Shock compressed/extended lengths needed

[MtnEX]

Hey guys... have any of you ever collected measurements and filled out a data sheet for your shock builder?
Surely many have?

Here is what I need to know.

What is the extended and compressed length setup for the GT Thunder XC link?

And up front what is the extended and compressed lengths you came up with (non-long travel) ~ state tire size also please.


I just need to figure out what the ideal extended and compressed lengths are for this linkage and for standard travel or stock arms. I know 'correct' and stock are often two entirely different things as often OEM does not utilize the available up/down travel.

[chronicsmoke]

Laz or Jet or any builder should have them if you call.

I can't help you on the XC link specs but somebody on here should be able to..

if you need the fronts I'll get the measurements when I put my elka shock and link on it. I got all the specs for the rear but never bothered with the fronts, lol

[MtnEX]

Dang, I am surprised no one has ever done the measurements for a shock build sheet to know and remember this stuff as it is pretty key to having suspension that works well.

[MtnEX]

Well, this ain't exactly useful information. But despite having my rear end on a block I did manage to get my front end up, remove a shock and check the ball joint limits.

I was sorta disappointed... Up travel looked good. I couldn't get it down on a 2x4 to check what it actually needs to be though. Down travel is short of what I was hoping for though.

Ball joint bind... totally stock

11 3/4"
16 3/4"

Can't use the whole 5" of course.


For me, this really sucks! I was hoping proper up travel would need around 12" compressed and that there was un-tapped down travel. I was wanting to use a 17" - 17.25" front shock. Won't even fit, lol.

[ben300]

Well, this ain't exactly useful information. But despite having my rear end on a block I did manage to get my front end up, remove a shock and check the ball joint limits.

I was sorta disappointed... Up travel looked good. I couldn't get it down on a 2x4 to check what it actually needs to be though. Down travel is short of what I was hoping for though.

Ball joint bind... totally stock

11 3/4"
16 3/4"

Can't use the whole 5" of course.


For me, this really sucks! I was hoping proper up travel would need around 12" compressed and that there was un-tapped down travel. I was wanting to use a 17" - 17.25" front shock. Won't even fit, lol.


are you gonna run stock arms or after market?

i know the new Teixeira Tech long travel XC a-arms for the 400 use teh shortest lont travel shock set up of any out there. mgiht wnat to look into it.

[MtnEX]

Well I was going to run stock a bit. Had been considering FOX and HLS which both were 17" and a set of Elka's that were 17.25".

Teixiera arms are super nice. They are indeed long travel. They use 18.25" extended 13" compressed.

[ben300]

Well I was going to run stock a bit. Had been considering FOX and HLS which both were 17" and a set of Elka's that were 17.25".

Teixiera arms are super nice. They are indeed long travel. They use 18.25" extended 13" compressed.



i tried a set of HLS elites out for a short bit (road them practice one weekend) off my buddies 08 450et, set up for a 200# agressive B rider. i liked them a lot. the ride hegiht was set up so they matched perfect to my Jet 450 fronts. he complained of body roll and that they were too stiff (he previously before gettign the trx was riding a built LTR that he got of a 150# kid that raced A class with it. he's 210#. so hes used to super soft). i didnt think they were bad. peforemed well. i just hate the lack of adjustability on them.

the prelead can not be chaned unless you have the tools to compress the shock springs. there the collar kind, not the threaded preload. then you have no rebound control without sending back to laz, and you have compression adjustment, but he says not to touch it from what he sets it at. and if you adjust the compression and something in the shock messes up, he wont warranty it. F that. all in all, great performing shock, great price, just dont like the lack of adjustability.

Coryatver runs them. he's way faster than me. he may say differently

[MtnEX]

To me, these two choices are pretty much polar opposites... lol.

On the one hand I would like my stuff to work like a dream and never have to touch it remove and ship for service... lol.

But on the other opposite, I have the ultra adjustable floats now and they still need to go back in for an internal tweak I think. If I couldn't adjust anything it would have been pretty brutal, lol.

So I think to a degree they both make you fall in love with an idea... just on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Blodg]

I have the standard travel HLS on my 250R hybrid with +2 arms and had them setup for me and they work great without ever having to touch them. I dont race anymore but ride at a race pace just not for 2 hours LOL. I guess their could be a reason to want to adjust them depending on track conditions but the vast majority of amatuer riders will not go any faster with minor suspension tweaks and are better off not messing with them.

[ben300]

I have the standard travel HLS on my 250R hybrid with +2 arms and had them setup for me and they work great without ever having to touch them. I dont race anymore but ride at a race pace just not for 2 hours LOL. I guess their could be a reason to want to adjust them depending on track conditions but the vast majority of amatuer riders will not go any faster with minor suspension tweaks and are better off not messing with them.

agree'dl, and i dotn think they're a bad shock. they rode good. made me realize i might need a spring change on my shocks. however, when you go from a super rocky track like lets say the mountaineer GNCC in masontown, WV or the snow shoe GNCC to some kind of flatter, less rocky, more muddy track, or to like the sandy florida gncc, it would be nice to be able to adjsut your compression, preload, and rebound.


i did mess with the compression on them a little and there was a noticable change in the comression when i was adjusting them.

[400man]

So.......when you say to take the shocks off and let the frame rest on 2x4's, which way do you lay the board? with the 4" part up, or flat?

might try this for the hell of it if I get bored at the shop one day and have time. how would you check the rear, just remove the shock and lower until it hits the subframe/airbox/brake caliper?

[400man]

So.......when you say to take the shocks off and let the frame rest on 2x4's, which way do you lay the board? with the 4" part up, or flat?

might try this for the hell of it if I get bored at the shop one day and have time. how would you check the rear, just remove the shock and lower until it hits the subframe/airbox/brake caliper?

[MtnEX]

Yes, you get the shocks off and set her with the tires touching and the frame 12" off the floor (if ball joints don't bind before)

And then you can either sit all the tires on nice 10.5" tall blocks or drop the quad down to the floor on a 2x4 on it's side (which is 1.5" thick).

What they shoot for is getting 10.5" of wheel travel out of your setup (if possible) starting with the frame 1.5" off the ground in full compression with your size tires, and the linkage and arms you are running.

[Stickman400]

My rebuild thread should help quite a bit for the measuring procedure. I took lots of pictures and had quite a few guys helping me out bouncing ideas off of them. Just start reading/looking on page 1 or 2, I started messing with that immediately to get it out of the way: http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?479068-Winter-Rebuild&highlight=winter+rebuild

[400man]

My rebuild thread should help quite a bit for the measuring procedure. I took lots of pictures and had quite a few guys helping me out bouncing ideas off of them. Just start reading/looking on page 1 or 2, I started messing with that immediately to get it out of the way: http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?479068-Winter-Rebuild&highlight=winter+rebuild

wow, that helped a bunch! thanks bud. that's crazy looking to see it setting a inch an a half off the floor with the tires on.

[chronicsmoke]

x2

stickman's thread is awesome for seeing what has to be done to run the XC link on a 400.

[MtnEX]

Skimmed it... it ain't looking pretty... lol.

Gonna go read it tonight when the kids are asleep

[MtnEX]

wow, that helped a bunch! thanks bud. that's crazy looking to see it setting a inch an a half off the floor with the tires on.

Yep... that is what it is all about there... down on 2x4's and up on 12" with the size tires you will be running.

[MtnEX]

OK, on stock arms Stickman got 10 7/8" at ball joint bind I assume... as I doubt his frame would sit down on a 2x4 with 23" front tires and stock arms?

I am kind of confused though because I posted an 11 3/4" compressed length with mine lifting the tire until bind. I have 22's on there and they nearly hit the fenders. I bet I screwed the pooch measuring while holding the dang tire up to arm bind point. I had to measure from the 1 and not subtract. Makes me want to go out there right now. Tomorrow!

Anyways, if it is 10 7/8" guys... I can tell you as a KFX owner, KFX shocks may be better than stock, but they won't never allow this quad to work like it should. I don't know the stock spec but know my aftermarket shocks are 12" compressed. Stock shocks are likely 12" or greater compressed. That would be giving up way too much uptravel. I haven't measured the motion ratio but if it is 2:1 you're talking an uptravel loss of 2". In my mind, uptravel matters big for XC.

[Stickman400]

Yea, those were 23 fronts on at the time I did that. I later installed 21s on the front after I did all of the major rebuild. I think I mentioned what you are referring to somewhere in there, because I was worried about that also, how it was binding at the ball joint and not completely sitting in the 2x4 on the front. It all got worked out after I rebuilt my shocks and installed the Houser arms though. I ended up with a 3:1 leverage ratio according to Dustin, which is really good, I guess. I don't even want to try and fully understand suspension in depth. I got the 'just of it and that is good enough for me all the time.

[MtnEX]

I still ain't got my butt back out there and rechecked myself to see if I screwed up and forgot I was measuring from the 1 while doing all that myself.

So, either I did, or Houser arms have improved ball joint angles... or mine are stiff or something.

Gosh, if compressed length is really that short... heck I will have to fold and use aftermarket or 450R shocks modified by GT Thunder/Jet/Derisi I guess. KFX450R shocks will be an inch too long compressed.

[chronicsmoke]

I still ain't got my butt back out there and rechecked myself to see if I screwed up and forgot I was measuring from the 1 while doing all that myself.

So, either I did, or Houser arms have improved ball joint angles... or mine are stiff or something.

Gosh, if compressed length is really that short... heck I will have to fold and use aftermarket or 450R shocks modified by GT Thunder/Jet/Derisi I guess. KFX450R shocks will be an inch too long compressed.

That's good to know! Shows you that just because they fit, doesn't mean they're correct. Being 1" too long on the compressed length I believe you loose 2" of wheel travel (based on a 2:1 ratio) but I'm not sure how that would translate into frame height.

[MtnEX]

Yeah I gotta double check it.

If they are 1" too long compressed I still ain't knocking them for an upgrade to stock logos. A lot of people have swapped them and none are unhappy. Just might not be the best choice for hard XC racing.

Like I say though... gotta retake those measurements.

[chronicsmoke]

haha ya ANYTHING is better than stock!

[MtnEX]

I went back and remeasured. I did make a mistake. My ball joints bind at a little under 11".... basically minimum shock length is 11" on my stock stuff.

It is up on blocks so take this with a grain of salt but I laid a straight edge on the skid out at an angle forward engine area to tire. It looked like that would put her mighty close to the ground. They may not use all that up travel when building shocks. Especially with 21" fronts. Too bad we don't have anyone that has done the 2x4 method to know for sure.

Lol my 22" fronts almost hit my fenders. If bottomed riding they would for sure hit lol. KFX shocks might be more ok than I thought lol.

[chronicsmoke]

I have cut fullbores right now so I didn't have any issues with 20's or 21's hitting fenders lol

How bad are they hitting? Enough to break them off? If they just kiss they they should be fine.. they'll only bottom for an instance on huge hits. If there is enough contact you may have to run 21's lol..