Got an itch to switch

[kawabunga]

Hey all, been a while since I've been around here but figured it was the best place to ask about this.
I've got an '04 set up for MX right now. +2 Lonestar long travel a-arms with Fox Floats (1st gen), stock rear shock revalved with dual rate springs by Derisi, +4 adjustable Lonestar axle, stock swingarm/link.
I'm toying with converting my quad over to a GNCC style set up since 90% of my riding is now in the woods instead of the MX track. What would it take to do this swap? Can I simply swap out the a-arms and tie rods with narrower ones? Or will I need to get different front shocks as well? I'd like to keep the long travel set up if it makes sense to do so.
As for the rear I can just move the spacers on the axle to narrow it.
Any suggestions on a-arms to go with for general woods riding? I don't need top of the line, I'm just a weekend warrior.
I would also entertain a trade for a-arms if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
kawabunga

[HondaRacing83]

I would run houser lt fronts. Ive always loved houser stuff

[Baileygunns]

If you have 3-2 offset front rims you can swap them for 4-1 and just narrow up your rear axle to match... You'll get better handling with the 4-1 rims and narrow your front by 2 inches. Ask santos about settng up your suspension for woods and see if his link will work with 20" rear tires... Probably the cheapest and easiest way to convert.

[kawabunga]

If you have 3-2 offset front rims you can swap them for 4-1 and just narrow up your rear axle to match... You'll get better handling with the 4-1 rims and narrow your front by 2 inches. Ask santos about settng up your suspension for woods and see if his link will work with 20" rear tires... Probably the cheapest and easiest way to convert.

I didn't think of that... I'm not 100% sure what my offset is right now. It's been a long time since I put serious seat time on the machine so I'm out of touch with a lot of it...sadly.
Wouldn't XC a-arms give me a little better ground clearance? I think my Lonestars dip pretty low.

Pretty sure I goofed on who did my shock, I'm fairly certain it was C&D Racing. Was many years ago.

[Baileygunns]

You only have as much clearance as your rear axle, rotor, sprocket and swing arm...

I'd put money on you having 3-2 offset rims now if you have +2 arms and are at 50" wide... Most MX riders that have a 4-1 offset have +3 arms (that's what I have) to keep you at 50" wide.

*I re-read your first post and realized you have a stock link in the rear. Although not optimum for MX or XC it will work with 20" tires for XC. Figure the quad come with 20" stock.

If you get a second set of rims and tires you could have the best of both worlds. Have a set of 3-2 with MX tires and a set of 4-1 with XC tires for the front and do 8" rear rim with 18" MX and 9" rim with 20" XC tires. You'll have to play with ride height and suspension depending on what you are riding that day. Its not going to be the perfect XC machine but if you're just rec riding you'll be fine. You'll probably turn your compression all the way to soft for woods riding but that's something you'll have to figure out when you get out there.

[kawabunga]

You only have as much clearance as your rear axle, rotor, sprocket and swing arm...

I'd put money on you having 3-2 offset rims now if you have +2 arms and are at 50" wide... Most MX riders that have a 4-1 offset have +3 arms (that's what I have) to keep you at 50" wide.

*I re-read your first post and realized you have a stock link in the rear. Although not optimum for MX or XC it will work with 20" tires for XC. Figure the quad come with 20" stock.

If you get a second set of rims and tires you could have the best of both worlds. Have a set of 3-2 with MX tires and a set of 4-1 with XC tires for the front and do 8" rear rim with 18" MX and 9" rim with 20" XC tires. You'll have to play with ride height and suspension depending on what you are riding that day. Its not going to be the perfect XC machine but if you're just rec riding you'll be fine. You'll probably turn your compression all the way to soft for woods riding but that's something you'll have to figure out when you get out there.

Well, I think I need to reevaluate my situation then.

I have two sets of rims/tires already.
My tire set-ups currently...
Mx - Front, stock 450R rim w/20" tire; Rear, Douglas red label beadlock rim w/18" tire
Woods - Front, ITP rim w/21" tire; Rear, Stock DS450 rim w/20" tire
I have no idea what the offsets on the rims are anymore.

Like I said, I'm more of casual rider, so my setups were never really optimum for either the woods or mx but I was able to do them both. I just never hit the mx track anymore. I love a desert/GNCC set-up rig. Badass IMO. Just looking for an easy way to convert.

This is what I have...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/kawabunga/Screenshot2014-03-06at32238PM_zpsda92b88d.png
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/kawabunga/Screenshot2014-03-06at32249PM_zps742362d2.png

This is what I want...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/kawabunga/Screenshot2014-03-06at32256PM_zps129b268d.png

[Baileygunns]

Nice looking bike!

The stock rims are close to a 3-2 offset but the rims in the second pic look closer to 4-1 (hard to tell from the pic)
I dont want to offend you if you already know but some people dont... The numbers 3-2/4-1 refer to back spacing. On a 3-2 rim you will have 3" of dish on the inside and 2" of dish on the outside. 4-1 is 4" on the inside and 1" on the outside. You can measure it by putting a straight edge on the outer lip of the rim (not touching the tire) and measure to the inside center of the rim where it touches the hub...

Grab to cans (paint/soda/beer/whatever)... Put them on the ground on either side of your front tires and compress the front shocks. Move the quad out of the way and measure the distance between the cans.

The narrowest a GNCC trail can be is 50" so if you're at 50" between those cans its a tight fit on a GNCC course. I want to say 47-48 is what most run but some one would have to verify that.

If its been that long since the shock have been built and you havent had them serviced, they're probably due. Send them into your shock builder of choice and tell them what they are set up for and what you want to do with them and see what they suggest for any valving/spring change and ride height.

I think you can get your quad to where you want it with out changing to much... If I was going to build an XC machine (which I may do with my 2nd 450) I would do +2 arms and 4-1 rims for the front end. Better handling and that much less bump steer.

[2001400exrida]

You only have as much clearance as your rear axle, rotor, sprocket and swing arm...

I'd put money on you having 3-2 offset rims now if you have +2 arms and are at 50" wide... Most MX riders that have a 4-1 offset have +3 arms (that's what I have) to keep you at 50" wide.





depends on where the suspension sits and how low the ride height is. my tt quad with +2' and 4:1's sits a hair over 49" with ST shocks and +2 arms.

[Baileygunns]

depends on where the suspension sits and how low the ride height is. my tt quad with +2' and 4:1's sits a hair over 49" with ST shocks and +2 arms.
So what you're saying is if you had 3-2 offset rims and shocks/ride height set up for MX you'd be about 50" wide?

[LxMxL97]

I raced xc with +2 a arms and I was fine I ran 3:2 wheels and It deffinatly slowed me down when I got 4:1 wheels I was fine I loved that width but the bike you pictured and said that you wanted it is set up for desert and those tracks are fairly wide and the tires are tall 23 fronts and 22 rears I would say to do what you want just get Some 4:1 wheels and get your shocks valved for the woods a you should be just fine

[kawabunga]

Nice looking bike!

The stock rims are close to a 3-2 offset but the rims in the second pic look closer to 4-1 (hard to tell from the pic)
I dont want to offend you if you already know but some people dont... The numbers 3-2/4-1 refer to back spacing. On a 3-2 rim you will have 3" of dish on the inside and 2" of dish on the outside. 4-1 is 4" on the inside and 1" on the outside. You can measure it by putting a straight edge on the outer lip of the rim (not touching the tire) and measure to the inside center of the rim where it touches the hub...

Grab to cans (paint/soda/beer/whatever)... Put them on the ground on either side of your front tires and compress the front shocks. Move the quad out of the way and measure the distance between the cans.

The narrowest a GNCC trail can be is 50" so if you're at 50" between those cans its a tight fit on a GNCC course. I want to say 47-48 is what most run but some one would have to verify that.

If its been that long since the shock have been built and you havent had them serviced, they're probably due. Send them into your shock builder of choice and tell them what they are set up for and what you want to do with them and see what they suggest for any valving/spring change and ride height.

I think you can get your quad to where you want it with out changing to much... If I was going to build an XC machine (which I may do with my 2nd 450) I would do +2 arms and 4-1 rims for the front end. Better handling and that much less bump steer.

Thanks!
None taken. I understand what offset is, I just don't remember what mine are anymore. I don't spend as much time in the dirt as I used to, or would like.

You mention less bump steer with a +2/4-1 setup, why is that? Wouldn't a +1/3-2 be similar? Why would the first handle better?




I raced xc with +2 a arms and I was fine I ran 3:2 wheels and It deffinatly slowed me down when I got 4:1 wheels I was fine I loved that width but the bike you pictured and said that you wanted it is set up for desert and those tracks are fairly wide and the tires are tall 23 fronts and 22 rears I would say to do what you want just get Some 4:1 wheels and get your shocks valved for the woods a you should be just fine

I know it's desert setup, but it's something I want to try. It's sounding like the correct offset rims with some balloon tires, tall seat, and maybe some bark busters and I should be where I want. Looking for some comfort... man I sound old haha

[Baileygunns]

Less bump steer because you're moving the center of the rim closer to the ball joints. In a perfect world the center of the rim would be directly over the balljoints.

Less bump steer = better handling