Steering Stems.....

[Sparks425Ex]

Well Guys I gotta get me a new Stem. I am sick of this stocker..

What ya guys Recommend? It deff gonne be Chrome. That is the only thing that it deff has to be.

I am looking for the Best Deal.

Not nessacarily the least Expensive or the Best. But the Best for the Money.

Rico-I already know what you will recommend.

Post some Pics and tell what ya think....

[AndrewRRR]

I am going to get a chrome one too. I am seriously considering the GWC (global west) chrome stem. 4130 chromoly, tig welded, chromed, and it's only $220. Anybody use one of these?

[Ralph]

ARENS! f-chrome get quality

[Sparks425Ex]

Originally posted by Lrd Mx400ex
ARENS! f-chrome get quality

I had Arens in mind. Chrome is not a problem. If they do not come chromed I will order it raw and have it chromed. I can get it done cheap... So that is not a worry.

[AndrewRRR]

What I'm asking is besides name, what are you paying for? It looks like the GWC ones are done right (4130 chromoly, tig welded, etc.), but I haven't seen them in person. Chances are they have good welds and all.
How much do the Arens ones cost? I take it they are robotically welded like their frames?

[Nausty]

does gwc have a website? Also do they make differant sized stems like +2 higher and +1 forward?

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Nausty
does gwc have a website? Also do they make differant sized stems like +2 higher and +1 forward?

http://www.goldenwestcycle.com/
I didn't see their steering stems on the website, but here's the quote from their catalog:
"GWC Racing Steering Stem: Replaces mild steel stock stem with 4130 chromoly. Tig welded for superior strength. Triple plated show chrome finish for good looks and durability. Available in -1 to +3 sizes. TRX250r, trx400ex, banshee, raptor, Z400, KFX400
Chrome $229.99
Unfinished $189.99
Anti-vibration mount kit for std or oversize bars $59.99"

Sounds pretty good to me.

[kargaaro]

I like my Arens!! I'm sure you could order it raw if he doesn't sell chrome.

[Dave400ex]

Yep I would get the Arens unfinished and have it chromed. PM Jnine he will tell you a price...

[400exBro]

around $190 for a chrome burgard stem.... they make some good stuff,...

[remlapr]

I thought the crome burgard was about $250? And do they make a +2 up?

[400exBro]

http://www.qis.net/~harlen/burgard/400EX.html


that is the stem and anti vibe thingy too... the stem alone with chrome is 190...

[Jnine]

Heres the info you asked about for the Arens Steering Stem:

PRICE: $249 for an anti-vibe, and that includes the bar clamps in either standard or "Pro-Taper" diameter, and all the stems are powdercoated.

REASON: You asked about the best stem for the money, not the most expensive, and not the least. This is it. I should know, we made them for the factories, we tested everyone elses, and we do things the other guys can't like plating the bottom bearing stud. That's a tricky process that we had to work out, and we're the only ones that do it. The reason is the fumes will kill the welder if you do it wrong. Also, we tested every other stem at the time, and ours beat them in the tests. In fact, when Cannondale decided to test our welds against their best TIG welders, we beat them in strength also. As for material, it is 4130 and another high strength alloy, again something only we use.

[remlapr]

jnine - do you make a +2 up? What colors do they come in? Thanks for the info.

[Jnine]

All the 400EX stems are a little longer than stock. We make all of them the same length, and they are powdercoated in "black chrome".

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Jnine
Heres the info you asked about for the Arens Steering Stem:

PRICE: $249 for an anti-vibe, and that includes the bar clamps in either standard or "Pro-Taper" diameter, and all the stems are powdercoated.

REASON: You asked about the best stem for the money, not the most expensive, and not the least. This is it. I should know, we made them for the factories, we tested everyone elses, and we do things the other guys can't like plating the bottom bearing stud. That's a tricky process that we had to work out, and we're the only ones that do it. The reason is the fumes will kill the welder if you do it wrong. Also, we tested every other stem at the time, and ours beat them in the tests. In fact, when Cannondale decided to test our welds against their best TIG welders, we beat them in strength also. As for material, it is 4130 and another high strength alloy, again something only we use.

That sounds pretty good. I guess I would be more comfortable paying a little more and knowing I'm getting a really strong stem.

[Sparks425Ex]

Post some Pics of this color that they come in....Thanks...

[Jnine]

Hello Guys:

I have a pic of a Cannondale stem in that color on my web site, and I would post a pic here for you, but I'm not sure how. Can you grab one off my site www.arensbros.com?

[JOEX]

This is the one off your site, it's kinda small. If you have a larger one you can email it to me and I can ty to post it:)
joe340@peoplepc.com

[remlapr]

damn that thing looks nice - jnine, don't suppose you would want to make a custom +2 stem for me would you??

[r_racer_167mo]

Originally posted by remlapr
damn that thing looks nice - jnine, don't suppose you would want to make a custom +2 stem for me would you?? if so go ahead and make 2 of them. if the price would be around the same id get one for my R

[Dave400ex]

I have that color Stem and it looks very nice. I will take some pictures but it will be a while because of no digital camera...

[JOEX]

Bigger pics:)

[JOEX]

2

[thejeepdude]

Is the little double flange thing sticking out a couple inches from the bottom of the stem a built-in mount for a steering stabilizer? If so, which stabilizer is recommended for use with that stem?

[muff]

Originally posted by thejeepdude
Is the little double flange thing sticking out a couple inches from the bottom of the stem a built-in mount for a steering stabilizer? If so, which stabilizer is recommended for use with that stem?

i believe that is a cannondale steering stem, my friends stock cannibal stem looks just like that

so i dont think thats a 400ex stem

i believe that is a cannondale steering stem, my friends stock cannibal stem looks just like that

Beat me to it, but thats deff correct.

[thejeepdude]

John, can you confirm the 400EX stem does or does not have the steering damper mount built in?

[Jnine]

Hello Guys:

The little tabs shown on the image are the mounting tabs for the Cannondale steering dampener. The reason that stem looks exactly like the stock one (other than color) is that we built nearly every one of the stock Cannondale stems. Then Cannondale decided they couldn't pay me anymore so they started to build a few of their own before they crashed.. You know what's really kind of amusing? Last week I had a person call me saying he broke his Cannondale stock stem. I started asking him questions, and the one he snapped was one they made on their own. I could tell it was thiers because we used a couple tricks in fixturing and welding that they never caught on to, (even when we had one cut apart right on the guys desk in front of him!) and the stem he broke did not have those built into it. Oh well!

Talk to you later!

[thejeepdude]

So John... um... is that a yes or no as far as the option for a steering damper mount goes on the 400ex? Or do we just resort to a clamp on mount like everyone else does? I'm just curious because there's a thread on here somewhere that someone mentions yours as being one of ony 2 stems that have it, but now I'm understanding that only the Cann. versions have the mount. :confused:

[Dave400ex]

The 400ex stem does not have that mount on it, it's the CDale only. I have the 400ex stem and it does not have that.

[Jnine]

Sorry I missed that part.

I don't put the dampener tabs on every stem. The reason is there are many types of dampeners, and I don't know where everyone wants them mounted.

[ESR250R]

i bought a arens stem when i got my frame, i bent mine on my first wreck of the year. kinda sucks buying a new stem and having it bend right away. i am taking it out tomarrow to have it pressed stright again so i can race this weekend. i thought it was a nice stem it looks really trick but bent too easy.

[thejeepdude]

John that makes sense, thanks. So looks like my only choice when I order is regular or fat bar mounts? I'm also curious about the crash ESR250R says bent his stem.... ESR, did you bend anything else? It seems like from what I've read about the Arens stem, it's been tested to the hilt to make sure it's the strongest stem out there. That said, if you drop a car on your quad, or flip it hard enough, SOMEthing is gonna bend. So John, if this happens, can we send it to you to be straightened?

[Brad]

hey, roll design if it hasnt been mentioned its 299 lack and 350 chrome,


i think lonestar in dennis kirk is around 265 free shipping, chrome

[ESR250R]

my wreck was a tip over in sand. my friend also bent his arens stem on his 400ex.

[Sparks425Ex]

Well Guys. I have come to my conclusion:

My new RPM +1 in Bluevein will be here on Thursday.....

[Jnine]

Clearly you can buy whatever you want, but let me remind you of this:

ESR: You asked me for a stem that was extra tall over what I normally make. I didn't really want to do this, but I let myself get talked into it and I did it for you anyway, AND I gave you a dealer price on it. Do you know the dynamics of what happens in a crash? In fact, if anyone can get me the crash data on the forces involved, I can build you a stem that will never bend. However, a crash is an UNCONTROLLED event, just as the name implies. Nobody knows those forces. Some crashes are more violent than others, and although some are seen as rather easy, that is not always the case. To flip a 350 pound vehicle on it's top is a huge potential force known as a lever. Guess what, making your stems extra tall greatly increases the potential force of that lever, and that force has to go somewhere. That's why I don't like the extra tall stems. They only increase the potential leverage in a crash, but no other builder will tell you that,especially the ones you mentioned. Heres the other thing to consider... What whould you rather wreck, a stem or a frame? I have no control over what happens in a crash, and neither does anyone else. Did you torque your bars to release at the correct pressure for the angle of your impact? Of course not.. Nobody does, but the fact is that comes into play as well. Did they land on the end of the bar thus making an even longer lever and geometricaly increasing the force? Who knows? My point is all these forces are uncontrolled by anyone, (as was the entire vehicle in this case) and making the longer stems only increases the potential problems. I CAN prevent that, but it will cost you a frame instead.

I try to design all my parts so that the least expensive part gives up first. That saves you money. That's a big thing for me. In fact, as proof of that I sponsor this site and offer deals to the readers. The rider above mentioned he has found a new friend and steering stem he likes better. That's fine, but you should know I've seen their parts in testing and ours actually beat them for strength. In fact, when Cannondale decided to cut up a bunch of aftermarket stems for testing, they were downright scary inside. In fact, it kind of made my day in that ours had come through testing over anything else, and our contruction was far superior as well. However, as always, everyone is free to buy whatever they want, but if I am asked for a special setup I have to assume the person asking knows what they want and what they are doing, and if they have a problem I can only remind them we only built what they asked for. It's not really fair to come onto an open forum like this and slam my parts, especially considering it was a special request at special pricing. Perhaps when RPM sponsors a site they can offer insight into their engineering practices. That would be most interesting!

I think what the site needs is this: A forum on correct bike setup. None of this guessing and advice from riders who I am becoming convinced have not owned the parts they are recommending. I've been hitting the national races since 1990, and I can tell you exactly what the pros are running, what works, and what does not. Maybe we can end some of this endless confusion on proper setup.

[Jnine]

By the way... The top pros are NOT running longer stems on the motocross circuit. Why would they? That takes you out of a "charging" positon. However, some of the top cross country guys have a specially built stem that, depending on the maker, is a little forward or possibly taller to clear the huge fuel tank. They don't really have too much choice.

[Guy400]

Excellent info, John. There's always two sides to every story and now we know the other side.

[thejeepdude]

John, good post! I was going to post about the longer stem being a longer lever and increasing the possibility of bending, but ya beat me to it! :) That said, anyone that purchases a stem for $200 when they can get the factory stem for 50 bucks probably wants to have some kind of assurance that it's not going to pretzel just looking at it. So back to my question... if I get your stem and bend it, can I send it back to you for straightening? If so, how much will this cost? I don't really know of any places in my area that I would trust to make that alloy true again... it would always be on my mind as I was riding, unless I knew it was straightened correctly by someone in the business who would tell me flat out 'this is bent too bad you need a new one' or 'no sweat, straightened it out, good as new'.

Also, as for torquing the bars to let go before the stem bends, that's a great idea... if the crash happens to hit the bars at an angle that will cause them to rotate rather than put side-force on the bar clamps. But, wouldn't every clamp and every bar material need a different torque setting? How do you know when there's enough torque to keep your bars from moving when landing a hard jump but not so much they won't move in a crash? This idea interests me very much, please share with us what you know about this setup method.

And thanks again for demonstrating the excellent job of a manufacturer staying in touch with his customers, answering their questions, and giving them what they want!

[Jnine]

Hello again:

A torque setting on the bar clamp bolts would be nice, and it would be technically possible IF you could crash the same way every time, at the same speed, at the same angles, and on the same surface. In reality it could never work. The reason is that every crash is different, and at different angles, and the whole point I was making with the guy is that a crash is an uncontrolled event with an infinite number of variables. I guess my question would be, why crash? That makes about as much sense as "I crashed my brains out and can't figure out why I wrecked a part" Whats next? Blaming the car wash because "I blew my stickers of when I was washing my quad." As for straightening the stem, it all depends on how bad the bend it. This person told me it was bent "about 1/4 inch at the top." That's not bad for Chromoly. It can take a tremendous amount of force as long as it is not buckled. In fact, all you are doing by straightening is cold working the part. That's exactly how every aftermarket builder makes their frames, a-arms, and every other part made from bent material, and we bend it a LOT further. In fact, look at the top a-arm. Those are bent almost into a U-shape. As for your stem, find a friend with a hydraulic press and in 5 minutes your'e done. A slight bow is nothing. A bend with a very definite bending point line and a major angle is a problem.

[thejeepdude]

Well John, I have a hydrolic press, which is how I fixed my bent stock stem. However, it's not perfect which is why I was looking to purchase one of yours in the first place. My question though is what kind of mandrel or whatever do you use with the press to keep from pressing a flat spot into the tube when straightening? That's what happened to my stock stem when I straightened it. I guess maybe I'm being over-perfectionist about the straightness of the stem. If it wasn't for the fact that I need anti-vibe for the rocky terrain I ride, I'd probably just get 4 stock stems for the price of an aftermarket one and replace them when I crash. But as it stands, I'm thinking an Arens stem is in my immediate future.

Oh and to answer your question about 'why did I crash?'... well c'mon John, how do you know your limits until you've ridden well past them? :devil: All we can do is try to handle the same situation better the next time, and pay for whatever damage we caused trying to improve our riding. You're right, though... you certainly can't blame the broken parts! Quads aren't made to roll down a hill rubber side up! :blah:

[Jnine]

You are right that crashing does happen once in a while, but we've all seen guys that crash every time out, and they are just plain out of control. They need to slow down and work on the basics a little bit, or sooner or later they'll take themselves out. Hopefully not with somebosy else too.

As for the flat spots in your stem, if you are getting flat spots from your press you are putting out WAY too much pressure. I am thinking that you are pressing the stem against a flat surface to straighten it. What you really need to do is "over bend" it a little beyond the straight line position, and when you let the pressure off, it will flex back to the correct position. The way to get the little "over bend" that allows it to flex back is to set up a couple blocks about 8 ot 10" apart, and place the stem across them like a little bridge, with the bent section being in the center. Then press down on the center part until you are a little beyond the straight line, and release the pressure. The material will spring back.. You will just have to experiment a few times until you have the proper amount of pressure & springback to get the straight line. You can do it..

[thejeepdude]

John, thanks again for the advice. The problem I had with straightening it, though, is that it was bent only on the last few inches above the upper mount. The top was tilted to the right where the plate is welded onto the tube, so I didn't have 8-10 inches on either side to press from. I had to basically put a block at the top and just under where it rotates in the upper bushing in order not to counter-bend the lower part of the shaft in an effort to straighten the top part. I see what you're saying though, practice makes perfect. And I think if I have to do it again, I'll make a mandrel out of hardwood or something else semi-hard to try and keep it from flattening.

OK, so now that I'm 99% ready to plunk down the cash for your killer stem, would you say that it's worth it to go for the larger bar mounts? What are the pros and cons of each? I just bought some Renthal ATV Bend bars to replace the stock ones that were toast after the stem-bending crash. Do you think I should just keep these bars and go with the regular size mounts, or should I sell these bars to my buddy who wants them and get some fatter bars? It seems like the benefits gained with a larger diameter bar would be a moot point if the stem is just going to be the thing to give in a bad crash anyways. :confused:

[Pro400EXC]

Jey John,what will one of your +1 stem's run me? Also I am runnin a GPR Damper,so would a +1 fwd, work w/ it?



Thanks,Joe

[bongwater200]

Jnine......

Your stuff is junk. Last week, my quad stalled on a railroad track and was run over by 3 diesel locomotives, 12 lumber rail cars, 54 coal cars, 22 cars loaded with Ford Trucks, and a caboose. My quad is junk now, and I want you to refund my money. If you don't send me $14k immediately, I am going to buy a LSR frame.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by bongwater200
Jnine......

Your stuff is junk. Last week, my quad stalled on a railroad track and was run over by 3 diesel locomotives, 12 lumber rail cars, 54 coal cars, 22 cars loaded with Ford Trucks, and a caboose. My quad is junk now, and I want you to refund my money. If you don't send me $14k immediately, I am going to buy a LSR frame. LMFAO!!!:D As far as all the variables go concerning wrecks--I've lived it. I was hillclimbing with my old LT250R and I had to bail. It went *** over elbows about 8 times until it finally came to a rest at the bottom. The result? Broken headlight basket and torn rear fenders. Everything else survived unscathed. My cousin decided to attempt a wheelie at the crest of a hill and the bike rocked up onto the grab bar, he fell off the back and like it was in slow-motion the EX then flopped over onto it's top, seemingly not hitting hard. We set it back on it's wheels to find the stock steering stem folded onto the gas tank. My wreck was atrocious and no chassis parts were hurt. His wreck was slow and comical and he had to buy a new stem. When you wreck anything can happen.

[Dave400ex]

The Arens steering stem is top notch and you won't find a much nicer guy then John. When I first got my 400, I rolled it backwards down a hill having it flip onto the stem and bars, but neither were bent. I was simply riding a wheelie out of a donut on one tire, it fell over, and both my bars and stem were bent. Flipping down the hill was a MUCH harder crash, but it just happened that the bars hit flat, and not on one side like it did out of my donut. I now got a Arens stem and it is very well built and high quality, but I haven't crashed yet and am not planning on it, but if it does happen I'm sure the stem will be fine. If you want great service, great advice, and super nice products, get Arens, if not buy something else, but I'm not saying everything else is junk, because it's not.

[thejeepdude]

guy400... exactly!! except in my case, the nasty wreck totalled my bars and stem. Then I straightened it out, put some Renthals on, and let my buddy ride it in my backyard. He's never ridden a quad before and was ridin like a grandma... so I told him "hey, that thing's not just gonna throw you off, try 2nd gear and just a little bit of throttle"... so he proceeds to turn it to full lock and punch it without shifting his weight or anything :huh he jumped off and the quad rolled over in slow motion, and I could almost watch the stem bending back into that funky angle it had been just a little while before... how nice. At least the Renthals didn't bend!

The good news is, I just got off the phone with John and I got my new stem commin!! :D :D I just wish I could afford some LT arms and shocks to go with it!

[DEAL]

I'm so lucky haha, I haven't wrecked since last summer :D

[ESR250R]

john

i realize that i purchased a 1" longer stem, now i kinda wish i didnt but its too late now. i also mentioned that i wrecked in sand. imo a wipeout in sand is much more likely to wreck a set of handlebars or stem than on dirt. i didnt mean to offend u but i was just stating my personal situation with your products. again i really liked the stem, i thought the stem was one of the coolest looking ones that i've seen.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by Pro400EXC
Jey John,what will one of your +1 stem's run me? Also I am runnin a GPR Damper,so would a +1 fwd, work w/ it?

Have you had any experience using and properly mounting the GPR John?

[Jnine]

Whats a GPR?

Sounds like some kind of breathing device or girlfriends toy.

[JOEX]

WOW! Alot of good info in this thread!:) ...Now if I can just retain it it:p

Joe

[Dave400ex]

John, the GPR is a steering stabilizer that mounts on the upper part of the stem. Like what Chad Duvall runs...

[AndrewRRR]

Scotts and W.E.R make em too.

[Pro400EXC]

Well,
the WER goes on the bottom of the stem,and also i just talked to GPR and they quit making the top mounted ones,cause too many idiots broke me from not mounting them right....


But I defintley love mine,its better than them stick style ones,worth the extra cash for it...


Also if you gotta turn your wheels all the wahy to the stops,the damper just breaks away,and makes it loose for yah...

[thejeepdude]

Does GPR have a website?

[crap-banshee32]

sparks, was your new stem the one u destroyed at rausch?

that looks like a nasty wreck!!!
ill be at rausch next time!! fo sure!!

[Jekyl_22]

I saw an ad in Dirtwheels for a stock 400ex steering stem for only $40. It was some place like Factory Honda, Planet Honda, or some other Honda parts shop.

You could just have a stock one chromed, powder coated, or just leave it black. You would save a bunch of money over an aftermarket one. Because the chances are that you will bend 1 aftermarket one before you bend 6 or so stock ones.

If money wasn't/isn't an issue than I would go for an aftermarket one. I would also get that Anti-Vibration Clamp thing just to see if that helps.

ESR250R I may be wrong, but wouldn't sand be less likely to bend something because it can shift & change position and it is also relatively soft?

[INFANTRY RACING]

My stock steering stem lasted 3 years and tons of roll overs. My arens stem lasted 2 months and only one roll over. Worst part is the roll over was in first gear.

Makes me feel good i can roll my quad down a hill all day at the badlands on my stock stem but my expensive replacement bend playing around doing bicycles in the back yard in 1st gear.

[thejeepdude]

Like what was mentioned in the earlier thread, accidents are unpredictable. Some of my most trivial little rolls have done more damage than the big crashes. I will guarantee you that Arens' stem is a lot stronger than the stock stem!

[INFANTRY RACING]

in my testing i have found it not to be. I suggest you check out jb racing stems.

[thejeepdude]

Oh really? You've *tested* the strength of the Arens stem compared to stock? You mean the stock Honda stem is stronger than the stock Cannondale stem (John made those too)? Let's hear the details of your "testing". In particular, what did you do to make sure that all of the variables used to test each stem were identical? Comparing "well I rolled 1000 times on the stock stem and never bent it, but bent my Arens stem the first time I rolled" is NOT testing. That's circumstantial, relies soley on chance as far as the angle of impact and stresses the stem is subjected to, and frankly, I don't buy it. :huh

[Pappy]

Originally posted by INFANTRY RACING
I suggest you check out jb racing stems.

that sez it all;)

What in the hell is that smell in here????:confused: :huh

[BigThumper33]

It does not matter how fast your going when you wreck, if you hit it with the right force on the right angle...its going to break.

For example, I have an old warrior I used to ride. Rolled it down more hills than I can remember. Usually held up just fine after roll overs... I am putting around in my back yard, 1st or 2nd gear, doing donuts into one wheel wheelies... I come down alittle sideways..and pop, I snap my shock in half. What are the chances of that?

[monkeyboy]

Originally posted by Rico
What in the hell is that smell in here????:confused: :huh


prolly dat dam cat pisssin by da fridg a frater agan:mad:

[INFANTRY RACING]

no one on this site can think for themselves. you all buy the same exact thigs and think they are the best.:rolleyes:

I bought a meszaro antivibe stem for about half the price of most companies stems and it's worth the money for sure..:D

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by INFANTRY RACING
no one on this site can think for themselves. you all buy the same exact thigs and think they are the best.:rolleyes:

Glad to see with your 3 posts you got us all figured out. Where should I send the bill for psychology lesson?

Originally posted by INFANTRY RACING
no one on this site can think for themselves. you all buy the same exact thigs and think they are the best.:rolleyes:

I tried thinkin for myself but the got damn voices in my head keep drowning out my thoughts....:(

[Pappy]

Originally posted by INFANTRY RACING
no one on this site can think for themselves. you all buy the same exact thigs and think they are the best.:rolleyes:

actually we all ride the same quad:o

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by Pappy
actually we all ride the same quad:o

You know when I went to the dealer I bought a red one, but everytime I go ride it, it has white plastic and some Quadshop graphics on it. And I have never bought anything from them? hmmm weird isn't it.:confused2

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
You know when I went to the dealer I bought a red one, but everytime I go ride it, it has white plastic and some Quadshop graphics on it. And I have never bought anything from them? hmmm weird isn't it.:confused2

to bad....you wouldnt have spent $1500 on them shocks:devil: :eek:

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by Pappy
to bad....you wouldnt have spent $1500 on them shocks:devil: :eek:

You seem to get better deals then a lot of us. What are you doing with them Crazy Kentucky boys?:eek:

[Pappy]

hahaha...:ermm:

i get awesome deals from them and the best service.....and i did before we became friends also. i still refer business to them on just about everything(some stuff they cant get or others just have better hook ups) i guess i found a place that does it all:D