Finally time to rebuild

[bkelley]

Hey guys, it's been a while! Hadn't had much time to ride over the past few years, got busy with life and whatnot. But the last time I took out my quad it ran great all day and then shut off on me right in the middle of the trail. I noticed smelling oil, had a trail of oil in the dirt behind me and the oil tank was bone dry :uhoh:... I got towed back to the truck, packed it up and it's been sitting in my garage since. Again that whole life thing prevented me from digging into it and figuring out what happened. Wishful thinking is just had a seal break somewhere. I'm going to start tearing it apart today but I'm considering going to the 416 or 426 kit. Figured might as well if I'm gonna pull the motor out and do most of the work. It's been a few years since I've looked into any of this stuff so if any of y'all know of some sites that still sell the kits I would appreciate you helping me out!

In the mean time, it's off to the garage.

[honda400ex2003]

wiseco pistons are still available just about anywhere. have it ready when you take it to get it bored or send it with when you do. im sure almost any of the builders would still do it, along with any local machine shops that would normally do boring. id check with a local dealership or something and see who they use, that would save a bit of hassle if it is local to you. you will pay big $$ to have a bigger name place do it for you.

did you find out what happened with it? anything get down into the crank area on it?

if it was me, id do some valve seals while you are in there, get the valves lapped and cleaned up too. (you can probably take it to the same machine shop to do the work)

know what compression you are going to go with? note that with that sparks advance key that you will to take it out to get the proper TDC and if you are going more than 10:1 i wouldnt recommend using it anyway. maybe a 3° if you can still find one around but i doubt that one of the guys on here is still going to make one for you. i had a 3 in my 416 10:1 with my 450 carb and it ripped with a stage 1 hot cam in it. beat my buddies 11:1 with a stage 2 in it a time or two.

quality parts are mostly still available it seems, other than the very custom exhausts which you have already with the e-series.

steve

[bkelley]

Steve, good to see you still bless the forums with your knowledge hah!

So the timing key issue did cross my mind. I have the stock one... somewhere. I planned on putting it back in or buying a replacement stocker to put back in. I like to go 10:1 so I can stay on 91 octane and maybe throw a stage 1 cam and 450r timing chain. Don't need anything too crazy, just want to keep her running strong. I do have a local shop but while researching prices to have the cylinder machine on my dad's 350x they we're the cheapest. Found some shops to send it to online that had better prices.

Unfortunately didn't get very far with the tear down the other day. Was only able to drain the rest of the oil out and pull the plastics off before the fiancée got home and had other chores for me. But, while draining the oil it had a grey/silver shimmer to it :ouch: so there's that... The only place I can seem to find oil is on the front sprocket cover and chain guide. Not really sure where it leaked from exactly. No seals seem to be leaking, oil is just all gunked up around the front sprocket.

[honda400ex2003]

youd still be able to run 11:1 on 91 octane if it is good stuff. I have done it for years in my machine with no adverse affects.

Although, 10:1 with a stage 1 is a great setup as far as fun factor is concerned, youll like it. you could also do a pro x chain or something stronger than an OEM, not particularly a 450 timing chain. they are just as strong and less hassle to put in as there are better clearances for the 400ex versions.

hopefully you find the leak, if it is leaking around the seal for the sprocket, youll have a bit more fun with it than you expect. :)

idk about blessing the forum but i do stop in every now and again.

steve

[DragonGunner]

I ran a JE 10.8:1 as a 416, nice set up and ran 93 octane….really not that much difference in price to bump up to a sure safe Octane. I run a wiseco 11:1 with 93 octane now in a 406. My buddy had a stage 1 hot cam, it was ok in mud and tight trails, its low range cam. Most go with the stage 2 to take advantage of the higher compression, its more of a mid range and give ya better mid to top. I think the JE piston are a lighter weight than the wiseco so it will rev a little faster also which is also good, which is why I like the smaller high compression pistons. Have had the 428 and 440 also. My smaller bores rev faster and quicker imho. Good luck on your build.

[bkelley]

Got it out of the frame (http://i.imgur.com/pkVoLXz.jpg) so far haha. Haven't had much time to work on it so it's slow going. But going none the less.

[bkelley]

So looks like the piston (http://i.imgur.com/7myZEnN.jpg) and cylinder (http://i.imgur.com/qDnFsp3.jpg) got scarred up pretty bad when the oil leaked out. Good thing I was already mentally prepared to bore it. Only place I could find evidence of an oil leak is on the left side crank case (http://i.imgur.com/numFMyB.jpg). Y'all think enough oil could have leaked out of there? My dad brought up a good point, when we pulled that left side off to put in the Sparks key we just reused the old gasket. Could have blown after a few years of riding.

Also, I can't seem to find any stock timing keys online and I have no idea where my old one is... Any ideas on tracking down a stock one or have the contact info for the custom made +3 ones?

[DragonGunner]

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053dd21f870021c54bdc1b8/crankshaft-piston

[bkelley]

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053dd21f870021c54bdc1b8/crankshaft-piston

Sweet! The couple OEM part sites I was looking at didn't have them. Thanks brotha.

[bkelley]

Okay so I'm getting my build list together...


11:1 87mm piston (JE or Wiseco still undecided)
Stage 2 cam
HD cam chain
Cometic top end gasket kit
OEM woodruff key
Left crankcase gasket


Anything I'm missing? Also, how necessary is the HD cam chain? If the stock will do I'd like to try and stick with it. But if it's gonna sacrifice reliability I'll get the HD chain. Trying not to break the bank... got a wedding in October of this year and medic school starting next month.

[DragonGunner]

I'm still running stock timing chain on the 99, I think the HD timing chain is cheaper, I remember guys buying the chain for a 450 dirt bike, same size, stronger and cheaper…might try a search on that, its on here somewhere.

Here u go…crf450 oem timing chain, 02-08 will work on your 05 EX.


http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?491816-crf-450-timing-chain-400ex

[bkelley]

Got everything ordered for the build.

Main Rebuild components:

87mm 11:1 Wiseco
Hotcams Stage 2
ProX HD Timing Chain
Cometic top end gasket kit
Stock timing key
Left case gasket


Local machine shop is gonna do the bore for $65. Also gonna have him lap the valves.

Misc. items I'll be replacing:

ITP Quadcross XC rears
Primary Drive Gold XRing chain
Primary Drive front(14) and rear(39) steel sprockets
Oil, filters, plugs and brake pads


And I think that's everything haha. Can't wait to get it back together, it's gonna feel like a whole new bike.

You guys running the 416s how much did you have to adjust your jetting? I'm running the 450 carb so it'll be different just seeing what ballpark I should try first.

[bkelley]

Build has been haunted for a bit. Pretty sure some a**hole decided to steal my piston kit off the porch when it got delivered last week... The place I bought it from is doing an investigation just to cover all bases but they already told me they'll replace it if they don't end up finding out where it went. Frustrating, first time we've ever had a package come up missing. Installing a security camera this week.

[DragonGunner]

Build has been haunted for a bit. Pretty sure some a**hole decided to steal my piston kit off the porch when it got delivered last week... The place I bought it from is doing an investigation just to cover all bases but they already told me they'll replace it if they don't end up finding out where it went. Frustrating, first time we've ever had a package come up missing. Installing a security camera this week.

Man that sucks!!!! Your jetting should be pretty close as long as you haven't changed the amount of air going in…..like if you had a closed air box and now your removing it. Very hard starting and backfires would be a sign of too lean to watch for….and after a few hours check your plug.

[mtsnieg]

'….and after a few hours check your plug. '
^
^
No, don't do this. Do a proper plug chop before you go riding.

[DragonGunner]

'….and after a few hours check your plug. '
^
^
No, don't do this. Do a proper plug chop before you go riding.


Well you have to ride in order to do that…….? I have gone through the process they say for proper plug chops…..never really works, each time plug still looks like brand new and very white…..and its not lean. I just do some running time and keep checking, get a nice light tan is good……black way to rich. Right now I got 185 main jet that runs for hours and hours and always light tan. I can put a new plug in and plug chop all day and it will be pure white every check…..lost all faith in that procedure……I actually when rejetting like to get it close to the black showing its running rich then back off till I can get to the light tan. I know some talk and say they do the chop…..just never gave me any accuracy.


Nice Quads by the way!!!!

[mtsnieg]

Are you cutting off the threads and checking the ring at the base of the insulater? The exposed tip of the plug will look new on a plug chop. It's the ring at the base that is important.

[DragonGunner]

Are you cutting off the threads and checking the ring at the base of the insulater? The exposed tip of the plug will look new on a plug chop. It's the ring at the base that is important.

Good info…..no I have never done that….too cheap and lazy I guess.

[WoodTRD]

Man I haven't been on here in years, and just so happened to have the itch to dig my 400 out and get it going yesterday. Cleaned the carb and adjusted the throttle and seems good to go. The setup you're going with sounds really similar to mine and it RIPS for a 400. Don't really see how you could ask for a better powerband for trail riding. Used to smoke our stock 700 raptor till the very top back in the gap.

It'll be a fun ride for sure. I think all the info on my build is still in my signature, haven't changed it in years and only other thing I might would do would be add a steering stabilizer for our rough, rooted up trails.

Life gets in the way for everyone it seems like...

[WoodTRD]

Meant to add, I have a 175 main in mine and a 52 pilot with the 42 mm 450r carb. Plug seems perfect and runs awesome bottom to top at sea level. On my first quick test spin since I let it sit up yesterday I noticed a little more popping on decel than I remembered, so I'm guessing my pilot may still be a hair gummed up, not sure. Feels good to be back messing with it again though after a while.