6 or 4 ply rears

[tbrackman84]

Hey guys I am finally ordering new rubber for my 400. Going with the classic Razr 2 fronts and razr rears. I just wnat to get some input on this. Some people have told me that running 6 ply tires lead to carrier bearings getting worn out faster... Is there any truth to this? I'm deciding between getting the 4 ply of 6 ply rear tires. Im not going to be racing or anything, just recreational riding..

[400man]

who ever told you that must of been messin with ya. deffinatly get the 6ply razr's and you will be happy. tires dont wear out carrier bearings lol

[HondaRacing83]

Yeah get 6 ply dude

[MtnEX]

Yeah, no truth to it.

Typically, for the price difference, the 6 ply is worth it if you race or go knarly places and don't run balls. If a big price difference or if running balls it might be worthwhile to consider the 4 ply and the reduced weight, whatever that is.

I currently own all of them and have been pleased with them all. I have Razr 2 fronts 6 ply, Razr fronts 4 ply, Razr rears 6 ply and Razr rears 4 ply. Zero plugs in all 8. I bought the 4 ply ones because I needed them and 6 ply was out of stock... and other places wanted a lot more at the time for the 6 ply that had them in stock. So I gambled on the 4 ply and it has worked out so far.

[KKiowaTJ]

I run 2ply mx6r fronts and 6ply GNCC rears and only have a plug in one rear. But my replacements are 6ply. I can see where a person could see them burning up bearings, Because of the weight difference. But its also like the old realitors sp? were clutch killers, That's because of the they hooked and people fanned the clutch a lot with them and it they ate them up quick.
But I still don't see it causing any problems that would have occurred anyway 4 or 6 ply.

[2001400exrida]

6ply are obviously tougher, but they also will be heavier. I guess in the grand scheme of things is MIGHT maybe have a tiny impact on the axle bearings wearing, but i can't imagine it would be anything substantial.

If you go through some rough stuff, 6 ply is the way to go. 4 ply is fine for the average trail rider, in fact i ran the ohtsu 2 ply stock 400ex tires until they were bald, had 2 plugs in them but if you're not racing seriously it's not a big deal.

[tbrackman84]

sounds good ill go with 6 ply thanks guys

[DragonGunner]

Just my 2 cents, for anything but serious XC racing i'll take 4 ply over 6 ply any day. I have razr 4 ply that are still going strong after 10 years, although they are worn....lol. I have the Razr II in 6 ply and they are a much heavier tire, they are tougher but they rob horse power. Never had a flat yet with the 4 ply. I think the 6 ply with stock rim weighs 28 lbs each. The 4 ply with stock rim weighs 20 lbs. each....my 18" razor MX on headlocks weigh like 13 lbs. each. You can tell a BIG differance between each tire in take off speed.

[CJM]

I very much doubt a razr 2 weighs 28lbs. The stock wheels dont weigh that much and a razr2 is approx 15lbs. 20 inch sizes of course. I will say the heavier tire does rob power, but its worth it if you dont want a flat. 2ply sucks, unless your racing mx there is no reason to even bother, 4ply is ok but sharp objects can get them, 6ply is what I run in desert/dunes and love them. Yea they are heavy but seeing the scars on the sidewalls and tread tell me they are worth every penny. I been rocking razr 2 fronts for close to 4 years now on 2 different quads and not one puncture, also ran kenda klaw 6 ply for 3 years on my 400 and they were tougher than the razr, now have gbc xrex rears on my 450 for 2 seasons no complaints. But yets I can feel they rob a bit of power vs the 4 ply sedona bazookas that were on the 450 when I got it or my itp sand stars.

Course if you got enough power to turn them you really dont notice it to much. My 400 all done up easily spun the kenda klaws, and the 450 makes the gbc's act like paddles and my friends complain ALOT if they ride behind me. Im running a very strange sprocket setup vs most people as well: The 400 had a 15x36 and the 450 has a 14x36 or 35 (I forget I recently swapped it) and lemme tell you what-plenty of torque and I can spin them suckers good!

[DragonGunner]

I very much doubt a razr 2 weighs 28lbs. The stock wheels dont weigh that much and a razr2 is approx 15lbs. 20 inch sizes of course. I will say the heavier tire does rob power, but its worth it if you dont want a flat. 2ply sucks, unless your racing mx there is no reason to even bother, 4ply is ok but sharp objects can get them, 6ply is what I run in desert/dunes and love them. Yea they are heavy but seeing the scars on the sidewalls and tread tell me they are worth every penny. I been rocking razr 2 fronts for close to 4 years now on 2 different quads and not one puncture, also ran kenda klaw 6 ply for 3 years on my 400 and they were tougher than the razr, now have gbc xrex rears on my 450 for 2 seasons no complaints. But yets I can feel they rob a bit of power vs the 4 ply sedona bazookas that were on the 450 when I got it or my itp sand stars.

Course if you got enough power to turn them you really dont notice it to much. My 400 all done up easily spun the kenda klaws, and the 450 makes the gbc's act like paddles and my friends complain ALOT if they ride behind me. Im running a very strange sprocket setup vs most people as well: The 400 had a 15x36 and the 450 has a 14x36 or 35 (I forget I recently swapped it) and lemme tell you what-plenty of torque and I can spin them suckers good!


You are correct...I just weighed the Razr II that are 20" on stock rims and they are 22.8 lbs....they probably were just over 23 lbs before I cut some of the side tread off to corner alot better....The other tires are on the quads so I might have to weigh them later.....was going from memory from when I first got them.
I know when I dragged my nephews Banshee with the Razr II, it seemed much slower, put the 4 ply Razr back on an was much better.....even though I still got beat...LOL.

[CJM]

Yea I can easily say I have better power with the lighter tires but at the cost of traction. I dont mind it tho, but you sure do notice it. My friend has a built 60+hp 08 450r and was using holeshot HD (even heavier I think than razr2) and he switched to itp gncc and told me he could immediately feel the difference.

[KKiowaTJ]

I took a couple pic's of 20" GNCC rears that I did groove on a stock oem 400 wheel and got 16lbs both ways I weighed it. They are actually 19" tires, But thick and 6ply none the less.

[Blodg]

I am planning on buying tires soon and I know I want 6 ply for my type of riding but I am evaluating the weight differences as discussed above. I am happy with my current 20" rear tire setup for fast trail riding. But I am going to buy some 22" rears for hill climbing at Wellsville with insanely big hills where it is very rocky and rutted. I was there a few weeks ago and there were a few hills that took me a couple tries to get up. My 20" tires started spinning and I thought it was a lack of traction but each time my swingarm was bottomed out on a rock or rut. I was able to make it up on the 2nd run but I know 22" tires is the better way to go.

The hill climbing veterans I was riding with all run 22" pro-wedge drag racing tires. They say the straight line traction is unbeatable with a knobby but I don't want those being they are only 2 ply and those guys are constantly plugging their tires. So I have narrowed it down to 22" Razr or 22" XC Master (Razr2 copy). The Razr2 I believe gets more traction but they weigh almost 4 lbs more per tire! Even if less traction the regular Razr is known to be a good tire and since I am on a 416 I think the lighter weight may be better? I have been scouring the web looking up prices and specs and here is a summary of tires I was interested in.

Sorted by listed weight for 6 ply tires:

22" Tires - Weight
Razr 22x11-9 - 15.9
Holeshot XCT 22x11-9 - 18.5
XC Master 22x11-9 - 19.3
Razr2 22x11-9 - 19.8
Kenda Bear Claw 22x12-9 - 22.3 (mud tire just for comparison)


20" Tires - Weight
Razr 20x11-9 - 15.2
Holeshot GNCC 21x11-9 - 15.5
Holeshot XCR 20x11-9 - 16.5
Holeshot XC 20x11-9 - 16.7
Razr Balance 20x11-R9 radial 16.8
Kenda Kutter XC 20x11-9 - 17.5
XC Master 20x11-9 - 17.7
Razr2 20x11-9 - 18.2
Holeshot HD 20x11-9 - 19.5
Razr XC 20x11-9 - ?

Does anyone have any thoughts on a 22" Razr2 or XC Master at 19 or 20 lbs each versus a 22" Razr at 16 lbs for a 416EX? I am about the same power as the lightly modified 450's I ride with. If I had a modded 450 or modded 250R then I would go with the heavier tire.

Dragongunner, can you post a picture of how you grooved or modified the Razr2's? I guess another thought would be to go with the Razr2 or XC Master and cutting off some of the knobs would lighten it up a little and it might perform better. But keep in mind these tires will be used only when I go hill climbing so I don't really care of they slide that well. My 20" tires on the other hand, need to slide well and be predictable when sliding because taking corners fast is a big part of my riding everywhere except hill climbing at Wellsville.

[KKiowaTJ]

The look of 400man's XC grooved/factory grooved tires look promising so I tried to copy it.

[MtnEX]

The HD's are the heaviest 6 ply tire made.

About 19 lbs.

For me, they are worth the weight for what they are about... which is don't strand me with a flat, and if I loose air it is no worse than riding stock radials because the carcass is so stiff.

[Stickman400]

I've always loved my Razr2s. Back in the day my friend bought a set of HDs for his 400 with a slip-on and it had about the same power as my bone stock 400 with stock tires after that. They were heavy as ****. Then I got Razr 2s and we were about equal, but my motor was still stock except for a K&N. I didn't think they were only a pound different, felt a lot more when I had them in each arm. Maybe his were 22s and mine were 20s, I can't even remember now. They were definitely nice if you got a flat though, like MtnEX said, you didn't even notice until you looked at the tire.

[DragonGunner]

I am planning on buying tires soon and I know I want 6 ply for my type of riding but I am evaluating the weight differences as discussed above. I am happy with my current 20" rear tire setup for fast trail riding. But I am going to buy some 22" rears for hill climbing at Wellsville with insanely big hills where it is very rocky and rutted. I was there a few weeks ago and there were a few hills that took me a couple tries to get up. My 20" tires started spinning and I thought it was a lack of traction but each time my swingarm was bottomed out on a rock or rut. I was able to make it up on the 2nd run but I know 22" tires is the better way to go.

The hill climbing veterans I was riding with all run 22" pro-wedge drag racing tires. They say the straight line traction is unbeatable with a knobby but I don't want those being they are only 2 ply and those guys are constantly plugging their tires. So I have narrowed it down to 22" Razr or 22" XC Master (Razr2 copy). The Razr2 I believe gets more traction but they weigh almost 4 lbs more per tire! Even if less traction the regular Razr is known to be a good tire and since I am on a 416 I think the lighter weight may be better? I have been scouring the web looking up prices and specs and here is a summary of tires I was interested in.

Sorted by listed weight for 6 ply tires:

22" Tires - Weight
Razr 22x11-9 - 15.9
Holeshot XCT 22x11-9 - 18.5
XC Master 22x11-9 - 19.3
Razr2 22x11-9 - 19.8
Kenda Bear Claw 22x12-9 - 22.3 (mud tire just for comparison)


20" Tires - Weight
Razr 20x11-9 - 15.2
Holeshot GNCC 21x11-9 - 15.5
Holeshot XCR 20x11-9 - 16.5
Holeshot XC 20x11-9 - 16.7
Razr Balance 20x11-R9 radial 16.8
Kenda Kutter XC 20x11-9 - 17.5
XC Master 20x11-9 - 17.7
Razr2 20x11-9 - 18.2
Holeshot HD 20x11-9 - 19.5
Razr XC 20x11-9 - ?

Does anyone have any thoughts on a 22" Razr2 or XC Master at 19 or 20 lbs each versus a 22" Razr at 16 lbs for a 416EX? I am about the same power as the lightly modified 450's I ride with. If I had a modded 450 or modded 250R then I would go with the heavier tire.

Dragongunner, can you post a picture of how you grooved or modified the Razr2's? I guess another thought would be to go with the Razr2 or XC Master and cutting off some of the knobs would lighten it up a little and it might perform better. But keep in mind these tires will be used only when I go hill climbing so I don't really care of they slide that well. My 20" tires on the other hand, need to slide well and be predictable when sliding because taking corners fast is a big part of my riding everywhere except hill climbing at Wellsville.


Took a razor blade to every other knob that sticks out....if you have the tires you will know which ones....did this to the outside and inside of each tire....now it doesn't catch and want to throw you of as easy.....

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz219/61chalk/dc/DSC00862_zpsf2fda061.jpg (http://s829.photobucket.com/user/61chalk/media/dc/DSC00862_zpsf2fda061.jpg.html)

[Blodg]

Dragon, that is exactly what I was thinking of doing. The knobs sticking out over the edge of the tire definitely look like they would catch when sliding (and no other sport tires seem to have that feature). Thanks a lot for taking the time to take a pic and share...

[MtnEX]

I have seen guys cut that knob clean off also.