416 help!

[Honda400rider14]

Hey guys I know y'all heard it before but anyhow, I just rebuilt my 400 to a 416 wiseco 11:1 and stage 2 cam, I'm needing some help with the jetting. I believe it's pinging a little bit with the 155 main jet that's in it. I still have the air lid on , but I should probably get rid of it when I rejet.
Thanks!

[CJM]

170-175 main, 40-42 pilot. With lid off.

[Honda400rider14]

Do you think running 100-110 octane would be bad for this motor build?

[Stickman400]

You could run it if you want, but it isn't going to do anything. You're motor isn't setup for that high of octane, 12.5:1 or higher needs 100+.

[LxMxL97]

I had a 168 in mine I was told a 175 and that was was too rich and so was a 170 but when I trail rode the 168 was still kinda rich but it I rode like I would during a race it was fine and I ran 93 octane for gas

[2001400exrida]

You could run it if you want, but it isn't going to do anything. You're motor isn't setup for that high of octane, 12.5:1 or higher needs 100+.

on the good old 400ex often times you need to run higher octane after 11:1 . I know some get away with it, but as hot as these machines run I won't run less than 100 octane in my 11:1

[400man]

I have a 416 JE 10.8:1 with stage 2 hotcam, fcr carb, full exhaust. alota times I just run 93 octane. some times I run 87 when I need gas for a ride and aint got any premium on hand. and when I do a race every once in awhile I will get some 110 race gas from town.

[2001400exrida]

stock compression on a 400ex is like 9.1:1 ratio. THe manual says minimum of 92 octane. Now i'm sure you would be fine with 89 or 91 in a stock 400ex and plenty fo guys probably run 87 with no problems, but keep in mind that when you're running 11:1 or higher, 93 is really pushing it on an air cooled 400ex. some guys get away with it, but as i mentioned i won't mess with detonation so i prefer to be on the safe side.

I most certainly would never recommend running 87 octane with anything close to 11:1

I should note that the liquid cooled 450's can get away with lower octane vs compression ratio, the 400ex does not act the same way. For example you can run pump fuel on a 12.5:1 liquid cooled 450, but in my opinion 12.5:1 in a 400ex requires 100 minimum.

[Zakradu398]

On my 11:1 I had I ran 93 octane and a 170 main. This was a 406.

[DragonGunner]

I ran the crap out of a 426 11:1 Wiseco with 100 AV gas....ran great, smelled great and after 2 years when I tore it down the piston and everything was clean, little brown on top of piston. After that I ran 50/50 93/100 AV......now I run Sunoco 93 and it does pretty good on that with 11:1

I run a 185 main, 42 pilot with open airbox and K&N with outerwear. But even with the 185 its a little lean for 20 degree weather so I through the lid on with about 6 one inch
holes in it....runs better, then take it off when its around 40 and above.

[2001400exrida]

I ran the crap out of a 426 11:1 Wiseco with 100 AV gas....ran great, smelled great and after 2 years when I tore it down the piston and everything was clean, little brown on top of piston. After that I ran 50/50 93/100 AV......now I run Sunoco 93 and it does pretty good on that with 11:1

I run a 185 main, 42 pilot with open airbox and K&N with outerwear. But even with the 185 its a little lean for 20 degree weather so I through the lid on with about 6 one inch
holes in it....runs better, then take it off when its around 40 and above.

11:1 on 93 sure, it's not a risk i'm willing to take but it's better than 87 on 11:1. I also run 100LL avgas in all my motors. 11:1 400ex and 13:1 450r. i also run it in my chainsaw, weedeater and lawn mower, lol.....that is mostly for the smell of course haha.

[CJM]

Built 4 of them, all 11:1, all ran 93 pump no issues.

[2001400exrida]

people seem to be missing the point, there are more factors involved in what compression will allow fuels. ignition lead, timing keys, piston brands and styles, i.e. flat top or domed, elevation, temperature, cams, as well as fuel types will all determine octane. a blanket statement that 11:1 is the cutoff for pump gas is safe to say, however i will not run mine on that, because since it is usually the recommended cutoff i'm not going to risk it. same with my 450r. the cutoff on pump fuel is 12.5:1 that is just a blanket statement that does not take into consideration the motor particulars and climate conditions, and my 13:1 gets nothing but 100 octane

here's my thing, if you run a higher octane, big whoopie....if you are running too low of an octane and detonation starts happening, you'll be sorry, so do i recommend somebody run 11:1 on anything less than 93, nope. and i'll ask what mods they're running before i just say, oh you're fine with premium with that comp ratio....

[Honda400rider14]

Well I would like to stay on the safe side . But the problem is fining 100 octane around without buying VP from the dealership for 70$ lol

[Longdong]

Here goes another pissing match! Ding ding!

[CJM]

Like I said, built 4 of them-all run in the sand and none blew due to detonation because of to low of an octane used.

Do recall that the cam lift and duration will effect overall compression as well. Stock cam is fine too, but more duration and lift help overall. DO yourself a favor and search around the threads on the EX forum. Plenty of 11:1 builds using pump gas.

[400man]

i think gt thunder makes a head gasket that is a hair thicker than stock, they say it helps ward off detonation problems?

[2001400exrida]

Many things will effect resistance to detonation, as mentioned cam duration is one of them, but there's a handful of other things to consider that i mentioned previously. It's up to each individual what they want to run.

[400man]

what about a slightly rich jetting? would it help it or make it worse? when I first got my 400 it was stock motor and I had problems with it fouling the spark plugs it was so rich. and even now with my mods and fcr carb, I think its still on the rich side, but to me if seems like it starts and runs better being a little rich.

[Stickman400]

Mine is stupid rich (230 main) and it makes the plug pretty black but it runs like an animal and never fouls a plug in the summer. I did just foul one today trying to start it with no choke after it has been sitting in the heated shop for the last 3-4 months. Put a new plug in and it fired right up in a second. I'd recommend jetting it so the plug is chocolate brown if you don't feel it gaining power from jetting it really fat.

[Honda400rider14]

Ok well I put a 175 in it and it bogs out if you stab the gas hard. What would you think i need to do now lol

[DragonGunner]

Got the air lid off....? Got a Clean filter....?

[JOHNDOE83]

If your bogging when you stab the throttle thats from being to lean on you pilot and needle circuit, not from the main jet, if the main jet is to rich it will stutter on the "top end rpm" and act like a early rev limiter, only then will the top end be to rich.

FYI "bogging" is a lean condition not a rich one.

www.jetsrus.com read jetting 101 specifically main jet tunning.

you should be able to go from 0 to wide open at the flick of the throttle with no hesitation or long drawn out revs.

Id reccommend a 200 main 42-45 pilot and a needle adjustment.

DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT!!!!

piniging can also be from to lean regardless of octane.

[2001400exrida]

best way to tell if you're lean on the pilot jet is to acellerate then let off and see if it's popping on decel. if you're bogging from idle to WOT, then you could very well be rich. A lean condition usually tends to "cut out" as opposed to bog. Another sign of being too rich would be black smoke, but it doesn't always happen. You can try what johndoe is recommending but i can almost garuntee a 200 main with a 45 pilot will be too rich on both ends.