ITP baja front help?

[MtnEX]

Guys, I have asked a couple of people and I think they will come through when they get a chance to, but a couple of you may be able to answer my question easy today without going much out of your way.

Here is what I need to know on 3+2 and 4+1 front offset on these wheels. I need a couple people to lay like a 10" straight edge to the outside face of the wheel, and hook a tape measure to the back side of the wheel center and just measure out to the straight edge.

I am going to do the same with stock wheels to compare so I have an accurate idea of where each will put me on front width.

[KKiowaTJ]

Not a very good pic, And you can see why I didn't put all four lugs back on. I used a small T square on the outer ring, Inside the flange/lip, To get the measurement. I know its chitty, But ya kinda need a 3rd arm to get it just right and is just me and my son. If better and or more etc are needed, I can get them tomorrow when another person is around and I can grab my oem nuts and flip them for a better bite.

ITP Baja 3+2 is what pic's are from.

[MtnEX]

Thanks, so that is almost 2.5" to the outside of a 3+2 Baja.

Now if someone will come through on 4+1. In Theory it should be about 1.5" out but it may not be. A lot of folks say a lot of wheels aren't true 4+1.

[Blodg]

I went out and measured my Baja 4+1 and come up with exactly 2" right on the line in the manner you requested.

For reference my OEM fronts measured 2 1/4" and my Douglas .190 3+2 measured 2 1/2".

[MtnEX]

Thanks so much guys!

Got some measuring to do!

[LxMxL97]

I have both a set of 4:1 and a set of 3:2 bajas I'll measure them tomorrow

[MtnEX]

Well that would be good.

I rechecked the measurements I took the other day on the rears. I could have sworn that the EX measured 45.5" or 46" stock and when I put the 9x9 rears on with the 3+6 offset I gained an inch each side. Like 47.5" or 48".

But that just ain't the case. It doesn't measure that wide. The outer rear wheel face is a good healthy inch farther out than stock indeed. But it just don't measure +2 with tires on.

The only thing I can figure is the 9" wide wheel just don't cause the sidewall of the tires to balloon as much.
I'm getting 47"... maybe 47.25"...

So now I am wondering if I assumed the old measurements or if it was the HD's that were on those rims at the time?
I think I just assumed.

[KKiowaTJ]

All you did was stretch the sidewall out a bit, Like a 12.50 tire on a 8" vs 10" wheel on a truck, Just makes it look stalky with stretching the sidewall. The footprint/tread width will never change. OEM is 3+5, I just had mine mounted and on the quad and the only difference is they look a tad smaller and have leaked all the air out already lol, One tire the first day.

[MtnEX]

Yeah it would seem a tire on a 9x8 wheel with 3+5 offset is going to be about 45.5-46" to the widest point outside...
But a tire on a 9x9 wheel with a 3+6 offset is going to be more around only 47" to the widest point outside...

The tire is still the same width and starting at the same spot at the inner bead.
Just one wheel is pulling the beads in to 8" apart and causing the sidewalls to bubble and center the tire 4/4 on the wheel.
The other wheel is only pulling the outer bead in to 9" apart, causing less sidewall bubble and center the tire 4.5/4.5 on the wheel.
So yeah the rims stick out 1" further each side, but overall width with tires mounted don't change but about 1".


So are you saying your Baja's leak? My old ones do for sure. But I have also seen people leak down because the beads are not really seated on both sides like they thought.

So take the valve core out and push hard on the sidewall with your hand and look between the tire and the rim. You may find the inner o of the tire hasn't popped over the bead hump...

Otherwise they may not be changed any and may still leak in the centers (my theory). I am going to get more anyways though. If they are not welded solid in the middle... I will silicone all the way around or something.

[KKiowaTJ]

I ended up getting two new sets of wheels, One Baja with GBC xrex's on them and the regular .190 t-9 9x9 and 10x5. I have 20-10-9 itp gncc's which are 19" and being a 10" tire on a 9" wheel, They didn't use bead seal. One rear was flat from my hour ride home just sitting, So I know they just popped them on. But I did bring in 6 wheels and tires in the middle of a rush on Friday, So it happens. Hes a good friend and will make it right, All I have to do is take them back.

[MtnEX]

Yep on GNCC's look for the rim protector to be popped out over the rim.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d44/ohsobad_chevy/101_0123.jpg

Some need a lot of lube and a lot of air pressure because the outer diameter of the rolled lip varies, as it is a non-issue with other tires.

[LxMxL97]

They do leak around the center welds the local off-road shop that I got them from applied silicone in the center and I've never had any problems but I have had trouble with the ones with no silicone and have you thought about just getting dwt beadlocks since they are only $50 more? That's what I would recommend since I already made that mistake and I'm now looking to get rid of my brand new wheels with 3 races on them lol

[KKiowaTJ]

I know they are only a few bucks more, But I don't see myself needing beadlocks, Just a little stiffer wheel and the Baja ring should do that. If I do end up getting more serious about racing and enter more events, Ill start looking into getting a set. I think im going to have the gncc's put back on the oem wheels and buy a set of 20-11-9 dunlap radials for the rear. The buddy that does my wheels has a few sets and will sell them to me at cost, So if the don't hook like I like, I can groove them out until I do lol.

[MtnEX]

Well, I do race my other bike XC... and what I find is that I only really like 2 things about beadlocks...

1- Easier tire mounting & dismounting & cleaning bark out of the bead area, particularly more so if running balls in the tires.

2- You get a cool look with a little extra strength & insurance

In the end though, I have to say that I have yet to have a situation on the track where a beadlock was really NEEDED. And if you have ever broke your own beads on an ATV tire/wheel, you know what I mean. It's REALLY hard to knock a good tire on a good rim off the bead.

[MtnEX]

Also, after collecting ACTUAL measurements from the hub side of the wheel center to the outside of the wheel, I find that most 4+1 wheels measure right around 2" to the outside face. I also have a set of wheels here with no tires that are stamped 10x5.5 that are 4+1.5... and they measure the same as a 4+1 to the outside pretty much. They are indeed 5.5" between the lips and about 6.5" overall. After looking at it real hard, the wheel center would have to be out at the bead hump to be a real true 4+1 inside.

Anyways, in the end this is the cause of all of the confusion I have read. This is why a lot say the stock front wheels are 4+1 and a lot say 3+2. Truth is, that's about right either way, lol. You're not really going to gain a 2" overall going to 3+2 wheels and you're not going to loose 2" going to 4+1. On a 400EX you are going to gain or loose about 1/2" total.

With my Kawasaki and the 10x5.5" wheels above, no difference going 4+1 and +1" total going to 3+2.
Honestly the biggest difference I see is that the 3+2 does move the inside of the tire out a whole inch and the centerline of the tread out an inch.

Overall now I can hardly care which wheel I get. If I buy, I think I will buy 4+1 for the caliper protection and less bar leverage.


In the rear as stated before a 3+6 wheel does indeed sit out an inch each side, but it only adds about an inch to the outside of the tires because the tire sits more square on the 9" wide wheel and the sidewall doesn't balloon out.

So I am just going to look at setting up my Honda to 46-47" in the rear depending on wheels and get some arms, hopefully that don't put me past 47".