Long travel front setup for XC-400ex

[PRobably]

Hi,guys.I'm looking into a cheap long travel suspension setup for my 400 ex.By the looks of if the best cheap long travel shocks are from a yfz 450R,I know that people have put the X version numerous times on a 400ex.My plan is to get some +2 alba A-arms and use the yfz450R shocks.I found some that are already revalved for XC and their lenght is 18 3/4 which I guess is what you'd wanna use on a long travel A-arm.Any better options out there?I'm looking for something around the 800 $ range,but I might spend a little more if it's really worth it.I know that for that kind of money I should probably look into a regular travel shock's and A-arms,but I love the feel of the long stroke.I Ride mainly woods and fast field sections and pretty much everything that I can find ...So I need a good general setup.
Thanks guys

[MtnEX]

Unfortunately your idea just won't work :(

Two reasons...

1) According to Alba, the required shock length to run the long travel on their arms is 19 3/4"

2) I do not have a clue what the correct compressed length is supposed to be on the shock either.

More comes into play here than meets the eye.

For the money you want to spend, you need to get in touch with Andy at M A U L T E C H A T V.

You may also google GT Suspension. I think they will build you a shock to the correct spec for $895

Anyways, that has been one of the options I have put together for myself.... GT/Alba.

I think the shocks honestly make real good sense no matter what arms you run... even standard travel. By the time you buy 450R shocks and pay to rework them for the 400EX and do the frame mods????? Well, makes some sense to me anyways.

[PRobably]

I knew I missed something...Didn't think about the compressed lenght.I emailed Alba about the required shock lenght,but I still haven't heard from them.I thought that most LT A arms required shocks close to 19 inches ~ 18,75-19 ,why did Alba go All the way up to 19,75? That's waaaay too long... I'll try and source out the compressed lenght of the 450R shocks.Are you absolutely sure that the Alba's require 19,75 inch shocks ? I really want to make that work...

[MtnEX]

Yes, that info came from Alba

I have also asked for the compressed length information now. I forgot to in my initial questioning.

In the end, that is what the compressed length will need to be. Typically, when the shock length is a lot longer the compressed length turns out to be some longer too. Both often change and I would think that is likely the case with Honda.

19.75" shocks is actually great. In reality, the longer the shock, the better the potential. This allows for more shock capacity and more of everything for the builder to work with for setting up the dampening action. The shock does not have to work as hard and has more to work with, and also typically will have more shock stroke to work with for the ratio to wheel travel.

Some other applications, like for example old YFZ's can attain 10.5" long wheel travel with a relatively short shock. But that is not optimal. The shock gets worked a lot harder and there is less for the tuner to work with on tuning the dampening. This is not to say that a shorter shock setup can't be made to work better than a 19.75" shock setup if the shock and builder/tuner are better. But in general, all else being the same, a longer shock is preferred.

I would imagine if I were to look around there are probably several TRX450R arm applications that use a 19.75" shock or longer.

[PRobably]

A longer shock sure is better,but it's far away from being cheaper... :D Keep us posted dude,thank you for the info.

[MtnEX]

Yeah, I should get compressed info on Monday I guess.

Hard part will be finding that info on any OEM shocks. Most people don't know that info about their OEM stuff to tell the truth. You will probably have to call a place that reworks them and hope they will share that with you.

If the compressed length is right, you can use a shorter shock. OEM does it all the time and leaves bikes short on down travel. But it does cause the shock to need to be more stiffly sprung or differently sprung. Can't allow the same amount of sag or the ride height will be low.

When it comes to suspension, there are few cheap and good ways to do things. And a whole inch of difference is usually too much difference to work with as most setups have around a 2:1 motion ratio. 1" of shaft travel = 2" of wheel travel.

I'd say most likely the best options here are GT Suspension, or 450R shocks converted to long travel, or Elka, or find some used 450R or 400EX long travel shocks as far as saving money goes...

[DragonGunner]

I just looked over at ebay and they had Elka Long Travel front shocks for +3" long travel a a arms that were 18 3/4" eye to eye set up for the 400EX. So I would think 18 3/4" is long travel set up for the 400EX….maybe 19 3/4" is the total length.

[MtnEX]

Nah, the arm manufacturers are the ones who decide shock specs, not the shock makers.

In the end, the arm manufacturer decides where the lower shock mount goes on the arm, which determines the extended and compressed length, motion ratios and leverage ratios. This is why if you go to a shock manufacturers catalog and go under any particular quad you will find numerous different shock application part numbers.

The only good part in this is that for the most part, everyone is shooting for the same 10.5" wheel travel for long travel. So two different arms for the same bike will typically have the same compressed length if they use the same shock extended length. Valving and spring rates will be similar also if the arms are the same length and application.

[DragonGunner]

Nah, the arm manufacturers are the ones who decide shock specs, not the shock makers.

In the end, the arm manufacturer decides where the lower shock mount goes on the arm, which determines the extended and compressed length, motion ratios and leverage ratios. This is why if you go to a shock manufacturers catalog and go under any particular quad you will find numerous different shock application part numbers.

The only good part in this is that for the most part, everyone is shooting for the same 10.5" wheel travel for long travel. So two different arms for the same bike will typically have the same compressed length if they use the same shock extended length. Valving and spring rates will be similar also if the arms are the same length and application.


Would this just be the case on just long travel? I've had shocks made and set up for different a arms (standard travel) and they asked if stock, +1, +2….but never asked what brand a arm.

[MtnEX]

Yes, just long travel... as all standard travel arms use either stock extended and compressed lengths or what the shock MFG decides is optimal for standard travel.

For example, I know Fox, and I know 450's... several of the 450's use a rather short extended and compressed length. Like 12" compressed and 16.25" long. Fox builds them all 12" compressed and 17" long. This gives nearly long travel on a quad with 2:1 motion ratio... 10" wheel travel from 5" shaft stroke.

Shock builders only really ask if stock or +1 or +2 on standard travel to (1) get an idea of application (2) to send you shocks set up for the correct leverage ratio.... as a +2 arm set will have considerably more leverage than a stock arm.

[DragonGunner]

Yes, just long travel... as all standard travel arms use either stock extended and compressed lengths or what the shock MFG decides is optimal for standard travel.

For example, I know Fox, and I know 450's... several of the 450's use a rather short extended and compressed length. Like 12" compressed and 16.25" long. Fox builds them all 12" compressed and 17" long. This gives nearly long travel on a quad with 2:1 motion ratio... 10" wheel travel from 5" shaft stroke.

Shock builders only really ask if stock or +1 or +2 on standard travel to (1) get an idea of application (2) to send you shocks set up for the correct leverage ratio.... as a +2 arm set will have considerably more leverage than a stock arm.

Thanks for the info!

[PRobably]

So as far as cheap long travel suspension goes.A revalved trx450 shock is the best way to go ?

[LxMxL97]

So as far as cheap long travel suspension goes.A revalved trx450 shock is the best way to go ?

Jet Suspension does some really good work as far as converting stock shocks to long travel and I was told they are making stock a arms into long travel I'm not sure on when or if it is happening for sure but I copy and pasted this from their website

"JET Long Travel a-arm conversion (+.5 or +1) with camber adjustable (includes JET HD Long Travel tie rods) $475 (available in Dec 2014)"