How you mini ppl like Briarcliff?

[LT80]

Like it says..Your opinion?

[jake55]

I think "no comment" says enough.

[hensonfamfun]

Pitiful!! I'm not sure who is at fault....the owner or the ATVA. Either way they were not prepared and somebody should have stepped up to the plate and fixed things rather than let them continue. Could have been a pretty cool event but SOMEBODY blew it. My opinion.....Worst National I have ever been to.

[nitrofish]

Obviously the biggest concern for all was the amount of accidents. Having raced and the boy raced at BC for the past several years we understand that it is a fast technical track. We have been to all of BC's local races and have never seen this amount of crashes. The track itself is virtually the same as it has been for the past several years with the exception of widening for the LL area qualifier and this National. My biggest concern for the upcoming weekend (track wise) was the center tunnel jump for the mini's. My son had a few close calls on that jump as well in previous races and or practices. He would clear it just fine, then clip his rear wheels other times. After slowing down his rebound on the rear it was a non-factor yet I chose not to allow him to do it anymore because I felt the risk was not worth the reward. I spoke with many of the miniquad crowd prior to practice warning them of a clean jump. I personally stationed myself at that location for most of the weekend to aid possible get offs for the little ones. From my vantage this is where most of the accidents occured. Most of the accidents seem to be due to riders getting together in the air or simply endo-ing. A kicker did develop down track after the landing that flipped a rider but was quickly addressed and fixed. Jeremy spent much of Sunday at this location as well trying to figure out a future solution. It has never been such an issue before and the jump has not changed, it is perplexing. What does a track owner do in this situation? Does he make it far less challenging so each can do it? Should the racers and racer's parents err on the side of caution? I do not have the answers but for what ever the reason the evidence shows that it was a problem area. I'm not going to speak on behalf of Jeremy but I know he was upset about the amount of injuries and will spend hours digesting the information and search for a solution. I really enjoyed the entire event, great racing, great friends and overall a well run event. Room for improvement, yes. Lessons learned, yes. Parking got a bit disorganized as it went but overall not too bad. The dust was hard to control on both race days with the giant orange ball in the sky. It is hard to water when the track gets packed in without making it slick. Full prep is the only cure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, criticism and so forth and it is good to get it out there. One thing that Jeremy does is take it to heart, listen and try to make it better. He will also give an honest opinion back. I hope all heal up well and pray for everyone's safety the rest of the season. The boy is officially 2 wheels only with the selling of his quad but a new racer is born with their new purchase! We have enjoyed the past several years with our quad friends and will continue to support ATV racing to the fullest. We hope to see you all next year and see the improvements that will be made. God bless. Matt, Jess and Jack Winland.

[Logan #34's Dad]

What made it so bad?
WE always biatch that ALL the tracks never do maintenance to the track... this place did more maintenance than all of them combined... so, it made the day longer...big deal.
As for the center jump that claimed many riders... I'll agree it needed something.... but what? Personally I'd make it a tabletop... The crashes I saw had a lot to do with suspension set up...if your rebound was not slowed down it'd spring/bounce the rear up.
What WE all don't understand is, how difficult it is to make a track for a 50cc beginner and a professional the same day. As soon as the track is too hard the lil rider parents biatch, and when its too easy the big bike ppl biatch...

[hensonfamfun]

What made it so bad?
WE always biatch that ALL the tracks never do maintenance to the track... this place did more maintenance than all of them combined... so, it made the day longer...big deal.
As for the center jump that claimed many riders... I'll agree it needed something.... but what? Personally I'd make it a tabletop... The crashes I saw had a lot to do with suspension set up...if your rebound was not slowed down it'd spring/bounce the rear up.
What WE all don't understand is, how difficult it is to make a track for a 50cc beginner and a professional the same day. As soon as the track is too hard the lil rider parents biatch, and when its too easy the big bike ppl biatch...

Poorly run. No excuse for waiting to race for almost 30 plus minutes while they "Prep" the track and let the flaggers go eat lunch and a hour the day before. Flaggers.....did not know what planet they were on and not enough of them. I saw one guy run a dozer and stop, then get out and get on water truck and start watering while we all waited. Again....unprepared...no staff. Longer day would have prevented had they been prepared. Had this been New York Rocky it may have been a bigger deal for ya.:blah: Staff it correctly and a lot of these issues go away. If you have an issue where folks are continually getting hurt then fix it. Its really that simple. They knew in practice Friday it was a problem and still let it continue. Shame on them. I don't think there are to many people out there that could say it was very well run and not very well run equals a sub par event. Like I said it had potential, but HAD and did are two different things. Nitrofish..........I saw what you did as well as others.......Shielding that kid and RISKING your life to protect that kid was just about the ballsiest thing I have ever seen.

[jake55]

I will gladly discuss my concerns with the owner, I wont do it in public forum, but I will take the time to talk with him one on one if he so desires.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I'll agree with you that the event was understaffed as far as heavy equipment operators. As far as flaggers...I've seen many many promotors bring in what looked like the local prison chain gang - that had NO clue.
I suggested to Jeremy to do sections of the track as we go so there'd not be that long break. With this being the 1st one, lessons learned...
Most crashes were rider error IMO... including MY SON. Keep in mind - Logan is sitting next to me in a sling and we're waiting to go see the ortho Dr.
After the 2nd practice of the day, Jeremy addressed the step up part of the jump - I don't know if it got better or not.
Normally they'd run dirt bikes and quads here for a race day which creates a completely different track. Quads only pack the dirt differently and made for different conditions. Truly the only bad part of the track was this tunnel step up jump BUT every track has to have a difference maker...IF not we'd all biatch that it was too easy...
Its impossible to make everyone happy.
I'm sure all these issues will be "fixed".

[jake55]

rocky, the jump in question was not a "difference maker" I know 3 classes that were won by a kid that never once attempted to clear it.

only difference it made was weather or not you got hurt.

and suspension set up?????? come on rock, you know better.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I watched Logan's quad pop up over that jump. I slowed the rebound down and it stopped...
I know a lot wrecked there but 90% of the racers had no issues. The Musick/Rastrilli crash was not a track issue, the mini crash that took Wyatt Tom to the ER was not a track issue either(not naming names - the beginning of that crash was caused by one rider "touching" the rear of Wyatt's quad in the air with his front tire - racing deal). And when a rider makes a jump easily multiple times but then crashes once.. it that the "tracks" fault?
Eventually we'll have all tabletops and whoops... which is good by me FOR me. LOL.

[wickestangwv]

I personally liked the facility. They were understaffed and took awhile to prep the track but hey we all *****ed that muddy creek never once prepped the track so I was ok with the wait. I personally think it should be built in on he time line IE Track prep between moto 10-11 this way I didn't have to sit my kid out in the hot sun and wait. I like the fact they had other things for the kids, parents, and other races to do in the evening, not that I could see any of it working on that stupid ATV lol

[hensonfamfun]

Well........all I can say is count the Ambulances and Helicopters. I don't think there has been a National in a while where there was this many ambulances in and out of a race with such severe injuries. Whats that tell you? To me there was a trend with ambulances in and out of the facility. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe it was just a couple. Just seemed like a lot. I would go back. I'm not bashing, I'm simply voicing concerns. Now, whether they listen or not is a different matter. I'm done and really hoping all those kids are ok and heal quickly!!!

[Logan #34's Dad]

I've always complained about track prep from most of the tracks we go to. I'm all for a rough track but when the ruffness causes a dangerous condition it should be prepped in that area. As this jump could have been fixed BUT what's the correct way to fix it? Everyone will have an opinion about that and not like it or like it.
I like the idea of making the track prep part of the schedule... since the race order changes each day and every other event....it'd be fair. BUT then we'd all biatch about when it was done...again, can't make everyone happy.

[LT80]

Ok, my turn.
I liked the facility, I thought it was run very well. I had no problem with track prep, I've seen it way worse.
My only concern is the track.
All these national racers crashing. Must be suspension (sorry Rocky)...Not...
Unless you are a very good B racer and above, the jumps kicked the rear wheels. When jumps are pointed, this happens.
What to do? IMO, the owner could listen to the ppl with 20+ years national atv racing expierience instead of ignoring advice.
As advise was offered, he was explaining how perfect his track was.
Knock those pointed bi@tchs down is how I looked at it.
A national event has to be safe from the 4 yr olds to the 56 yr olds. :)
If you want national atv money you have to sacrifice your bike track some.

[jake55]

how many "panic rev's" did we hear during pro and pro-am????? more than I could count.

[#404's Dad]

Well my son had no complaints on the track, we dialed in the suspension (tightened up the front and loosened up the rear) and away he went and I am pretty sure he jumped every jump every lap as far as him and his 90cc quad could do it and fortunately we got out of there with no issues and I was surprised with the odd vibe I had all weekend (prolly from the electric wires i was parked under).

I however have a couple complaints, having to water the road ourselves to try and control dust because it was not on the tracks agenda (their words not mine), Effing horrible dust all weekend !! No where near enough flaggers, My wife actually flagged all day Friday to help out AND I'll add that she never once sat down, fell a sleep or did not pay attention to her surroundings, wish I could say that about the rest, lazy *******s!!

Overall, I liked the facility a lot just needs some tweaks like Watering the roads and a better way for racer Dads and Mechanics to get to the center of that track, Maybe a tunnel behind gates, this would also slow the pace of the holeshot entering the whoops/rollers, I dunno.

Ohhh, we all absolutely lover the Trophies, wish more tracks would go the extra mile like Briarcliff did on that.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Overall, I liked the facility a lot just needs some tweaks like Watering the roads and a better way for racer Dads and Mechanics to get to the center of that track, Maybe a tunnel behind gates, this would also slow the pace of the holeshot entering the whoops/rollers, I dunno.

Ohhh, we all absolutely lover the Trophies, wish more tracks would go the extra mile like Briarcliff did on that.

The track just recently took the tunnel you mention out..... it did slow the holeshot down but was a real weird jump, personally i think it would of been real dangerous as it was. It could of been made into a tabletop but when you downside it you'd be turning an instant left onto the track. I have a video of Logan racing there last year on YouTube if you wanna see it... AND how much the track has changed since then... this owner can and will make changes when needed.
The trophies were cool!
I liked that he had entertainment after the races...
So, if the only issues were one bad jump and watering the pits and track....not so bad for a 1st try.

[jake55]

from pro down to 50 limited there were 71 DNS on Sunday. granted a few were mechanical and a few were guys that run multiple classes. think about that, 71 DNS for sunday moto's!!!

[ozborn1]

My son rides here every day. He rides a 250 mod now. His name is Tyler Osborn. he has rode the track since he was on a TRX90. He Ran a 141 laptime on the 250. As my son will continue to get faster because the track is challenging you will all get slower. Briarcliff has turned my son into one of the fastest riders in the nation at his level. I thank Briarcliff for this cause if it wasnt for them he would be nobody. I agree 100% that if you crashed on the track and you are blaming the track you are 100% in denile. learn to setup your shocks right and or tell your rider wether or not they are capeable of doing something. Every one i seen was because there rear shock was way to fast. I am not by no means speaking for briarcliff. All you guys (and it sounds like all mini parents complaining) grow up or swicth to TT. I hear it is more rider friendly

[hensonfamfun]

my son rides here every day. He rides a 250 mod now. His name is tyler osborn. He has rode the track since he was on a trx90. He ran a 141 laptime on the 250. As my son will continue to get faster because the track is challenging you will all get slower. Briarcliff has turned my son into one of the fastest riders in the nation at his level. I thank briarcliff for this cause if it wasnt from them he would be nobody. I agree 100% that if you crashed on the track and you are blaming the track you are 100% in denile. Learn to setup your shocks right and or tell your rider wether or not they are capeable of doing something. I am not by no means speaking for briarcliff. All you guys and it sounds like all mini parents complaining grow up or swicth to tt. I hear it is more rider friendly


lmao!!!!!

[jake55]

ride the track every day.....7th. overall, impressive.

[ozborn1]

stock motor. sorry i dont have the money to build a 10,000 dollar rage motor. i think running less then 2 seconds off cole sepsi is impressive. i also think going from 12th to 5th the second moto and runing a 141 laptime through traffic is impressive. i also think runing "A" times on a stock crf250 is impressive. i also think you should put your foot in your mouth some more before you trash talk some one elses son. dont talk about my rider he has done nothing. you want to be a man talk about me. all im saying is we have had no issues with crashing. Must have a better pit crew then you :). by the way my rider can ride thiss class for 1 more year too!

[hensonfamfun]

stock motor. sorry i dont have the money to build a 10,000 dollar rage motor. i think running less then 2 seconds off cole sepsi is impressive. i also think going from 12th to 5th the second moto and runing a 141 laptime through traffic is impressive. i also think you should put your foot in your mouth some more before you trash talk some one elses son. dont talk about my rider he has done nothing. you want to be a man talk about me. all im saying is we have had no issues with crashing. Must have a better pit crew then you :). by the way my rider can ride thiss class for 1 more year too!

With all do respect I think you are the one that made some statements that are argumentative and somewhat insulting to some folks. What you are missing are the simple facts. There were more injuries and at this track than what we will see in an entire year. I think at the end of the year that would be close to a FACT. We have made some comments about what we thought about the track and what improvements may be made. you decided to throw a zinger at mini parents and essentially tell us to try something else. Like you said....you ride that track everyday so obviously you know where every piece of dirt is there and are biased. Some of us have been to all the races, some of us have seen what works and what doesn't. Don't get bent if we talk about the track and improvements and decide to chime in with "Shock set up". we all want what's best for our kids and our sport so if someone asks about there thoughts we express our opinion. We never brought your kid up or those facts you shared. You did

[ozborn1]

With all do respect I think you are the one that made some statements that are argumentative and somewhat insulting to some folks. What you are missing are the simple facts. There were more injuries and at this track than what we will see in an entire year. I think at the end of the year that would be close to a FACT. We have made some comments about what we thought about the track and what improvements may be made. you decided to throw a zinger at mini parents and essentially tell us to try something else. Like you said....you ride that track everyday so obviously you know where every piece of dirt is there and are biased. Some of us have been to all the races, some of us have seen what works and what doesn't. Don't get bent if we talk about the track and improvements and decide to chime in with "Shock set up". we all want what's best for our kids and our sport so if someone asks about there thoughts we express our opinion. We never brought your kid up or those facts you shared. You did

i think Briarcliff will make changes to please the majority. but like rock said you can not please every one. i may have said stuff i shouldnt have but it really makes me mad when i see this thread and i know the man that has gave his heart and soul into this. all of you need to understand that the owner of Briarcliff is a one man show with 2 full time jobs and a family. he gives eveything he has for this sport and all you guys are bashing him. i stateted facts about a rider that rides here every day. i have his shocks dialed. i suggest you do the same next time. plus there are lots of injuries because the track is new to everyone. i will bet wild cat had lots of crashing last year too?

[jake55]

well sir, first off, the thread is about opinions. we all know the old saying, everyone has one. if you read back thru you will see that I chose not to publicly speak my concerns. All my post were in reply to others comments with some facts thrown in. you will also see where I stated I would gladly talk privately with the owner, I know he is on here at times, as of a few minutes ago I have had no pm's from him. as far as bashing your son, I don't think so, again just responding to what you posted. my son was injured this past weekend, no where I have I posted blame on the track, I have defended my suspension set up, if that makes me an a hole, so be it. I sir, as you, will defend my kid at all cost.

[ozborn1]

very sorry to hear about the injury as i am with all injuries. hope he gets better soon. every one has there own opinion as do i. Briarcliff rocks and will continue to be a success because the owner cares more for the sport than any one i know.


well sir, first off, the thread is about opinions. we all know the old saying, everyone has one. if you read back thru you will see that I chose not to publicly speak my concerns. All my post were in reply to others comments with some facts thrown in. you will also see where I stated I would gladly talk privately with the owner, I know he is on here at times, as of a few minutes ago I have had no pm's from him. as far as bashing your son, I don't think so, again just responding to what you posted. my son was injured this past weekend, no where I have I posted blame on the track, I have defended my suspension set up, if that makes me an a hole, so be it. I sir, as you, will defend my kid at all cost.

[nitrofish]

Ok guys and gals. Opinions have been all over the place, not just here but everywhere. I've heard it was the best and I've heard it was the worst. That really doesn't matter, it's opinion. I don't think it is fair to blame the track or track owner for the injuries in this case. A problem area for sure for whatever reason, not a flawed jump with a bad kicker or uneven take off. Mr. Osborn1 and I also talked about the jump over the weekend and agreed to disagree as with many others I spoke with. Everyone has known my opinion about the center jump, I have never liked it nor will. Most local racers/riders will come unglued when it is tweaked, it has been a favorite for most for many years. Again, I just don't think Bruarcliff should be taking the heat as hard as they have for the amount of injuries, most were simply racing incidents. Bottom line is I think you all need a Jeremy for the circus, I'm telling you he will make it one of the best on the circuit. He has the most dedication and dedicated helpers to make it that way. Lets not start a war of words, riders and so forth. Mr. Osborn1 is passionate about the place and is highly frustrated by the blame. The same goes for the parents and racers are highly frustrated over their season ending injuries, points and damaged equipment. Give the Cliff a chance to come back. Lets work on the betterment of the Nationals as a whole. Y'all starting to sound like the two wheeled guys, oh wait I guess that's me. I have been bothered by it all and can't get it off my mind, I just hope that come next year I will be working with the entire BC staff making it the best event on the schedule. I have nothing in this aside from the fact that I love motocross, I love the ATV families and BC is where my son got his start as well. I hope I don't turn into a "deuce bag" (that's my slang for the whiney two wheelers) over the next year riding the two wheeled events. Ok, I've rambled enough. Good luck to all and be safe! Matt.

[ozborn1]

Ok guys and gals. Opinions have been all over the place, not just here but everywhere. I've heard it was the best and I've heard it was the worst. That really doesn't matter, it's opinion. I don't think it is fair to blame the track or track owner for the injuries in this case. A problem area for sure for whatever reason, not a flawed jump with a bad kicker or uneven take off. Mr. Osborn1 and I also talked about the jump over the weekend and agreed to disagree as with many others I spoke with. Everyone has known my opinion about the center jump, I have never liked it nor will. Most local racers/riders will come unglued when it is tweaked, it has been a favorite for most for many years. Again, I just don't think Bruarcliff should be taking the heat as hard as they have for the amount of injuries, most were simply racing incidents. Bottom line is I think you all need a Jeremy for the circus, I'm telling you he will make it one of the best on the circuit. He has the most dedication and dedicated helpers to make it that way. Lets not start a war of words, riders and so forth. Mr. Osborn1 is passionate about the place and is highly frustrated by the blame. The same goes for the parents and racers are highly frustrated over their season ending injuries, points and damaged equipment. Give the Cliff a chance to come back. Lets work on the betterment of the Nationals as a whole. Y'all starting to sound like the two wheeled guys, oh wait I guess that's me. I have been bothered by it all and can't get it off my mind, I just hope that come next year I will be working with the entire BC staff making it the best event on the schedule. I have nothing in this aside from the fact that I love motocross, I love the ATV families and BC is where my son got his start as well. I hope I don't turn into a "deuce bag" (that's my slang for the whiney two wheelers) over the next year riding the two wheeled events. Ok, I've rambled enough. Good luck to all and be safe! Matt.

Well said

[hensonfamfun]

Ok guys and gals. Opinions have been all over the place, not just here but everywhere. I've heard it was the best and I've heard it was the worst. That really doesn't matter, it's opinion. I don't think it is fair to blame the track or track owner for the injuries in this case. A problem area for sure for whatever reason, not a flawed jump with a bad kicker or uneven take off. Mr. Osborn1 and I also talked about the jump over the weekend and agreed to disagree as with many others I spoke with. Everyone has known my opinion about the center jump, I have never liked it nor will. Most local racers/riders will come unglued when it is tweaked, it has been a favorite for most for many years. Again, I just don't think Bruarcliff should be taking the heat as hard as they have for the amount of injuries, most were simply racing incidents. Bottom line is I think you all need a Jeremy for the circus, I'm telling you he will make it one of the best on the circuit. He has the most dedication and dedicated helpers to make it that way. Lets not start a war of words, riders and so forth. Mr. Osborn1 is passionate about the place and is highly frustrated by the blame. The same goes for the parents and racers are highly frustrated over their season ending injuries, points and damaged equipment. Give the Cliff a chance to come back. Lets work on the betterment of the Nationals as a whole. Y'all starting to sound like the two wheeled guys, oh wait I guess that's me. I have been bothered by it all and can't get it off my mind, I just hope that come next year I will be working with the entire BC staff making it the best event on the schedule. I have nothing in this aside from the fact that I love motocross, I love the ATV families and BC is where my son got his start as well. I hope I don't turn into a "deuce bag" (that's my slang for the whiney two wheelers) over the next year riding the two wheeled events. Ok, I've rambled enough. Good luck to all and be safe! Matt.

We WILL be back next year if they have it there. 931.797.4715 if he thinks I bashed him he can call. Just bothered by all the red lights and injuries. Work 2 jobs, drive to races in middle of the night, work out of others trailers, stay at the nastiest motels, steal coffee from friends just so we can race. All he has to do is tweak a couple of things and place is golden.

[ozborn1]

We WILL be back next year if they have it there. 931.797.4715 if he thinks I bashed him he can call. Just bothered by all the red lights and injuries. Work 2 jobs, drive to races in middle of the night, work out of others trailers, stay at the nastiest motels, steal coffee from friends just so we can race. All he has to do is tweak a couple of things and place is golden.


You may think he is not listening. But I can assure you he is.

[#404's Dad]

All he has to do is tweak a couple of things and place is golden.

I completely agree

[rookiewrench]

My son was one that liked the track. With that being said he has been riding the track since he was on a cobra 70 and is now an A rider. The track has made changes over the last 4-5 years and the track is still a great place to ride. I think the reason it is a great place to ride is because of the passion of the track owner. We have been to national races that don't allow quad to ride except on ATV national weekends. Why do we continue to go there and not want to give this owner a second opportunity? He is a quad guy.
Was there things that could be improved upon? of course!! Why don't we make suggestions for improvement instead of just complaining with not thought of improvement.
People making excuses about suspension being the cause for injury is something that I don't agree with. The riders should be watching the races to see how the track is changing so they know what to expect. You can not set up suspension so every jump and turn on the track. IMO. My son crashed over the kicker that everyone is complaining about because he did not watch the track between practice sessions for changes. I did not blame the track as much as I did him for not being observant of the track conditions. Mini parent should also explain this to their children. That kicker could have been avoided if they went to the far left or right. IMO
I hope all injured riders heal quickly and hope to see them on the gate for the next race.

[josborn]

Many valid points in this thread. I have been on the horn with many of the industry leaders since Sunday. I do know what we need to do in order to have a track that is more on the level of the rider skill set at the ATV National level. I already have another layout designed, and it will be implemented very very soon. As a matter of fact it will be used at the Battle for Ohio on August 24th.

I do feel like we were understaffed, it will be addressed.

I do feel like communication was an issue, it will be addressed.

I don't feel like the jump faces were off, I rode both motos in 30+ which was at the end of the day. I rode left and right in those motos. I didn't get a kick, not once. I do however feel like some of the riders were not ready for that aggressive of a track, or that much air time. As mentioned I do think that I can tweak most of it so that the percentage that struggled will have more fun next time, if it happens.

I do appreciate everyone's feedback, and I do care about the racers. If knew there was a viable solution for this past weekend, I would have done it, there were many suggestions made, including one from John Natalie on that jump. I did raise it up 1' and push it 5' closer on Saturday night, and it helped slightly. The kinds of overhaul changes that are needed could actually make things worse, if you reface something to the degree needed, and you get into something soft, then you are hurting worse than before, because you could create a soft spot for a kicker in the face, been there done that. Just trying to be informative.

Oh and we will have a better prep strategy next time with the right tools for the job. Like I said if their is a next time. If any wishes to discuss this with me off the board, I can be reached at josborn@briarcliffmx.com , Thank You.