Wiseco 10:1 or 11:1

[Honda400rider14]

Hey guys would a 416 11:1 be safe to run without upgraded head studs? If it's not safe ill stick with the 10:1 I've never had problems with that ratio.
Thanks!

[KKiowaTJ]

I'd split difference with a 10/1 with a XR400 gasket. Should put you around 10.5:1. Happy medium and run it like that. If you have the extra $$ for the studs, I'd do them for overkill and piece of mind. I dont know, but from past engines it should be ok until high 10's/11+. To each their own, good luck either way.

[Honda400rider14]

Won't I have to find a 87 mm xr400 gasket to work with the 87 mm piston? Or will stock oem 85 mm head gaskets work?

[MtnEX]

I have been wondering the same thing in the back of my head and trying to figure out what the failure factors are being I have never looked into it to see where the failure is occuring and so forth.

Wondering if it is about heat, bore size, a certain compression threshold that is too much for them or what.

[LxMxL97]

Yeah it will be fine but get a JE piston not Wiseco IMO they are junk

[MtnEX]

So 11:1 is fine? Fine in any bore size?

Why do you say Wiseco is junk?

[Honda400rider14]

I'm adding a stage 2 hot cams if it makes any difference. Lol

[KKiowaTJ]

IMO its the JE is more junk than wiseco. They have been making long lasting pistons for quads for a very long time with a slim fail rate compared to JE.

If you adding a hc do the studs and a 11:1 piston to be safe.

That's a good point about the XR400 gasket swap/figment. I plan to do it so I should look into it a little more lol.

[MtnEX]

So is 11:1 where the failures start?
Stock bore?

Just trying to get a handle on this cause don't you have to send out for the studs to be installed? So there is the cost of studs, labor and shipping 2 ways?

[CJM]

I like JE better than wiseco, I used 3 wiseco pistons and wasnt impressed, no failures tho.

Do you have to do the studs? No, but if you jet it to lean the exhaust header will heat up and you will pull the studs out eventually if left that way. Thats why jetting is so important on these machines.

As far as gaskets, you can use stock size. Only time you cant is a 440. Piston never comes close enough otherwise to matter,

[MtnEX]

I tend to like to jet as fat as I can without run issues.

Like ideal example... I like to jet one on a hot muggy summer day and back off one from the bog.
Let's me run the same jetting all year as it does not get that cold here much and when it does I don't ride.
Coldest ride I will ever do is a play in the snow ride... if it snows.


Who has done the studs and what was the cost studs and labor?

[Blodg]

MtnEX, I sent my cylinder to GT Thunder last year and it cost $110 to have the HD studs installed.

To answer your question on what causes the stock studs to fail it is excess heat. Of course heat can be generated in multiple ways - poor jetting, higher compression runs hotter even with proper jetting, and a larger bore (therefore thinner sleeve) also runs hotter even with proper jetting. I did the HD studs on my 11:1 416 to make sure I didn't have problems since I was sending the cylinder out to be bored anyways. A properly jetted 440 with a 13:1 piston is going to run hot and will likely need the studs, the more mild builds may be OK without but I know I didn't want to take a chance on a failure and downtime. Some guys have had failures even with stock engines that ran hot.

[Honda400rider14]

A local gas station sells 112 gas you guys think that would be over kill for this motor build ?

[Blodg]

Yes overkill (and a waste of money) if you are going 10:1 or 11:1 where only 93 octane is needed.

[Honda400rider14]

Ok thanks for answering my dumb question lol. Another local station sells 93 no ethanol ill just continue using that!

[KKiowaTJ]

For $110 or now maybe $125, That's cheap insurance in the long run even on pump gas. Wasted money? I still see people buying 'anti fade' rear axle nuts, I still have the same roll of electrical tape that does the same job and was $25cents.

I just 'wasted' money in all honesty on a set of front wheels that will bend the first time out, DWT A5's. Didn't order them, Ordered black labels, But shipping back and fourth id be money ahead buying another set and using these for conversation pieces or paper weights.

[MtnEX]

Right.

I prefer to waste my money on fuel vs other things, but don't want my motors to exceed pump gas requirements. I put it in my race bike for cheap insurance and soon realized I was having far less issues. A lot of the headaches I had turned out to be pump gas quality issues.

So, as long as I can afford to, I will put 110 in my 400 also. I just don't want it to be where I can't run 93. We now have an ethanol free pump in the area as well.

[LxMxL97]

So 11:1 is fine? Fine in any bore size?

Why do you say Wiseco is junk?

I say that they are junk because I had one explode on me and I've never had any experience with the larger bore sizes my brother had a 426 but I didnt know much about it I really like the old 13:1 406 I ran and I couldn't find one so I did a 416 10.8:1 and I'm very pleased with it my other motors I had the head studs put in but the 416 has the stockers and it does fine

[CJM]

Just cause it exploded doesnt mean it was the pistons fault. Too many factors to count that could cause it.

Just wanted to add about the axle nut, mine dont come off. few drops of red loctite and using an actual axle wrench and nada.

[MtnEX]

I so dread all of that... I have carrier bearings sitting right here for mine and already have it up with the wheels and hubs off. But man do I dread the rest of it... and also the swing arm pivot bolt.

I have been sitting here wondering if soaking that pivot bolt for a while might help me. Like soak good and a while with PB Blaster or whatever it might take.

I bet I don't have a wrench to fit that axle nut even. Did I mention I dread getting into these two things? Lol...

[Stickman400]

I have 11:1 with a 407 and no GT studs and haven't had ay issues with it for the last 2+ years. Of course it's jetted right and in the summer I have a SPAL fan on it to keep it cool, so that may help. I ordered the studs and had them when I was doing the re-build, but didn't want to wait. I still have them on bench, waiting to be installed. I agree with the tape on the lock nuts, other than the fact I've had to cut about 3 of those damn stockers off after they got seized onto the axle. Then I decided to get an anti-fade. Slather some anti-seize on it and snug one nut down and it's good. Then when you need to change the bearings, you can have then entire thing stripped in about 10 minutes or less. You're not hassling with that damn stock nut for an hour that is a pain to get off after a year of riding on it. And I also went Wiseco, haven't had an issue. I always thought CP or Wiseco was the way to go and that JE is a slight downgrade from those 2.