John Arens a-arms?

[TagRider]

Anyone know when John's a-arms will be finished? I know he's going to be selling stuff through this site (and I want to buy them to help support this place) but I haven't heard John say when they might be done. I know CT Racing and Nac's carry Aren's products as well and the Nac's website shows John's 400EX stuff for sale but it shows all sold out on everything. I called Nac's and they told me they're taking orders for the new 400EX stuff but they haven't actually received any of it from Arens Bros. They told me all the chassis stuff has been backordered for 2 months or more and they expect maybe another 2-3 weeks for the a-arms.

John, if you read this, any more info than that? I'm really itchin' for your chassis parts. I see a lot of these other manufacturer's parts that look like they were just made in their garage without any mechanical engineering knowledge. This stuff is a science and some guys think they can just bend some tubing, slap a balljoint on the end of it but then when you call them and ask them some questions they don't even know what you're talking about.

[motoboy66]

I was just going to start this same thread. I was on Arens site last night and was wondering the same thing. If you do read this John, What will you have for a long travle EX front, +2+1, +2, +1, ect? I am impressed by your products and a-arms are in the future, so I hold they come out soon, but not befor August,thats when my raise comes at work. I know my sig says I want merrell's, but they keep raising thier price. Every time I check back with them it is more $. Well I'm at work and not supposed to be here, but this site is so hard to resist. At least it isn't porn.

Todd

[cableman]

i emailed john about the a-arms and he said they were going to be a little more than +2. should be out in a few more weeks.

[Guy400]

I talked to John about 2 weeks ago and he told me the same thing. The arms are actually a hair over +2 and they should be done in 2-3 more weeks. My new front end has been completely purchased but I'm just waiting on these arms. I don't know anything about Nac's policy on advertising parts so I really can't comment on that. I'm just hoping John's new arms are here soon. The poor EX has been up on jack stands for over 2 weeks now:(

[400exBro]

ya same, i am wanting to purchuse a set of +3+1 lt a arms, will there be a exriders sell for these??

i am very intersted...

[nacs400ex]

I have heard some people on here say that on a 400ex you shouldnt get +1 forward, only on 250r's. Give me your opinions, and why.
Thanks
Craig

[Guy400]

Originally posted by nacs400ex
I have heard some people on here say that on a 400ex you shouldnt get +1 forward, only on 250r's. Give me your opinions, and why.
Thanks
Craig I can't speak for John but I'm sure I remember him saying that for the 400EX frame Honda engineered it a little differently to eliminate the need to go +1 foward with the a-arms. They built it into the frame.

[400exBro]

the only reason why i am going +1 is becuase i will be doing the yzf/ex conversion this winter, to balance it out (the rad and all that stuff at the front).. other words stay at +1,2,3 +0 for 400exs

[Derek]

Originally posted by nacs400ex
I have heard some people on here say that on a 400ex you shouldnt get +1 forward, only on 250r's. Give me your opinions, and why.
Thanks
Craig

People think It make your front end drop in the air a little more. But infact it does the exact opposite. It moves the center or gravity forward making the front end go up in the air.

[stocktires]

Word!
Im waitin too! I have a few dollars saved, and am waiting to see the Arens LT arms (If made for a 250r) before I buy any.
I like what I see in the JRD +3+1 arms, but those dont come cheap!

[Derek]

Yea, if the arms are the same quality of Arens other products and the same prices compared to other companies, ill be purchasing a set.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by stocktires
Word!
Im waitin too! I have a few dollars saved, and am waiting to see the Arens LT arms (If made for a 250r) before I buy any.
I like what I see in the JRD +3+1 arms, but those dont come cheap!

Gentlemen, the quality of the JRD does not dissapoint :muscle:

[brif]

Originally posted by motoboy66
I was just going to start this same thread. I was on Arens site last night and was wondering the same thing. If you do read this John, What will you have for a long travle EX front, +2+1, +2, +1, ect? I am impressed by your products and a-arms are in the future, so I hold they come out soon, but not befor August,thats when my raise comes at work. I know my sig says I want merrell's, but they keep raising thier price. Every time I check back with them it is more $. Well I'm at work and not supposed to be here, but this site is so hard to resist. At least it isn't porn.

Todd Arens has a website? Whats the address?:)

[nacs400ex]

I wanna do the conversion too, but what the difference going to be in getting +1, it wont give you more room to get a rad in. If infact what Derek is saying, I wouldn't want +1's

[400exBro]

no you have more wieght in the front... that way it will balance it out, plus you should get a +1 or +1.5 swing arm... a lot stablier...

i know what i am doing, i talked to people, forum, banks and bubs i believe are running +3 +1

[TagRider]

Anybody hear from John anything new?

[QuadTrix6]

Originally posted by 400exBro
no you have more wieght in the front... that way it will balance it out, plus you should get a +1 or +1.5 swing arm... a lot stablier...

i know what i am doing, i talked to people, forum, banks and bubs i believe are running +3 +1


if u get +1 forward a arms it makes the front lighter and the rear heavier

[stocktires]

Originally posted by QuadTrix6
if u get +1 forward a arms it makes the front lighter and the rear heavier

exactly! Thats what you want if your putting more weight in your front end (radiator & bigger oil tank) like a yz426f set-up.

Bro seems like he knows what he's doin to me

[nacs400ex]

alright I was just a little confused. Thanks for expaining.

[Jnine]

Hello guys:

This A-arm ball joint stuff is going to drive me nuts. Heres what is happening.

As you know, the key to any A-arm design is the ball joint. Any designer has to know all the specs to any ball joint before they can design the arms. I wanted to use a joint very similar to the Cannondale joint, and I had an arrangement to make them in conjunction with Cannondale. Basicaly they owed my company a HUGE amount of cash, (Enough for a REALLY nice new truck) and in exchange for me ripping up some invoices they were going to make some ball joints for me. Then a week later Cannondale crashed... That threw our A-arm project into a tailspin. At that point I had to search out another ball joint option. I found one I liked quite well, and I wanted to use it, but that company became very afraid of screwing up their Honda contract since they make them for Honda. Oddly enough, just as I was to sign on with that company, the original maker of the Cannondale joint called me, and said they wanted to work together. I said fine, I'll take 1000 of them. They said great, and then they disappeared. Just like you guys, sometimes I can't some SOB to call me back either. That brings us to today... Heres what we have....

We have 3 versions of A-arms all designed, and ready to go. All we have to do is set the end angle and we can start making them the next day. However we can't do that until we know the limits of the ball joint.. Each design is a little over +2 wider, and not forward.

VERSION 1: 4130 tubing, Adjustable top arm, for Camber adjustment, and fixed lower arm. Shock location is set for the standard length shock. Powdercoat finish. Cost will be $500 or maybe a few bucks less.

VERSION 2: 4130 tubing, Adjustable Camber on top arm, fixed lower arm. Shock Location is set for Long travel (19") shocks.
Powdercoat finish. Cost will be appx $600

VERSION 3: T-PIN... This will be the top of the line A-arm setup. This is a Pro-Level arm, but it won't be cheap. (appx $1500) It will be like nothing else you have ever seen however, and will perform extremely well. Oddly enough, we're probably as close to getting this design out as anything else. All the analysis has already been done, and some of the final modeling was finished yesterday. By next week we'll be machining some of the parts for this one. Back to the other stuff however.

You guys have a point.... I need to get off my butt and get these other two designs completed. That means I'm gong to have to call and raise some h--l with the ball joint people. We need to get these done so we can all ride. I even need some on my own quad too. I PROMISE I will call tomorrow and I'll let you know how it goes!

Tune in tomorrow.

[JOEX]

That means I'm gong to have to call and raise some h--l with the ball joint people.
I guess you'll be putting thier balls in a vise:D :p

Joe

[Guy400]

John, thanks for the update on where you're at with your stuff.

[Juggalo]

jnine,
maybe this is a dumb question but why can't you just manufacture your own ball joints!?

[dawzie]

jnine "really nice new truck" are we talking pickup or peterbuilt ??

[Jnine]

Hello Guys:

We are going to make some of the parts for the ball joint. The problem is, machining the parts and inserting the stud into the socket is one thing, but then it must have the liner material injected into the socket also. The special tooling built only for that purpose cost Cannondale 30K. Obviously I don't want to buy that tool, so we need to work with a manufacturer.

As for the truck, it would be a really nice pickup. 4 wheel, extended cab...

[465Stroker]

Jnine - Is their a new design for the Cannondale balljoint that will give a much longer lifespan - or was there a flaw in the original 01 - 02 model Cannondale A-arms design that promoted premature wear? We have (2) '02 model cannondales (ohlins front shocks) that the balljoints are completely worn out within 20 hours of ride time. These also have been replaced several times since the quads have over 100 hours on them. Any ideas? I have an '03 that has been flawless - but as far as I can see the balljoint for the older and newer C-Dale models are the same exact design. Thanks.

[400exBro]

so you won't be offering +3s in lt ??

that t-pin sounds like a nice set up...

[Jnine]

Hello guys:

You are right on the money about the Cannondale ball joints. There were differences between the earlier and later models and the ball joints they came with. It was not the size however. There was a material change and that is the reason why the late model joints hold up much better. There were also a few things discovered in manufacturing that made a difference also. Obviously we're using everything we've learned.

Talk to you later!

[racerx573]

How will your t-pin front end compare to the Laeger's Pro Trax set up? Will it be offered in +4?

[TheChknhwk]

No +1's? Or can you accomplish the same width as a conventional +1 setup w/wheel offset? If so what would it be; I don't particularly want +2's for trail riding.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by TheChknhwk
No +1's? Or can you accomplish the same width as a conventional +1 setup w/wheel offset? If so what would it be; I don't particularly want +2's for trail riding. If you run 4/1 offset wheels you'll lose some overall width.

[Dave400ex]

Sounds great. Guy the only problem with that is most guys want +1 and then still the 4+1 rims. I personally want stock length LT arms with 4+1 wheels for the races around here because they are extremely tight. So John, please make some Standard Length (+0,+0) and (+1,+0) 19" LT a-arms for us XC racers. :D

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
Sounds great. Guy the only problem with that is most guys want +1 and then still the 4+1 rims. I personally want stock length LT arms with 4+1 wheels for the races around here because they are extremely tight. So John, please make some Standard Length (+0,+0) and (+1,+0) 19" LT a-arms for us XC racers. :D Are you going to get a narrower rear end and different offset rear rims as well? The stock EX front end is 42" wide and the rear is 45" (give or take a 1/4"). In order to bring the rear end down to the width of the front you'd have to go with a -1 axle and then change the offset of the rear rims to boot. I don't see the point of narrowing the front end so far if the back end is wider because afterall, both ends have to fit between the trees.

[bmw500hp]

I dont know Dave's thoughts on this but fitting between the trees is one thing and the nible handling of the +1 /4:1 offset is adding another dimension. With my combo of JRD XC 1's and the 4:1 rims, the quad seems to "bite in" and "carve" right through tight woods trails. The turning response is best explained as quick..and accurate. It's not as good If I switch to standard offset rims and thats not a greatly different offset.

[Dave400ex]

Guy at first I wanted to go with the +1 arms and 4+1 rims because that only makes it a half inch wider then stock or so. After racing I want it skinner then it is stock, so I would like to go to standard width LT arms with 4+1 rims, standard offset rear rims, and the RPM XC axle that is -2+1. My 400 is wider because of how much the Elka's sag. An A class rider had his Gas Gas down to 43 inches, which is quite a bit skinner then mine, and he is also going a lot faster then me so he has a better chance of rolling/flipping. I just want to know how much skinner the 4+1 rims would make it on stock width?

[JOEX]

Originally posted by Guy400
Are you going to get a narrower rear end and different offset rear rims as well? The stock EX front end is 42" wide and the rear is 45" (give or take a 1/4"). In order to bring the rear end down to the width of the front you'd have to go with a -1 axle and then change the offset of the rear rims to boot. I don't see the point of narrowing the front end so far if the back end is wider because afterall, both ends have to fit between the trees.
It's not so much fitting "between" the trees, it's avoiding hitting them. I'd rather hit them with the rear tires than the front:p I have two bent tie rods and three damaged front rims to back that up. Yes it's mostly pilot error, but i'm sure at least one of those trees jumped out in front of me:o :p

Joe

[TagRider]

John, have you talked to the balljoint people yet?

[Jnine]

Hello guys:

I did talk to the ball joint socket people and I got the one I wanted, so we'll be cutting parts for them for the next couple of weeks.

As for A-arm width, our A-arms will always be in the the +2 range or a little over. I have to build what the majority of riders would like, and that size leaves them the most choices with tires & wheels. The factories are never going to build a motocross width quad anytime soon, so that's where I have to be. As for a stock length A-arm, there would never be enough demand for it to make it worthwhile building the fixtures. Why would anyone buy a stock length arm from me when they can go to the dealer and get one? Remember I have to build at least 100 of anything to make it worthwhile. As for your suspension compressing and the quad getting a little wider, that will happen, but it is really splitting hairs. The reason the quad bites harder in the corners is because it is digging in and trying to roll over. If you like that feeling, try changing front tires to something that really bites in the corner. The terrain we ride on is dirt, and it is constantly changing, so fine tuning your quad for the perfect setup is kind of a hit & miss thing anyway. There will always be some guy who claims to have the perfect setup, but at the end of the day I guaranatee you it is 90% rider. A half inch either way won't make any difference to a top level rider. Don't get so wrapped up in the setup head games. If you want a faster quad, learn to ride it better, and you can beat more guys that way than any other way that I know. I know most of the pro mechanics and the riders, and most of the time the riders don't even ask what the mechanic did as long as the quad is ready to go out onto the track. In fact the last time Doug Gust asked his mechaninc Tom Carlson (TC) about the setup, TC said: "Just go out and ride it boy" That's probably good advice for us all.

Talk to you later!

[Jnine]

As for the Gas Gas rider on the narrow quad, if I were him, instead of worrying about how wide his quad was, I would be MUCH MORE concerned about it finishing at all.

[Taco]

From what I am getting from all this is your going to focus more towards the MX guys and not even worry about the XC boys. +2 Aarms dont belong on an XC quad at all.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Jnine
As for the Gas Gas rider on the narrow quad, if I were him, instead of worrying about how wide his quad was, I would be MUCH MORE concerned about it finishing at all.

hahahahhaa....rotflmao

i take it you dont find the gas gas particulairly useful:confused2 :D

[Jnine]

Most of the CC riders that I know run the stock setup. That doesn't leave anything for me to make for them. What are you thinking they need?

[Pappy]

john...if you build it...they will sell. 100 +1 arms would sell easily

[Taco]

+1s and set of 4/1 offset wheels seems to be an extremely popular setup in XC. I believe that there is a need for more longtravel +1 aarms b/c about every manufacturer makes standard +1s.

[Dave400ex]

John I agree with going to buy a stock width a-arm at the dealer, but what about making some LT arms that are 3/4 to an Inch wider then stock? That's what XC guys want, +1 arms, and there is no question a market for those a-arms. Like I told you at Red Bud, our courses around here are very tight so I would love to have a stock width LT setup, but with the 4+1 rims I could get a 3/4 to Inch over setup. Something to think about. I agree with TC too, but it's always nice to have an edge...

[Jnine]

That's a big bet... 100 sets of A-arms costs a LOT of money to build, and if you are wrong and they sit on the shelf forever... I'll make you a business proposition.. You put up the cash to manufacture 100 sets, and I'll make them however you want, and we can split anything left over. That's basically the thought process you have to go through on any new design.

[Dave400ex]

Tell ya what we can do, if we can get so many buyers before hand would you make some?

[jlhughes750]

Also stock width arms have no caster adjustment , xcers will by the aftermarket arms for that reason alone.

John u say that most XC racer use a stock set anyway, i guess you have not been at a GNCC since like 1989. Nearly every bike at the GNCCs is hooked up with everything you can bolt on. No link rears long travel frts. i do see your position for sure i jsut don't want people to think that all the XC bikes are stockers.

its tough to decide what to make and there is for sure more of a market for +2's then anything else, i think John is making the best decision here!!!!!!!!!!


later, J

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Jnine
That's a big bet... 100 sets of A-arms costs a LOT of money to build, and if you are wrong and they sit on the shelf forever... I'll make you a business proposition.. You put up the cash to manufacture 100 sets, and I'll make them however you want, and we can split anything left over. That's basically the thought process you have to go through on any new design.

i hear what your saying...i just purchased $80,000 worth of new product to take to market. worst case is that i will have to move them at a 5% over cost at the end of 60 days. 60 days is the magic number for when you start losing 2 to 4 % per week of your investment. but....if atleast 50% of that product sells at a 50% mark up then im in the black.

i reckon its those that take the gamble that reap the rewards. it would be interesting to know what it costs to produce those 100 arms....i might be interested:)

[bmw500hp]

60 days...lol, try to project and manufacture 1/2 a million in product (my cost) (6-months out) just to get a "jump" on the season, then ship the finished product 6 months from that date then began and carry your bills and costs while working with other vendor...this is the recipe for a capitaliztion and projectional nightmare.

I am right here if anyone wants to gamble in this marketplace!

:devil

[Guy400]

I'm no GNCC racer but if my 51" wide LT250R could fit through my trails at speed a +2 400EX front end could fit with room to spare. If it doesn't fit I grab the chainsaw and modify my trail system:D

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Guy400
I'm no GNCC racer but if my 51" wide LT250R could fit through my trails at speed a +2 400EX front end could fit with room to spare. If it doesn't fit I grab the chainsaw and modify my trail system:D

come to a gncc:D more then once i have taken my hand off the bars because i just knew i was gonna nail a tree with my hand:confused2 racing xc is NOTHING like trails. ill try and get you a few pics since those that are making the products and supporting them dont wanna get muddy:devil :blah

[remlapr]

Does anyone currently even make a +1 long travel a-arm setup for the 400ex, that would be sweet. I thought you had to get into a +2 or +3 to go long travel?? And you can put me down for one set of the standard travel +1's pappy :D Only 99 more to go...

[remlapr]

Oh - and Jnine the new nerfs looks sweet, if they were only propegs I would already have some on the way :( , is there a propeg version in the works :confused:

[Pappy]

lol...i think houser makes them for the R...burgard has made them for people....but truthfully i dont know of anyone that makes them on a running basis.

i would be concerned of the shock angle on a +1 LT:confused: i dunno if that would be a concern or not.

the current set up we run on the Z is a +3/4 but they are standard shock length. and even that is tight on some sections.

[Jnine]

Hello Guys:

When I was talking about Cross Country stuff, I was really thinking about the local events that I can attend more often. I do usually get to a few of the national GNCC events however. Also, I know that Cross Country riders do bolt on lots of parts. You are definitely right about that. I was only thinking about the width however since that's what we were talking about.

The thing is, I have to decide on a few designs and go with them. I know some companies will make one of everything, but that's not very efficient, and usually not a product worth owning. The way they do that is to make adjustable fixtures, and every time you take your fixtures apart you screw with the tolerances. That means the chance of something not fitting right goes through the roof. I never want to take that risk.

Here's the deal..... I'm not gong to rule out another A-arm length, but let me hit a couple GNCCs and see what they are running. I'll do a little research before we do anything. Also, I have to get the 2 new frames and the other A-Arms into production first.

Talk to you soon.

[Dave400ex]

Sounds good to me. May be by the time you make them I could have the money. lol

[TagRider]

Any realistic time frame on your chassis parts? Now that balljoints have been procured when can we expect to see these aarms and frames?

[forum]

john. it must be hard taking all these coments about what you should do. But atleast that means people are interested right?. Just build what you think is best. I personaly would build an LT arm +3 cause thats what most of them are. I don't think i've seen to many +2 lt's if any. I figure if the person can afford an LT setup with nice new LT shocks then they can afford some 4-1 offset rims. But your the expert. not me. Im pretty sure Roll design makes +1 LT arms too. I have the JRD LOBO ripoff Arms. they work awsome. Im running +3 with hiper 4-1's. my front end is about 49 inches. I would have baught yours if they were already out and they were +3's. oo well. good luck with your ball.joints........... haha. why wouldn't wou use hiems? like the lobo's?

[Foxrage]

A-arms sound sweet i cant wait to see them done. What about the swingarm? How is it going anything special about it? How much will it be? Thanks

[Guy400]

My rear shock from TCS is in transit and my fronts are there waiting on John. Todd @ TCS told me he's just waiting on the a-arm specs from John to finish setting them up and they'll be done. I sure hope these arms from John get done soon:(

[TagRider]

any new updates since you got your balljoints you wanted?

[310Rduner]

hey John,

i for one am glad you are making lt arms in +2 because i have been looking into plus 2's for this summer, but have no need to be at +3 arms, and dont want to hassle with 4-1 rims and would prolly never get hypers so being able to get rims and run lt will be very easy now.

also your prices are Great, there will probably be a surge in people purchasing lt arms because the tcs lts shocks are only 750, so going lt will be no more expensive than reg length.

:D

[Derek]

Originally posted by 310Rduner
hey John,

i for one am glad you are making lt arms in +2 because i have been looking into plus 2's for this summer, but have no need to be at +3 arms, and dont want to hassle with 4-1 rims and would prolly never get hypers so being able to get rims and run lt will be very easy now.

also your prices are Great, there will probably be a surge in people purchasing lt arms because the tcs lts shocks are only 750, so going lt will be no more expensive than reg length.

:D

Whoa did i miss something? Since when will the arms be Long Travel?

[Guy400]

John said his first a-arms are going to be long travel followed afterwards by the standard travels. After those 2 it will be the fancy set-up like Laeger's T-pin.

[Derek]

Originally posted by Guy400
John said his first a-arms are going to be long travel followed afterwards by the standard travels. After those 2 it will be the fancy set-up like Laeger's T-pin.

OOOOO alright.....must have just missed a reply or something.

[310Rduner]

hey john,

do you know if you will have them available in triple chrome, and what kind of cost will that be?

if they dont come in chrome what would be the price to have them unfinished so we could get them chroemd ourselves?

Great thread, and now its back on top :)

[Dave400ex]

John anymore updates on the A-Arms? I haven't read or heard anything about them coming in upper chrome, but I'm sure you could get a set unfinished and have them done.

[TagRider]

I guess I've given up on Arens' a-arms. We've been told for months that the stuff was just a couple weeks away but we never see anything. Then we heard a balljoint had been found and the arms are just a couple weeks away. Now we hear nothing anymore and I get a new Dirtwheels to see John working on Z400 frame parts. Don't get me wrong, John's entitled to making whatever he wants to make but it just bums me out that we were told since January that the stuff was right around the corner and it just never shows up. John's stuff is the best but I can't sit on my money all summer long. I've got to move onto some other manufacturer just to get riding again.

[stocktires]

Originally posted by TagRider
I guess I've given up on Arens' a-arms. We've been told for months that the stuff was just a couple weeks away but we never see anything. Then we heard a balljoint had been found and the arms are just a couple weeks away. Now we hear nothing anymore and I get a new Dirtwheels to see John working on Z400 frame parts. Don't get me wrong, John's entitled to making whatever he wants to make but it just bums me out that we were told since January that the stuff was right around the corner and it just never shows up. John's stuff is the best but I can't sit on my money all summer long. I've got to move onto some other manufacturer just to get riding again.

WURD! Luckily Im not in your position yet. I do agree though that this is not looking good on John's part. I know he makes very high quality parts, but dang, Tagrider's right, you can't expect everyone to just wait untill ya build the arms to buy some, I know I wont...... time is money

[TagRider]

And I'm not here to bash Arens' Bros. either. I'm just displeased with the wait on the parts. It's not even the wait but the fact that we were told they'd be done a long time ago. If we would've been told the arms wouldn't be ready until August I would've held off on revalving my Axis' shocks. But, when I heard it was only going to be a couple weeks I had my shocks revalved and now I've got shocks that are no good on stock length a-arms. I'm not paying to have them revalved again just to wait even longer. I'll just go with another brand of arms instead.

[Jnine]

This will be my last post on A-arms until they are in a box with a FedEx label on top.

We have taken a long time to make these A-arms. There are many reasons, but it all boils down to this:

I will never sell any part until it is the very best I can possibly design and make it.

I've sold A-arms before, but they looked just like everyone elses, and they were fine, but to tell you the truth, I never really liked that design very much. Theres no point in just building the same thing everyone else does. We ALWAYS try to bring something better to the table. That's undoubtedly cost me a H--l of a lot of money over the years, but it's my name and reputation on it. The last thing this sport needs is another cobbler in their garage pawning off parts. There are plenty of those guys, and oddly enough they are more expensive than my stuff. My goal in this design was to bring out an entirely new set of A-arms in 3 styles, and under the other guys in price. That is happening. It's probably not on everyones timetable, and I would have obviously liked to have sold new A-arms all spring. After all, it's not cheap to get your name on the top of this page, and we're going to have to sell one h--l of a lot of arms to make it work out.

I am beginning to wonder if price even matters however. In fact, why should I bring the premium design, and sell it for $200 less than the other guys, or why does a guy with AXIS shocks not own Doug Roll A-Arms? He makes some really nice parts. Most guys in this business make parts 1 at a time, and they build only for today until they get another hobby, and then they move on. I have to do this for a future. Making one part is easy... making 100 to 1000.... That's a whole different game. When the parts are ready, whether they are nerfs, bumpers, frames, stems, or bars they will leave.

[anywhereEx]

Amen....

Eventhough it is taking him some time look at what he is producing and what the cost are. I know I talked to him about a full rolling chassis(sp?) and his price blew everyone else out of the water. So I will gladly hold my money in my pockets and wate for a quality product along with a good price.

[gojk]

I think the timetable is fine. Cause if you had them now I would buy them now and I don't have the money. I will deff have the money waiting when they are ready. Keep up the good work. Maybe now all the companies will try and knock off your design, but wait, you are cheaper anyways so why would anybody settle for a knock off. You have awesome work ethic and that is why your company has an incredible name in this industry.

[Dave400ex]

Good things come to those who wait! ;) Look at all the guys waiting on PEPs, it's worth it, wait...

[JOEX]

Originally posted by Jnine
This will be my last post on A-arms until they are in a box with a FedEx label on top.

We have taken a long time to make these A-arms. There are many reasons, but it all boils down to this:

I will never sell any part until it is the very best I can possibly design and make it.

I've sold A-arms before, but they looked just like everyone elses, and they were fine, but to tell you the truth, I never really liked that design very much. Theres no point in just building the same thing everyone else does. We ALWAYS try to bring something better to the table. That's undoubtedly cost me a H--l of a lot of money over the years, but it's my name and reputation on it. The last thing this sport needs is another cobbler in their garage pawning off parts. There are plenty of those guys, and oddly enough they are more expensive than my stuff. My goal in this design was to bring out an entirely new set of A-arms in 3 styles, and under the other guys in price. That is happening. It's probably not on everyones timetable, and I would have obviously liked to have sold new A-arms all spring. After all, it's not cheap to get your name on the top of this page, and we're going to have to sell one h--l of a lot of arms to make it work out.

I am beginning to wonder if price even matters however. In fact, why should I bring the premium design, and sell it for $200 less than the other guys, or why does a guy with AXIS shocks not own Doug Roll A-Arms? He makes some really nice parts. Most guys in this business make parts 1 at a time, and they build only for today until they get another hobby, and then they move on. I have to do this for a future. Making one part is easy... making 100 to 1000.... That's a whole different game. When the parts are ready, whether they are nerfs, bumpers, frames, stems, or bars they will leave.

I truely hope you reconsider your first statement:(

I don't think people are complaining about waiting for products, it's what may seem to be false promises on delivery. I know it's not your fault another company was late getting parts to you but keeping everyone informed on the status of the process will help alleviate some of the restlessness.



I will never sell any part until it is the very best I can possibly design and make it.

I belive you 100%. You are a very well respectedf member of this community. Statements like that with follow through will make you the #1 builder worldwide which i'm sure you already know. Couple that with your direct interaction with the consumer that you have been doing, it is incredible what you can accomplish.

I'll try to ignore the first few lines in the last paragraph :p

Joe