400ex front a-arms

[darnizzle8805]

I have a 1999 400ex, my left upper arm has play in one of the pivot bushings. I eventually plan to go to wider aftermarket arms. But for the time being, which bushing kit should I go with?

There are bronze bushing kits, delrin bushing kits, and polyurethane bushing kits. This ATV is a pleasure vehicle, I do not race in any organization. I play in fields, a friends private home made track, and on a private asphalt paved road.

Also which brand of arms should I go with? As I stated this is not a professional ATV so any arms over $4-500 is definitely out of question.

All help is appreciated, thank you all in advance.

[LxMxL97]

I think the only a arms that fit your price range are full flight

[CJM]

Your gonna wind up with cheapo american stars or full flights, they are ok but the heim joints they use wear out very easily. Spend the money on quality stuff or even quality used stuff.

[darnizzle8805]

I know I don't want 12pt adjustable arms. I would settle for upper heims and upper adjustable ball joints. I would also like just go wider not +1 as I feel as it would push more into the corners. If looking for good quality used arms, what brands tend to be the best. I only know of leagers, and housers.

[CJM]

houser, jb, laegers, gibson, etc.

American star, burgurd, and full flight will leave you disappointed. Trust me when I say this; Buy once and cry once. You will be happy later.

[darnizzle8805]

I thought Burgards were a good brand. OK, I'll research more. But I still wish to repair my current stock arms until I figure out which arms to go with. So which bushings would be best for my stock arms? I'm thinking polyurethane as that is what ive installed on quite a few Honda cars, including at least 2 of my own.

[chronicsmoke]

Burgurds quality is alright, I wouldn't say they are as good as say Walsh, Six5, Tex Tech, JB ect..

My buddy had a LT burguard setup on his YFZr that were pretty solid and I have some on my 400 which I found for a steal on here a few years back.. Trying to get ahold of them for customer service issues is like trying to break through a brickwall with your head though and worth going a different route over.

[bonpasbrute]

I had a machinist make some for my Honda Rubicon, he made them outta delrin, seem to be holding up great so far, probably got 1000 miles or so on them.

[2001400exrida]

if you keep your eyes peeled you can find the ishock a arms on sale pretty cheap a couple times a year they will run a special. I run the ishock on my 450r and have been very happen with them. The bushings are very good quality as is the ball joints.

i have never run the american star or full flight a arms, but i know 2 guys running them on 400's who don't have any complaints. the heims can always be replaced with upgraded heims ones the originals go bad. The arms themselves are not bad. Also look into alba racing, they make very affordable quality a arms as well.

[darnizzle8805]

There is a set of ishock arms on eBay right now. I just do have the money for them being Christmas time and all, the reason I just want to fix my stockers for the mean time. I will be seriously looking for arms by spring time for sure. I wanted to buy the I shocks really bad. But I've recently put a lot of $$ into my 400. Full rebuild, all new drive components, just ordered tires, and my starter took a dump on me. So I have yet to fire up my freshly rebuilt engine. It wouldn't even bump star as the compression is at least 11:1 and my tires were so bald, they would just slide across the ground

[2001400exrida]

Another thing about the full flights that my friend has told is that they have actually updated their heims. Apparently if you got them any time after 2010 and they weren't overstock they are a better heim joint. So, I would talk with full flight or a dealer and see what they think. Too often people will spread negative feedback on a product that they have no experience with just because it's what they have read on the forums. Check with the people who know, guys that run them and guys that deal with the part daily. I know that full flight has a lifetime warranty if the a arm is bent or cracked, that's something to consider too. I just wanted to make mention of all this so you keep and open mind and don't get steered away on something that might actual suit you perfectly.

On to the ishocks.....here's a picture of my ishock a arms mounted up, it's an older picture the same day i installed them. The 400ex ishock arms are designed very similar and will look like these.http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2013-04-13_13-03-39_596_zpsaeb1a739.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rschaef83/media/2013-04-13_13-03-39_596_zpsaeb1a739.jpg.html)

the toe was a little off too because the tie rods i was using were too long and had to be shortened to allow me to adjust the toe in properly.

[chronicsmoke]

I have a 1999 400ex, my left upper arm has play in one of the pivot bushings. I eventually plan to go to wider aftermarket arms. But for the time being, which bushing kit should I go with?

There are bronze bushing kits, delrin bushing kits, and polyurethane bushing kits. This ATV is a pleasure vehicle, I do not race in any organization. I play in fields, a friends private home made track, and on a private asphalt paved road.

Also which brand of arms should I go with? As I stated this is not a professional ATV so any arms over $4-500 is definitely out of question.

All help is appreciated, thank you all in advance.

Well as to the original question, used stock a-arms are very cheap.. You could ebay just an upper left arm and replace just that one.

I'd recomend you find a used set of BIG NAME arms.. there is a noticable difference. I had the FFlights and a lot of people bash the crap out of them, but it's with good reason. I had the right heim separate on me while landing a tabletop luckily I didn't die. Then the left one separated in the rythem section at a track that I drove 2.5 hours to get there, Talk about scary and depressing.. I didn't want to just bolt them back together again after it happened twice so I replacedthe heims with updated ones and sold my ST front end to replace it with with a Long travel front end (Stadium/Houser) and the difference in quality is def. a factor. I sold my entire front end for $500 (Full flight arms and Monster Perf. front shocks)

FYI; the old style full flight heim joints were actually bolted together, the new style just have welded pins but even if you has the older ones you could weld the pins yourself and be safe. The only adverse effect of FFlight arm,s for a weekend warrior is that they are squeaky.. Like really squeaky. They'll hear you coming from a mile away, and that was lubing the heims every time I went out lol

It's a good idea to listen to the people that have been there and done that, trouble is that sometimes people on forums aren't truthful about their experience which leads to mixed opinions and false information.

Edit: I actually found this picture which was taken 1-2 laps before the left one came apart in the rythm section, lol!
http://imageshack.us/a/img11/5374/picture2285537.jpg

[CJM]

Well as to the original question, used stock a-arms are very cheap.. You could ebay just an upper left arm and replace just that one.

I'd recomend you find a used set of BIG NAME arms.. there is a noticable difference. I had the FFlights and a lot of people bash the crap out of them, but it's with good reason. I had the right heim separate on me while landing a tabletop luckily I didn't die. Then the left one separated in the rythem section at a track that I drove 2.5 hours to get there, Talk about scary and depressing.. I didn't want to just bolt them back together again after it happened twice so I replacedthe heims with updated ones and sold my ST front end to replace it with with a Long travel front end (Stadium/Houser) and the difference in quality is def. a factor. I sold my entire front end for $500 (Full flight arms and Monster Perf. front shocks)

FYI; the old style full flight heim joints were actually bolted together, the new style just have welded pins but even if you has the older ones you could weld the pins yourself and be safe. The only adverse effect of FFlight arm,s for a weekend warrior is that they are squeaky.. Like really squeaky. They'll hear you coming from a mile away, and that was lubing the heims every time I went out lol

It's a good idea to listen to the people that have been there and done that, trouble is that sometimes people on forums aren't truthful about their experience which leads to mixed opinions and false information.

Exactly why I said to stick to the big names. I love full flights, when people complain about them I simply state: you get what you pay for. Heed warning to the bold part..

[2001400exrida]

were you running the old style heims before you updated chronic? would it be to safe to say that the new ones that they come with would make these a arms worth the purchase or do they still have the junk factor? It's no secret that the old style heims didn't last long, but from what i see now they look to be like a good product, being they're so well priced. No doubt they all squeek i can hear my friends while he's riding behind me.

[chronicsmoke]

Exactly why I said to stick to the big names. I love full flights, when people complain about them I simply state: you get what you pay for.
I'm still amazed I was able to ride it out both times it happened lol.. You'd kinda expect the arm to dig in and flip the bike.

[CJM]

I'm still amazed I was able to ride it out both times it happened lol.. You'd kinda expect the arm to dig in and flip the bike.

Probably pure luck. Or maybe perhaps the rest of everything held together enough so you didnt flip and hurt yourself severely. Ive seen cheap junk fail before, friend clipped me around a turn headon (he wasnt paying attention) and his banshee tie rod end busted right off. Looking at it, it was a cheapo ebay replacement.

[chronicsmoke]

those yamaha tie rods & ball joints are pure junk.. at least the ones on the 660 I have are lol.. I'd imagine the Banshee's are similar..

Lol Sorry for the thread jack, OP

[2001400exrida]

I'm all for listening to people who have been there and done that as we've now seen this quoted and bolded....the fact is, nobody who has spoken in this thread has tried the new setup, in fact the full flight bashing is from guys who are talking about the old faulty part which is no longer available, now if i had friends or knew somebody on a forum who said their new ff's failed....then we'd have grounds to make a claim, but bringing up an old design that is no longer even produced doesn't help with the OP's search.......which is why i encourage you to talk to people who have knowledge about the particular full flights you are looking at. Most shops and ebay sellers even mention in their add that full flight has changed a flawed design.

[DragonGunner]

Ebay is awesome....keep watching. Several yrs ago a guy was parting out his 400 XC quad and I got +1 Roll Design a-arms for 475.00. There can't be a more heavy duty a-arm out there.....called them up and asked for some new decals and they sent them to me for free.....found out they sell brand new for 1400.00. I love the +1, the +2 I ran for years were ok for MX but just too wide for XC and tight trail, harder to turn also.

[chronicsmoke]

FYI; the old style full flight heim joints were actually bolted together, the new style just have welded pins but even if you has the older ones you could weld the pins yourself and be safe. The only adverse effect of FFlight arm,s for a weekend warrior is that they are squeaky.. Like really squeaky. They'll hear you coming from a mile away, and that was lubing the heims every time I went out lol

There seems to be some confusion in what I've stated and it being taken out of context.

OP these arms will work fine for you but you will have an annoying squeak wherever you go; every time the shock compresses or you turn, which happens a lot. That being said they will be fine, I used mine for about a year and a half of MX and pit riding before they broke. I rode about two months maybe after I replaced the heims and then I sold them to get long travel (which is def.worth it if you have the funds).

I've often said full flights have their place in the a-arm market. If you have the option though, there is no substitute for good quality arms.

[quadmanw]

dude, please for safety sake, please do not buy Full flight a arms lol. I had them separate twice on me and that is with the "new" heims. Also the noise they make out of the box is super loud..

[darnizzle8805]

The squeak won't bother me. I've had many bikes and atvs. The only one I've had that DIDN'T make noise was my 2004 blaster which was like brand new. I was looking at the ASR arms before I posted this thread. And I rarely jump. If I do its a very small jump. I wouldn't mind the ishocks but by the time I get the money for them, they will be gone. I'll keep my eye out for some arms that are not 12pt adjustable or some of the bigger brand arms.

Thank you guys for all of your help. I'm still a month or so away from buying arms. So please guys keep throwing suggestions my way. Or post any decent +2 or +3 arms that you guys may see up for sale

[CJM]

dude, please for safety sake, please do not buy Full flight a arms lol. I had them separate twice on me and that is with the "new" heims. Also the noise they make out of the box is super loud..

Well now, if that isnt an invitation to look elsewhere.....

Cheap is cheap. You get what ya pay for. Stop looking for the easy way out, it will only get you hurt later. There is a distinct reason the arms are cheap-they are crap. There is also a reason why almost all a-arm makers use FRAP ball joints as well.

[quadmanw]

Well I made the mistake of going cheap when I was younger and couldn't afford it so I'm just tryin to save someone the hassle lol

[darnizzle8805]

I like how the alba arms are set up. But they are cheap so I'll have to do more research on those. But I'll still keep my eyes open for leagers, houser, roll design, etc before I completely make up my mind.

[2001400exrida]

i have never run the alba arms, but they do look solid no doubt. Cheap is not always crap.

[CJM]

I like how the alba arms are set up. But they are cheap so I'll have to do more research on those. But I'll still keep my eyes open for leagers, houser, roll design, etc before I completely make up my mind.

Not only is the steel inferior on the alba arms and thin by most standards, but they dont make them they farm it out. So good luck getting parts later for them.

[darnizzle8805]

Well out go the albas haha. I am keeping my eyes open for good brand used. Wish I could get the ishocks on eBay but now is definitely not the time to buy

[LxMxL97]

The albas are garbage my buddy had them and hated everything about them

[darnizzle8805]

I just want arms that have normal ball joints instead of heims, and heims only on the inner upper a arms. I am searching very hard to find what I prefer, and it is HARD for the price I am looking to spend.

[CJM]

I just want arms that have normal ball joints instead of heims, and heims only on the inner upper a arms. I am searching very hard to find what I prefer, and it is HARD for the price I am looking to spend.

Id have to agree, what you want really doesnt exist. I suppose you could buy full flights and buy ball joints but then your 120 dollars more into it. Find a good used set or buy the good ones.

[2001400exrida]

It does exist.

Several of the top name companies have arms that use heims just as you've described. Gibson, Walsh, LSR, and more i'm sure. They use kingpin style heims. I've also seen heims on tie rod ends as well. If you're set on heims look into one of these companies.

here's some LSR a arms that use the heims and also a ball joint on the spindle.
http://www.lsracing.com/aarm-rebuild-kit-honda-trx450400ex.853.htm

houser also used to make a heim and then they stopped doing that....heims are exposed so i can't imagine they would ever last as long as a sealed ball joint

[400man]

It does exist.

Several of the top name companies have arms that use heims just as you've described. Gibson, Walsh, LSR, and more i'm sure. They use kingpin style heims. I've also seen heims on tie rod ends as well. If you're set on heims look into one of these companies.

here's some LSR a arms that use the heims and also a ball joint on the spindle.
http://www.lsracing.com/aarm-rebuild-kit-honda-trx450400ex.853.htm

houser also used to make a heim and then they stopped doing that....heims are exposed so i can't imagine they would ever last as long as a sealed ball joint

I think he meant "in his price range"?

I bought the alba +2 arms off ebay when they first came out around early 2012 and were at a discount, like $350 I think. the arms themselves have been great, but the bushings worn out kinda quick, and the rubber boots on the ball joints are cracked/dry

[2001400exrida]

even in his price range if ya look you can find them used with the heims where he wants them and they will be in his price range for sure. yeah, darnizzle keep your eyes peeled you'll find some used ones that pop up in your price range. i got my ishocks barely used for $150.

[2001400exrida]

nevermind they sold, lol i found a set of lsr's with the heims where you want them for 250 used on a forum, but they're sold now.

[81dasher81]

just out of curiosity, what do you dislike about he kingpin heims? i put them on a arms that i made, and i really like them alot, but thats just my opinion

[darnizzle8805]

I prefer balljoints, I feel they are cheaper to replace. I am not a professional racer and will never run long travel arms. I just don't desire the amount of articulation or travel heims provide. I just want simple arms. I like how the albas are set up, and how the caster is adjusted. but if they aren't made out of what they say then I don't want them. But for my type of riding, I feel the cheaper arms would do me just fine. However I really do not want to chance it, the reason on asking more experienced members these questions.

[CJM]

Ball joints are safer, heims come apart or snap. Thats why almost every top arm maker uses ball joints on almost all of their stuff. From 1500 dollar walsh arms, to 800 dollar housers. What happens with heims is the clips that hold everything together fail often... The ones who still use heims amaze me, if they worked so well why would everyone else use FRAP ball joints? Notice that most ball joints are angled, sure you can buy straight tie rod ends from cars like VW bugs that work but the angle is there for a reason. If heims were so good then every car maker would use them over ball joints b/c they are WAY cheaper to make. They are left exposed and thats part of the reason the fail, dirt gets in and ruins them.

Stop trying to prove me wrong, you will only die trying.

[DragonGunner]

I ran JD performance a arms...loved them but went through several balljoints in 7 yrs and had 2 that broke.....one ended my race at the Ironman GNCC after only going about a mile.....replaced another one time because it was bent so bad. In the 7 yrs. I have ran Roll Design a arm heims they are still going strong, I did replace one lower a couple yrs ago. Roll design said thats not to common, the lowers seem to last forever. These things look so much better made and stronger than ball joints. Maybe some of the cheaper heims on the cheaper a arms are junk...?.....But I have only good things to say about Roll design heims......and I thought Walsh was still selling a arms with heims....?

[CJM]

DragonGunner: Id be willing to be they are much better versions than the standard stuff, roll design doesnt play around. I never had a ball joint fail, stock or aftermarket arms on 3 quads. But I also have a needle attachment for my grease gun and add grease once a season. I also inspect for holes and seal them if need be using RTV. Do the rolls use the pressed in style heims or the ones similar to full flights that bolt on?

My riding buddy has a polaris with fullflights, he almost got hurt badly when one failed on landing a jump and another failed from just use one day taking a turn.

[2001400exrida]

It's nothing to do with proving people wrong, this is a discussion, where we get together and discuss different options and opinions. Dragon gunner good points and you obviously have seen that heims aren't all bad. We are here to help darnizzle and give input. Too often things are one sided and opposing views or experiences are veto'd before a good tech discussion can be had. It's good to allow differing opinions and then darnizzle can form his conclusion based on the input. Insulting and not allowing all sides to speak is what ruins good tech talk. Let's not automatically get personal.

I race with guys who swear by heims and can think of 4 companies that make a good heim a arms and they stick by them and they aren't cheap. Gibson, walsh and lsr are very reputable companies that use good heims, it's not just roll design, although i'm sure there's are good too. Same goes for the tie rod ends. Top of the line companies offer heim options for tie rod ends

here's a picture of some walsh heim tie rod ends off my buddies tt race quad.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_6741_zps41561ac0.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rschaef83/media/IMG_6741_zps41561ac0.jpg.html)

and here's an lsr setup with the upper heims that you're talking about darnizzle.....i nabbed this pic off facebook its a 450, but ya get the idea.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/heims_zpscf949150.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rschaef83/media/heims_zpscf949150.jpg.html)

[81dasher81]

i get my heims from ballistic fabrication, they have a working strength of 27,012 lbs, they are high quality chomoly though and fairly inexpensive, i could see why some of the more inferior brands would fail prematurely though. i also run roll design, (theyre just the thread in 3/4" heim) on my 450 and havent had any problems with the heims, because like you said cjm, they really dont mess around. i did however use the stock tie-rod ends when i made my tie-rods. not trying to prove anyone wrong, just sharing what works for me, and what i'll continue doing until it fails haha

[400man]

hmm, I didn't know you could get heim tierod ends? pretty neat. im nt dissing one or the other, but I think the rule of thumb is....if you ride/race/whatever in any mud or water or anything similar, its best to use sealed ball joints because they will last longer.

I had some used fullflights before the albas, I didn't have a problem with em at the time, I just wanted some new a-arms. the FF's were worn out, all the heims had play in em and were squeaky. and one time I was going across the field (not too fast thankfully) and the allen bolt for the lower a-arm main heim backed out and it came off the spindle. I managed to get it threaded back in and ride back to the house. I put threadlock and tightend em all and never had any more problems with em. and heres some pics of my junk when I got the new albas.

http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/003.jpg (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/ky2stroker/media/003.jpg.html)
http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/002.jpg (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/ky2stroker/media/002.jpg.html)
http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/005.jpg (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/ky2stroker/media/005.jpg.html)
http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/004.jpg (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/ky2stroker/media/004.jpg.html)
http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/ky2stroker/001.jpg (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/ky2stroker/media/001.jpg.html)

[DragonGunner]

DragonGunner: Id be willing to be they are much better versions than the standard stuff, roll design doesnt play around. I never had a ball joint fail, stock or aftermarket arms on 3 quads. But I also have a needle attachment for my grease gun and add grease once a season. I also inspect for holes and seal them if need be using RTV. Do the rolls use the pressed in style heims or the ones similar to full flights that bolt on?

My riding buddy has a polaris with fullflights, he almost got hurt badly when one failed on landing a jump and another failed from just use one day taking a turn.

I think they are pressed in but it doesn't take much to take out or put on back in, just a few taps put my replacement back in. There is a cir clip at the bottom and then you put a cir clip on top. I was a little worried about those clips, but I use to watch Travis Spader run Rolls and he won a MX Pro championship on them so figured they gotta be good. I have never seen anyone with full flights...so I don't know how they are compared to them. The Rolls arms are very heavy. You won't save any weight on these!!!

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz219/61chalk/dc/DSC00827_zps98daab50.jpg (http://s829.photobucket.com/user/61chalk/media/dc/DSC00827_zps98daab50.jpg.html)

[2001400exrida]

so now that we've established that heims are offered by top name companies and can be very sturdy and reliable, on to the next question. What benefits do heims offer over the FRAP balljoints that are so common. I can think of a couple reasons just out of assumption. One being they operate and move more smoothly. Especially in the case of the tie rod ends the steering is so easy, especially when you're pounding a corner with lots of pressure on the joints.

what do you guys think?

I was checking out some pro TT quads on our FB group and noticed that it's actually much more common to run heims than I had originally thought. In the TT world, generally speaking, you're not exposed to the same eliments....(maybe a little mud during practice heats)

[LxMxL97]

I personally never have any experience with heims but my next set of a arms will either be walsh, another set of housers , or atv fourplay and 2 of the 3 have heims

[Thumpin440ex]

Keep a look out on ebay for sure, even here. I scored a MINT set of LSR + 2's for a stupid cheap price. Heims have there places, but I wouldn't trust a cheaper set of arms with them. Also if your still looking for stock a arm I have a set of them. PM me if your interested..

John