

Originally posted by dhines
Lenny,

I'm more than happy to help out however I can. Although I have to say that I tend to have a hard time controlling myself when talking to the anti-ATV idiots. :mad: I get get so mad listening to their do-gooder bs, I can't see straight!

Anyway, let me know what I can do.

Best,

Dennis

I think that the fact you do get affected by all the BS would make anything written just that more effective. I find with the right motovation I can come up with some excelent pieces and from what I am seeing so can you guys.

I will deff pm you guys when these things come up.

[ZSK]

Well, I read most of this and thought. There's not a lot of info about the studs themselves or feedback on them. Bringing this one back. Anybody have an update on these?