New class next year , wich atv???

[FreddyB_97]

Next summer my boy is changing class. I want to hear your advices on wich atv i should get...

Jérémy will have 9 years old
He raced MX

This is the rule i have to follow for the class he will race : 90cc 2 stroke or 110cc 4 stroke , both have to be free air , the engine have to come from an atv ( no dirtbike engine ) , tranny have to be automatic or semi automatic ( no clutch ).

I can do what i want with the chassis and the suspension.

Many kids here ride DRR or Apex , is this the best choice i can make???

I have a DS 90 X 2010 that was our last year atv , should i mod this one or i'm better to switch to another atv???

Thank's for your advice

[wickestangwv]

DS 90x is not worth your time IMO. Can you run a Single Speed Cobra? If not I have Apex but I would get a DRR just due to the ease of buying suspension parts for.

[Logan #34's Dad]

From what your allowed to ride, IF you wish to compete, you'll need an Apex or DRR. Do yourself a favor and buy a good quality used one right off of here. The money it takes to build a CVT is far more than you'd ever think it would be.
As mentioned above, the Cobra would be a good choice as well IF it'd be allowed. A cobra is much lighter and far better handling than the DRR or Apex.
What does "have to be free air" mean? Does that mean no liquid cooled?

As far as your DS90X....that is your new pitbike.... No matter how much money you throw at that motor...it will not ever touch these 90cc 2stroke especially at only 110cc.

[FreddyB_97]

That's right no liquid cooled engine.

If i buy a DRR or an Apex with a built liquid cooled engine can i make it air cooled??? Is it easy to do or the built motor will not take the heat???

And i only see 50cc Cobra with an auto tranny , is it right???

Thanks for the help

[Logan #34's Dad]

The air cooled motor and liquid cooled motor are basically the same...you'll just have to pull the liquid cooled jug and replace it with an air cooled jug. Also replace the liquid cooled side cover with an air cooled set up...
Personally, I would petition the governing body about changing that rule.... DRR and Apex come as liquid cooled from the factory... I don't know if you can even buy an air cooled version anymore.
There are probably people on here that still have ported air cooled cylinders laying around but they are gonna get harder n harder to find.

[stevo7706]

Forget about air cooled, liquid cooled, production frame, modified, stock, suspension ,nitrous oxide, turbos, etc...Just show up with a Cobra shifter and race. He'll be on that bike for 3 or 4 yrs and YOU and him will have FUN!

[lon]

I wish you could race 70cc. I have an a/c that I think you would like.

[stevo7706]

Why are air cooled engines even mentioned or WORSE required for competition in this sport? No kid would show up with a vintage dirtbike to an MX race! To convert a water cooled engine to air in order to race is crazy. Why can't the engines/classes more closely follow dirtbike engine/classes? Seems logical. No dirtbike engines..ATV engines only...huh??? No wonder people get fustrated

[lon]

Imagine how many more kids would be racing mini quads if the quads were comparable to dirt bikes in stock form. IMHO most parents shy away from mini quad racing once they find out just how much its gonna cost them to build a competitive machine.

[stevo7706]

You're absolutely right, and I can imagine. For starters I would CHUNK the CVTs out of minis except for he little kids(50cc). Then you have proven,reliable, and inexpensive engines to align with dirtbike classes. In essence aligning with the manufacturers of the engines (Yamaha,Honda,etc) to one day open the door to produce factory competitive mini quads.....Just Imagine

[lon]

You're absolutely right, and I can imagine. For starters I would CHUNK the CVTs out of minis except for he little kids(50cc). Then you have proven,reliable, and inexpensive engines to align with dirtbike classes. In essence aligning with the manufacturers of the engines (Yamaha,Honda,etc) to one day open the door to produce factory competitive mini quads.....Just Imagine

Wouldn't that be awesome but sadly enough it will most likely never happen,to many stupid regulations.

[Logan #34's Dad]

You're absolutely right, and I can imagine. For starters I would CHUNK the CVTs out of minis except for he little kids(50cc). Then you have proven,reliable, and inexpensive engines to align with dirtbike classes. In essence aligning with the manufacturers of the engines (Yamaha,Honda,etc) to one day open the door to produce factory competitive mini quads.....Just Imagine

WE are living in a fantasy world... We can't even get the BIG factories to build full sized "racing" atv's. Honda has basically not changed it's 450 since 2004, Suzuki quit all together, KTM - who knows, CanAm tried to enter the big leagues in a big way - then deceided to take their show to GNCC - has not changed it's machine since 2008, Kawasaki has all but given up, Yamaha is basically the same as it has been - Although they are at least trying to move forward with the new clutch stuff.
Gentleman, this atv racing scene is in BIG trouble...starting at the grass roots local level.

[lon]

I agree . I also think all racing at the local level is hurting.We race both bikes and quads and its depressing lining up with five different classes and still only racing against nine people.
WE are living in a fantasy world... We can't even get the BIG factories to build full sized "racing" atv's. Honda has basically not changed it's 450 since 2004, Suzuki quit all together, KTM - who knows, CanAm tried to enter the big leagues in a big way - then deceided to take their show to GNCC - has not changed it's machine since 2008, Kawasaki has all but given up, Yamaha is basically the same as it has been - Although they are at least trying to move forward with the new clutch stuff.
Gentleman, this atv racing scene is in BIG trouble...starting at the grass roots local level.

[lon]

Sorry FreddyB_97,I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Good luck with whatever you get.

[stevo7706]

Well heck, if that's not depressing. My fantasy is over! We'll hang on to this sport a little longer, maybe to the bitter end. It can still be alot of fun. Best decision I made was to get out of CVTs and into a shifter. My advice would be to do it as soon as you can. It increased the fun factor. That's one of the reasons we're still here.

[FreddyB_97]

No problem lon!!! It's always fun to discuss and hear what the other people have to say...

I have talked to the person in charge of the rule in our racing association and i have two choices for my kid. He can make another year in the ''ministock'' class with is DS so i don't have to spend a pile of cash to buy and built another atv and i know he will race for the podium every race...or i sell the DS and buy a race ready DRR 90 to run in the ''minimod'' class.

[josborn]

WE are living in a fantasy world... We can't even get the BIG factories to build full sized "racing" atv's. Honda has basically not changed it's 450 since 2004, Suzuki quit all together, KTM - who knows, CanAm tried to enter the big leagues in a big way - then deceided to take their show to GNCC - has not changed it's machine since 2008, Kawasaki has all but given up, Yamaha is basically the same as it has been - Although they are at least trying to move forward with the new clutch stuff.
Gentleman, this atv racing scene is in BIG trouble...starting at the grass roots local level.

Rocky - I don't think it is in trouble. It survived the 250R era. Try racing a quad that they quit making nine years ago. I was in that boat in 1998. I think it will continue on, I think the peak in 2007-2008 definitely spoiled a lot of people. I remember when you had about three quads to choose from to race (full size) back in the day, and all of them weren't being made at the factory, no factory involvement at all period. What kept it alive? the aftermarket companies and tons of families that loved to race. They didn't care what they were getting out of it monetarily, or what deal they could get. Hopefully it gets back to fun, and less about whoa is me, its dying. My point is that it is nowhere near bottom. People got stoked when the 400ex came out, they were desperate to race anything new! I remember when Daniel Boone thought they were on the map for having a 400 rider turnout for an ATV National. Locally, I think its about the same as its been for the last ten years. Its been up and down a little bit, but I don't think it has changed a drastically.

Now I definitely agree it has been on the slide the last 5 years, but i dont think its just going to up and fail. Now if the aftermarket companies fold.....were hosed.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Yeah, I hate being that negative Nellie BUT, I keep hearing about all these tracks that keep outlawing quads. One of the Florida tracks just did it..(Waldo). Thank goodness I live in an area with a strong atv following... If all the National riders from here would stay home...we'd have a HUGE turnout at every race. And we would have a GREAT time and spend a lot less money... I wish we could afford to do both Nationals and OMA...

[josborn]

Yeah, I hate being that negative Nellie BUT, I keep hearing about all these tracks that keep outlawing quads. One of the Florida tracks just did it..(Waldo). Thank goodness I live in an area with a strong atv following... If all the National riders from here would stay home...we'd have a HUGE turnout at every race. And we would have a GREAT time and spend a lot less money... I wish we could afford to do both Nationals and OMA...

That's the catch 22, most people can't do both, especially when the off weekends are valuable training time. I think if the majority of atv racers stayed in it longer than 5 years, then our sport would be huge. I know there are lots of people who have raced way longer than 5, and even 10 years. However, I have seen tons of people jump into the sport have success at the C level, then B level, move to A do pretty good, then falter in Pro-Am, hang there for a year or two, then turn Pro, because they feel like that's what they're supposed to do, then the next thing you know they are gone because they can't make living at racing. That's one example, not everyone even make its to that level, they might go to the A class, then it's the same deal. They get burnt out, tired, disgruntled about how much they are spending. I wish I could figure out a way that we could keep the fun factor up. That's what is missing, we need to have fun!

[Logan #34's Dad]

Well, YOU have a grand opportunity to make your event "fun". I don't have the answers but...some type of entertainment for the folks would be awesome. Couple years ago, I took Logan to Pine Lake for the TT race. They simply had a D.J. and they had a meal for everyone (can't remember if they charged us or not (donation)) AND they had two kegs of FREE beer! All that is not that big of an expense AND it was just nice. IF you put up a donation jar...I'm sure you'd get every penny back plus.. Especially IF your same cook makes the food as always!
A DJ set up in your infield would be awesome.
Something else that would be cool... contact these carnival ride people and see if they could set up somewhere...the kids would love it!
AND pray for good weather!...

[josborn]

Well, YOU have a grand opportunity to make your event "fun". I don't have the answers but...some type of entertainment for the folks would be awesome. Couple years ago, I took Logan to Pine Lake for the TT race. They simply had a D.J. and they had a meal for everyone (can't remember if they charged us or not (donation)) AND they had two kegs of FREE beer! All that is not that big of an expense AND it was just nice. IF you put up a donation jar...I'm sure you'd get every penny back plus.. Especially IF your same cook makes the food as always!
A DJ set up in your infield would be awesome.
Something else that would be cool... contact these carnival ride people and see if they could set up somewhere...the kids would love it!
AND pray for good weather!...

Well the 65 designs pit party will be on Saturday night. I have thought a lot about bringing in the carnies to an event not just for this event, but for many events. Give the people something to do between motos, heck a huge video game tent would be awesome. Now that the OMA banquet is nearly over, now it's time to start putting the rest on paper.

[stevo7706]

Last weekend was the start of our MX winter series at Freeestone raceway in Texas. Over 850 riders with the majority being minis. One of the differences I see (besides clutch levers!) is there are not many new minis showing up at quad races. I can count on one hand in the 4 yrs with quads the number of new minis,and on the other hand the number who have left.
Since this is a youth driven sport it seems paramount we attract and retain the parents of these kids. Events like the PRO Challenge show there are dedicated and talented people making ATV events FUN ( kegs of beer would have caused a riot!). That being said,(and I believe there are solutions) something is broken. I would start with the minis.....what a mess.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Last weekend was the start of our MX winter series at Freeestone raceway in Texas. Over 850 riders with the majority being minis. One of the differences I see (besides clutch levers!) is there are not many new minis showing up at quad races. I can count on one hand in the 4 yrs with quads the number of new minis,and on the other hand the number who have left.
Since this is a youth driven sport it seems paramount we attract and retain the parents of these kids. Events like the PRO Challenge show there are dedicated and talented people making ATV events FUN ( kegs of beer would have caused a riot!). That being said,(and I believe there are solutions) something is broken. I would start with the minis.....what a mess.

As I previously posted... It's because SO many tracks around the country are not allowing quads anymore. What parent is going to go out and buy a quad and not be welcome.
Also, the cost to build a "race ready" atv is FAR more expensive. When a Dad shows up and his child has to race against one of the high dollar custom mini's..it's pretty discouraging.
In my area we have a very big quad following and some of our track owners are being told that if quads show up WE bikers won't. And there are far more bikes than quads so some owners buckle. The sad part is, I've been to many, many practice sessions and races where both are there and everything is good. A smart track owners know how to work the track to keep everyone happy...

[stevo7706]

Here's an idea to have a BIG quad following around the country. Pay Travis Pastrana to do a double quad backflip on national T.V. X Games! Everything he touches is golden, a marketing POWERHOUSE..... I know I'm dreaming again.....

[Logan #34's Dad]

Something I've wondered..... Can places like Unadilla, Sunday Creek(John Penton), Loretta Lynn, Aonia Pass, handle a National MX race AND a National GNCC all in the same weekend? With ALL the spectators the GNCC pulls in...that could expose all those people to the motocross side... Even if its a Pro Only round for MX...
Also, if there is a local series around the area that the National MX event is being held, put the National race as one of that series points events (understanding that they get scored separately for the series AND also for the National itself)

[LT80]

Here's an idea to have a BIG quad following around the country. Pay Travis Pastrana to do a double quad backflip on national T.V. X Games! Everything he touches is golden, a marketing POWERHOUSE..... I know I'm dreaming again.....
Maybe he would do the backflip on a LT80 "again". :D