440ex cam? gasket problems AGAIN!!!!

[mouse1]

Hi, I installed a hotcam stage one in my 440ex. I replaced the blown head gasket and I was lucky enough to get one of the bad cams. Anyway hotcams are going to replace it with a new one. Im am conserned about if i want to put the new one in because of the noise the old one made from the very begining. Has anyone installed one of the updated stage 1 cams. and are you satisfied with the amount of noise the cam makes at idle and when the engine is reving a very noticeable almost metallic noise came from my engine. might have been from the loose flange. I was wondering what kindaof cam migh be a better choice for all around power. I really dont want to install new rockers or new springs. And I am especially conserned about the amount of noise the cam makes. I hate a noisey engine. it drives me crazy.

and the next problem

I installed a new steel cometic gasket at this same time, and i did have both the jug and head resurfaced and torqued the head bolts down properly. I ran the engine for almost an hour and retorqed the bolts, then about a couple hours of riding I could see that the gasket was leaking again. This pisses me off.

I was considering the folling things to correct this and would like opinions on some of the ideas.

larger studs, where can i get these, what is the reason for larger studs when my old ones are tight, dont streatch?

different head gasket, original bored or something, any

suggestings, and if so,where i can get it.

using hondabond hi temp on the gasket that i currently have.

using indian head on the gasket i currently have

See if a maching shop can fabricate a way that the left side valve cover bolts will help hold the head like on the right side, i doubt it but who knows.

find a copper gasket

suggestions?

I want this to be the last time this motor is takin apart for a long time. I have already stripped one valve cover bolt and had to heli coil it. Oh and about the new studs, do you need to install new threads. do you use a heli coil kit. can it be done yourself. thanks for all input.

[mikeboone]

I would put the new Hotcam in and run it. I havent had any probelms with mine so far.. I wouldnt worry with larger oversize head studs as they wont stop your head gasket from blowing. I dont have the answer to the gasket problem though:ermm:

What is: "using indian head on the gasket i currently have"? How about calling LRD or TC Racing to see what he uses to seal the heads up?

[abcracing]

call mike at FDO RACING he is the one building the motor for the project quad on this site. he is a great guy and an awsome engine builder.he can help you with you problems and any new upgrades you would like. his number is 740-967-1078 he is only there in the evenings.

Thats a long list there :)

Deff slap the new cam in there and check out the timing chain real good cause the noise you describe sounds like the chain.

From what I understood the flanges made noises after they were working there way out or off of where they belonged etc.

The only noise you should hear would be from the valve ticking due to the larger than normal valve clearence used on the cam.

Are you sure that your head leak isnt from the head cover or the valve adjustment acces covers? (you know the ones that no one ever changes the .02 orings on) I say that because the oil does drip down and can look like its the head, and mine has done a great job hiding the exact places it was leaking from.

If everything shows the head gasket is at fault for the oil leak then you can look into a few things.

If there was enough material removed when the head and cyl were shaved I have heard (and may even have this problem :( ) that the studs may actually be too long to get 100% proper torque on the head, and again I am not sure on this but it was suggested to me in the past.

I have talked with people that have good results from the larger studs but never looked into it any further than that.

Just curious what side of the engine is the leak on? I have found most are on the timing chain side and thats where honda could have used another stud or what ever as there is a large area beyond the cylinder on that side.

The only thing I have heard of that seems to work 100% is to o-ring the head and thats just sounds excessive to me but if it works ...............

[jbkk]

I had larger studs installed in my 440 by Daleys speed shop ($80 installed). Rechecked a torque month later and still spot on.

[UglyMotha™]

i'm running a stg 2 cam and as i mentioned in another post the thing sounds like a freight train coming down the line:huh but i go one of the new cams but not the new new one with the flange already but anyways my flange is still tigh and my chain is plenty tight and it's not necessarily a ticking noise it's more or less a whirr noise:huh if you can imagine that sound but my rocker look brand spank me new so do the cam lobes and that's after a 100+ hrs so i'm not worried about it cause she runs like a mofo and there no noticable damage:confused2

[YZROOSTINYA]

I readjusted my vlaves to .005 and .006 from .006-.008 and it stopped making any ticking noise. It used to be pretty bad and now it isn't too bad at all
I am running the original hotcam with the loose flange. i just locteted it and no probs with over 100 hours on the cam and 50 after the loctite.

I pulled my vlave cover off and never replaced the gasket and 100% no leaks. I put a XR head gasket in and 100% no leaks

I have checked my valves NUMEROUS times and never replaced the o-rings yet and like I said 100% no leaks

either I have the gasket GYPSY on my side or I just no what i am doing.

Make sure all the gasket surfaces are clean and smooth.

you shouldn't be using any kind of bonding agent on any of the surfaces IMO.


what is making all this noise UGLY???? vlaves /piston/cam chain???

my whirs on startup because it is still tight, like it was when it was new but its not bad, sounds like a blender in water kinda

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by YZROOSTINYA

what is making all this noise UGLY???? vlaves /piston/cam chain???

my whirs on startup because it is still tight, like it was when it was new but its not bad, sounds like a blender in water kinda




i wish i knew:confused:, i've i had it apart several times and everything looks mint, the valves are adjusted properly i also have mine set at .005 and .006 and i've ran that living snot out of it matter of fact i was racing with some buddies on a very strung out track with 3 high speed straight aways where it was nothing but WFO throttle it seems to only make the noise at low rpm iv'e noticed and at idle but if you get on it the noise goes away but like i said everything is in top condition so i'm really not worried about it got over 100 hours on it so i think if somthing was wrong it would have showed up by now you know

[mouse1]

THanks guys, it accured to me that maybe I need to check my valve guids for wear. Usually they will eat up the seats, does anyone know what kinda of noise they would make. My noise is deffinetely in the valve train. I have the pro vab heavy duty chain in and it is tight, the thing is my motor didn't hardely make any noise with the old cam. The top end is fresh. I was thinking that maybe since the stage 1 cam has a more radical accent on t he lobes that it is putting more sideward pressure on the valves to hit the guids or its just that the flange was lose, and that was it. I think i might just get a xr cam.

[MIKE400EX]

If it makes a whirr(ing) noise after it's good and hot, sounds like it might be the timing chain rubbing inside on the engine case or cylinder. ARe there any unusually shiney areas on the chain other than the contact areas for the sprocket teeth? Maybe the ends or the pins?
If the valve guides wear and the valves don't seat properly you'll notice a loss of power and possibly increased oil consumption.
Try a stethascope (automotive type) to locate the whirr(ing) spot from the outside. Be careful though!

[UglyMotha™]

nope i've check all that had the head completely off and everything the chain isn't moving any so it's no rubbing on anything like i said there are absolutly no marks i haven't tried the stethascope yet though

[MIKE400EX]

Maybe the teeth on the sprockets don't engage the new HD chain as smoothly as the stocker - that could cause a whirring sound. I've heard that from timing gears/chains on car engines. Years back they used to even advertise "silent" timing chain sets. (oops - just showed my age :( )

[UglyMotha™]

no heavy duty chain on mine yet, but the more i think about it would to be possible to press the flange onto the new cam to far and the top sprocket is not lined up with the bottom sprocket and maybe there a small bind there could that cause a whir or am i just talking out my *** here:huh

[YZROOSTINYA]

not possible

tell your *** to shut up

Originally posted by YZROOSTINYA
not possible

tell your *** to shut up

:D lmao

How loud is this werr sound?

[Steven]

mine makes no such wierd noises. it sounds as good as stock after 4 months hard riding. i don't think that noise is normal

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by 440EX4me
:D lmao

How loud is this werr sound?


on a level of 1 - 10 its about a 2 it's not really loud at all

[YZROOSTINYA]

my motor did it stock till it warms up and still does it with over 100 hours modded

my other buddies does it and has is still stock

my other buddies does it too

its not bad. ALL tight motors do it!

its nothing major and you prob wouldnt notice if you were listening for it

only does it when it is cold

my YZ250 did it