TC mx cam specs...

[Glamis400ex]

Hey all,

I tried using search but came up empty on this one. Does anyone with experience with a number of different cams, care to detail the action of the TC mx cam? I read that Tom doesn't specs, what is his cam compared to? The all around, or track cam or stage 2?

Comments??

Glamis

[Dave400ex]

Yeah he won't give out any Spec's, just the grind number. Tommy and a few other guys have this though. I know it's suppose to be close to one of the Web Cams...

[Martin Blair]

Tc racing is a great company but for cams i recommend the stage 2 hotcams

I know it's suppose to be close to one of the Web Cams...

Well that shouldnt be a suprise since most builders cams are web cams.

Then again most of the aftermarket cams (besides Honda's HRC) are web cam grinds.

interesting huh

[Dave400ex]

Yeah I'm not sure on that, but I think it is close to a Web Cam, but I have no idea which one. All I know is everybody likes the TC Cams that I have talked to...

[465Stroker]

The 400EX TC MX cam that I have seen uses stock springs and is geared more towards torque just like his GNCC cam.. As far as it being a webcam - they do not make them for him - nor does Hotcams. I have personnally seen the book of TC's that has hundreds of cam profiles drawn. Actually, it you watch cloesly on the more popular models - TC usually has one of the first cams out on the market - followed by Webcam and Hotcams! So I wonder who is doing the actual R&D?

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
Yeah he won't give out any Spec's, just the grind number. Tommy and a few other guys have this though. I know it's suppose to be close to one of the Web Cams...

You know, this guy may build some bad @$$ engines and all, but not giving out specs is just plain stupid. Why would I pay money for something that I know nothing about, and can't compare it to competing products? If I wanted to copy his cams, I would need the tools to make cams, and if I had that, I would have the dial to check cam specs. So all I would need to do is buy one & copy it to my hearts content. Not giving out the cam specs is just piss poor customer service done by an ametuer businessman. I believe that Sparks does the same. I know that there are a lot of TC faithful, and I am not bashing his products, but I do not think that it is a good business practice to do what he does w/ his cams.

Buy a Hot Cam.

That is my .02, and I am off the soapbox...

[Dave400ex]

Rick thanks for clearing that up. I will be getting his GNCC Cam hopefully this summer or fall. Didn't you run stock springs and rockers for 3 years with one of those Cams?

Vegas they only do that because if you have all the Spec's there are some companies that will make you a custom cam. I believe Sparks does that for the same reason...

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
Vegas they only do that because if you have all the Spec's there are some companies that will make you a custom cam. I believe Sparks does that for the same reason...

Yeah, I remember Tom saying he didn't want to give out specs for that reason, but it's BS. All we (ATV owners) get for specs is lift & duration, but there is a lot more to a cam than just that. You couldn't make an EXACT copy of a cam w/ just lift & duration, but they (TC & Sparks) won't give you that info. Look in an Edelbrock, Comp or Crane Cams catalog & you will see specs (like lift, duration, LSA, etc.). You're not going to be put out of business by giving somone a couple basic specs, but poor customer service will bring an end to you in a hurry. When I talked to both Sparks & TC, I was told why they won't give out specs. I say their reasoning is flawed, and as a result, since they won't give me info I want, I won't give them money they want. It's just a personal decision. I say buy from a company w/ good customer service & good products (having one or the other doesn't cut it anymore). Just because someone makes a good product, it gives them no right to treat a paying customer so poorly...

Rant off, flamesuit on :D

[Tommy 17]

i have the tc mx grind cam... to me it seems like its a all mid range and top end cam... it has no low end and hte motor likes to be rode hard... it u let of at times and get back on it theres a slight pause in the motor till it hits mid rpm then it takes off hard...


i had about 2 ride with my lrd pipe on the quad b4 i sold it and it fixed the low end problem... it pulled really hard the whole way... i never got to really tell exactly how it was bc there was snow on the ground and i was on 20 tires not my reg 18 inch...

i've rode xr400 camed and a hotcam staged 1 400 built buy the same builder as me... only differnce was they were stk bores with differnt cams and mine is a 406 with the tc mx grind cam... you could tell the differnce the cam makes... it was very noitcable and the one guy is actually gettin rob to put a tc mx grind and a 426 in it...

cam was 205+ stk cam

[ChadEXer]

I guess thats why Ive caused so much TC controversy, is because Im willing to put up with "poor"(although it hasnt even been poor in my case) service to get the best product which I see most people arent willing to do. But the way I see it is I would rather be treated like an everyday Joe or worse and have the fastest bike out there, then be treated like a King and not even place at the races!! When I spend my hard earned money you can bet your arse I want the best. Yeah maybe its a damned shame that you have to put up with a little BS to get the best products and we think why cant the people with the best products have the best service, but sometimes it just doesnt work that way! Now this absolutely goes for having a motor built or something similair, but of course there are many different circumstances where customer service is #1 to me,,,you know if I was to hire a hooker or something:o

[Dave400ex]

I don't think it's bad customer service just because you won't give out Spec's, but that's my opinion. I have had nothing but good luck with Tom's service and products. I also would not pay for a crap product, more less one that is going into my motor. Some people think Sparks never has any problems, I heard from the 400ex yahoo email group a while ago that one guy sent this motor to Sparks and got a motor back with what he wanted done, but when he checked the vin number it was not his motor he sent...

[trx400ex]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
I don't think it's bad customer service just because you won't give out Spec's, but that's my opinion. I have had nothing but good luck with Tom's service and products. I also would not pay for a crap product, more less one that is going into my motor. Some people think Sparks never has any problems, I heard from the 400ex yahoo email group a while ago that one guy sent this motor to Sparks and got a motor back with what he wanted done, but when he checked the vin number it was not his motor he sent...

well with that many 400ex motors, im sureprised it wouldnt happen more often.....thats not really a customer service prob. unless sparks knew they sent him the wrong one

[BigThumper33]

When dumping as much money as a good Sparks motor costs, I would hope he could spend the extra 5 minutes when making up the reciept and check the darn vin numbers.......

Small parts I could see, pistons, cam etc....

But to send out the wrong motor :eek2: but I don't you will hear of that happening very often. I've heard many great things from Sparks fans.

[Chino]

I've personally had nothing but good dealing with tom he sent my cam out in two days my core charge back in 5 days can't say a bad thing about him really. The cam i got seemed to gimme alot more bottem end with my 416 kit i have the 926 gncc regrind and i could tell alot of difference. just my .02

[Bill Fuller]

Iv'e been running a TC XC cam now for almost 3 years,same cam 2 different 400's.Thats what you pay for!

[Castor-426ex]

im sorry but i have to say this...the Reason TC has two *** cheeks is one for Warriorman and one For ChadEX!!!:D :D :D


ill just stick to my lil 426:)

im sorry but i have to say this...the Reason TC has two *** cheeks is one for Warriorman and one For ChadEX!!!

LMFAO and you know the grind for those??????????????? :D :eek2: :devil

I think that those guys devotion to Tom does tell us something and I do seriously take both their opinions into consideration every time I try to call mr tc, but then Chad has to go and talk up all the customer service stuff and I get so confused since I remember him waiting almost a year (maybe more I think) to get his motor back. sure it seems to be a beast but you could have been on your second motor in that amount of time :D :blah

I dont expect any of these guys to be giving up numbers on the grinds etc (especially since not all of the cams are special anyhow, and some are just using the web cams. Sorry but I dont have the list of what ones are the same handy) What I do expect is that these guys take the time to explain where there cam will hit and not etc since you have not one bit of info to go on, and I am not big on blind faith when it comes to parts and money etc.

[ChadEXer]

I guess maybe you dont understand 440EX4Me, sure it took Tom 8 months to build my motor and I could have been on a second motor by then but the thing is that first and second motor combined by a regular builder wouldnt be as fast as mine! Thats what I waited for. Call Sparks and ask him how far he is out,,,last I checked it was 12 months and getting worse,,,is that bad service??? What im saying is my experience with TC Racing has been great, I havent had any problems, but i have heard a few say their not happy with the service, but to me even if I wasnt getting the best service in the world, I would still stick with the best...
I think we all need to stop all this TC BS, maybe some are jealous they dont have a TC motor, and maybe some just like to start $hit, but the point is any given one of you would send your motor to TC if you had the money,,,,and if you wouldnt then thats just fine,,,,,Ill see you at the races..:eek:

[Dave400ex]

You guys just don't understand. Not only do I like Tom for building Digger's motors, but my Brother's 250r motor is a complete TC National motor like Doug ran in 99 to win the championship. Oh and you want to talk about customer service, Tom called us to see how the motor was running and if it was ripping it up. We also waited 6 months for my Brother's motor, but after we did, first thing my brother said after he rode it the first time is man am I glad we waited. You guys can say whatever you want, but from my experiences with Tom, we have had top service and great products. Oh and my brother at his first race, got stuck in the gate, came out last, and still by the middle of the 1st turn was 5th out of 14 guys.

Oh and to the retard that posted that above, once you have a TC motor, you will know why we respect and like the man... ;)

[monkeyboy]

i like da topgunn movie wit tom in it...:p

[ChadEXer]

I think 440EX4ME is right about something, that our "devotion" to TC should tell you something. Tom hasnt sponsored or paid Warriorman or I anything, but it sure is funny we are the only ones on this board that actually has experience with a motor built by TC...Thats all it takes.

[Castor-426ex]

Oh and to the retard that posted that above, once you have a TC motor, you will know why we respect and like the man... ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

if that was directed towards me..you can just plainly kiss my *** buddy

it was a joke

all i know is if i want customer service I know where not to go;)

[Dave400ex]

I was joking too man simmer down. I don't care what anybody thinks of Tom, I have had good service and great products...

I don't see where you guys get bad customer serivce. He has always been more then helpful on the phone to me. So maybe he was behind on shipping a pipe, ever think he had to make it first or he may not of had the throttle cable in stock.

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
I was joking too man simmer down. I don't care what anybody thinks of Tom, I have had good service and great products...

I don't see where you guys get bad customer serivce. He has always been more then helpful on the phone to me. So maybe he was behind on shipping a pipe, ever think he had to make it first or he may not of had the throttle cable in stock.

If your personal experience has been good, that is all that should matter (to you). I think I was one of the first to bring up poor customer service (actually I think I said piss poor customer service, which may or may not be worse). I'll tell you where I got it from: 1) it took forever for Chad to get his motor back. True, Chad never complained (at least I never read any complaints), so he must have been fine with it. Had I been in Chad's shoes, I would've been seriously ticked. It is all just about personal preference. Chad was okay w/ the wait, I wouldn't have been. 2) not giving the cam specs. Again a personal thing. I understand that he thinks people may steal his cams, but that can be done by purchasing one. Him not giving me the lift & duration is the same as him calling me a thief. 3) I believe that he won't give HP #'s, but prefers to let on track performance speak for his products. Great, so for the right amount of $$, I can have him build a machine that is identical to Gusts' (or whoevers') machine, I can then go & put my 16 year old sister-in-law (who has never ridden) on it & she will be just as dominating as a pro rider, right? I believe that Chad's sig says something about riding being 95% rider & 5% machine, but according to TC, it is 100% machine. Like I said earlier, I don't doubt his products are great, but I won't put up with what others have.

Again, it's all about personal preference.

[BigThumper33]

Well being that I know Tom is geared more towards the torque aspect of engines, do you think that him not giving out HP numbers is a reason?

To the average joe retard, all they are concerned about is horsepower....from what I understand Tom's motors are geared more towards torque than just horsepower numbers. By simply giving out horsepower numbers that may seem lower than another builder, the average joe retard will decide not to go with him. It's all business....

I'm not saying this is true, but I think it makes a point....

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by BigThumper33
Well being that I know Tom is geared more towards the torque aspect of engines, do you think that him not giving out HP numbers is a reason?

To the average joe retard, all they are concerned about is horsepower....from what I understand Tom's motors are geared more towards torque than just horsepower numbers. By simply giving out horsepower numbers that may seem lower than another builder, the average joe retard will decide not to go with him. It's all business....

I'm not saying this is true, but I think it makes a point....

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. But isn't HP just a function of torque? The more torque you make, the more HP you make, right?

[BigThumper33]

I'm not engine expert. But torque and horsepower do not have to go hand in hand from what I understand. I know most aftermarket headers with their wider pipe adds horsepower but your torque goes down. Same with some camshafts..

When in business I think you have to expect every customer to be a moron, or uneducated on the subject. I'm sure there are exceptions where if Tom gets to know you he would probably tell you some info, but to protect his wallet, he might not give out that info.

We here at exriders like to know the facts, but in the large scheme of things we are few and far between. I know of many people that have money, but no brains, just tell me how much horsepower ill get for X amount of money. If Tom where to try to explain how he likes to use the torque of the motor rather than horsepower it would be like teaching a blonde how to drive a stick....know what I mean?

You have to expect your talking to a wall....

Again I'm not saying this is fact or how he runs a business, but I'm just trying to bring another view on how a company does business.

[Dave400ex]

I agree with both of you guys. I just want to know why nobody complains about Sparks when he has a longer wait then TC, and he doesn't give out Cam spec's either. I think some of the guys on here just like to start crap. Tom is way more in to torque then anything. Most of his motors are built for all torque...

[MXQUAD294]

This from the April '97 edition of The Inside Line from the ATVConnection.com written by George Davis (pre-********.com days).

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by BigThumper33
Well being that I know Tom is geared more towards the torque aspect of engines, do you think that him not giving out HP numbers is a reason?

To the average joe retard, all they are concerned about is horsepower....from what I understand Tom's motors are geared more towards torque than just horsepower numbers. By simply giving out horsepower numbers that may seem lower than another builder, the average joe retard will decide not to go with him. It's all business....

I'm not saying this is true, but I think it makes a point....
Man you hit the nail on the head!! Every and I repeat EVERY person that goes to build a motor asks about HP, usually the first thing asked!! I did too! Tom said dont worry, your bike will be a beast, I said I understand but I want some numbers. After talking to Tom on the phone numerous times I started to understand the way he does things, and it makes as much sence as babies needing milk! Tom builds EVERYTHING in his motor geared towards torque, His cams, his pipes, his porting, all of it. One day he said Ill give you HP numbers but it really doesnt matter, the torque numbers is what will amaze you! Tom told me my bike(on gas) will put out about 55+HP, but not to be surprised if I beat a bike that has 65-70HP on the track becasue I probably have twice as much torque as him!! Torque and HP do not go hand in hand at all,,,think of a tractor pull, one has 1000HP and 2000ft lbs torque and the other has 1500HP and 800ft lbs torque,,which one will win,,,,,the higher torque tractor will hands down!! ATV racing, especially drag racing like I do, is just like a tractor pull, a single cylinder 400 or even 505cc bike is pulling around(in my case) a 200lb rider!! Thats a lot of weight(not even including the bike itself) for that small of a motor!! And just for chits and giggles I raced a Wild DS 650 on alcohol that said he dynoed at 86HP and I beat him down the track every time,,on gas!!! The fact is we have heard and seen over and over that TC engines are always on top! Any engine builder with that kind of reputation is going to me bombarded with things to do and therefore cut into customer service, just like any growing business, (even though my customer servicw was great),,,,just like Sparks(that nobody seems to b!tch about). Some of you guys can sit around and b1tch about TC Racing all you want, the fact is, if you want the fastest motor thats where you need to send it, and I think we all know that!
Tom is the ONLY one that has ever built a 400EX motor to go 4.7 in 300ft(thats Cody Jordans TC 490EX) that was on gas and the stock chassis! The track record here in TX is a 4.13 thats on a complete drag chassis Banshee!! If thats not amazing tell me what is. The only 4 stroke I have ever heard of breaking the 5.0 mark!! Now think what the 505 on alky and a complete drag frame will do??? Nuff said!!!
Vegas, yes it took 8 months to build my motor but I knew that when I sent it, everyone knows a pro builder will take that long, Sparks is even longer, but its weel worth the wait to me!!

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by MXQUAD294
This from the April '97 edition of The Inside Line from the ATVConnection.com written by George Davis (pre-********.com days).
Thats cool! I remember Tom telling me that in 1998(dont remember what races or what class)all of the top 10 guys had engines built my him!!

[Taco]

If torque was so good for racing then why dont they use Diesel's in Nascar or NHRA?:huh

Originally posted by Taco
If torque was so good for racing then why dont they use Diesel's in Nascar or NHRA?:huh

Shut up and quit causing problems...this is your last warning...:uhoh:

[knighttime]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
Thats cool! I remember Tom telling me that in 1998(dont remember what races or what class)all of the top 10 guys had engines built my him!!

too bad its 2003 and thats not how it is NOW :scary:

[punker69q]

torque and horsepower are directly related...

hp= (torque*rpm)/5252

where torque is in lbs/ft

example: an engine produce 150lbs/ft of torque at 7000 rpm

hp=(150*7000)/5252= 199.95 hp @ 7000 rpm

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by punker69q
torque and horsepower are directly related...

hp= (torque*rpm)/5252

where torque is in lbs/ft

example: an engine produce 150lbs/ft of torque at 7000 rpm

hp=(150*7000)/5252= 199.95 hp @ 7000 rpm

Thanks man, I knew they were, I just couldn't remember that formula.

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by punker69q
torque and horsepower are directly related...

hp= (torque*rpm)/5252

where torque is in lbs/ft

example: an engine produce 150lbs/ft of torque at 7000 rpm

hp=(150*7000)/5252= 199.95 hp @ 7000 rpm
That makes absolutely no sence at all,,,Sorry!!
How does the new Ram R\T 10 make 500HP and 500ft lbs torque at 6,000(i think)RPM,,,plug that in your formula, it just doesnt work!!

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by knighttime
too bad its 2003 and thats not how it is NOW :scary: Oh yeah, well ask Doug Gust, you can usually find him on the podium at any national race:rolleyes:

[Taco]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
That makes absolutely no sence at all,,,Sorry!!
How does the new Ram R\T 10 make 500HP and 500ft lbs torque at 6,000(i think)RPM,,,plug that in your formula, it just doesnt work!!

I'll lay $2g down that it doesnt make 500HP and 500ft/lbs of torque at the same RPM.:D

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
That makes absolutely no sence at all,,,Sorry!!
How does the new Ram R\T 10 make 500HP and 500ft lbs torque at 6,000(i think)RPM,,,plug that in your formula, it just doesnt work!!

It won't make 500HP & 500lbs or torque @ 6k. It may make one or the other (prob the HP), but peak torque will come at a much lower RPM. That formula is correct. I have seen it many times in hot rod articles, engine building books/articles, etc. In the articles I have read, they are always talking about v8's, but I would imagine that the formula would work on any internal combustion engine, regardless of the # of cylinders.

[ChadEXer]

Dosnt make any sense to me that a formula would work on any given engine to turn torque numbers into HP numbers, but I have a friend thats all into hot rods and building engines, Ill see what he says.

[MXQUAD294]

Originally posted by knighttime
too bad its 2003 and thats not how it is NOW

Your write it is 2003! How time flies.
Here's a short list of a few people using TC Four stroke engines for 2003.
Gust
Luburgh
Byrd
Diver
Dunkelberger
Moore
Creech
Wimmer

Ever heard of any of these people?

[MIKE400EX]

The formula is correct and applies to any engine.

The only time that HP and torque can be the same number and at the same rpm is at 5252 RPM (500 ft-lbs. of torque @ 6000 RPM =571HP also at 6000 RPM). That would be fun!

Think of torque as the amount of twisting action that an engine can produce. Horsepower is the rate at which it can perform the twisting action (the amount of twist it can produce for a given time period).

What you need to be concerned with is the average amount of horsepower (or torque) that an engine produces in the RPM range that you use it. Your bike will almost always produce lower lap times with a little less HP, but over a broader range, then with a higher peak HP over a very narrow range. It'll also be a lot easier to ride quickly.

Again of of course JMO.

[VegasEx'r]

This has bveen an interesting thread. It went from a simple question, to criticizing/defending TC (& to a much lesser degree Sparks), to the relationship between HP & torque. Hopefully my comments haven't pissed anyone off (I was just venting a little & what not).

I must say though that all the criticizing, etc. could have been avoided if Chad simply had a decent camera to take pics of his beast! It's all his fault!

:devil :macho :blah ;)

[Dave400ex]

LMAO. Vegas I think your right. Actually Chad whatever happened to having a guy take pictures for ATV Action?

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
LMAO. Vegas I think your right. Actually Chad whatever happened to having a guy take pictures for ATV Action?
Well the guys at ATV Action told me to call the local college photo class and get the students to shoot the pics for me,,,not only would they get a credit for a national magazine but ATV Action is even going to pay them. Well i called the college and the lady at the front said they would be happy to do it for me but would have the photography instructor call me because he was in class at that time,,,well to make a long story short we have been playing phone tag for the last 2 weeks! I wanted to get the pics taken and sent off to ATV Action ASAP, but we have big races coming up in 2 weeks(Texas Sand Drags) and I wanted to make sure I had my bike lowered and on alky by then so I went ahead and took it to my friend who built lowering struts for me. I havent even told ATV Action that Ive lowered my bike yet so I dont know what they will say, I know they liked it the other way, but I guess well see. I will send DJ(at ATV Action) an email and tell him what Ive done and see what he says!!
Anyway, who cares about all that HP and torque BS, I definately dont know much about it!!! But I do know mines got plenty of both!!
Vegas, Im going to try to get some good pics up soon, I know my camera is definatley a POS!! What can I say!! I have no money left for a good camera!! But really as soon as I get my carb back on and do a few finishing touches I will get some good pics up!! If you havent seen this POS pic yet, it will give you an idea of what its going to look like!!

[Chef]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
I guess maybe you dont understand 440EX4Me, sure it took Tom 8 months to build my motor and I could have been on a second motor by then but the thing is that first and second motor combined by a regular builder wouldnt be as fast as mine! Thats what I waited for.

I wouldnt go so far as to say your motor is twice the motor of anyone elses...

Also, I have experienced a TC bike first hand. It had chrome a-arms, all axis, a +6 swingarm and 22 inch 12 paddle haulers. I had stock full plastic, a +2 swingarm, muddy black water all over my bike, 8 paddle haulers, and a beat up stock color frame. He was sure pissed off. :eek:

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by Chef
I wouldnt go so far as to say your motor is twice the motor of anyone elses...

Also, I have experienced a TC bike first hand. It had chrome a-arms, all axis, a +6 swingarm and 22 inch 12 paddle haulers. I had stock full plastic, a +2 swingarm, muddy black water all over my bike, 8 paddle haulers, and a beat up stock color frame. He was sure pissed off. :eek:
First of all a TC bike is one that TC built, not one that has a TC piston kit! What size motor did he have. Besides its pretty easy to beat a EX with 12 paddles. 22inch and 12 paddle Haulers would be way too much for my 505 much less any other 4 stroke,,,was he able to turn them at all?? Basically Chef, you can put 12 paddle Haulers on your 440 and Id be willing to bet $100 that I could beat you with a stock EX with 8 paddles! If I had to guess I would say you made this up to give yourself credit, but if it is true I dont guess its really much to bragg about:huh