The shoe string project!

[KKiowaTJ]

I have owned my 400 for a couple years now and have bought a few parts. But im at the point now, Why not a build thread! Only thing is, Its a shoe string budget as I have too many hobbies and that why I went with a 400 to begin with, Reliable! Some parts I have never had, So I don't need them now. The ones I need, Just going to either have to wait or buy a lower quality.

So far I been replacing oem items. I bought a low hour, Showroom at the time quad. Then I got my hands on it lol. But with every part I have to replace, I step up or stick with oem.

As of right now I 'plan' on racing a 5 race mx circuit. I also want to try a couple GNCC type races. There are many more items needed, But I did with out them once before, Ill do it again.

But as it sits, So far I have

Suspension: No link or suspension built for me, But I do have 450R fronts.

Steering: I have new ASR 12mm HD tire rods. Renthal tall bars but would like fat bars or 'that' type setup.

Stock chassis, Swinger, A-arms, and a tweaked stem.

I have a MSR AOF perch and lever, E delete and block off.

Motor wise, Your guess is as good as mine. I think/hope it is, But I have had no problems with 416's.

Needs a clutch, But I have a EBC DRC-F kit to put in it when I find the time.

AC bumper and nerfs that have seen a lot better days, But still serve their purpose.

Yoshi slip on and stock head pipe. Not too sure if its jetted correctly, That's on the list to but runs fine and have no problems.

I have a full new set of GBC xrex tires, MX6R fronts and GNCC rears.

Like I said, Shoe string build and ill do with out, But wont cheap out when it comes to having certain parts I feel need more attention with my riding style. My goal is to get this ******* up 75mph +/-. I like flat out/free riding with natural terrain. Trails and hills as well. Never had the chance at sand, But would like to.

I ordered some parts, They sent wrong, But the second time around I got a better deal I think and a better set of full wheels and an axle. ITP .190 fronts, Baja rears and a tusk adjustable axle.

1718106893

[KKiowaTJ]

I was able to borrow a computer from my sister and a member said he might be stepping up to a GoPro hero3+ so his hero2 will be for sale and its close enough to pay in cash.

As for the quad, Get clutch installed and then the rest. Still un decided on which tires I want on which wheels. I think im going to use the DWT A5's as a 2/3 for more width and see if I like it. If so I can pick up a couple more fronts or a-arms later on.
If I can get items I need in good used condition I will, If not have to save up for new.

1718106894

1718106895

I don't know why the double pic popped up?

[KKiowaTJ]

I do have a question though about the aftermarket wheels. I didn't order new lug nuts etc after I ordered the first pair, Then blew it off again like a dipchit the second. Anyone know the pitch and or do they sell a kit when a person goes aftermarket all around?

[CJM]

ITP makes lug nuts, if your wheels have the tapered inserts you need conical lug nuts like stock, if not the flat ones will do.

[2001400exrida]

Turn the stock lug nuts around for flat. I also use washers

[chronicsmoke]

Looks good man keep us posted on updates

[LxMxL97]

If you are wanting to do both types of racing I would get +2 a arms and then use 3:2 wheels for mx then get a set of 4:1 wheels for xc

[KKiowaTJ]

Cool, I didn't know about lug nut and turning then around. Glad to know in a pinch it will work, Just have to get/sift through for washers.


For the trails, Im gonna keep it as tight as possible. I still have my oem wheels and are not bent, So I figured id run those until I can get the bling 4/1 matching Baja's. I need a stiffer rear set, But just couldn't swing beadlocks. Plus with limited racing, I feel the Baja should fit the bill for me.
I hope to have a set of a arms by maybe mid summer, But im gonna save for the GP2 so I can see just where I need work and where I need to step it up etc. That and its always fun to show off the good and the bad.

But for the most part, I just need to get back into it and not half assed. Not sitting around when I could be doing something physical to enhance my stamina. I know its still winter so going to a gym might not hurt, But the wallet.
Practice wise, I have two tracks to use, One is a pro track and the other a death trap. But the death trap has the GNCC course we made last year. Plus I have my local area to get some seat time and there are trails, Just not really supposed to be on them, State park.
But so far, I cant wait to get back into it!

[KKiowaTJ]

Talked to a friend today that raced with me back in the day and before my time. He said the oem Honda wheels will hold up more than I think and leave the gncc's on them, Being its a 20-10-9 and a 9x8" wheel, Put the 20-11-9 on the Baja's, Less likely to pop a bead. Put the matching fronts on the .190's.
He told me more times than not, He bent wheels in the timber. That and to just mount the 20" mx6r's on the A5's. That way they will bend if they are going to during practice/seat time. Hes got a point, Hes friends with a mutual buddy that has the pro track and both were former(s) pro's and will most likely be ridding with.
I asked him about silicone on the beads to prevent blowing a bead and he said he had some bead seal? That is perfect and nobody at the track has popped one yet.

But plans are, Install clutch and make sure its 100% before I swap the axle and decide my spacing etc. Not going to run a 2/3, Just going to keep them as is.

I do have question regarding the rear axle, Its a tusk, Just curious if it is a decent axle, Get you by or a no problems just as good as the high dollar?
I know it was half the price of others, But has a lifetime warranty so I went off that and limited budget.

[cheater13]

Tusk (Gforce) axles are awesome. I had one on my watch list on ebay for a year but been putting it off because I have other more important parts to buy for my project 400ex. I've heard all good about them.

They have a lifetime warranty and are only around $193 shipped which is awesome.

[KKiowaTJ]

Tusk (Gforce) axles are awesome. I had one on my watch list on ebay for a year but been putting it off because I have other more important parts to buy for my project 400ex. I've heard all good about them.

They have a lifetime warranty and are only around $193 shipped which is awesome.



I didn't know that tusk/Gforce was one in the same lol. I went and read a lot of reviews and it seems like a stellar axle for the price. I cant wait to start tearing into it and getting it ready. Glad to hear the real life reviews are as good as the 'company' reviews.

[KKiowaTJ]

Didn't get a chance to work on the quad at all, Spent the weekend grooving full size tires. But I did get my GBC's mounted up. Should be able to get to it this week or weekend hopefully.

[CJM]

I had a tusk, was fine. Make sure you widen the front, otherwise its gonna push in turns (I forget if you were going to do so already)

[KKiowaTJ]

With the adjustability of the rear axle, And my fronts being a 3/2, It should be close to stockish. If not, a-arms will jump up higher on the list. But, Im most likely going to run my GNCC's on oem's on the rear and mx6r's on the front with a 3/2 wheel. I don't expect the DWT A5's to last long, But the 'tech' person said they are a great new wheel and he has them on his 450r :rolleyes:. All they are, Are churched up blue labels .125's with a rolled lip, I highly doubt they are that 'great', But ill soon see.


On another note, A buddy of mine that raced and still does when time allows, Said no matter what on all his R's, 250/450 and 400, He said to run toe out regardless of mx or trails, 1/4-1/8". He rides trails all the time and I do ride with him and never a problem. IMO hes too fast on some tight trails, But he has been doing it for 30 years +/-.
Im kinda iffy on it and would rather have it dead nuts straight, But ill give it a try and see how it feels. I know hes not going to BS me for the fact he will be riding along side and if it were too much, It would cause me/us to wad up. I guess everyone has their own 'set ups'.

[CJM]

Ive run toe in 1/4", toe out up to 1/4", zero toe, 1/8" i n and out. I like 1/8" in the best.

[KKiowaTJ]

That was my plan, Just get it set up and ready and just try different in/out/straight toe settings until I find one that suits me and the quad. Trial and error lol.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, After looking at the tire/wheel combo I went with, Im going to change it up again already. I didn't like the look so I went and ordered some Baja fronts to match the rears. Going to use the ITP .190's on the front for mx instead of chancing the DWT A5's. They *might hold up, But I know the .190's will.
Plus I thought the faster I go, And hit a tree, The Baja is less likely to bend lol. Plus they finally admitted 'they' screwed up and it was black labels I ordered and cut me a better deal on the Baja's, So when I send the A5's back ill only be $100 or so out of pocket for the better wheels, Lugs and wrenches. Forgot to order a F'N plug wrench, Again!

Ordered a full set of lug nuts, But will have to go grab some washers for them. Gonna try and find nickel coated or aluminum ones so there is no rust. I also added the tusk OEM wrench set to the list. I checked my nuts, One hangs lower, But on the quad, They are not as chunked and scraped up from the channel locks I thought they would be. The 1/2" and 3/8" leverage wrenches should make the axle swap go super easy.

April 5 is the first race and I know I wont be ready condition/physical wise. I need to get back into a routine asap. Im thinking the gym until its warm enough to ride a bike and go for a run up this crazy stupid hill, But helped with legs last time up and down.
I really wont have a chance at any tracks either. It will be too muddy and the tracks I have lined up for conditioning wont let people on until april(ish). So ill have to ride hack tracks and or go south or out west for a week to hit some decent tracks/jumps.
That and I would like a new throttle cable and jets before I go 'test and tune'. I know I want a 40p in it, Uni and slip-on is the only thing I know it has. So ill be shooting for a 160 main. Might be rich, But id rather have it that way. Only thing I can do is wait until I get it apart to see whats in it.

[CJM]

Zinc washers should work ok.

[KKiowaTJ]

Cool, Thanks. Didn't know zinc would do the trick just the same. But didn't want to put a corrosive or rust prone washer in there.

[CJM]

Yea zinc generally doesnt rust. They are the yellow colored washers I recall.

[MtnEX]

That was a good choice on the wheels... I saw the pic and the first thing I thought is... those front wheels are gonna fold up.

The fronts take a beating in XC. The guys that won't buy wheels until they have too... those are the guys running Baja or EVO or beadlock fronts only... lol...

Baja's collect mud and for some reason they leak? I imagine in the middle? But they are great wheels and great looking too. They are a tight second to beadlocks in my opinion and a top choice if you want to save a little weight vs a beadlock wheel.

[MtnEX]

Hints...

The Baja rears "should" widen the rear end by 2" being they are 3+6 offset vs 3+5 offset... and I thought I measured one time and thought it did. But being I had the axle off the quad and was wondering about this memory I went ahead and put it together and got a real accurate measurement. The wheels indeed are 3+6 and do sit out a whole inch more on each side, but they really don't add but an inch or so to the width with the tires mounted and all.

Strange right? I think it is because the 9x9 wheel lets the tire sit more square and it does not make the sidewall balloon out like the 9x8 rims do.


Oh and as far as a spark plug tool... what I did was go down to Walmart and buy the yellow metric strip of DEEP WELL Stanley sockets. I believe it is the 18mm? But it is just thin enough to fit down in there and get the plug with a ratchet and extension. Beats ordering a special thinwall socket or the OEM tool.

[CJM]

Shoulda said earlier you needed the tool, I had an entire tool kit laying around but I gave it to a buddy the other day. I woulda sent it just for shipping.

[KKiowaTJ]

That would have been sweet, I have all oem parts except the tool kit. I try and keep the oem for resale and ease of the all purpose tool. But I have seen where a cheap 18mm and gring them down is just as good, So ill go that route until I run across a tool kit.



Yeah, The fronts are tough, But when you factor in the trees, rocks and other hard obstacles would bent the lips easy. So I figured I take and send back the A5 ones I know will bend and with all the double points I had it worked out that im only $105 more out of pocket. But a better wheel and piece of mind.

Good thing to know about the width and psi loss, I have to keep a closer eye on the psi unless in town and fill to 5-6. The width, I have the Gforce/tusk rear axle so im gonna need a arms sooner lol. I did go 3/2 on the front Baja's but will manage with width by not using or using the small spacer in the rear.
I do like a wide quad regardless and our gncc clone condition track is wide for the most part and then the technical sections. Plus I have the oem wheels to go to if need be. I read that oem is actually 10x5.5" front so kinda waiting to see if they really are.

Yeah, Im going against all the odds and whatnot with a wider quad for XC and mx, But I managed before and just plan on having fun for the most part this time around. Sometimes the long way is shorter lol. But found out I need new front wheel bearings so another thing to add. The one is ok and the other is OK for now. But has a little play. The never ending fun lol.

[KKiowaTJ]

I have about an hour n a half to get an extra 10% off, But had a couple questions about said items. Tusk nerf bars with fat peg, Do they mount like the old AC pro-pegs? Or just lay over and bolt to the oem pegs? Can they be lowered like the AC if so?

Primary drive gold x-ring and alloy rear and steel front kit, 520x94 IIRC. I like the sound of the chain and its with in budget for all items. 8100 tensile strength for 30hp is plenty enough IMO, But don't know too much about PD and their 'kits'.

I lucked out and bought on double point day so I have that, Plus the extra 10% off till today with spring2014 code. Are they well worth items? I know they are not supersprox or PA/AC but reviews looked good but no pics of all hardware. Thanks for any quick help

[KKiowaTJ]

Ended up buying both items. OEM chain is on last stretch adjustment and didn't seem like too bad of a company. Wish I could have swapped out the front sprocket for a dts one that a couple more, But I can always send it back if they will swap for the difference and shipping.

There seems to be this trend, I need one thing and get it and a couple small. Points give free $$ for more, Use free $$ and a little more of your $$ for more, Earn more $$/points, Cycle continues until out OF $$. Wish I knew what was in the motor so I could order that so I have it on hand. Guess I could order a new jug and piston, Valves and springs etc and wait.

[CJM]

I had the tusk nerfs with the heel guards, I liked them they mounted to the peg, subframe and motormount pretty solid. They arent adjustable.

[MtnEX]

Primary Drive makes good chains and sprockets.

Chain and sprockets are wear items to me, and my 450 is well known for breaking them, so I started running these for the plain old steel sprockets vs breaking alloys and found the stuff is good. My buddy actually just spun his sprocket hub on his with the Primary Drive chain and sprocket. So it's stouter than the sprocket hub splines.

[Blodg]

I personally won't ever go with anything other than steel sprockets front and rear. In the past I bought a few aluminum rear sprockets for my 500cc 4-stroke 350X motor and literally after a few weeks the teeth were already getting rounded off. My 416EX doesn't have the monster torque that the 500cc motor had but the very minor weight savings is just not worth the trade-off with the durability of the steel sprockets in my experience.

[KKiowaTJ]

The chain and sprockets on it are oem and its stretched to the max IIRC might have one adjustment left. It has the steel front with alloy rear. Im not too sold on alloy either, But I hope it holds up. Only thing I could go off of for my machine was maybe 30hp, Chain has a 8100 tensile strength, I 'should' be OK was my thinking on that one givin the chain has a high rating.
Plus I figured while it is apart getting the axle, It could use all new to go on and start a season with as much 'fresh' as I can.

I hunted down some instructions on the tusk fat pegs. I don't know why but every pic of them is nerf and net only, Not like alba with hardware shown. But I found instructions on a kfx450r and they have the 'chrome' tubes that bolt where the old peg was, Then slide nerf over and add bolts.
I read all reviews and the only bad, Was people who didn't like the fact it was bolted to the motor mount. To me, Look sturdy as heck and should be what im kinda looking for, Less the offset mounting peg. Being 6'4 I like to find all the drops and rises lol.

But all in all, Building on a super tight budget is fun. Finally ordered axle wrenches, But I couldn't have a flawless order, Forgot a spark plug socket/tool. But I can get a thin wall 18mm and make my own until I run across a oem tool kit.

Starting to think I should have sold and bought a sled with all this snow around lmao, It just keeps on coming lol.

[CJM]

Yea I been buying primary drive stuff for awhile now, no issues. I always buy steel sprockets too alloys dont last to long.

For how the tusk mounts its better than the alba, the tab is welded to the tube-the alba has an insert that is just cinched down on the tube and Ive heard of them coming apart. Honestly I have pro armor nerfs on my 450 and they are a little nicer but the tusk ones never failed on my EX. The nets are cheesy tho, they tended to break really easy if a stick got kicked into them.

[2001400exrida]

the nets on the tusk or alba and cheap, you can use rath nets which is what i did. Also, the tusk ones are welded so they have a problem with cracking were the tab is welded to the tube. The bonus of the alba's is that it's not welded nor is it cinched. All it is is a tube that slides through the sleeve of the nerf bar. This is a better design than the tusk in my opinion because it allows a little play in there so it can flex a little instead of just snapping the welds like tusk ones like to do anytime you put pressure from underneath.

I also run the primary drive chain and sprocket kits from rmatv. Only thing i notice is that the front sprockets start curving teeth pretty easily, but i think this is something that would happen with any sprockets. I keep lots of front sprockets since i'm always doing gearing changes with TT racing, otherwise the chains seem to hold up very well.

[CJM]

The albas use a mount that slides into the tube and is locked into place using a strap that when tightened down holds it on. I used my tusk ones for 4 years and never broke anything but the nets. My AC nerfs I had on my 450 saw god only knows what before I got them (all beat) but they didnt snap at the weld either as they mount the same way.

what?

[CJM]

See the part i circled, it slides into the motor mount parts above it in the picture. Then you tighten it down down and overtime it comes apart and or breaks.1718107235

[KKiowaTJ]

Good to know rath nets work and are a lot better. The price was the main factor on the tusk and I have an account through rmatv so it was my only option other than double $ PA's. Ill just have to keep an eye on the welds and mounting points.

I know ill end up with a few fronts and couple rears for options and next time ill know to stick with steel. If all else fails I can send the sprockets back and get the dts lightened front that's a couple dollars more and swap to a steel rear. I have the A5's to send back yet, Could call and see if its an 'option' considering I bought a OEM replacement 'kit'.
Either way, Glad to hear PD is a good company just gotta watch what material goes where.

[2001400exrida]

Looks like the full heel guard nerfs are different then the basic nerfs from alba. The ones i have don't have that pinch clamp, they're not heel guards though, just the cheap alba nerfs. I run the lightest thing possible for tT and FT, no heel guards at all, i can stand on them every which way though, but i'd bet if i hit trails too hard with these that they wouldn't hold up well. TT and FT they're fine. I like it because it allows some room to move and flex without damaging the motor mounts or bolts.

You got lucky with your tusks CJM, i can't tell you how many of pictures iv'e seen of those welds cracking and breaking on the rock/tusk nerf bars. I had good luck with the set on my 400 too, but i think if you trail rode hard they wouldn't last like rath or some of the heavy duty ones.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/T2eC16ZysE9sy0i2JlBR-qDwCfg60_12_zps43c73593.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rschaef83/media/T2eC16ZysE9sy0i2JlBR-qDwCfg60_12_zps43c73593.jpg.html)

[CJM]

I will also add: The supplied hardware with the tusk nerfs I felt were very cheap and less than grade 8. I replaced it all with grade 8 bolts. I will say the fit was dang good, had to use a jack and a ratchet strap to get them to totally line up but they fit well otherwise.

Those look like they just slide into the front mounts like the AC slid into the footpeg area. I was amazed my AC nerfs didnt fall off-only thing really holding them on as the motormount tab. I thought it was strange..

[KKiowaTJ]

See the part i circled, it slides into the motor mount parts above it in the picture. Then you tighten it down down and overtime it comes apart and or breaks.1718107235


That's what I was thinking and reason I went tusk, That and having an account makes it easier. But to me, Just looked like hose clamps holding it on. I wanted old AC pro pegs, But couldn't find any for a decent price in decent shape lol. That there should tell me to stay away lmao but I always liked their products.
The tusk IMO seemed to have better mounting system all around.

[CJM]

The AC's were ok but honestly they are cheap.I have no idea how mine held up for so long without breaking. I got a friend who has the same kind on his 450 as me and his are so shot its not even funny-yet they wont fully break..

See here about what happens with the alba vs tusk: http://www.trx450r.org/forum/1646963-post22.html

[KKiowaTJ]

Yea, Every item I get, I usually go and get 10.9 or grade 8 hardware. I never trust any companies hardware because the cheapest bolt wins. You saved me a trip lol, Need washers for wheels in zinc, Ill hold off and get duplicates of the hardware they send me.

If it were not for a small budget, I would have went with factory43's. I like them for some reason and nothing else 'looked' decent except the tusks because of price and all you get. I know ya get what ya pay for, Im not looking for these to last long, But will give me an idea if I like the fat pegs and heel guards.

[CJM]

I refused to buy anything till I found something reasonable, new pro armors are $$$. I got a used in good shape set for a heck of alot less.

[KKiowaTJ]

They aint cheap and if you want a good set, You are going to pay high $$. If I like them, I can always sell them if there is anything left and recoup a few $'s toward 43's. Id like to find them used, But not likely. But if I can off set the price, The purchase is justified if they hold up.

[CJM]

That was my justification for buying them for the 400ex, they worked great for dune/trail riding.

[2001400exrida]

another option is to buy the cheap tusk/alba ones that i linked for around $80, or you can find them used for $50ish. And then seperately purchase the tusk heel guards that go with them. It's not all one piece but you would have the whole thing for less than the cost of a set of the ones you're talking about.

it's a matter of opinion vs the tusk and alba full nerf bars. I can see how either one would break, the tusk design in my opinion is no better than the alba design, those tusk welds crack and break notoriously. Neither of them will be sturdy compared to the full bar through the frame design. The alba's will flex when you stand on them and the tusk will feel more solid with the way it's welded, but you have to know that the tusks won't give and that's why those welds crack. the alba's at least give a little. if the tusk ones break, you're pretty much looking at having to get it welded. if the alba ones break you can just replace the mounted tube, real easy.

in the thread linked by cjm you will see that people are happy with both brands, and other people say both brands will break. If you're not racing aggressively either one will work.

[KKiowaTJ]

Got some more bling for the machine today, Gotta love the ups dude! The list of 'need' is getting short now, Finally! IIRC I think I have as many new items to install, As I do money wise in the quad when bought lol.

But all that's left, Need new fresh front wheel bearings, Want Carmichael bend 1 1/8" gold bars and clamp or the adapters. Straighten stem until 'needed', Send back A5's for rear wheels and a throttle cable. I might crack into the carb and bump the jets up a step, But that's still up in the air.

For the most part, Suspension! Gotta figure 'what' I want done and who I want to do it. Im most likely going to have my buddy do it, Race tech with gold valves. But im still looking into either cutting a coil or so off the current springs, Or use the springs from the old 400's to get the height down and a plusher ride.
I know I might waste more time this way, But id kinda like to know if it would work and if so, The outcome. It was mentioned to me and ever since I have been mulling it around.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well I got the rear wheels ordered today, Going to send the A5's back in the morning. Went with ITP .190 9x9's. Read a few mixed reviews, Most mx/sx guys said the didn't hold up too well, But ill never go over 45ft+/- so I don't think ill have a problem with them bending.

Next is wheel bearings and to install clutch and other items and adjust the quad as much as possible . Ill get my throttle cable and WB's here soon along with some jets.
Thing that is pissing me off the most, I cant get any seat time and im tired of 'working out'. Pointless and does nothing to help with where and what you need. I train for the condition ill be under not a 'general' routine. Then, Soon as snow and cold goes, It will be a F'N mud pit! So it will be interesting to say the least. Looking outside and then at the calendar is getting tight and depressing.

[KKiowaTJ]

Anyone use the 1 1/8" tusk bar clamp adapters to run fat bars?
I see pros and cons of them and a whole new camp would be best, But my stem is still decent and ill buy that as a whole when the time comes or another stock stem if I like the height set-up. Just looking to see if anyone ran them at all or any info for that matter on them would be helpful. Thanks

[chronicsmoke]

My buddy is using pro taper brand ones but i think they are the same thing.. I've used the Tusk 7/8" risers on a few budget projects too, only negative is it puts more leverage on the stock stem and it will snap like a twig.. maybe I just bailed exeptionally hard lol..

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/200/zka0.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/5kzka0j)

[2001400exrida]

stock stem generally snaps pretty easily to begin with. I had a buddy who had a houser on his yfz and i saw that thing flip down more hills than i can count. it was the strongest stem i'd ever seen. bars would bend every time but never the stem.

i use the bar risers kkiowa, they're an easy way to get a better feel on the machine, imo.

[chronicsmoke]

I've bent stock 400ex and raptor stems with the risers but they were all above the clamp.. this was the first time I had seen one snap like that and it was below the clamp. I figured it was because of the increased leverage from the bar risers.

please don't get defensive, I'm not saying what you use is junk..

[2001400exrida]

nobody is getting defensive young man, please don't assume such negative thoughts, it only breeds drama. I use bar risers on my machine, so i'm telling KKiowa my experience.

Reading what i said.....i mentioned how much better an aftermarket stem really is......bar risers are great and while they may put more leverage on the stem the only stems i've seen break and bend are the stock ones with or without risers. they do it real easy, especially when you put strong handlebars on there, the only thing that will give is the stem.

[chronicsmoke]

My bad, the way you defended the risers I thought you were a little butt hurt that I said they's make the stock stem snap, which, isn't the case. They'll make them snap much easier which may equate to a snapped like mine I pictured VS a bent stem that can still get you home..

IMO one tumble with a stock stem w/ risers and you can pretty well guarentee you'll need a new one.. from my experience anyway.

Back to the OP's Q about the risers that go from 7/8 - 1 1/8; they'll raise the bars like 1/2", probably not enough to notice if you are comfortable with your current setup. My buddy has no complaints, it works good he just doesn't have the coin for a +1 stem right now. Theres also an antivibe kit for stock stems a copmpany started maiking if you're interested I can dig for the link.

[MtnEX]

I run something like that which uses the stock base, a riser and switches it over to 1 1/8"

It works just fine, no problem and the little bit of rise don't hurt at all with most bars.

All in all though, I am not real real sure it is much of an importance. I would have probably been happier with some turner 7/8" bars like I have on my polaris?

Oh, and all in all, I find the most effective combo for a straight stem and bars is to keep the plastic side up and the rubber side down. :)

[2001400exrida]

i'll have to measure mine when i get home, i think they're like 2" risers, or maybe 1.5" riser. I've never rolled this quad over, i've had it on it's side, but never rolled. I personally can't see how the riser would put that much more leverage on the stem, when in fact usually what hits the ground and causes the stem to bend is the handle bar ends. If you've got a high bend bar that's really strong it will definitely be more of a culprit to bending the stem then the risers. Aftermarket aluminum bars are so much stronger than a stock steel stem, so almost always the stem is the part that will give first. run the stock soft steel bars and you might save a stem and ruin a set of bars. I once saw a chick flop down a good size hill on a bone stock 450r with renthall bars, when she got to the bottom the stem was snapped about halfway around, was still holding on very slightly enough to get back to camp. no risers. Stock stems will bend and break all day long if you're rolling hard with aftermarket bars....they're just the weakest spot.

Truth be told if you roll with aftermarket strong bars you'll most likely bend the stock stem, risers or not.

far as the butt hurt comment dave....you don't have the ability to offend me, so let's never assume i'm butt hurt or being defensive and everything will be fine and dandy.

[KKiowaTJ]

Thanks for all the 'real life' use and what to expect. I cant afford the stem and 1 1/8" clam right now, But I could the adapters/risers that convert and bars etc. I still have the old school atv bend renthals on it, I like the height, But want a fat bar that's straight across and sits up a little higher. The 7/8 to 1 1/8" rises it 1.5" IIRC and the bars I want to use will keep it pretty close to what I have now, Maybe a little shorter and that would be fine IMO.

The stem will most likely snap, Not gonna argue that lol mines got a tweak in it as it is. My main concern was the safety factor. Only thing I can think of is to install them with red Loctite, Not the top caps, And go from there.
I just didn't know if they are look at as a safety factor among the atv world. I don't want to be the cause of a pile up from them or land and have the bars still in hand, Just not connected lol.
They also wouldn't be able to be sold/ran if they were a safety hazard I would thank, But just wanted to hear some opinions on 'real life' use and what going to snap first or whole thing lol. Just wanted to know a. do you guys trust them and b. collateral damage when using them. Seems ill be replacing either way, This will get me by for the time, However long or sort that is lol. Thanks guys

[2001400exrida]

get the ones that are actually the bar riser and clamps together, if you get the ones that just shim the old clamps i don't think they're nearly as good. The ones i have will more than likely snap the bolt before they give out to the stem, not for sure though.

[chronicsmoke]

The stem will most likely snap, Not gonna argue that lol mines got a tweak in it as it is. My main concern was the safety factor. Only thing I can think of is to install them with red Loctite, Not the top caps, And go from there.
I just didn't know if they are look at as a safety factor among the atv world. I don't want to be the cause of a pile up from them or land and have the bars still in hand, Just not connected lol.

Haha no man they will be fine, these aren't like wheel spacers at all. The only time you'll ever notice how weak the stem is with the added leverage is if you tip it upside down.

First time my 400 was upside down with the stock stem and spacers it bent. I tried to bend it back but it bent right at the clamp and "ovaled" the tubing. I opted to get a stock 450r stem and run the 450r stem on the EX (you need 2 450r clamps, see X-Tech build for pictures) and I put the spacers on the stock 450r stem and that worked good. The 450r stem is quite a bit bigger than the ex stem so it's definitly more solid.. no effect on performance but I would think it's stronger. After that I found a +1 Tag aftermarket stem for a 450r for ~$100 and now I'm running that on my EX and have the stock stem with risers as a spare for either my 450r or 400ex if I bend/break one.

[KKiowaTJ]

I was just looking at the $30 dollar drop in 7/8 to 1 1/8 causing a rise of 1.5". The tusk brand. I see the LSR clamp on rmatv, Says on the stem you need 'that' clamp, But could I run it until the stem dies? Its a two bolt anti vibe IIRC, Ill get some links to what im talking about and the LSR can I lol.

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1316/3154/Tusk-Universal-Big-Bar-Clamp-Kit

That's the ones I can really afford with bars, grips etc, Id Loctite them and I don't foresee a problem, But are these 'ok'?

Or will this fit a stock stem as well as LSR stem?

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1253/5473/Lone-Star-Handlebar-Clamp?v=3010

Im a LSR whore lol, I always had no issues with their stuff so I put it above all else if its an option $$$ wise. The price gap is big, But if it fit I can run stocker stems on the cheap I would try and swing it for piece of mind and put the stress on bars and stem.
I was also told to trim off 1-1.5" off each end of the handle bar itself, Is there a method to this madness? Im going for the Carmichael bend sense its straight across for the most part, low rise and pull back. A buddy told me the bend I needed from what I told him and said to trim them?

[CJM]

The LSR clamps you need to run a anti-vibe stem. Tusk ones can be used on a stock stem.

[KKiowaTJ]

Cool, Thanks. Ill hope for the best until I can get a whole stem with clamp. That's kinda ****ty they sell one and then charge for another you need, Why not just put them together? If you run their stem, chances are you would the clamp.

[chronicsmoke]

Cool, Thanks. Ill hope for the best until I can get a whole stem with clamp. That's kinda ****ty they sell one and then charge for another you need, Why not just put them together? If you run their stem, chances are you would the clamp.

I've got the same LSR clamp on the TAG stem on the 400ex.. It is designed to have those rubber bushings inside the tubing of the stem for the anti-vibe, I don't think you could adapt that to a stock ste,. but maybe you could if you rigged soemthing up.

These are the bars I was talking about a few posts ago, anti vibe clamps for stock stems. I didn't realize they were so expensive though.. http://www.mzmperformance-atv.com/honda-450r-400ex-handlebar-mounts.

I wouldn't hesitate to go those Tusk spacers if you're saving to get aftermarket stuff.. Like I said you'll be fine untill you crash, if it ends up upside down you'll probably be in need of a new stock stem (450r stock stem :muscle:) and two clamos and that will make the "stock" stem twice as strong and wont bend 'as easily' if you do crash, but hopefully you don't. Haha

[KKiowaTJ]

We all have a plan.... Get hole shot, Ride a wide quad and get consistent and put distance between you and them!

Then the gate drops and all other 19 riders had the same 'plan' LMAO and you hit or miss, Go slow because of traffic and there is distance, To make up and getting bigger lol!

You never plan or want too, But it happens. Im gonna post up some fresh pic's and the way she sits now as is. In the one pick, It looks like the bar is bent up clutch side, But I never noticed it until then. Plus my nerf, Its pretty fubar from laying down the trail pressure and hill climbs.

[KKiowaTJ]

I think im going to hold off on the bars for the time being, The ones I have are not that bad, Plus id rather kill them than to have them lay around. When I need new, Ill get them then.
I did get my front Bajas done, But didn't get a pic but im sure I will soon.

The nerf had a big branch wedge in there on a hill climb. I lucked out and it kicked me around and was able to kill it and remove.

Anyone run the dunlap/holeshot looking tire that came on Yamaha 450's? A buddy bought a bunch and the price seems decent for them in 20-11-9 and its a true to size IMO, Wide as hell. Kinda curious what ply and I know I can groove a workable pattern, But is rather do that later on.

[MtnEX]

You might straighten that nerf... maybe...

Steel tube the inside diameter.
Bend it back on the end until the tube looks straight, then slide the tube farther to the corner and bend the whole section back to line back up with the frame mount?

[MtnEX]

Need a favor on the front baja's if you will...

Tell me which offset you got.

Then if you will, lay a straight edge against the outside face of the wheel and use a ruler to measure from the inside face that contacts the hub out to the straight edge.

I need to collect measurements like that on 3+2 fronts and 4+1 fronts, so either one you got will help me out.

[KKiowaTJ]

Need a favor on the front baja's if you will...

Tell me which offset you got.

Then if you will, lay a straight edge against the outside face of the wheel and use a ruler to measure from the inside face that contacts the hub out to the straight edge.

I need to collect measurements like that on 3+2 fronts and 4+1 fronts, so either one you got will help me out.


Im running 3/2's, Even if I go wider on arms, I still like the 3/2. Got a couple different pic's for ya, One to show it was a Baja, The others so you can determine the exact vs what you have. It sat flush and didn't touch the tire unless I moved it a 1/2" +/- back and fourth. Enough you should be able to see and if not ill get ya some more in daytime light.

[KKiowaTJ]

Ill get the pic's you need in the daylight so they are more clear and I actually get the pic's you need lol.

[MtnEX]

Yeah, looking for from the side that touches the hub out to the outside of the wheel with the baja ring on it.

That would be really helpful. I have learned you can't tell much going by offsets because that spec is inside the wheels and sometimes they are really not all that accurate of a spec either even inside. Like I have seen some stock wheels that are supposed to be 3+2 but are really like instead of 2" they are really 1.5" inside the wheel and 2" all the way to the outside. I have seen some 4+1 that are also more like 4+1.5 and measure around 2" to the outside of the wheel.

Not all that accurate and it is annoying not knowing when you are trying to figure out what width you are going to be final with your arm and wheel selection... cause it is already going to vary a little depending on tire selection and how much it bubbles. Annoying when you are trying to end up pretty close to the same width front and rear, etc... and also in XC it can be a big deal... inch or two matters then. Guess it does also for guys trying to get close to 50" for MX without going over.

[KKiowaTJ]

I sure hope tusk has better quality and material in their axles and nerfs, The lug nuts leave a lot to be desired. This is what the tusk universal ones look like after installing, And taking one off to fit a Baja for another member. Did they use old melted down beer cans? Ill most likely have to eat them and go to Fastenal and buy half nyloc's to replace them. Big disappointment for such a small item you cant really mess up, They found a way though.

[MtnEX]

Wait... Tusk is the RMATV brand right? Locking lug nuts?

I bought those for my KFX and have had no issues at all. I just use a ratchet and metric sockets on them with wave lock washers under them. I do tighten them He-Man tight though. Bought them because I had a Hiper Tech 3 come off that bike. Real thick billet center and shorter than honda lug studs in the hubs.

The more I mess with this stuff, the more I honestly prefer the tapered acorn style lug holes and lug nuts. I saw a set of Baja's with these inserts not long ago. But I don't know how they did them.

[KKiowaTJ]

I bought the tusk brand, Two packs from RMATV. They carry all the tusk stuff and you can save a buck on ebay, Or gain reward points through RMATV. I used zinc washers and metric 14mm iirc and yeah im a bigger person, 6'4 212, And put some into it, But I couldn't stop them from rounding going on and they are the correct pitch and I always chase threads to clean burrs. Its just my luck! If I go local I cant get a flanged nut so ill do half ny's and a tad bigger washer and just check the more often.

[CJM]

I bought itp flat style lug nuts awhile back, worked well.

[KKiowaTJ]

Ill look for the ITP flat ones, Kinda want to keep it all ITP since it ended up that way. But the lugs I found were more for the flashy 4x4's than sport quads. Ill find something local that's comparable and I have used before ad just make sure to check them more often. I hope its not going to be 'one of those years' lol. It ended like chit and 14' started even worse.

[LxMxL97]

I see you removed your warning labels cut out a piece of diamond plate and rivet it in there that's what I did looks a lot better that that blank recess in the plastic

[2001400exrida]

you're not gonna beat the stock lugs, i tried the cheapies a couple times. finally just bought some good stockers and for my real soft non tapered style rims i turn them to the flat side and i use an aluminum washer. These are the ones i used last season though and they're convenient if you're switching from stock rims to non tapered style ones because they have an adapter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATV-BOLT-Lug-Locks-Lug-Nuts-Flat-and-Tapered-20005-LUG-S-TRX-300EX-400EX-/271271883182?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f291071ae&vxp=mtr

[CJM]

This is what I used: http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/726/5353/ITP-Flat-Base-Chrome-Lug-Nut?term=itp%20flat%20lugnuts They arent cheap but they dont rust and have held up very well-even to my impact guns.

[KKiowaTJ]

For the time being im going to use the stock ones backward until I can get some of the ITP flat ones. Ill most likely use both, But want to have two 'full sets' just in case. Hope they will work with me on the junk ones I bought or just a 'bad batch'. Either way, I wont be using them again regardless lol.

[2001400exrida]

if you're going into the soft aluminum wheels without the tapers on the stock lug nuts, be sure to get a washer in there or you'll eat into your wheel.

[KKiowaTJ]

I bought some zinc washers for the locking ones and am going to use the washers and oem ones backward until I can get a better set.

[MtnEX]

I always use washers or wave lock washers with the flat style.

I never had any problem with the flat ones on my Kawasaki with stock wheels. I only had problems when I went to Hiper Tech 3's. Half of it was the lug and flats were real close to the same diameter as the bored recesses in the billet centers. The other half was the billet centers are so thick and the Kawasaki lug studs are so much shorter. Couldn't use the washers and such. Had troubles.

All in all I have just flat decided I like the tapered lug holes and nuts better now. But I think I can live with them on the Baja's because the centers aren't crazy thick.

Originally I was going to get the new Baja's for the Honda for the strength and look I was going for. But now I think I am either going to put the Tech 3's on my Honda and new Baja's on my Kawi, or sell the Tech 3's for CF1's... or install Honda studs in the KFX hubs.

[2001400exrida]

The other half was the billet centers are so thick and the Kawasaki lug studs are so much shorter. Couldn't use the washers and such. Had troubles.





i have the same problem with the rims that my hoosiers are on. The inner rim is so thick that with a washer and the stock lugs i can barely get the lug to hold all the threads. It does but there's no stud sticking out so it's on there as much as it can go.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, After a couple emails, Pics and calls, RMATV is sending me 16 ITP flat ones for free. I should have went with them the first time around being i bought itp wheels, But I cheaped out and it bit me.
Glad that got fixed, Now just have to track down the hardware bolts in zinc or SS to replace the ones that come with my nerfs. Im sure they will hold up ok, But 10.9's or gr8 would give me better piece of mind.
I also think im going to pick up the set of dunlap's in 20-11-9 radial, The stock YFZ's iirc. The gncc's are cool and all, But work better on oem wheels and are 19" so ill have a set of middle of the road mx tires.
Now im just waiting for decent weather to start hanging these parts and install my clutch. My dad had surgery again on his wrist so that extra set of hands is out lol for a bit, But nothing I cant do alone really. Lack of motivation lmao!

[chronicsmoke]

I've always just used my stock lug nuts and put them on backwars.. but I have a few sets of wheels/tires that have both tapered inserts and the flat style.

Looking good so far.. Thios pics on P.7 were the first I'd seen :muscle:

[KKiowaTJ]

I've always just used my stock lug nuts and put them on backwars.. but I have a few sets of wheels/tires that have both tapered inserts and the flat style.

Looking good so far.. Thios pics on P.7 were the first I'd seen :muscle:



Funny thing, That I think is the first time I posted a 'full' ish pic of the quad. That's what my spares/whats on it now on the front and seem to work just as good.
Id rather post action shots, But have none lol, My buddys GF is a photographer so she wants money, But makes it off me as im the only one who will hang it out on a bike track with sx jumps. I started giving the finger and wearing offensive words on my gear so she would stop lol. Some actually made more for her.

70 degree faces that just throw you up, Built on a hill side lol. I cant hit but a few, Not enough torque on a quad and a 450r I blew the tires off trying, Tacky or dry just not safe for quads.
Guess im just not a pic person when it comes to the machine at hand, But ill post up the eye candy lol. But do it for the fact I don't like to say I bought this and that in a short amount of time. I have spent more in 9 pages, Than I did for the quad lmao and im not even close to where I 'need' to be.

I need arms, stem and swinger. Suspension done to my spec's and a mx or do the shocks and stock link. I don't have a problem now, I don't think? I just up shift a gear and pin it! I know it will help, But enough to me to justify its price alone when im comfortable now, Ill get one most likely, I just need to ride one comparable or with to see if its actually worth it to me and I can always have the rear re-done for it.

Just like a stabilizer, never had one back then and did fine, No reason to run one now when I can honestly ride and get no arm pump after I get a few hours after winter break. Guess im just old school lol, I don't even care about the plastic and scratches as long as it don't snap. When it gets real bad, That's what sticker kits are for lol.

But I did get a couple more things swapped around and bought some 20-11-9 dunlap radials. Got them for $89 a tire and a set of 18" take offs for my lawn mower. Need a snow plow so some DWT mx tires and weights, Blade and im set! Up for failure lol.

Some pic's lol

[KKiowaTJ]

Anyone run or know anything about the alba a arms, +2 adjustable long travel? They are made of the same material as the rest and I talked with Houser, LSR and ASR about the 450R shocks and 400s. They are 1.5-1.75 longer, Long travel arms cure that and fill the gap.

The price is affordable for a budget build and no heim joints. Look to be a decent arm for the price. Any feedback on them or opinions?

[LxMxL97]

Anyone run or know anything about the alba a arms, +2 adjustable long travel? They are made of the same material as the rest and I talked with Houser, LSR and ASR about the 450R shocks and 400s. They are 1.5-1.75 longer, Long travel arms cure that and fill the gap.

The price is affordable for a budget build and no heim joints. Look to be a decent arm for the price. Any feedback on them or opinions?

I've personally never had an expirence with them by my friend has and he constantly complained about them mainly his bushing they went out after 3 races and I've been on my houser a bushings for 3 years

[2001400exrida]

The price is affordable for a budget build and no heim joints. Look to be a decent arm for the price. Any feedback on them or opinions?

a set of good heims will be more pricey. you price out some lsr, walsh, or roll design heim style a arms and your jaw will drop. Most of the top a arm companies use heims because they operate 10 times smoother. Maintenance might be a little more but overall they're very popular now in the sport.

I've never run the alba's but i think the concept is cool. That would awesome if you can just throw 450 shocks on there and then run LT and have it be pretty close to proper geometry. Of course having the shocks worked by a pro to set them up will be best but on a "shoe string project" that's a good method. Let us know how it works.

[chronicsmoke]

Anyone run or know anything about the alba a arms, +2 adjustable long travel? They are made of the same material as the rest and I talked with Houser, LSR and ASR about the 450R shocks and 400s. They are 1.5-1.75 longer, Long travel arms cure that and fill the gap.

The price is affordable for a budget build and no heim joints. Look to be a decent arm for the price. Any feedback on them or opinions?

They look alright but I've heard some pretty negative reviews and a few that like them.. From what I've heard, they were made with cheap bushings that were wearing out on guys after one-two rides and Alba had them backordered for a month or two. I never liked the adapter either, that just sketches me out to no end. Some guy on a Yam. thread said he bent one of the adaptors on a rock his first race and had to wait months for new ones so he was grounded..

I think I'd just stay ST and find a used pair of name brand arms and get 450r shocks rebuilt (run the stock 450 shocks as is) The LT setting on the Alba's need the correct length long travel shock you can't really mess around there if you value your safety. I'm not sure what the required length but I'm sure it has to be at least 18.5-19.5" where 450r stockers are what, 16.5"? figure ~2:1 leverage ratio meaning theoretically you potentially would be losing 4" of wheel travel and a pretty good possibility that your frame will hit the ground before the shocks are fully compressed, which is asking to be hospitalized.

[KKiowaTJ]

I mentioned no heims for the matter of just jumping on it and go for a ride, Nothing but a cruise and don't really want to hear them rattle. I have worked with heims and johnny joints and they are sweet, But like mentioned they take a little more attention then the next set with regular bushings. No ruling them out though.

Well I couldn't find reviews, That is most likely why lol. When I was told it 'will fill the gap', It was a .5" difference, So I was told lol. But for the safety, And the fact I will need them done for my riding style, LT arms was a 'happy medium' for the time being. But I wouldn't be too happy waiting for bushings or adapters to show. Or if I was bottoming out etc too many negatives I don't want to deal with and the 'safety factor'. I don't want to get hurt nor do I want it to take others out too.

Id love to sit and pull the trigger on leager's or Duncan arms, Hell anyone would lol. I think ill just stick to the LSR arms or ASR if I get in too much of a kick to need/want them. I like houser too so its up in the air, But when you see alba at half price and all comes with, Gotta be a catch and no real reviews was it and the above opinions is enough to keep me away.

Only reason ASR is still on the list, Their 12mm tie rod kit was like adding power steering on the quad. Going +2 I would need new rods and could hopefully swap out the regular ones and pay the difference.

[2001400exrida]

another thing about ASR is that you can very easily and readily replace those heims with good ones and the arms instantly become a solid setup. I know a couple members here run the alba's and have good luck with them, that's on a 450 but i would think the quality would compare.

[chronicsmoke]

Well I couldn't find reviews, That is most likely why lol. When I was told it 'will fill the gap', It was a .5" difference, So I was told lol. But for the safety, And the fact I will need them done for my riding style, LT arms was a 'happy medium' for the time being. But I wouldn't be too happy waiting for bushings or adapters to show. Or if I was bottoming out etc too many negatives I don't want to deal with and the 'safety factor'. I don't want to get hurt nor do I want it to take others out too.
I was always under the impression the 450r stockers were ~.5" longer than the 400ex stockers, which would mean the LT setting on the Alba's would be 17" roughly (assuming there was a .5" of extended* length remaining while 'filling the gap') which seems a bit short to me by looking at the arms and the different lower shock mounting locations.. I'm just kind of thinking out loud though.

Id love to sit and pull the trigger on leager's or Duncan arms, Hell anyone would lol
Haha me too, I know I can't afford to just pull the trigger on brand new 5-600 dollar arms.. I wish :o I got my +2 Burgard arms for like $200-$250 shipped and have been nice and tight since I got them..

[KKiowaTJ]

You know how aftermarket places are, They want to sell their product and when it don't work like it does in the mind and what was said, They send you to the tech department and they will tell me I need longer shocks lol. I like them, But just something about them that I didn't just 'buy' and go from there and glad I didn't.

I have always liked the American star arms for some reason. Read all the FF arm opinions and what not and I think I would like them, Being they are close and I went off that style of attachment via heim joints for info. I know id feel better on a set that needs more attention/cleaning than I would a iffy 'shot in the dark' with 450r fronts and the height difference.

The hard part im finding is, Do I go with arms and have the suspension built for them, Or do I have the shocks done and pick up arms when I can and hope the set-ups were close. My suspension guy told me to try and get all the main parts so he can measure and do what he does. He said he can fix any problems, But I don't want to go there twice if I don't need to.
I think im going to get what I want/need, Then take it to him and get I dialed in. He will also be at the track so he will be able to monitor the suspension and fine tune it to track conditions I like.

[chronicsmoke]

The hard part im finding is, Do I go with arms and have the suspension built for them, Or do I have the shocks done and pick up arms when I can and hope the set-ups were close. My suspension guy told me to try and get all the main parts so he can measure and do what he does. He said he can fix any problems, But I don't want to go there twice if I don't need to.
I think im going to get what I want/need, Then take it to him and get I dialed in. He will also be at the track so he will be able to monitor the suspension and fine tune it to track conditions I like.

I'd say definitly A-arms first, unless you're going standard travel. All standard travel shocks should be able to use the same standard travel a-arms regardless of brand name.

Long travel usually have different lenghts for each brand, but say if you were set on buying a pair of elkas that are valved for your weight on +2 houser A-arms and you could verify the info with elka, you could buy them and then wait for a pair of Houser LT arms.. though I would think something that specific would be few and far between. lol.

[KKiowaTJ]

I think im going to go standard arms and have the 450r's re-sprung and built for me. That way it cuts out a lot of 'ifs' and 'will it work'. That way I know its 'shock' related and all I have left up front is built for me. Easier to deal with and it kinda keeps it all Honda parts for the most part which I kinda like. I know there is more plush to be found, But keeping the cost down here, Makes room for a swinger or stem and I found a Burgard +1 stem with 1 1/8" mount that's in my range.

But im curious when you mentioned a 450R stem, What all did ya have to do for it? Any write up or link by chance? I have a buddy who has one laying around.

[chronicsmoke]

Honeslty I would say that is you're best bet for a shoe string project. You can still ride the 450r shocks stock until you get yours built which is a big plus also..

The 450r stem just needs two 450r stem clamps (where the stem clamps to the frame) because the 400ex clamps are too small for it.. That's pretty much it.

The link to Ed's X-tech thread; http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?487348-Teixeira-TRX-400EX-Build/page9 post#89

here's a pic of my +2 450r stem

[KKiowaTJ]

Did the 450 give you +2 or is that a +2 450 stem? Either way looks like ill go that route along with a 450 swinger for the +1 there also. That makes the budget even better. I like the looks of your set-up, I have been wanting that combo for awhile, For some reason I like the look and the better choices of bar cuts/'drag bars' per say because im 6'4 lol.

[chronicsmoke]

Did the 450 give you +2 or is that a +2 450 stem? Either way looks like ill go that route along with a 450 swinger for the +1 there also. That makes the budget even better. I like the looks of your set-up, I have been wanting that combo for awhile, For some reason I like the look and the better choices of bar cuts/'drag bars' per say because im 6'4 lol.

That is one thing I would like to verify.. I always just assumed +2 on a 450r was +2 on a 400ex but I never had a stock 400ex stem around to measure against..

If somebody can measure their 400ex stem I'll compare it agaist my spare stock 450r stem.

I'm 6'3" and have +2 stem/flexx bars which is a really nice and comfortable height for me on the 450r, but the seat position is a bit different compared to the EX. The 450r stem and PT bars is by far the best setup to date on my EX also.

[2001400exrida]

I held these two together a couple years back and from what i could tell the 400ex stem and 450r stem are the same length. the 450r stem has a slightly larger diameter as chronic mentioned.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well i think i have narrowed it down to the American star +2 up1 DOM arms and tie rod set up. Its cost friendly for the fact i just added and have 20mins on their 12mm HD tie rods, That they don't have except stock width.
It has heim joints frame side which is fine, Ill keep them up and have had and have them on my new jeep. But im going with the automotive adjustable outer TRE/ball joint. For the fact i can find a company who makes it or will make me ones that will hold up if these don't.
I really cant afford the brake lines unless the are a must and i can loosen the line to give just enough to get by. Can anyone give their opinion on the SS +2 brake lines? Do i 'need' them for trail/mild mx?

We are going on vacation and when i get back or before next weekend id like to order them, Come back and dedicate a couple days to put everything on, Still have the clutch sitting in package lol. I sold my dunlap mx tires and will run my Baja's most of the time except around town and mx when i throw on the 20/19" gncc's.

I had hopes of racing a small mx series this year, But with everything going on and the fact one i like high speed free riding and two i bought a new off road rig, I need to be healthy and not hurt lol. I will enter a couple hare scrambles or a local race or two.
But for the most part building while i can so all i have to do is
the suspension, 450r stem/swinger and the motor! I have no idea what's in it and im too hard in racing to just throw a unknown condition motor on the line. Cant afford catastrophic failure lol. When i have it built and $$ in hand for a motor, Ill line it up. Plus this winter has kept my weight down, But i haven't had the seat time needed quad or fitness.

But if anyone knows of cheaper arms or used that come complete with tie rods and ends, List them! This is the only item i will put on a CC so i would buy used, But need a company that takes CC's lol. The 'vacation' plays a big part in that, But will most likely paid off as ill be anal on the trip lol.
But so far, ASR DOM auto BJ's full kit less lines is the top contender.

[chronicsmoke]

I haven't got SS brake lines yet, It's on my 'to do' list, but you don't need them. They are nice and take the squishie feeling out of your brakes which is why I want them.. but it's more of a want than a need lol.

I'd ride the ASRs, just keep them lubed and keep an eye on them, I don't think I've ever heard them having the scary 'old style' heim joint seperating issues like the full flights did to me... twice! :eek2: Over all those I think I'd still wait for a good used set.. or JDs seem to be the cheapest new... I also saw the owner of Burguard around FB offering to do custom work for a pretty cheap price..

[2001400exrida]

american star and full flight use the exact same heim. depending on which set of asr's you get some have ball joints for the spindle and some use the heims at the spindle. if you're worried about it seperating like what happens with full flights you might want to take note since you're literally running the same heims.

[chronicsmoke]

How did I know I'd get corrected lmao :rolleyes: That's why I havent been posting here and I know I'm not the only one being run off of this site with the BS.. it really is a shame. The .Org was like that for a while too loll

I used FFs too, Ryan. The updated heims will be fine for him. It was the old style that seperated but I'm sure you have more experience than me. Used 'big' name brand arms or new JDs (cheapest) are what I would do personally, but of course I'm wrong! ;)

[2001400exrida]

not correcting anybody, i just wanted to clarify for the OP that one is not better than the other, they run the exact same style heim. I think they're fine i've always said they're fine for a mid level rider. I see them on all sorts of quads and most the people i talk to are happy. I've seen the horror stories on the forums that they can bust and people go down, but have never seen it in person. For the money though i would still spend the $300 on a good used set of housers.

[KKiowaTJ]

I wish I could hit the houser$ mark. Just a little too much at this time.

Screw even taking a chance if the guts of the heim come apart, There is no warning or tell tale sign they are going IMO, They just 'go'. I figured they would have made a decent set by now, But I hate going over the bars so im not going to be the guy who gets a wild ride.

What are JD's? Just the initials or short for a brand? I haven't herd of them.

Even mild, I few hits in the same certain spot at a decent speed, Its going to come apart and hurt. I know this is not the part to cheap out on, Also don't want death traps if its been known to happen. Trails and hills get tight and its the last thing I need.

[KKiowaTJ]

Found them, Google is the best lol. Not to bad looking arms. They say ill need lines with +2+1's but +2's are fine. I guess ill chance it. That and a lead time, Not digging that too much. But all I would need is wheel bearings and tie rod ends. That or find a machine shop to custom make what I have, 2" wider. Or whatever ill need for +2 +1's.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, Against better judgment, I went with ASR +2 +1 arms with the auto style ball joint instead of heim on the spindle. Only heims are chassis side. Full kit with new tre and rods, arms and the 3 piece speed line of whatever its called. I got all that for the price of just over the JD arms, So I guess ill take that chance. But I keep them clean and up to as much par as possible, They should hold up for a modest rider. Might have a few races, But its not like a 400 will soar like a 450 and or want to take it to that level.
I know what im getting into, So I guess that's a plus, But when they go, No real warning. Ill hope for the best out of the set up and most likely my hard riding is light to others. Im basically going for the wide/low look anyway, Ill see how it pans out. When I get back from vacation, Ill have a chit ton of work to do and prep/dial in.
But I guess its all in what you can afford and chances willing to take.

[400man]

Well, Against better judgment, I went with ASR +2 +1 arms with the auto style ball joint instead of heim on the spindle. Only heims are chassis side. Full kit with new tre and rods, arms and the 3 piece speed line of whatever its called. I got all that for the price of just over the JD arms, So I guess ill take that chance. But I keep them clean and up to as much par as possible, They should hold up for a modest rider. Might have a few races, But its not like a 400 will soar like a 450 and or want to take it to that level.
I know what im getting into, So I guess that's a plus, But when they go, No real warning. Ill hope for the best out of the set up and most likely my hard riding is light to others. Im basically going for the wide/low look anyway, Ill see how it pans out. When I get back from vacation, Ill have a chit ton of work to do and prep/dial in.
But I guess its all in what you can afford and chances willing to take.

you will be fine with those a-arms, trust me. just check em and do maintenance on em when needed. post some pics when you get em!

[chronicsmoke]

you will be fine with those a-arms, trust me. just check em and do maintenance on em when needed. post some pics when you get em!

x2, don't go easy on them either, Ride it like you stole it. They'll hold up just fine :macho

[2001400exrida]

Especially since the heim that usually fails is actually a ball joint on yours. you have nothing to worry about.

[KKiowaTJ]

I cant wait to leave and get back home now! Before I was kinda iffy with a wide rear and stock front with 3/2's. It would have worked, But now the options of wider front vs rear I can spin it around faster for corners. Plus the +1, Will put more power on the rear wheels, Yeah a little front light, But for high speed riding/free riding like I like, It should lay down all of my 30 pony's to the ground lol.
After talking with a few people and what I have so far and style of riding, I was told im not too far off. I have been recommended a gusset kit a couple times now so I think I might heed the warning and get one. Other than that, The 450 shocks should hold up fairly decent until I get them built and motor!

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, All my parts finally showed up and ready to go in and on. Still need to install clutch and get that adjusted and running good before teardown.

Gonna start with the rear axle are and work forward. Reason being, I have the correct wrenches and have done it a million times and all I 'need' to reall do is grease the new axle and swap the sprocket nuts around. Should have gotten new but oh well, If the are work, red Loctite.

Chain and front sprocket, Then to the nerfs. I want new and straight ones if I need a reference point(s). Then to the a arms and front end. I ordered the cheaper kit, But when I mentioned why a machine/fab shop couldn't make me some DOM 2"+/- extended rods, They up graded everything, Even the heim spindle end, But declined. Full lifetime on everything so pretty happy so far with ASR.
I also bought the full SS speed brake lines to be safe so that will be easy and a good time to add new pads I have somewhere. Didn't get clamps for the lines, But ill fab something up that is similar.

Ill take some pic's of when it goes in stockish and comes out with +2/+1's and a tusk/Gforce +4 IIRC axle. Not going to run 'that', But want to get it on and ride able to check it over and then tune it in. Ill most likely run the mx/woods set up in the instructions, But are the same at 4.5. I think im going to go with 4 which is middle of the road for dune/fast trail riding.
Should be a blast to ride after install, Downside is my set up person/father has two bad wrists and has to have more stints added lol. They cant do anything for the one wrist and stints soon. But I can do the clutch alone and the rear, Just need a second person for adjustments. Time for mom and 40lbs of added weight lmao. Either way, Cant wait to get it all on and in a race able condition.

[Stickman400]

Sounds like you're getting ready for the fun part...:D

[KKiowaTJ]

Oh yeah.... The more I waited and stockpiled for the year and held back, The better it will/should be. The only thing stock will be the chassis/motor/stem/plastic and header. Im supposed to get a used swinger, But ive herd that a couple times and still no swinger. The most ill struggle with is the front end getting caster/camber/toe set correct. But I got the time and want it spot on for all the measurements I want to try.
Got it out today and running like a beast, Ready for a car wash and then teardown and parts.

[KKiowaTJ]

Nothing has changed in over a week again. Fuel pump took a chit on the truck so I cant take it this weekend like planned to do it. But here comes the real 'kicker'.

I know how to do the rear axle/chain/sprockets no problem. All my friends offered and said they knew how to. But now when I called them to do it, They said they really didn't know too much and paid to have theirs done :grr:. That's sex stick, Now the general directions mean even more WTF to me lol.

Only one can help and he is in NC right now and wont be home anytime soon, OTR truck driver. I have no idea about spindle camber or anything past installation, Hopefully that! Wheel bearings in the front hubs I can maybe get my pop to do, He used to do that type of work.
But for the vast part growing up, When I had arms, I didn't have to touch it plus young and didn't care to learn.

Now it bit me and im lost! Is there any write ups or how to for aftermarket arms? I tried a search and netted nothing. But im sure there has to be some and if you know any, Please post!
PS, The more dumbed down it is, Less questions ill ask lmao. Thanks

[MtnEX]

Hold up...

What is it you are asking help with?

Front hubs, just remove hub from spindle, knock old bearings out. Push new back in with press or same size socket and tap in.

Chain, usually has a master link you remove and put new on. Sprocket just unbolts.

Now if it is rear axle bearings, bit more of a job but not horrible. Don't wanna explain that one unless it is what you are asking about.

[KKiowaTJ]

Should have been more clear, The rear I can do easy along with the clutch after reading many write ups. The BS I was told, Was how to set up +2+1 a arms, Caster/camber/toe etc. They 'all knew' until I bought and said show me how! Then it was uh, Well.... I had so n so set mine up.

The front wheel bearings should be easy too, But I have never done them on a 400. Not looking at a big problem there. But to get spindle camber and what not set up is something I have never done.

[MtnEX]

OK, so I can help with front end setup.

What arms do you have though because that makes it significantly different and more or less difficult to set up.

[KKiowaTJ]

They are the American star racing +2+1 with auto ball joints and heims chassis side. They came with generic where to start instructions.

[MtnEX]

Gonna just say up front... to me, heims are a pain pain pain. So go ahead and order a supply of patients before starting.

The reason is... the heims serve both as the adjustment for camber and caster and obviously doing both with the hiems, one effects the other. You can very easily set your camber off a concrete floor and a large square. But the camber on the other hand, well you have to get a spec somewhere for the 400 with forward arms.

Then as you adjust the caster to move the upper ball joint forward or back it is going to move the camber a little. So it's going to take some fiddling or some settling for close enough.

All the above is why JD Performance and others use a simple thrust washer shim stack at the chassis side to move the whole upper arm and ball joint forward or back for caster and a thru design on the ball joint for adjustment of camber. Companies like Houser and Teixeira Tech have taken it a step farther and moved all the adjustment to the ball joint. These use a thru design for the ball joint and camber adjustment, but the actual hole is in a offset cam much like the rear carrier for forward or back caster (Houser) or bite teeth lock (Teixeira). All these make it much easier to set up and way easier to try different settings.

Anyways, what are the instructions telling you for a where to start?

[KKiowaTJ]

That's just it, They go on about 'descriptions' of caster and camber more than they do on 'how to install'. Yeah, I know heims are either good/close enough, Never spot on! Im just going to attempt to set it up for a general all around use. They call for 4.5 degrees for mx and cross country, 2-4 for sand and desert. I want to go 4 degrees to split the difference.

Any who, It says prior to installing, Thread rod ends all the way in all the way on the uppers, Leave the front rod alone and back the rear one out 3 full turns. 'This is a good starting point they say'.

Then it says install them and make sure everything is tight. Use straight edge on agains the side edge of the upper and lower BJ threads/front side of bike, Be sure the straight edge is touching the same section of thread on both upper and lower BJ's.

If the top of the straight edge leans towards the rear of quad, You have positive caster! This is what you want. Rest angle finder on straight edge and will tell you exact caster setting. Adjust rod ends in or out to obtain desired caster setting.

No mention of camber except a description unless caster sets it and they didn't include that in the instructions. So do I screw all BJ's and rod's in to start? Do I use the ball joint's to adjust anything?

They really don't help you out after spending the money and expect you to know. Maybe I should know 'more' of what I am doing, But I just want to plug and play per say. But the generic instructions leaves you with here is all your parts, But only tell you to adjust one rod end.

Either its too vague or im reading into it too much and getting stupid on myself, It happens often. I tried to order patients but there is a back order and im SOL lol. But I know this is a PITA so ill keep my intemperate disposition as calm as possible.

[MtnEX]

They may know the camber is going to be pretty close at those settings for caster, as one will affect the other on heims.

I just use a square for camber and run just a little... like 1/4" in off the square at the top sidewall of the tire.

[KKiowaTJ]

Ill most likely just assemble them the way they say and go from there. Worst that can happen is I have to take it all apart and start over.
It went from 80 degrees yesterday to possible chance of snow tomorrow so I hope to get to it at the end of the week. That and truck is down for a bit.
But I guess when im taking it apart, Ill just measure/find degree and write them down from what I have now and have something to go off of for the ball joint/spindle side. Thanks for the help, Ill keep the square handy and try 1/4" first.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, Im finally getting around to fixing her up! The clutch is going in tomorrow and then from there, Ill snow ride until cold as crap and then strip her down.
My clutch held up for being on the last adjustment and having neutral drops when I would fan the clutch like a 2 stroke. Cheap lesson learned thanks to the forum and many O' write-ups and help!

I think im going to crack into the motor as well, Im gonna try for a 2015 run! I don't know where or how many, Class or mx/GNCC, But going to try it at 33/34yrs old. I could not afford a motor and always put the $$ into the suspension, So I dropped from 260ish, Down to 198 even, Im 6'4 BTW.
So if it is stock, Ill be happy as a pig in chit! As it is now, I feel competitive, Just out to have fun. So a HRC XR kit, New valves and dial it in along with it being fresh, Will have enough IMO for what im looking to do and if not at least all Honda parts. This is 'if' I can find said parts to make it happen these days.

But still have a new set of tires and bajas ready to bolt on, A-arms, axle all the way down. Only thing that will be reused is the sprocket bolt/nut(s) I keep forgetting. OEM out, Aftermarket in. That way I have spare parts. Lastly, When I get it together and dialed in, My suspension guy said he knows what I want now, But wants to see my riding style to be spot on. Cant argue with that, Just going with my 450r fronts and stock rear/link with maybe a new spring.

But, Ya Just a heads up on why 6 months and nothing to show for it. But ill get some pic's of stock and from there. Most likely hold off on arms, certain wheel/tire(s) and axle until after winter teardown.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, Today I reassured myself WHY you should do you're own work!
I decided that for $116 out the door, My time and money was worth more and they would have it done in an hour +/-. I took action for the fact, Id end up tearing it apart one night, And whoring up forums on 'how to assemble' cause I didn't follow through and or pics/factory manual I did have or take.

Took in my quad, Full clutch kit, Gasket, Oil and filter. It has/had a brand new OEM clutch cable on it, After install and getting home, The cable is still in the same spot I had it on when a slipping clutch?
So I got the mofo out to test ride it in the middle of work, The ******* wouldn't find neutral to save its life and was either in a gear or out and I actually killed my quad more times in the short time than I have since I joined!
New perch, AOF, and all, And im stuck with a guy saying 'it was adjusted and rode fine'! More less my problem on shotty pro Honda work!
So I had to tell a client I had something I needed to do real quick in my back yard and shouldn't take long. So I told her if she wants to see what happens when **** don't fit my bill, Ill blow the thing up, Nuke it beyond usefulness. I dumped the clutch and went around my house pinned to my mini oval and held it wide F'N open.
In first it looped around so I gave it hell coming out and pinned 2nd. That thing had no intentions of blowing, That lil red ******* was laying down all 28-32hp it had! Point and shoot it was nasty. I was hooking good like it should.

At the arm, It has the normal play/slack 1/4 or so and after a few adjustments on the AOF, I got it to where I 'might' be able to live with it. Now I have never had this in any quad or bike I have ever owned! I have usually always done my own mods and repairs unless machine and case work.

I asked for and was happy to give my old parts back so I could look at them and have the springs in case the hard ones now are too much. They still look good IMO, Ill post a pic soon of them. Not burning at all, Or even a hint of heat displacement. Steels are good looking too? Nothing adds up IMO!
A couple friends and the friend who took me when I had no truck to get it, Said the whole quad is too nice and showroom for the year, The motor/tranny don't have enough hours to be a problem. The guys who did the work when I asked about the basket fingers, Said its either newer, Or that is the OEM clutch and basket. Yeah, People buy and ride a couple hours a year and garage them and keep them spotless like me, But why is my Honda cable already trashed? Nobody I know can answer that! But from the look of the other clutch, Seems good to me.
Reason for change was it was neutral dropping when I would clutch up 3/4th gear along with two stroke cornering. I still fan the clutch, But rarely. The client thought I was going to wad up in the fence or high side, But said it was fun to watch lol.

Sorry for the long rant, But pisses me off when a Honda dealer screws up a simple F'N clutch swap. But if anyone could weigh in, Is this typical of a 400ex with a new HD clutch with springs? No neutral for a bit and no adjustment cable wise/minimal? Cant see a new cable being stretched, But ill post up pic's of the old clutch and cable adjustment case side with both being new. Thanks for any advice

[MtnEX]

Hummm... I missed something somewhere I guess. Kinda lost on the base problem.

Sounds like the clutch that came out of it was looking fine and the one that is in it now has the same issue as before?

I don't quite understand the cable issue. Do you not have the freeplay you want at the lever? Or is the clutch slipping?

Or are you having a trans issue where it's popping out of gear?

[KKiowaTJ]

Sorry, Got lost in a rant lol.

A new clutch cable out of the Honda plastic sleeve is 'supposedly' stretched already. I do have decent slack at the case side, But its set where the old stretched one was. They never took it off the bracket IMO. But, The arm is in position and engages and disengages 'ok'.

The problem I had, Was when trying to fan or clutch up the front in 3/4th gear, It started slipping/high rpm's and slush with no bite. Sometimes it would grab, But I stopped fanning and using it and had no problems.

New clutch, Its either in gear rolling or will die, No real slipping, Just run up the rpms and dump to get going. But when moving, It seems like it has more bite with no clutch and I only tried it a couple times and no tranny/slip problem.

I have never had this problem on any other clutch I have done, Bike or quad. Cable or engage/disengage. Ill try and snap a pic.

[rooster300ex]

Turn the stock lug nuts around for flat. I also use washers

If you turn you lug nuts around, for sure use washers or the lung nuts will gouge in to your brand new shiny rims.

[CJM]

It sounds to me like they didnt assemble the clutch right. Or perhaps they put the wrong oil in. Clutch is a super easy thing to do, its possible they over tightened the pressure plate bolts (literally hand tight is correct), or put the clutch together wrong. Time to take it apart. Maybeif your careful you can reuse the gasket.

[KKiowaTJ]

That's the only thing I can do, Take it apart and reassemble it. I took them everything needed, Honda oil/filter, OEM cover gasket, clutch kit etc. I pushed it in the garage and shut the door I was so disappointed in the lack of skill I thought would be the best course.

Oh well, Cant dwell on it forever, I wanna ride lol. Ill give it another ride/chance today and see if I was in a hurry, Rider error etc when I took it for a spin. Hopefully its like a few friends told me, Just a new, Stiff clutch/springs and old was 'ok', Just not you're 'ok'. I do tend to get anal and perfection at minimum on some things. Ill take it out after bit and see what happens.

I took and cropped pic's, But still to big, So ill try and get something to work then too. Thanks for the help so far

[MtnEX]

Something BE WRONG.

My 400EX will take off from a dead standstill in 1st gear just by letting the clutch lever out slowly. And it is HARD to stall the thing down no matter what I do once riding. It's like a tractor.

As far as the cable and the freeplay slack adjustment I have never paid much attention, but most machines have a mass adjust down at the engine lever and a freeplay adjust up at the bars. Most you just set the freeplay to your PREFERENCE pretty much so long as you don't adjust it to where there is none at all, as that can make it ride on the throwout all the time and also start to slip as the clutch wears in.

The freeplay I like at the lever depends on the bike and how I ride it. A 400 I am not real anal about it and will usually run more freeplay because they are so forgiving... motors have a lot of inertia. 450 I am pretty anal. I run just enough to know I have freeplay because I want it to start into slipping pretty fast as I reach for the old lever, because they are not as forgiving... motors have very little inertia.

[KKiowaTJ]

I'm starting to think its my new OEM cable! Took it out and aside from it being on its last adjustments both places, it still has enoung slack. It hooked up great with a couple psi in the rears and can now lug/lurch around the yard in 1st just letting the lever out.
Overall I'm happy and the clutch bites great. No slipping felt or popping out of gear, just hooking hard IMO. I'll see after a day ride.

[KKiowaTJ]

I got a chance to get over to my suspension guy and talk with him for a bit about what I have and what I want to build. We talked more and we both agreed that what any and all mods are done, Then bring it in for suspension work. That way it can be dialed in on a pro track, Setting ride height and sag etc.

I want a 'all around' set up, High speed free riding/mx/trails and he showed me a few pic's of others. For a triple rated 450r fronts, New springs, Gold valves etc $600-$800. Seemed kinda steep, But he is a 400 guru and hometown support.
He also told me that a link is nothing more than an anodized piece of aluminum and that all my concerns can be addressed with internal valves and arc movement throughout the shock cycle. A spring would also aid in a better rear and all around ride also.
Now, From what I have read on here, The style I ride warrants a mx link. Hes a race tech certified suspension guy with trophy's to prove it. I did ride with him 10+ years ago and if it were not for a paralyzing wreck, He 'might' have been able to qualify with the big boys. He rode both bike and quad, Both netted many pieces of hardware.

So with his highish prices and the fact many others can do the same, Ill hit up a couple other places and check prices. I 'might' take him up on the rear offer just to see if he is right. If not lesson learned! But for now, Hope to get some seat time before its colder than a well diggers ***!

[MtnEX]

I got a chance to get over to my suspension guy and talk with him for a bit about what I have and what I want to build. We talked more and we both agreed that what any and all mods are done, Then bring it in for suspension work. That way it can be dialed in on a pro track, Setting ride height and sag etc.

I want a 'all around' set up, High speed free riding/mx/trails and he showed me a few pic's of others. For a triple rated 450r fronts, New springs, Gold valves etc $600-$800. Seemed kinda steep, But he is a 400 guru and hometown support.
He also told me that a link is nothing more than an anodized piece of aluminum and that all my concerns can be addressed with internal valves and arc movement throughout the shock cycle. A spring would also aid in a better rear and all around ride also.
Now, From what I have read on here, The style I ride warrants a mx link. Hes a race tech certified suspension guy with trophy's to prove it. I did ride with him 10+ years ago and if it were not for a paralyzing wreck, He 'might' have been able to qualify with the big boys. He rode both bike and quad, Both netted many pieces of hardware.

So with his highish prices and the fact many others can do the same, Ill hit up a couple other places and check prices. I 'might' take him up on the rear offer just to see if he is right. If not lesson learned! But for now, Hope to get some seat time before its colder than a well diggers ***!

Gosh, it is hard to beat a good suspension guy close enough you can just ride over there. That's worth a lot.

I would see how he stands behind his work... satisfaction guarantee... etc. If that is good, I would go with it. His prices are in line with others and I don't think many are actually doing gold valves (as they are not cheap).

Anyways, I fear you may be disappointed without a link, especially anywhere off an MX track where you will run 20" tires. So he will have his work cut out for him I believe and you'll want satisfaction....

[KKiowaTJ]

Yeah, Im torn between reading 9/10 happy people with a link and a person who didn't know the difference anyway! Im most likely going to go mx link and go from there, It was part of the original build 'plan'.

Its great to be able to swing by his place or have him come to a mutual friends track and test/tune. He is race tech certified over and over, He also has many people running his suspensions, More bike than quad, But still good results. I recommended him to many friends, Not one was un happy and are return customers.

I don't know, Might give him the benefit of the doubt and say 'try' it. If im not happy, Get the link or have it and put it on and fix it. But, or the time being, Stock R's and rear and add parts. Then make the decision, To most likely build around a mx link! LOL

[450rtt]

its possible they over tightened the pressure plate bolts (literally hand tight is correct), or put the clutch together wrong.

pressure plate bolts stop when they're done, they cannot be over tightened. Once they stop turning, that's it, if you try to turn anymore, snappy snap! The only way to know if you over tightened them is by snapping the bolts. They bottom out and they're done, seen it happen to many times when somebody tries to make them tight and they end up snapping off. hand tight just as you said, but they can't be over tightened because once they are hand tight, they are done turning.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well, After talking to a couple and one more possibly, I think I found the new 'clutch' problem. Last weekend before I roll her, I would shift into gear and it would lunge like a 450r with a jugger spring, Not like a CRF drop in or what my 400 did before.
Took it apart and everything looked fine and re assembled it. Same thing and I was told my pressure plate is shot and its not un common to go through 2-3 per whole basket replace?

Would this account for my new OEM stretched cable and no adjustment? I called the company I bought my AOF/cable/etc and they also said PP and that with the combo im running, Almost positive! I hate hanging parts and I know this time ill need a new gasket, But want to make sure it could be the culprit!
Thanks for any info or pointers

[450rtt]

i'm still trying to figure out how you an over tighten a pressure plate bolt, lol.

I'd say get yourself some oem replacement parts to help find the problem here. if the cable didn't fix it, your springs, clutch, basket, or plate is worn out.

just make sure once the pressure plates are tight, stop turning....can't overtighten them, if you do, they snap.

[KKiowaTJ]

Well I got around to fixing her to my extent and so far so good. I replaced everything from the basket, bearings, sealers, inner out PP, clutch lifter arm, spring and seal! Nothing fixed it!

New cable from another batch. I do have a msr aof perch and lever, but swapped oem and still same. The cable(s) are at their last adjustment! It had a dragging clutch still until I burnt them in a couple times on a ditch/hill.

Pulls hard, runs good and I'm more than happy with performance so far. But talked go guys who are master techs and 400 gurus and they too, are stumped!
Oh well, gonna get some seat time and add my arms, axle and all other new parts as I go. Only thing I need is a set of small play tires. More mx than gncc that I have. But getting back into it and loving it more and more.

[cheater13]

Well I got around to fixing her to my extent and so far so good. I replaced everything from the basket, bearings, sealers, inner out PP, clutch lifter arm, spring and seal! Nothing fixed it!

New cable from another batch. I do have a msr aof perch and lever, but swapped oem and still same. The cable(s) are at their last adjustment! It had a dragging clutch still until I burnt them in a couple times on a ditch/hill.

Pulls hard, runs good and I'm more than happy with performance so far. But talked go guys who are master techs and 400 gurus and they too, are stumped!
Oh well, gonna get some seat time and add my arms, axle and all other new parts as I go. Only thing I need is a set of small play tires. More mx than gncc that I have. But getting back into it and loving it more and more.

Just curious, what's going on with your clutch? Tried scanning this page but I didn't wanna go back and read all the pages. I think you may be having a similar problem like I did when I ran my lockout. Brand new everything. 0 adjustments.

[KKiowaTJ]

Just curious, what's going on with your clutch? Tried scanning this page but I didn't wanna go back and read all the pages. I think you may be having a similar problem like I did when I ran my lockout. Brand new everything. 0 adjustments.

It only has one adjustment really. The cables ends are at very end and lever side a few threads. In all honesty I never looked into the clutch or cable until I was getting neutral drops from fanning the clutch like a two stroke and clutching up in 3/4 gear.
Started getting neutral drops so I parked it until I could put a new clutch in it. Old looked good but swapped it, then all clutch related parts, and still have no adjustability.
Low hour machine that I couldn't have tweaked the gear shaft. Honda techs agreed!

Bad part is, I had to burn them in on a incline so I didn't have a dragging clutch. Every time I'd shift from neutral it would lunge and roll and a PITA and most time just killed it to go back to N. That's when I said F it and went to a hill to burn them in. But when I get a few hours on this, I'll have to buy a new set of friction plates and have X hours until next set of fibers.

Thrown around the idea of finding and trying a cable 1"+/- shorter eye to eye and see what it nets me. It's running strong now, but for how long I don't know and can't think of any parts or any odd quirks other than clutch adjustment that can fix it! We just threw down $600+ into all new clutch parts and same outcome, don't wanna chance a rebuild now.