Best Shocks for 400ex

[Jekyl_22]

I am saving up for some shocks for my 400ex and was wondering if anyone could recommend anything. I want dual rate shocks, front & rear. Does the rear shock come in dual rate? Any help would be appreciated...

[Dave400ex]

What kind of riding will you be doing? How much money are you looking to spend?

[Jekyl_22]

I plan on doing mainly motocross and large jumps. I don't really have a set price range, but somewhere around $1800 for front & rear shocks. I plan on buying front shocks for +2 A-arms, I am gonna try and build my own A-arms.:D

[400MXer]

PEP ZPS......$895 for the front and $895 for the rear, or you can get your rear converted to ZPS for 400 and somehting.

[Jekyl_22]

Is there any difference between the PEP ZPS and the stock converted to ZPS? Have you ridden/ jumped with these shocks?

[Dave400ex]

I would get the PEP ZPS Shocks too. They are right in your price range. I`m sure there is a little difference between the two. I don`t think you will need the all new, Rear PEP Shock though. I would just get the Rear shock Converted to ZPS. It costs $425 from Baldwin Motorsports. You could spend the extra money on something else.

[Jekyl_22]

Ok, now that I've got that figured out... what is ZPS? Will my rear shock still be single rate, is there even a rear shock that isn't single rate?

[400exRacerX]

ZPS is a shock that has no preload on the springs, therefore when you go to hit jumps you can't preload your suspension to get that extra hieght. With ZPS suspension you can lower your ride hieght and they are completely adjustable.

And they do make dual rate rear shocks, my riding buy has a no-linkage 250r rear custom axis shock, that has dual rate springs in it.

[Foxrage]

Y aget the ZPS they are really triple rate. Y do you want dual rate anyway? These are what all the pros use so they have to be good.

[Dave400ex]

ZPS makes the quad sit lower. When you are in the air the shocks fully extend to soak up the biggest jumps you can think of. Your Rear shock will still be Single Rate. Most of the Pro`s run Single Rate. I wouldn`t worry about Dual Rate. Just get the Rear Conversion.

[RideRed04]

I tell ya what, I'll sell ya my stockers for $1800 with pep shock covers on them! Better yet, find a set of blown out blaster shocks, those ride awsome! All kidding aside, the peps are a great way to go. I have also heard that pro axis and elkas are great shocks. talk to gabe, he is the shock man! e-mail him and you will get a response in about a day.

[400exRacerX]

Originally posted by NACS400EX
Y aget the ZPS they are really triple rate. Y do you want dual rate anyway? These are what all the pros use so they have to be good.

He was talking about a dual rate rear, I have never heard of a triple rate rear.....

[Jekyl_22]

Thanks for the replies. Hey RideRed04, who is Gabe and what is his e-mail address?

[RideRed04]

86atc250r. His e-mail is gellett@earthlink.net. He can help ya out.

[Honda Guy]

So if you get the PEP ZPS shocks you will not jump as high?
Dont people like getting high when they jump? what the advantage to this? Also when you get aftermarket shocks what are the dis advantages.


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Taste like chicken

[400exRacerX]

If you get aftermarket shocks they will let you get higher with out the harsh landings. I don't get what you are saying by not jumping high after getting new shocks "Honda Guy" What would be the point of getting aftermarket suspension if you weren't gonna jump high? And I would have to say the only disadvantage of buying aftermarket suspension is the high price.

[Honda Guy]

400exRacerX I though you said you cant get as high, I guess you ment you can get higher.


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RAPTOR
Taste like chicken

[Mr_400Ex]

Me and Gabe use to talk to other people about shocks around a year ago on ATV Connections forums.

Anyway...

Basically a zero preload shock is set up where just the bike and riders weight WILL NOT load the suspension…. in fact with PEP ZPS you can pick the front end of the bike up and it will sit in that position till someone sits on it. The main thing they do is use slightly higher spring rates than on a normal shock. The special part of the shock is its rebound circuit and how it works. It does 2 things… 1. Keeps the bike from a bouncing after a jump, which could be caused by the heaver springs…2. It also allows the shocks to drop out fully when quad is in the air. I’ll tell what I know about each Shock….

PEP – Right now they are probably still the best all around ZPS shock. They use a works style piston, which is very Old School, but Mark Baldwin and his crew are best setup guys in the bizz, and that’s the most important part. They are also the only Shock maker that makes a true Triple rate ZPS shock (their ZPS spring is the forth spring). Their ZPS shocks aren’t as stiff as the competition. Also their shock only has about 1-1/4” of ride height adjustment. I talked extensively to Mark Baldwin at the 2000 Macon race and he said that if you it adjust more or less the shock tended to do WEIRD things.

Axis – They currently ARE NOT true ZPS shocks. They are just one heck of a conventional shock! One reason is again good setup. Another reason is they way their rezzys are made. I’ll explain more on that if someone would like to know. Axis are like most of the other newer shocks on the market in that they use a modern shim stack piston.

TCS – They were my shock of choice. Todd does a good job setting up and at the time I got them they were a good buy. The down side 2 them is that they do actually pre-load very slightly. I don’t know if I’d pay what they want for them now.

You’ll have to ask someone else about the Elka’s…I’ve never seen or ridden them so I can’t comment. They look like a real good shock though.

If you see anything wrong with any of this let me know I love to be educated :D

If you have any questions EMAIL ME (roll_tide_00@msn.com) I always set up all my friends suspension for them.

Mr_400Ex

mr 400ex, can you explain and compare the axis shock to the peps,i am going with one or the other, i like peps but i don't like waiting to get them,also i'm gonna run long travel a arms and shocks,if this means anything

[Mr_400Ex]

Are you riding MX, cross-country? If its just MX then you might want to go with the PEP shocks, but if its cross-country or both get the Axis. They can be valved so much better for cross-country than a ZPS shock can. It’ll be more of a personal preference thing really and how long you want to wait. Since it’s a long travel shock the price will most likely be in the same range.

One thing to note though; Axis long travel shock is a WORK OF ART. NOTHING can compare to its craftsmanship. Also a lot more of it can be replace if something breaks (you won’t have to replace the whole shock). The PEPS are nice though.

Oh one other thing. The only way I know of adjusting height on a long travel Axis is by removing crossovers from the smaller springs (small rings that keep the springs from compressing all the way). Since Axis shocks are not ZPS this could and probably will affect setup if you do. With the PEP you’ll get about 1-1/4” adjustment on ride height.

It basically comes down to how long you want to wait and pay. Their both great shocks in their own ways.

Mr_400Ex

while know i'm stuck between peps elkas or axis, houser said axis is what i get with his pacage so i need to know prices and info on these shocks. i like the looks of the elkas but will there long travels be as good as axis or peps. I think in the end for me it will come down between axis and elkas cause i don't think i'll be able to stand to wait for peps unless there much cheaper in price

[Dave400ex]

What Shocks should I get for XC racing, Custom Axis or PEP. I`ve talked to many guys that like the PEPs. Gabe told me he wasn`t all that happy with the Axis Shocks he was testing. He said they rode good but bottom out a lot and they were valved for a guy that weighs 35 more pounds than him. If I pay that much money for Axis I don`t want them to Bottom. I emailed Baldwin and he told me to get the PEP ZPS. Gabe ordered a set of PEP ZPS from Baldwin because all of the fast guys he races with use them. So I thought I would wait and see what you has to say about them. 465Stroker also uses them. He races in the GNCC Open A class. He is really beating his Shocks. Gabe also said PEP has the best Setup. What should I do?

[Mr_400Ex]

If your getting regular shocks and can take the wait defiantly get the PEP shocks. The only way I myself would consider the Axis shock is if I got the long travel Shock.

Also there are many more things to consider than just rider weight went talking about shock setup. That is why it is SO important. The Axis shocks use a shim stack piston which basically can be setup to dampen anyway desired. If you ever buy used shocks make sure you send them off and have the revalved for your weight AND riding style.

Your not going to beat Mark and Wayne when it comes to setup. They are the best and that’s why so many people love using PEP. That’s also why it takes so long to get them. It’s not just because they have so many on order. It’s because they treat each order as if it were Tim Farr shocks.

LRD TRX250R

Have you been to Elka’s website lately? They have a new Elite series shock.
Link (http://www.elkasuspension.com/eng/deluxe.html)
It has a very nice and NEW feature. A slow, AND high-speed compression circuit. I would love to test these out. If they can do a good setup then I bet the Elka’s are a VERY good shock.

Mr_400Ex

Mr_400EX, I saw Elkas web site advertising the new Elite Series. When I got my Elkas, I was told I can convert to the Elite Series, minus the "titanium plating" shaft", for about the same price as waiting and getting the Elite Series. So, needless to say, I went ahead and got the Elkas right away. I think I will purchase the conversion, when available.

Note: I'm am very happy with my front and rear Elkas. I also like the fact that you can get them sent out for maintenance with a fast turn around. Something to consider.:)

[Dave400ex]

I will be getting the Shocks for stock a-arms. Some day I would like to get +1 A-Arms. I won`t get the Long Travel though. Just the normal a-arms. Right now PEP is what I will be getting. The wait doesn`t bother me. I`ll have to wait and see how Gabe likes his.

[Honda Guy]

If I got the Pep ZPS shocks would half to get longer arms and if I dont get longer arms if I get them later will I need new shocks?

[Dave400ex]

You do not have to get Longer a-arms. Baldwin can set the Shocks up for your stock arms. Gabe has his stock a-arms and is getting the PEP ZPS Shocks. EX`rMarlin has stock a-arms too and has Elka Shocks. Baldwin will set it up for your stock a-arms.

If you get Extended A-Arms down the road you will not need new Shocks. All you will have to do is send them to Baldwin and have him rebuild them for +1 or whatever you get. By the time you get new arms the Shocks will need rebuilt anyways. So while he is rebuilding them he can make the change for the A-Arms.

[Honda Guy]

First Thank you all for all the information
Next How often do shocks need to be rebuild
and how much does it them to be rebuilt and how much to convert them to longer a arms.
Also if I order them from PEP will it cost more and will they do all the work also.
The reason i want to order them from Pep is because I dont want them to be red white and blue, I would prefer Them longest one to be RED and the 2 shorter springs to be black will baldwin do this?

[Dave400ex]

There is no certain time. If you ride really hard all the time they will need rebuilt more often. I guess when they start to feel different they need rebuilt. I`m not really sure. I have no idea what a rebuild will cost. To have them converted for longer a-arms could just be done while your having them rebuilt. I don`t think it costs to much. A lot cheaper then buying new shocks.

I won`t order from PEP. I would go with Baldwin. The Owner of PEP is a jerk I heard. Myself I don`t know why the Spring colors matter. You should always have Shockwears over them. You would have to call Mark Baldwin and ask him if he can.

[Honda Guy]

I have shockwears but i dont use them much i dont ride in any mud or any thing liike that VERY loose sand and some on grass. I will probably use the shock wears with $1300 shocks. I just think it would look alot better. also do the zps come with rezzys?

[Dave400ex]

They have Remote Rezzys.

[Jekyl_22]

So if I wanted to mainly jump, I would want to buy long travel shocks? If so, who makes the best long travel shocks for jumping? That will make 400ex ride higher?

no, long travel shocks are to be used with special a-arms with the mounts lower and farther out wards. You don't need long travel unless your going huge. also long travel a-arms are more expensive. The ones i'm gonna go with from houser are 850 dollars

[Honda Guy]

Do the pros (mx and gncc) use long travel shocks?

[NJ300ex]

yes all pros are running the long travel setup. In gncc i don't think everyone is though. I know the top 10 GNCC riders are .

[Dave400ex]

All of the Top Pros use the Long Travel setup. If it`s the best, they have it. Most of them use the Pro-Trax T-Pin Front End from Laeger. This lets you have up to 16" of travel. The Pros that don`t run the Laeger setup are running the Roll Design Lobo 2 Front End.

I don`t think you guys need Long Travel. I would just get some Laeger or Houser +2 A-Arms and PEP ZPS Shocks. That setup would be way ahead of the stock setup.

[tinner]

Typically,how long does it take to get the Pep shocks when you order them?

[Juggalo]

so what would be the approximate cost for a that fancy t-pin front end thing with the best long travel axis shocks you can buy?

[NJ300ex]

i think just the frotend is $2,000 and then the shocks are another $1,200. I don't know if they make the t pin front end for the 400ex. You don't need this unless you are a pro level rider or an A class rider going to become pro. Also when you get this your rear end will need a new shock and swingarm. Your looking at another $1,500 to $2,000 for that to match the performance of the front end. Your looking at the cost of a new 400ex for this stuff and i doubt you guys have that money to spend on your 400ex.

while i'll have 4000 soon so i plan to race and freestyle so i figure i can afford it. Lsr has a new style spindle thats like the pro trax front end. I think it's 1400 for the spindles alone

[Dave400ex]

Tinner, I think it`s around 6-8 weeks right now. I`m not real sure. Ask Gabe, (86atc250r) he has some on order right now from Baldwin. Or you could just call Baldwin and ask him what the wait is.

Juggalo, the Laeger Pro-Trax T-Pin Front End costs $2117.50 from Nac`s Racing. The Shocks will be around $1300. You have a total of $3417.50. That`s a lot of money on just a Front End. 400MXer said when he called and asked about the T-Pin Front End Nac`s or whoever he called said Laeger was making one right now.

LRD TRX250R, Do not get those Lonestar Spindles. If you have that much money I would buy a Lobo 2 Front and Rear End.

I'm going with a houser racing frontend (long travel a-arms and cuatom axis shocks) and a roll design rear end(roll design linkless swingarm and axis rear shock) i would get the roll design front end but i can get the whole houser setup for 2000 and the roll design rear ends 1500. I belinve the roll design front ends 2500 and i don't know if thats with shocks or not

[PhilMoore]

LRD TRX250R,

What does a link-less rear end do, that the link system does not? What is the advantage?

Thanks,
phil

you get more wheel travel out of a linkless system but the rides a little harsher

[Dave400ex]

LRD TRX250R, The Roll Design Front End does come with Axis Shocks. I would buy it for $500 more dollars. Then you would have the same Front and Rear End.

i want to keep some money left over for a lrd pipe. I am waiting to see if hosier will comeout with a rear end before i buy this stuff. He told me in november that their very close to having a linkless type rear but i haven't talked to him since.

[Dave400ex]

What Pipe are you running Now? You should call and ask about the Rear End. He might be about done now.

I e-mailed him last night and recived a e-mail back today. He said there gonna work more on gettting one done this week and to mail him back in 7-10 days. I hope he comes out with something better than or good as the roll rear end but for a few hundred less would be awsome. Right now i'm running a stocker. I am more worried about suspension than motor. Why improve a motor untill you can completely use it to it's potential.

[NJ300ex]

what lrd just said is my exact theory.

[Dave400ex]

LRD is right, you need a good Chassis and Suspension before you do anything to the Motor. Right now I want to get PEP ZPS Front Shocks and the Rear ZPS Conversion. I`m going to wait and see what Gabe has to say about his PEP Shocks though. I think he will like them. A lot of the top guys (465Stroker) use the PEP ZPS. If Gabe says they are better than his Elka, TCS, and the Axis Shocks he is testing, I will get them. I just have to wait and get some money.

[Honda Guy]

So why arnt PEP ZPS's good for Cross-country?

[Dave400ex]

Who said the PEP ZPS Shocks aren`t good for Cross Country? Most of the guys use the ZPS. I think all but the Top Pro`s that run a Lobo Front End have PEP ZPS. 465Stroker uses them and he races Open A. Gabe (86atc250r) said all the Fast guys he races with have PEP ZPS Shocks. They must be good. I just want to know what Gabe thinks of his before I buy some.

[Honda Guy]

Are you riding MX, cross-country? If its just MX then you might want to go with the PEP shocks, but if its cross-country or both get the Axis. They can be valved so much better for cross-country than a ZPS shock can. It’ll be more of a personal preference thing really and how long you want to wait. Since it’s a long travel shock the price will most likely be in the same range.

One thing to note though; Axis long travel shock is a WORK OF ART. NOTHING can compare to its craftsmanship. Also a lot more of it can be replace if something breaks (you won’t have to replace the whole shock). The PEPS are nice though.

Oh one other thing. The only way I know of adjusting height on a long travel Axis is by removing crossovers from the smaller springs (small rings that keep the springs from compressing all the way). Since Axis shocks are not ZPS this could and probably will affect setup if you do. With the PEP you’ll get about 1-1/4” adjustment on ride height.

It basically comes down to how long you want to wait and pay. Their both great shocks in their own ways.

Mr_400Ex

[Dave400ex]

I asked MR 400EX about the PEP ZPS Shocks for Cross Country and he said if I was getting Regular Shocks and can stand to wait for a while to get the PEP. He said the only way he would consider the Axis Shocks is if he was getting Long Travel Shocks.