Axis Shocks

[James70214]

It does not say anywhere, but are all axis shocks zero preload?what about the $820 ones?

[beerock]

axis shocks are NOT zero preload.
They are working on a zps system now.I think they have ride adjustable height?

But I dont think they have that either. cause ZPS makes the ride height adjustable. so.

NO

there not ZPS

[trx400ex]

they have adjustable preload which is also ride hieght, so yes they can make the quad sit alot lower, or it can sit stock height

[James70214]

will they be able to sit as low as the PEP's or the TCS? Thanks Guys

[trx400ex]

yes they will, they are the best money can buy, except maybe pep zps

[86atc250r]

I don't know that I'd call them the "Best that money can buy" - I would definitely call them the most expensive money can buy...

I currently have a set of TCS, a set of Elka, and a set of Axis shocks I've been riding and testing for a while now. I've got a set of PEP ZPS shocks on the way.

For XC racing the Axis ride the best, but bottom too easily for my liking, and they were built for a guy that outweighs me by 35lbs. They sag quite a bit, but not like my TCS's. They can be made to sag as much as you like, but aren't really a "ZPS" style shock - more true to a "Double rate" setup.

The Elkas look to have the best hardware but need to work on their setup abilities. Mine are their "Triple rates", but they're more like a double rate with a small sag spring. These are the best looking shocks you'll find. Elka's can be setup to have a lot of sag, but still don't sag like my TCS's.

The TCS I have are just Works shocks with custom springing, pistons, valving and OEM Honda reservoirs - they do really well for what they are, but there's better for the money. New TCS's are Elka bodies with OEM Honda reservoirs. Basically like an Elka shock with custom valving.

Really - having great hardware is nice, but setup is where it's at. If the shock tuner knows what he's doing, he can make a set of Works steelers perform better than what a brand new set of Axis shocks will...

I'm very interested to see what my PEP ZPS shocks will do - I really hope I like them - as it stands, I'm about $4000 in the hole now on shocks (not counting the Axis shocks which are a buddy's that I've been running on my quad).

The best part - if these PEP shocks perform up to what they're supposed to, they'll cost just a tad more than my TCS's did at the time, but less than my Elkas or newer style TCS's.

Another note - almost all of the REALLY fast guys I race against all run PEP shocks (the remainder run Axis). Guess I should have learned a little more quickly - we'll see....

[Dave400ex]

Let me know how you like the PEP`s. I want to get PEP or Axis shocks for XC racing. If the PEP`s perform better than the Axis I would buy them because they are a lot cheaper. Where did you buy the shocks? Did you buy a Rear one too? Let us know.

[86atc250r]

I've got Mark Baldwin setting them up. He is doing a stock ZPS rebuild on one of my rear shocks.

What level do you race? They recommend ZPS for "A" class and above. If you're not at that level yet, you may want to consider the Limited Mass shocks which will likely provide a better ride if you're not pounding the really gnarly stuff hard, then upgrade later...

[Dave400ex]

How much does the Rear rebuild cost?

I`m just going to do the local races for now. I would rather spend the extra $150 and go ahead and get the ZPS. If I would get the Limited Mass shocks and then sold them a couple years later, I would need more than $150 to buy the ZPS shocks. So from that stand point it would be smart to just get the ZPS. Let me know what you think.

[86atc250r]

I'm not sure of the specifics of PEP's line (it's pretty hard to find good info about them on the web, which is probably why I never ordered them in the past) - but they could probably upgrade limited mass shocks to ZPS when you were ready for a nominal charge (worked in with a needed rebuild).

My rear rebuild is going to cost something like $425.

I'd talk to either Wayne or Mark and see what they have to say about the subject. Mark seems more friendly and accessible than Wayne.

[Dave400ex]

I emailed Baldwin. I hope he emails back. Are you going to do a Review of the shocks?

[86atc250r]

I have yet to talk to him about it, but I do plan on talking to him. The day I ordered them he was really busy (phones were ringing off the wall in the background) and I didn't want to take up much of his time.

Right now we've got some other stuff in the works - we should have a Maier plastic review (not sure if it's going to be the old stuff or the new shiny stuff - hopefully will know more in the next week or two) soon. We're also working with Big Gun, PRM, Graydon, etc for some product reviews in the near future.

I also plan on doing a quick update to my Wristwrester review soon...

[400MXer]

"there are four good companies out there doing no pre-load shocks, Custom Works Stadium series, TCS, Custom Axis, and PEP."

-Allen Knowles, CT Racing

Feb. 2002 4-wheel atv action. pg.75


Custom axis DOES make a zero preload shock.

[Dave400ex]

Yeah I remember reading that 400MXer. Do you know what A-arms and Shocks your going to get yet?

i plan to run long travel suspension and everyone says i should get peps but i don't feel like waiting for ever to get them,thats why i'm going to go with axis shocks

[400exRacerX]

Hey warriorman,

Why do you want Duncan Racing to modify your stock frame? Send it to me and I'll get it done for a 1/4 of the price. I'll get some pics up of my gussetted and powdecoated frame soon. But for now this is a far away shot of it,

[Dave400ex]

That`s just a joke. I can`t afford all that Duncan and Roll Design stuff. I think to have Duncan modify the stock frame costs $350.

[Foxrage]

how much did all that cost to get yours powdercoated and guesseted? Will they let me ship it to them?

[400exRacerX]

It costed me $190 for it to get powdercoated and gussetted. And my gussetts are far bigger than anyhting you will see from Duncan Racing.

[Foxrage]

I might get that will he let me ship it to them? What did you have to do to the frame for him to powdercoat and gusset it for 190.

[PhilMoore]

Gabe,

Do you like the Elka's?
What do you mean about the set-up abilities?
Did they come set-up wrong for you?


I got a set for my Banshee, and I was very impressed when I opened the box! They look awesome. As for performance... I can still bottom out my 'shee on even a medium sized jump. I finally figured out, if I turn the compression all the way max, it is much harder to bottom them out. The only other problem is the Banshee frame is such a pile, that the geometry will allow the frame to actually strike the ground! All the paint is worn off my frame! The quad does ride, jump, and handle much better than stock, but I expected them to be totally bottom proof. Now, I realize that is impossible with the stock Banshee frame.

One thing I don't like about the Elka's, and I just noticed this the other day, is: They thread the shock body almost to the bottom! This bothers me because the rings between the springs, make a "grinding" noise when they move against the threads. I got an email the other day from a guy who actually saw metal shavings coming out of this area. Originally, I didn't really think about the grinding because my works shocks do that, only not as loud. I can't see how they need threads that far down on the body. You only need to adjust them an inch or so, right? Did you ever have a problem with wear/grinding noises?

Anyway, I am seriously thinking of getting the Elka/Houser long travel set up for my 400EX. You guys are really giving PEP the hype. It sure is confusing. You are making this decision rather difficult! Now don't take this the wrong way, but my Elka decision was made based on your comments on the ATV Connection forum! That is why I was interested in your comments above, concerning the Elka's setup. I am not racing my Banshee (I have to baby it :) ) I definately will be racing my 400EX again this year. The way it sounds, if I ordered a set of PEP shocks, they MIGHT be here for the 2003 season (would like them for THIS year)! Plus, it sounds like the builders are so busy, they can't keep up. Especially, with people calling and emailing them all day, I don't see how they get anything done. I am racing amature, so I really don't need pro class shocks. In fact, too much adjustability may be a downfall for me (I just wanna ride!). I ordered my other Elka's from The Quad Shop. This time, I asked for a little heavier setup. Marty said this should not be a problem. I weigh about 205 with gear, so I asked for 230 pound setup. What do you think about that?

Basically, I need some arms and shocks for this year, I am not unhappy with the Elka's on my 'shee, so I will probably go with them again.

Do any Pro's run Elka shocks?

Sorry about the 9 chapter book, I hope it wasn't too confusing, and you have time to figure out what I am trying to say!

phil

[400exRacerX]

Originally posted by NACS400EX
I might get that will he let me ship it to them? What did you have to do to the frame for him to powdercoat and gusset it for 190.

I'll have to talk to the guy, I don't know if he is gonna be doing it right now,,,,all you have to do is strip the frame down with no parts on it at all. He sand blasts it, powdercoats it, and gussetts it all for $190.

[Foxrage]

Wow that a god price i think. I dont know if im going to do itthis winter so you dont have to wrry abut it but im going to try to do it next winter.

[mrusk]

PhilMoore- Baldwin has a 10 week wait on PEP ZPS.


RacerX- I live like 10 minutes from you in wantage, could you please tell me where this powerdercoating guy is and how to contact him?

Thank you

[400exRacerX]

Yes, this is a very good price. If you were to send all your stuff to east coast atv, you would spend $200 for the frame, $150 for the sub frame, and I have no clue on how much for the gussetting. The powdercoated is located in west milford New Jersey. If anyone wants there frames or any parts powdercoated, chromed, gusstted or polished next season drop me a line. I am still waiting on my motor mounts and throttle cover to get back from the chromer.

Hey mrusk, we should meet up sometime and ride if you want to? What do you ride a 400ex?

[Dave400ex]

PhilMoore, what kind of racing are you doing? I wouldn`t want to spend that much money on a set of Elka shocks and have them bottom out on me. I don`t know of any Pro`s that run Elka. I would get the PEP ZPS. If they have that long of a wait you know they have to be good. About all of the top Pro`s run PEP. Jones is the only one I know of that doesn`t. I can`t wait for 86ATC250R to get his PEP shocks. I want to know what he thinks of them. If he likes them better then his TCS, Elka, and the Axis shocks he was testing I would buy them without a doubt. I was thinking about Axis, but 86ATC250R said they bottom out a lot. After spending that much money they shouldn`t bottom. Right now the PEP`s are looking good. I`ll have to wait and see what he thinks.

[PhilMoore]

I will be racing amature MX. It is a local track that is not AMA. I have raced a few times over the last two years.

I have not raced the Banshee. I have only been riding it on my track, my neighbors track, and some sand pit riding. Like I said above, if I turn the compression all the way up. It does not bottom out as bad. But when I land a jump, especially in say, a sand pit with rocks, the frame hits and the rocks get scraped off the ground and go flying. When I ride on the track, I get a build- up of dirt around the arm mounts where the frame is gouging the dirt! Or, when I hit a steep jump or lip, the front of the frame actually digs in and sends dirt flying in front of me. I know it is not just my Banshee that does this, because I saw one at the races, going through the whoops, and he was eating his own dirt! :) I hate to blame it on the shocks, in fact I really can't, because it was even worse with the stock shocks.


As for the EX, I have works on there now, but, with me sitting on the quad, they are STILL near maximum extension. They do not bottom out, but going through a whoop section is not too fun. I know shocks won't make up for lack of ability, but I think it will help. I get REALLY tired in the whoops. I want something that lowers the quad, but still has good travel and does not bottom out.

[Dave400ex]

For the 400EX everything you want the PEP ZPS have. The ZPS will lower your quad and still have good travel. I don`t think they will bottom out either. For MX the ZPS is the only way to go. If you buy them now you could have the Shocks for next season.

Are you going to get the Houser A-arms too?

[stocktires]

ZPS shocks are only for pros who hit every downside almost perfect. I have front works T/R's w/ rezzys and their great and i ride/race mx. I'm gonna get mark baldwin to do his PEP valving on them and re valve them for MY weight, their set up wrong cuz i bought them used. Does anyone know how much mark charges for the PEP re-valving? And does he re-valve OHLINS shocks? I have an ohlins rear and its really soft!!! its set up wrong also!

[Dave400ex]

StockTires, PhilMoore has the Work Shocks and doesn`t like them. If he doesn`t like them he should get the ZPS. He won`t take as near of a beating with the PEP Shocks.

Baldwin will revalve any brand of shock. I don`t know what he charges for the front rebuild, but to have a Rear Shock converted to ZPS costs $425. Check out Baldwinmotorsports.com.

[stocktires]

can he do a front shock conversion? He shouldnt get a ZPS shocks!!!! YES, PEP or AXIS, or ELKA'S but not ZPS! PEP makes non- zps shocks that are for the more b & c class racer or just a rec rider. Their like only $700 (fronts)

[Dave400ex]

Yeah, I would think so. He has a picture of a Front Shock on the Services page so I`m sure he can.

He doesn`t need the ZPS, but he said he wanted the 400 to sit lower. That`s what the ZPS shocks do. Anyways, he could just get the PEP Limited Mass Fronts. Those are the ones around $750.

[400MXer]

WarriorMan

I'm going to be ordering PEP ZPS shocks and Laeger, Chrome +2 a arms.

Then over the summer, if i make enough money, i'm going to order a +1 swingarm.

[Dave400ex]

Awesome, I want to see pictures of it when you have the A-Arms and Shocks on. The Chrome should look sweet. Who are you ordering the stuff from?

[stocktires]

sounds awesome! I have chrome a-arms and they fade and get chipped. If your gonna ride a good bit of woods or someplace something can chip they or grass is gonna be rubbing on them alot you might wana just get the chrome tops and powdercoated bottoms like all the pros do! I wish i would have done than and i ride mostly MX!!! But good luck on the set-up!

[Dave400ex]

Yeah, you might want to think about the Chrome. It would look sweet at first, but if the Chrome started to chip off it would look bad.

[400MXer]

I'm going with baldwin.

i don't thing i will have a problem with chipping. all the tracks i run at are soft dirt, next to no rocks.

i would just get chrome uppers but you can't do that with laeger, and, laeger arms only come in red. if i get them in a color, I want them black! so, i'm getting chrome.

Also, i went to my engine builder today and i'll be takin' my motor to them in a couple of weeks to get built up. bored, ported/polished, piston, cam, etc.....the works.

[Clay]

I have the chrome Laegers +2+1 on my quad. I got tired of them looking so $hitty, so i painted/baked them candy blue like my frame. I am happy with that now. Even though my quad is in pieces still :mad:

[Dave400ex]

I wish you could get the Laeger 400EX A-Arms and Swingarm in Gray Hammertone. You might be able to custom order them in Gray Hammertone. That would look sweet. My brother`s Laeger A-Arms on his 250R are Gray Hammertone. They look like a million dollars.

Why don't ya buy houser products in the gray hammertone,,John probably has them in stock right now..probably last as long as laeger too..I know pro's run laeger but they've been in business long enough to have their name out there. HOuser's only been in business for a couple years and already has a great reputation.

[Dave400ex]

I think when I go to buy A-Arms Houser might be what I get. I like the Long Travel Arms.

[400MXer]

yeah, but i've got my mind set on laegers. and i need them by april for the big silverdome race, so if i custom order a color, it's gonna take a million years to get them!

I wish laeger would come out with the Pro-Trax system for the 400. I talked to the guys at nacs and they said that laeger is designing it right now. they already have the raptor one out.

[Dave400ex]

That will be cool when the Pro-Trax Front End comes out. You should wait and get one of them. LOL. Yeah right, $2100 or Something like that. That`s way to much money to spend on just the Front End. Then you would have to spend another thousand on Shocks. That will be cool when it`s out though. Kind of stupid they made it for the Raptor first.

[400MXer]

that's what i thought, the 400 is way more popular than the raptor!

how long did the you guys have your chrome a arms before they started looking like ****.

yeah, i wish i could get the pro trax setup. but if i was to get that, then i wouldn't have enough money to build my motor.

[Dave400ex]

I don`t know. A Pro-Trax Front End or Build the Motor. I think I would rather have the Pro-Trax Front End. You would have the best chassis setup money can buy. All Laeger needs to make now is a Frame.

[stocktires]

Does anyone know how much leager frames used to cost b4 they quite making them?

[Foxrage]

they still make laeger frames for like 2200 for the 250r banshee and 300ex. And they will custom make a frame.

[stocktires]

I thought they quite? Or was that Someone else? Why a 300ex!?!?!? Frames take a very long time to make so thats why there isnt much competition as far as price. I would love to have one for my R, but $2200 and a 6 month wait isnt gonna happen!

[Foxrage]

Ya i know just get gussets for it they arnt as good but alot cheaper. If i got a 250r frame it would be arens.

[indygncc]

The best man to deal w/ when it comes to Suspension is Santo Derisi, he runs the GNCC series in the pro ranks....That is what he does is work on shocks and sell them..check out his website and give him a try..www.derisiracing.com he deals w/ all shocks works,PEP,Axis,Elka etc.......

[Dave400ex]

I think Laeger still makes Frames. I`m sure they do. Most of the Pro`s run Laeger Frames. I don`t know why he would stop making them. They were $2310 from Nac`s. They don`t have Laeger Frames in the new Nac`s Catalog. Call Baldwin or Nac`s and ask them if they still do.

Arens would be a really good Frame for you. They are a little bit cheaper, and I don`t think the wait would be as long.

[400MXer]

fella's fella's, i just ordered my a arms and shocks.

i took your advise and i am getting powdercoated a arms, for the bottom. I talked to baldwin and he can get me black bottom arms, and i will still have some chrome with the uppers. So i'll have black lowers with chrome uppers. +2 laeger a arms, and PEP ZPS shocks with black PEP shockcovers. Then i'm going to send in my rear to be converted to ZPA. I AM PUMPED

[Dave400ex]

Awesome. Did it cost extra to have the Bottom arms Black and the Tops arms Chrome? That will look sweet. Let me know how you like the PEP Shocks. I am looking into Shocks right now.

[Foxrage]

Im gettin the houser a-arms with red lowers and chrome tops and pep ZPS and axle here in a month or so. I cant wait i hope my mom lets me do it but i never know she should let me because i passed all my proficiancy. Im keepen my fingers crossed.

[400MXer]

well, it was $100 extra for the chrome uppers, but no extra charge for the black lowers.

And my PEP shocks come with PEP shockcovers for free..just thought i'd let ya know. I'll have to see who makes those shockcovers because i am sponsored by Outerwears.

[James70214]

Laegers does NOT make frames anymore. They said that they stopped because everyone was coppying their design, but they will be coming out with frames in about a year or so.

[Foxrage]

I think laeger and lonestar are the some because Kory Ellishas a laeger frame and stuff but he has a ton of lonestar stickes on it.

[51]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
I wish you could get the Laeger 400EX A-Arms and Swingarm in Gray Hammertone. You might be able to custom order them in Gray Hammertone. That would look sweet. My brother`s Laeger A-Arms on his 250R are Gray Hammertone. They look like a million dollars.

dude i love my hammertone a-arms and swing arm... i think chrome would look awsome too though!

[Dave400ex]

400MXer, I wonder if you would of got all Black if Baldwin would of charged you extra? If not, I will get the Gray Hammertone. I love how that looks.

You better get free Shockcovers. You just spent $900 on front shocks. That`s the least PEP could do.

51, I`m sure you do like your Hammertone A-Arms and Swingarm. I love how it looks too. Of course Chrome would look good. It always does. Until it started to chip it would be the best looking.

[400MXer]

Kory Ellis runs lonestar Axles and hubs. everything else is laeger.

Are you sure they stopped making frames?

WarriorMan
I was just saying that i am sponsored by outerwears, and they give me the hook up on shock covers. And, according to them, i'm only supposed to run Outerwears shock covers.

[stocktires]

400mxer,
Did you get plain +2 a-arms or did you get +2+1? or +2+1/2?
Always get forward a-arms for MX!!! They are soo much better and they put more weigh on your rear tires so you have more traction! Its the best set-up for MX! +2 is more for play riding and desert i believe! Call mark and see if he can hook ya up w/ some +2+1/2's or +2+1's? glad ya got the chrome tops and black bottom's! It seems like it would be a little bit cheaper though!

[PhilMoore]

400MXer,

If you can't find an Outerwears label on them, you better not use them. Be loyal to your sponsor! (and send those other covers to me... :) )

[400MXer]

I got plane +2. i did this because i am planning on getting and extended swingarm this summer.

and, since i am going to get an extended swing arm, i should just get +2.

PhilMoore those covers are gonna be spares.

[James70214]

Yeah I am sure Laeger stopped

[Dave400ex]

400MXer, I`m sure you will love your A-Arms. You can just call Outerwears and say you need longer Shockwears.

Why did Laeger stop making Frames? He made a lot of money from Frames. May be he is going to come out with a New Design.

[400MXer]

that's my guess. Probably a new frame that's better than the roll design lobo frame, and any other frame.

[Dave400ex]

That will be cool if Laeger comes out with a New Designed Frame.

[stocktires]

they should come out with an economy type frame!

[NJ300ex]

If they do build a frame thats better than the roll lobo and they make it cheaper they will be selling alot of frames.

[James70214]

That is why they stopped because other companies were copying their design. They will definitly come out with a new and better design

[Dave400ex]

Good. I hope Laeger gets back on Top. That would be cool if he made a Frame for the 400EX.

[James70214]

Bump for a dead thread that had some good shock information

[YLW400]

Did GAbe ever do a review of fhis PEP shocks?

[forum]

i didn't wanna read all the stuff inbetewn so somebuddy might have said this. But axis shocks are not zps! i don't care what anyone says they are not. YOu can find people saying they are in magazines all you want. If you beliave everything what magazines say then you have a poisoned brain. In every isue of dirtwheels they say something that i can't help but shake my head. I wonder how these guys and gals got there job.