2002 Cannondale Cannibal compression

[topfli8979]

Im new here, hoping someone can help me out. I picked up a cannondale cannibal 440 last week it ran, but had a miss. I didnt mess with it for about a week, try to start it yesterday and would not start. Installed a compression gauge and its not registering as any compression at all, "0". Do these bikes have a compression release that might be stuck?

[witech]

Yes they do and they need a minimum of 50psi to start. Decomps do get stuck . They usually just get loose to the point they break. Do you know the history of the engine as in the required updates and who built it?

[topfli8979]

Thanks for the response, was getting worried no one rode these bikes anymore, lol. As for history on the bike prior owner "said" motor was sent to Tim Moose in pennsylvania to Metzak Machine Shop for the z400 bearings/valvetrain upgrade. I beleive it still stock pistons/crank. Can I remove the valve cover to access cams without removing the engine?

[witech]

It is possible to remove the valve cover in chassis but it is much more difficult than just pulling the engine which can be done in as little as 30 minutes with practice. Anyways if you do find anything you still have to pull the engine do the work. Do a leakdown test and see where the compression is going. There are still a bunch of Dales out there and still having group rides. Although I dont build as many engines as I did 5-10 years ago which is kinda nice not to have backlog .More time to play.
Anyway pull your oil filter and check for metal in the filter by wrapping in a couple shop towels for an hour and inspect for metal. If the cams wore out or a cam bearing failed you will see some shavings.

[topfli8979]

1718108872

I pulled motor , valve cover and right side cover. No metal flakes in engine that I can see. 2 small flakes in oil filter. Everything looks good to me. Where is auto decompression part located?

[blacknblue#2]

1718108872

I pulled motor , valve cover and right side cover. No metal flakes in engine that I can see. 2 small flakes in oil filter. Everything looks good to me. Where is auto decompression part located?

Not familiar with Cdale but it appears to be on the right can between the cam cap and the first lobe

[topfli8979]

Anyone know what could break on the decompression part? Spring is there and still connected.

[witech]

Study the mechanism. The flyweight is pulled towards the middle of the camshaft by the spring. If you pull the flyweight out like it was a running engine you will see the flyweight rotates a large pin towards the center of the camshaft so the flat edge machined on the pin does not tap the cam bucket. When it taps the cam bucket it will let a tiny amount of compression go near top dead center while slowly cranking the engine. Now there is a tiny pin protruding from the large machined one that the flyweights small islands hit. That tiny pin has been known to break on very rare occasion and allow the large pin to spin freely to just dump compression constantly and erratically causing a crappy running engine. Also when any part of the decomp does break soon afterwards those pieces end up siezing the scavange pump and trashing lots of parts. Which is why the decomp should be inspected for play during rebuilds and repaired . If you see that the decomp is doing its job and you dont see air leakage from your leakdown test out a valve seat then the rings or piston would be to blame which is highly unlikely unless its a wade wilcox or wiseco piston.

[topfli8979]

Well, I tried a leak down, although I think the tool is a joke. I have air coming out through the valves rather quickly, with head cover off. I have noticed the cam marks are not inline with what they should be. Will the motor being out of timing make it completley lose compression? Could the cam flywheels rotate on the cam shaft?

[witech]

I have seen the timing pins that locate the cam gear to camshaft break because they were not torqued down by the rebuilder. Then the cam will go out of time and destroy lots of stuff. Heat the cam gear bolts for a few seconds(to soften the locktite) while holding the cams in a soft jawed rag covered vice and remove the bolts with a 10mm allen socket.
What do you mean you think the cams are out of time from what they should be? Once the engine is run the center gear dots dont line up anymore but you can count the teeth with the tdc bolt locking the crank at tdc. The manual shows this clearly on page 49.
When doing a leakdown test make sure the cam lobes are facing each other at 45 degrees like in the book and the decomp is not pushing down on the exhaust bucket. Cannondale stock pistons rarely leak much and valves should not leak much at all. Thats also a good time to check your vslve lash. Which will operate happily from .005" to .009" intake and .010" to .017" exhaust.

[topfli8979]

I didnt know that after the motor has been ran the marks on cam wheels would not line up, reason I thought its out of time.

[blacknblue#2]

I didnt know that after the motor has been ran the marks on cam wheels would not line up, reason I thought its out of time.

How's that work? At some point in every revolution everything should return to "in time" just as it is at a stand still??

[witech]

Thats because the cam chain drives a jack shaft with 2 different gear ratios that match up to the correct ratio. . The center gear is not the same size as the cam gears so once it turns one revolution it looses the initial timing marks . Having alignment dots on the center gear allows for quicker install for the engine builder. Once its been run you have to count teeth which although simple takes a minute to do.

[topfli8979]

I finally got around to pulling the head, piston/sleeve are shot. Looks like something melted on the inside. Where can I buy parts? I contacted black widow but did not get a return call.

[witech]

Piston melted ? Pretty rare for a cannondale. Do you know if the fuel system has been upgraded by gutting/removing the quick connect fittings? Does it still have the tiny lawn mower fuel filter on it? It should have a large fram g2 . Keep calling Black widow ,its not his full time job but he does have the parts and will take care of you when he comes back from the road. .

[topfli8979]

Yea piston is pretty bad, has metal smeared all along the back. It does have g2 filter and tank connects gutted. I also have the original plastic 3- gear set for oil pump, are these prone to failure?

[witech]

Scavange pump gears ,metal or plastic rarely if ever fail of their own accord. Whenever there is a piece of debris from somewhere else in the engine (say a cam bearing cage rivet) it will get into the pump and jam it . The gears with strip the the teeth as a result of this so its kind of a safety feature. When the gears get damaged and the scavange pump quits working oil builds up in the crankcase and gets churned up and blown into the breather system. The result is foamy oil spraying out the air filter breather. Even though flow is severely limited this can generally be enough to keep the engine alive for quite some time. This is why I use a scavange pump sight glass in all my engines.

[topfli8979]

I got my new piston/sleeve from black widow. Installed everything in the motor, took motor to a local cannondale guy to help with timing. Thought everything was in time, but I guess it is not correct. I installed the motor, went to fire it up and it cranks 3-4 times then fires and runs great. BUT as soon as I shut it down it will not restart until motor has completely cooled, like 2 hours. Did another compression test, which I should have done after timing the motor., and im getting 30 psi. Which is supposidly to low to fire the motor, but it will run like a scalded dog on the first intial start. So i guess i get to drop the motor again.