GTT XC/MX link

[KKiowaTJ]

Just curious if anyone could explain just what these links do. I ride so much different terrain by the time id get a xc, Id be on the track mainly.

I ride in any and all so just curious what is the best route to go? Just curious on what they do and if there is a happy medium link lol or stick with the stocker. Too many options nowadays to fine tune everything in and suspension is where id like to start.

[chronicsmoke]

Biggest difference is you can ride an MX link with 18" tires or put 20" tires and only raise your ride height by an inch.

If you get an XC link and run 18" tires your frame will hit the ground before your shock finishes travel. The XC link takes the larger tire size into consideration to maximize travel and run a correct ride height.. So, if you ever want to run 18's go MX and just run 20's when your trailing.

That's what I do on my 450r and even started racing XC with. I didn't notice the 1" higher ride height, probably better for clearence anyway, lol.

[KKiowaTJ]

Cool, Looks like im a mx link guy lol. Thanks for the help bud

[ben300]

essentially as chronic said, one is meant for 18" tires and up, and the other is mean for 20" tires and up. you can buy an mx link and have your rear shock valved and sprung for xc if you desire. theres just a slight difference in geometry between the two.


a word of advice, if you way more than 130# you will have to have your rear shock redone. the links change the rear shock position and give it more of a progressive travel with a broader curve, thus the stock shock is only good for people #130 pounds or under.



the gt links, with a rebuilt rear shock are hands down one of the BEST things you can do to a 400, or 450. they make the damn things ride amazing

[KKiowaTJ]

essentially as chronic said, one is meant for 18" tires and up, and the other is mean for 20" tires and up. you can buy an mx link and have your rear shock valved and sprung for xc if you desire. theres just a slight difference in geometry between the two.


a word of advice, if you way more than 130# you will have to have your rear shock redone. the links change the rear shock position and give it more of a progressive travel with a broader curve, thus the stock shock is only good for people #130 pounds or under.



the gt links, with a rebuilt rear shock are hands down one of the BEST things you can do to a 400, or 450. they make the damn things ride amazing


I know ill never go over 20" rears. Good to know about the rear shock, Im down to 210lbs 6'4 tall though to off set it lol. I think the best plan would be to have my front 450's and rear done with the link ready so all can be set and dialed in. I have a friend who is race tech certified and IIRC he can triple rate them with gold valves. I also have jet on my list too.

I love a stiff suspension so ill have to go off my winter weight. Thanks for the heads up on the rear shock and weight while adding a link, I have no clue about them and what they do until I asked today. I take it as the mx is long travel and slows travel down and bigger travel range. The xc uses the tire as part of the plush travel/ride to smooth out the trail.

Im probably wrong, But trying to figure it out. But the more I find, I need a 450. Its just the maintenance of valves and what not that holds me back. I was told every race/other to be safe or 30-50 hours is all that's needed and I honestly don't know who to follow. I know everyone rides different and there meaning of hard is light/abuse to me.
Hell truth be told I don't know when to check the ol 400's? But was told by many and read everywhere you will know more than need to do. I can still smoke a clutch like a pro though lmao.

[CJM]

Generally as Chronic stated its tire size. Also depends on terrain alot, I went wit the XC on the 400 for desert riding and no mater what I didnt like it, almost felt like too much travel. Then again the 450r fronts are way stiff too lol.

The 450 I went with the mx link since I ride desert/whoops/sand and will run 20's. The clearance isnt too much of an issue for me, and theres no rocks so.

[KKiowaTJ]

That's the first thing I noticed after getting them on and set to as soft as possible, Stiff as hell but at least something there to absorb some until valve and spring. Didn't get too much time on the track or trails/hills, But sand and loose gravel or hard surface I could tell they are there.

[Blodg]

KKiowaTJ, you said you will never go over 20" rears but the bigger question may be will you ever go with 18" rears? If not then it makes most sense to go with the XC link for most people.

CJM, why did you go with the MX link if you are running 20" tires? The riding you described and the tire size would suit the XC link perfectly.

I upgraded to the XC link and revalved/respring on the rear as well as the fronts this spring and I love the handling. I can hit most sections of the trail at full speed and feel fully in control. Before the suspension upgrade I could ride almost as fast but every once in a while I would almost get thrown over the bars in a rough or whoops section. After the upgrade I feel fully confident in attacking every section of the trails with the 400EX full throttle.

On the 450 note, I too keep questioning whether I want to go to a 450. I am intrigued but I keep coming back to the fact that my style of riding I can keep up with every 450 I have ever ridden with and pull away from most of them. One of the biggest things that makes me want to keep riding a 400EX is that I LOVE riding with guys who assume that a 400 is slow and assume a 450 is fast. I guess I like being the underdog and seeing the looks and comments from these guys that a 45 yr-old on a "slow" 400EX just smoked them and their 450 on the trails. Also the pure fun factor of a 400EX is off the scale and while a 450 will do a few things better I doubt that it will be more fun overall (especially with the increased maintenance). And for those of us who don't race anymore having fun is the ONLY reason we ride. If those guys pull away from me in an open field or a long straight I am OK with that because I always catch that small amount back up when we get back in the woods.

[CJM]

The XC link has too much travel in some cases for the riding I do, it was to soft no matter the preload or valving setup I tried as well. I was 200lbs in gear and we set the shock up for someone weighing 50-75lbs more...to soft. Im sure the 450 front shocks didnt help however. The biggest deal is I dont run 22" tires and wont ever, I do desert/dune riding basically and the XC link is NOT good for most jumps-just to soft. It also hangs way to low and I also prefer a stiffer setup anyways. Valving is setup for slower riding for the XC link, as is spring is softer. Your not going insanely fast in XC riding in most cases either unless its an open area. Also the XC link drops the rear a good inch or better than the MX link with 20" tires. It was low in alot of cases for me. I was catching the ground in places. Also Laz at GTT has been known to tell people if you ride any type of dunes you want the mx link.

I also do not ride slow, ever period. Throttle is on/off, no in between. Im usually grabbing 3rd-5th easily in many spots.

As for the 400 to 450 debate: I have ridden 400 stock, mild worked and insanely worked as well as 04-05 450 and 06+. The 450 is flat out more powerfull even against my heavily worked 400 I had. The 04-05 stock is a 10.5 piston and crappy cam and it walked all over 400's, my 400 gave it a run for the money but once we hit higher gears it left it behind. 06+ forget about it, its faster than both a worked/stock 400 and a stock 04-05. Once I worked my 450 it was a totally different animal and Im dead even with my buddies big bore 06+ that has everything but a port job and behind my buddy who spent big cash on his 08 and his makes 70hp. My 04 450 is a happy medium, but more power would be nice lol. All I got is port, cam and 12:1 piston among some other small tweaks and comparable builds make about 48-55hp in most cases. Your not getting that out of a 400 even with a big bore stroker kit.

Technically, what the 400 is good for is being an all around quad. It isnt the fastest and it isnt the slowest, a 450 stock will murder it if the rider knows what they are doing. What I liked most about the 400 was the fact it was like a tractor, dang near impossible to stall. Your not gonna be putting around on a 450, they dont work like that. You can let go of the throttle on the 400 and jab it and go, 450 dont like that lot unless your in a low gear. Compare the 450/400 to the following: small block v8 car to a big block v8 car. Small block can keep up, but should the big block really lay into it small block is toast. I still miss my 400 tho, the torque they got and the way they rev is really fun even compared to a 450.

[KKiowaTJ]

I have hope's of trying to race a small local circuit this season and ill most likely run my 20/20" tire combo or try and borrow a set of 18" rear ones. But, With it built around the 20's id have to try it first and see how I like it with gearing etc.
Hate to say it, But if the front was a tad bit softer, id run it as is. I don't get arm pump easy and have lost 60lbs total this time around IIRC so I wouldn't have to mod the motor with $$ I don't have ;). But I want to give it one last shot against the young kids and see how I do. Only reason im doing it is for pure fun, And boob's.

[Blodg]

OK CJM, thanks for the explanation on the MX link in the dunes.

As for the 400 to 450 debate, a fully built 450 is faster than a fully built 400 as you explained. The issue is that in the woods most riders can not make use of all that power because the terrain will not allow it. A mildly built 450, however, is very close to a fully built 400. I have seen a few dyno charts that show they make similar HP and just a few weeks ago I rode a buddies '05 450R with a pipe/cam (don't know what piston) and I was very surprised that my 416 was every bit as fast through 3rd gear. With my stock gearing and his 1 tooth down on the front my 416 in 2nd pulled very similar to his 450 in 1st and the same with me in 3rd and him in 2nd. These are the gears we both climb in so it was basically a wash except that his 450 had more over rev than my 416. The reason it surprised me so much is that this dude is a hill climbing pro and climbs absolutely insane hills that no one else climbs except a few guys on CR500's with extended swingarms. Anyways, everyone assumes his 450 is very powerful and after riding it myself it really wasn't overly powerful. To me it was just another example that it is his riding skill (and lack of fear) that makes him such a good hill climber and not the power of his motor.

[CJM]

450 has more usable power Id say, the 400 peters out rather fast around 7800rpm or so I remember. Once you throw the higher compression piston in the mix the comparison isnt even close. Do the port work and forget about it. I did love the way you can max out 2nd or 3rd gear (if your geared right) on a modified 400 and climb stuff tho

I miss my 400 tho, really was a nice setup but the crank was on its way out so I sold it. Otherwise I woulda kept it :)

[KKiowaTJ]

I like the higher speeds/free riding. Natural or outdoor jumps, Id love to have the desert as my backyard lol. Speed is what I will be after when the suspension is done and plush. Sounds like a mx is what would suit me best.

I ride/shift/try and keep my rpm at 7-8k, Every now and then a Barcia braap, But like mentioned you can lug the tractor around all day and you have to go out of your way to stall out. That's why im weighing both options, Or plan C.
If I put money into the ex and get it dialed in, A CRF450 hybrid swap. That way I get the speed I want and a quad im comfortable on.

Only downfall, I have a 400 motor sitting around and for the 'total' price, Id be money ahead with just buying a 450. In the long run top end high speeds is the goal, 80mph +/-. I don't know if the 400 is capable of that without a big chunk of $$.
As it is, Ill most likely play with the 400 a bit and give it some time and thought. Where I live, I can field ride fast, But mainly trails and river beds unless you go to or have a mx track.

Out of curiosity, How often do you guys with 450's run the valves? I know riding styles differ, Ballpark is all im looking for.

[CJM]

I have about 30 hours on rebuild with all valves, springs and seals replaced. Before was estimated 100+ hours by previous owner and although valves sealed well they were worn and the exhaust valve guides were worn. 1-2 kicks it fires right up always cold, once warm 1 kick. Buddy of mine ran his 06 for 4 solid years and just adjusted them once it became hard to start every once and awhile. When he finally replaced them the titanium valves in that thing were junk. No issues no once replaced. 04-05 use steel valves that last longer too.

450 can haul 80mph no problem. 400 does do it, but you need the coin. I managed to do it once I did the motor, cam, exhaust, carb, intake. But the 450 just does it better. Suspension of the older 450s are closer to a 400ex too. All I did was swap to a 06+ swingarm.

[KKiowaTJ]

That's not bad at all then. Most made it sound like you spend as much time working on them as riding them. Guess ill go back to my original plan and look for a 04'/05' kicker that's suspension built and a mild or stock motor and keep the 400 for a spare/all purpose quad.
But im not in a hurry and the 400 needs some parts so it will be a bit unless the 'right' deal comes along. By then I hope to be living in another area that will have a lot of wide open high speed areas.

[CJM]

Its not that bad, but yes they need attention compared to a 400. A 400 you could ride forever and it probably wouldnt die.

[2001400exrida]

my hundy runs the XC link, i had my rear shock setup by Jet suspension for my fat butt and it is perfect. I have never tried the MX link on the 400's so I do'nt know how they feel, but I can say my XC link with the 20" xrex tires is a dream compared to stock on the trails.

If you're running woods and not hitting huge jumps i'd stick with the XC link. any good shock builder can set you up.

[400man]

id like to see a pic of both linkages side by side together, and a measurement between the holes,......but I doubt anyone would happen to have both links just lying around to do this :ermm:

[chronicsmoke]

my hundy runs the XC link, i had my rear shock setup by Jet suspension for my fat butt and it is perfect. I have never tried the MX link on the 400's so I do'nt know how they feel, but I can say my XC link with the 20" xrex tires is a dream compared to stock on the trails.

Nice, did you have any clearence issues?

I have the box lifted and exhaust spaced to clear the caliper for the 450r LT elka link, just looking at the subframe issue. Got any pic of your setup for reference?

[2001400exrida]

Only issue i had was the skid plate didn't work and I had to cut a chunk out of it for linkage. At some point i would like to just run sprocket and rotor guards and get rid of the skid completely. I don't have a pic of it up close, but you can see how it sits different than a stock hundy

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2011-04-17_15-56-09_404_zps68354a2d.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rschaef83/media/2011-04-17_15-56-09_404_zps68354a2d.jpg.html)

[chronicsmoke]

Only issue i had was the skid plate didn't work and I had to cut a chunk out of it for linkage. At some point i would like to just run sprocket and rotor guards and get rid of the skid completely. I don't have a pic of it up close, but you can see how it sits different than a stock hundy

Crazy I had to space my exhaust like an inch to the right, it was almost touching with the stock travel from the stock setup.

No subframe issues? hmm.. try and get close up picture if you get a chance, I'd like to see why mine hits if there is a way to do it and avoid that..

Exhaust spacing;
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/7734/xprs.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img202/4757/g5p2.jpg

figuring out compressed/extended lengths because I'm using a 450r swinger (messes with geopmetry and makes it sit weird) and a 450r LT Linkage..

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/6921/mdtz.jpg
(The 400ex comp/ext lengths are different than the 450r comp/extended lengths with the same swingarm and linkage)

[CJM]

Yep, I recall my 400 with the GTT XC link needed the subframe bent slightly to clear the caliper and the exhaust had to be spaced similar to Chronics. I also raised the airbox like an inch.

[2001400exrida]

first and foremost i should have mentioned i'm running a 450r rear end, lol. but even with the XC link i've never had the airbox hit or the pipe hit the caliper. It may be that when JET revalved the shock they did it proper so i wouldn't bottom or it may be the 450r swinger, axle and brake are helping???? My shorty LRD would not hit the caliper when it goes all the way down, it clears it.

[chronicsmoke]

hmm not sure.. next time your in the shop snap a picture of it. supposidly the reason why it hits is the increased up travel with the 20" tires. Did you have Jet build the shock for the 450r swinger? or did the 400ex specs end up being perfect? I was kind of confused when the measurements I got were off the 450rs but I spoke with Thierry @ Stadium and he explained it it more detail. He does all my suspension.

also was it the 450r linkage or 400ex linkage?

[2001400exrida]

here you can see the pipe clearly misses the caliper. it's about 2 inches actually i used the 400ex linkage believe it or not, have been told that the shock on the rear 400's is identical to the 04/05 450r rear shock. I had the 400 shock ralved and put into the ex linkage with the xc link. One thing i did not think about is that the caliper mounts a little different and that may be the reason it's clearing with the 450r caliper.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/20101219172644.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/rschaef83/media/20101219172644.jpg.html)

[chronicsmoke]

Yah I never had any issues with the stock setup/450r rear end either but when I went looking for shock measurements the airbox hit the linkage mount and the exhaust hit the caliper (450r caliper) so I'm not sure what's up.. next time you're in the shop with a camera snap one of your GTT setup to compare.. even with the fenders off if you think of it (nice thing about the 400 design).

I'm in no rush, my 400 is only a side project in the winter/ early spring. Thanks!

[2001400exrida]

you're running the lt elka link which is probably very different from my gtt xc link. I do know that gtt will suggest you run a specific spring rate with their link. i think jet put a 400# spring rate on my stock shock and valved it for my 190lbs.

[CJM]

here you can see the pipe clearly misses the caliper. it's about 2 inches actually i used the 400ex linkage believe it or not, have been told that the shock on the rear 400's is identical to the 04/05 450r rear shock. I had the 400 shock ralved and put into the ex linkage with the xc link. One thing i did not think about is that the caliper mounts a little different and that may be the reason it's clearing with the 450r caliper

400ex shock is not the same length as either the 04-05 450 shock or 06+ shock. 04-05 is shorter by about 1/2" and the 06+ is longer than the EX shock. Linkages are also different lengths overall.

Also, that appears to be a stock shock coil. Coil for 400lbs spring rate is almost always blue b/c color denotes the rider weight its setup for.

Id like to see some up close pictures of how its mounted to the linkage and the shock itself if you wouldnt mind.

[2001400exrida]

400ex shock is not the same length as either the 04-05 450 shock or 06+ shock. 04-05 is shorter by about 1/2" and the 06+ is longer than the EX shock. Linkages are also different lengths overall.

Also, that appears to be a stock shock coil. Coil for 400lbs spring rate is almost always blue b/c color denotes the rider weight its setup for.

Id like to see some up close pictures of how its mounted to the linkage and the shock itself if you wouldnt mind.

you are incorrect color does not denote rider weight, you can get nearly any color you want when it comes to springs, in fact i had yellow on it when i purchased it. I'm not positive but i believe this the exact spring that is on mine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-TRX-400EX-Rear-High-Flow-Piston-Kit-w-Spring-400-EX-GT-Thunder-/370616846046?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564a7c46de&vxp=mtr
That shock may look stock but it's not, the spring is a 400# spring rate, don't get that confused with the shock being valved for a 400# rider, that's not what is being implied. The shock is valved for a 190 lb rider, and the valving has everything to do with rider weight the spring color does not denote the rider weight that the spring is setup for.

i'll get a better picture of the rear end setup so you guys can see it. I wonder if the fact that i'm running a little longer 400 shock on that 450 rear end is why i'm not bottoming so bad? the shock was serviced and resprung and valved so it's no longer a 400ex shock, it's a shock setup for a 400ex running a 450r rear end.

[chronicsmoke]

I wonder if the fact that i'm running a little longer 400 shock on that 450 rear end is why i'm not bottoming so bad? the shock was serviced and resprung and valved so it's no longer a 400ex shock, it's a shock setup for a 400ex running a 450r rear end.

what was the difference in the 450r r rear end?

When I emailed and spoke to a few guys about it (jet/d-works/stadium) they said they weren't sure which shock/dogbone/linkage combo would be the best fit. (I thought I could buy a 06+ 450r swinger and 06+ GTT setup and bolt it on to the 400ex but that's not the case)

They said I'd have to take measurements for them, to determine which route to go.. They must have only figured it out recently because I was talking to them about it no more than 6 months ago. Then I found a 2nd Elka LT link and LT stadium shock so I decided to put the Elka/Elka LT combo on the 400ex and get it valved for MX so I can still run XC tires.

Interested in more info, I've been playing with this for a while :cool:

[2001400exrida]

I don't think the 450r rear end did anything, but on the hundy my swingarm bolt was seized up and so i had to hack the swinger off, since the carrier and everything was trashed from PO, i just found the whole 450r rear end kit for $200 something on ebay and went that route. as far as i KNow the only upgrade would be the better brake caliper and the dual row bearing in one side of the carrier of the 450r as well as a slightly wider axle??? Other than that i think the swinger is the same legnth as the 04/05's. Essentially the 400ex or the 450r linkage would work, i kept the linkage that came with it. WHen i talked with JET two years ago about this, he informed me that i would need a new shock setup to run the XC linkage, because stock one would be way too soft. Which is when i had him do the respring and re valve for this particular setup. I don't know exactly how my amazing machine does not bottom the airbox out, but it never has, again i don't take monster jumps on it. The pipe must be by particular exhaust design. it's and lrd and it does have a spacer on the subframe that came with my lexx pipe. I only used the spacer because the bolt and nut i was using needed to be spaced for the threads to reach.

here's the old thread from 3 years ago when i did the 450r rear end
http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?453325-450r-rear-end-on-400ex/page6
.....remember when us guys used to get along??? oh the good ole days....anyway, only things i did after putting that rear on was the xc linkage and the shock rebuild, otherwise, it's still running that rear end no problemo after many many trail rides.

[chronicsmoke]

I thought about it after, I was thinking of the 06+ setup that they’d never heard of doing. They didn’t have dimensions because it’s different than the 04/05 450r and 400ex. Yah back in the day you and I were like the only two with that swap.. That’s also pretty well why I changed mine to a 450r rear end too, I had my 450 and wanted to swap it so I took everything including the Dominator II axle and put it on the 400ex. Took me a few different linkages and dogbones (I think the 400ex and 04/05 links are different) but it was worth it as the 400ex swingarm/brakes were SHOT..

Yes the links we’re running are different but that should only change the shock dimensions as Laz designed the linkages the same way I’m taking measurements for maximum usable shock travel (2*4s on the ground to get compressed lengths). So I must be doing something wrong if my airbox hits so hard and exhaust had to be spaced at both mounting locations on the subframe. (seriously the airbox hit the linkage mount before the exhaust hit the caliper so when I spaced the box I ran into a new issue with the exhaust. I also plan on running a sprocket guard so I may have to bend my subframe out.)

I’m still interested in seeing a pic, like I said whenever you get a chance; I knew there had to be an easier way.. I’ll only be really riding this baby in the spring between Ice and MX so I’m in no rush.

[2001400exrida]

chronic, i'm gonna take some pictures soon, curious though....when you the machine is loaded, with your weight and you're sitting on it, how close is your airbox? Is it already to the point of almost touching?> I would have to think your swingarm would be at a downward angle if your box was hitting the swinger so easily. My swingarm with the linkage is almost parallel with the ground when on a flat surface, if i press down on the rear suspension real hard it will start to point downward, but i haven't managed to get it to hit. maybe my subframe was bent just perfect from the PO, lol i honestly don't know. I"m talking with JET and they're doing my tt shocks at the moment so I will see if Tim can pull up some old work, problem is that since the new ownership they may not have all the same guys working.

[chronicsmoke]

I have the same swinger as you with the same frame mounting location and same tire size so it should be identical I can’t see how it would be different.. unless your subframe was bent like 2” up but I’m not sure that’s even possible as it would mess with plastics/airbox alignment. I’m guess I’m just having a hard time picturing it.. a pic would probably help understand better.

I can say for sure the MX tire setup isn’t as bad as the XC tire.. the larger tire size allows the frame to sit about an inch lower than the mx tires making the airbox hit. That being said, I also had issues with the airbox/exhaust with the 18” tires. The 20” rears just made me space the airbox up even higher to compensate. I have the no shock on at the moment; the 450r specs for the Elka link are pretty close to the XC settings on the 400. If I use 18” tires with the Elka/Elka setup my 400s frame will bottom, but I can run any size tire on my 450r with the same linkage/shock. I may roll with the 450r shock w/ 20's until I send my new stadium and the elka to thierry @ stadium for his magic.

[2001400exrida]

what shock are you running with it, i think alot of this has to do with our suspension setups, as I know that JET set mine up for my particular setup. Are you running a 400ex legnth shock or a 450r legnth shock?

As i mentioned I'm running the 450r gtt xc link with the 450r rear end and with a jet valved and sprung rear shock

[chronicsmoke]

what shock are you running with it, i think alot of this has to do with our suspension setups, as I know that JET set mine up for my particular setup. Are you running a 400ex legnth shock or a 450r legnth shock?

As i mentioned I'm running the 450r gtt xc link with the 450r rear end and with a jet valved and sprung rear shock

Shock is irrelevant.. I'm taking the measurments to have my Elka custom built, but the frame height measurements @ Compressed & Extended lengths will be the same between the GTT XC link/Shock you're running and the 450r Elka long travel setup I'm custom building (I'm using Laz's method to find the shock lengths, which is how he did it to get the info for his links).

The only thing that changes is the length of the shock and the mounting location of the shock on the linkage. Swinger pivot stays the same, shock mount on the frame stays the same, dogbone mounting location stays the same and frame height will stay the same so in theory the relationship between the swinger/airbox/exhaust should also remain the same.

I'm having a hard picturing anything that would cause me to have these clearence issues while you were able to just bolt on and go.

[2001400exrida]

yeah i'm not sure how to compare either since we have different linkages and different shocks. I know that my setup is working well enough not to allow my airbox to bottom out. The pipe clears on it's own.....and as i've already mentioned i think that may have to do with the exhaust design. have you tried any other pipes? for example on my 450r the hmf is an oval and so i can run a lowering link super low and it won't hit the caliper, only thing it could hit would be the axle if it ever got that low which it won't.

Are you sure the shock legnth has nothing to do with the ride height and the travel distance of the subframe? I would think a properly built shock would prevent the subby from bottoming as easily, whether it be legnth or stiffness of the shocks it should control how much travel and how quickly or easily it will bottom out.

[chronicsmoke]

Are you sure the shock legnth has nothing to do with the ride height and the travel distance of the subframe? I would think a properly built shock would prevent the subby from bottoming as easily, whether it be legnth or stiffness of the shocks it should control how much travel and how quickly or easily it will bottom out.

Shock legnth would not affect it because I'm having the shock built based on the frame height. The wheel travel on our bikes will be the same but I'll have a an extra inch or two of shock travel.. see what I mean? It's complicated but I'm positive I'm on the right track in my way of thinking. The GTT XC linkage is designed to have the shocks bottom out with the frame ~ 1.5" off the ground (or like sitting on 2x4s) which if you look back to my pic, that is exactly what I'm doing. I got the MX measurements and then put XC tires on the see the difference.. it makes sense in my head and Josh(DW)/Thierry seemed to agree.. Thierry even said send me the shock and he'll take care of it as long as I include the new measurements.

Which is why I really want to see a picture of your GTT setup.. maybe the difference will be clear as day. But the way I see it, and from the research I've been doing on it for the last year something doen't make sense.. pretty well everyone else has had to adress some sort of clearence issue running any kind of aftermarket linkage (especially with xc sized tires) :ermm:

[2001400exrida]

I think you have to get your shock dialed in man. I know guys who haven't had any problems bottoming their airboxes and have not raised them and run the gtt xc link. I have my pipe spaced off the subby about an inch, but i think it would clear the caliper even if i didn't have it spaced. I only spaced it because the bolt and nut ran out of threads without the spacer.

look here where mark didn't have to move his airbox at all http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?499511-GTT-400ex-XC-link

are you pounding big jumps, i don't do anythbing but trails on my gtt xc link so like i said i've never had a problem with bottoming out the airbox.

nick at jet told me i wouldn't have to raise my airbox with my setup (xc link and revalve) and he was right. Maybe reach out to them and see what they tell you about what type of shock you need to setup to run this linkage.

i know with 18" tires on the hundy that the frame will bottom before my shock ends travel. I don't run 18's though, i run 20" xrex.

laz at gtt will specifically tell you that the xc link makes things soft and to have your shock builder compensate for it. any good shock builder will already know this. I honestly think when people are bottoming out so easily with the link it's because they don't have their shock stiff enough. Trying to run a stock shock will certainly bottom out super easy with the xc link. I personally have never bottomed mine out with the shock set the way it is. as i mentioned the spring rate is #400 which is pretty dang high, but accomodates the link perfectly.

[chronicsmoke]

You're not getting what I'm saying.. with the stock 400ex swingarm(or any swingarm), all 3 shocks off and the frame resting on 2x4s the E2E length between the frame and linkage mounts is your compressed length.. and at this length I ran out of clearence between the airbox and the mounting location for the dogbone on the swingarm. I don't have to 'dial my shocks in' because this is basic math that I'm doing (and that is required) when building a custom setup. The shock is not built for the 400ex yet. The clearence issues are from trying to get the proper measurments.. For instance if I took the measurement from before the box and swinger hit eachother, my compressed length would be longer, meaning the frame would bottom out above 3" off the ground which is wasting travel... get what I'm sayin?

All I want is to see a pic of your GTT setup and I'm sure the difference between mine and your subframes will be clear.

Also, if you've never bottomed your shock you may want to try and dial it in.. if you never bottom that means you're not using all of the shock's travel which means you're wasting travel, which is not the way the link/shock sould be working (it's not how they were designed). After getting some solid advice, I set my shocks up to slightly bottom or bottom on the biggest jump/obsticle at a track (either MX or XC..)

[2001400exrida]

lol, i completely understand and i can tell you right now i bet i'm "wasting travel" in order to avoid the clearance issues you're talking about. I'm going to gather details from JET see if they can go back and see what exactly was done, my guess at this point is they are aware of waht the fully compressed legnth can be before the box hits. They tuned the shock to this so i didn't have issues with frame bottoming out or issues with airbox hitting. You're trying to measure eye to eye length at the fully compressed position. You say at that spot it has clearance issues, so my suggestion would be to set that fully compressed position closer to the 3" mark as you have said and you won't have issue with clearance. The only assumption i can make is that JET was aware of this and tuned to this, otherwise i have no idea because my box just doesn't hit man.

I'll snap some photos, i don't know what it will do to make a clear difference lol. the clear difference to me is that you aren't running the same linkage and you aren't running a shock that has been setup properly....no? there's a big difference between a long travel link and shock vs the regular travel. if you had a gtt xc link we could compare apples to apples, but we aren't talking apples to apples. In my experience, my gtt link and setup shock does not allow my airbox to hit the swinger....at least not yet.

[chronicsmoke]

lol That's the thing... it's still apples to apples because we aren't talking about the difference in shock travel/linkage setup, we're talking wheel travel..

Which is why I can't understand why JET would set your shock up to only use 70% of the travel. It's not about swinger hitting the airbox that has nothing to do with performance, it's about frame height and wheel travel.

My setup may yeild a tad more 'down travel' from the extended shock (but it shouldn't as I'm trying to achieve the same ride height as a proper setup GTT linked 400) but the 'up travel' should remain very similar as the measurements are both taken with the frame on 2x4s and with XC tires on.. Definetly interested to see what could be different. Suspension is my favorite subject if you can't tell.. lol.

[Blodg]

I can't help with the 450R swinger conversion but I am interested in doing this on my 400EX if the issues were figured out. I will add that you definitely want your suspension to bottom out occasionally.

[2001400exrida]

I can't help with the 450R swinger conversion but I am interested in doing this on my 400EX if the issues were figured out. I will add that you definitely want your suspension to bottom out occasionally.

suspension maybe, but frame bottoming out, no.

[chronicsmoke]

The frame won't be able to hit the ground because it will have a gap the width of a 2x4 between the frame and the ground (hence why I took the measurements with my quad on 2 2x4s.) That is the overall compressed length where the shocks bottom out with ~1.5" of clearence. So it's impossible to frame out unless your're landing in 2" ruts.

Now I'm really curious to see what JET set you up with, Ryan..


I can't help with the 450R swinger conversion but I am interested in doing this on my 400EX if the issues were figured out.
Once I know for sure I'm going to update my thread.. Stickman400 has a thread where he put that link in.. I think he has a buttload of pictures too.

[2001400exrida]

Yeah, or look at the thread i linked i show several pictures of the setup and how it worked. I have nothing but positive experience with putting the 450r rear on the 400 and there are no issues with it. the gtt link with a soft rear shock will cause the issues, but you can run the stock linkage and stock shock on a 450r rear end with a 400ex with no issues, it's almost a straight up bolt on deal.

you can bet the world isn't flat so we're not talking about landing jumps or bouncing ruts and bumps on the smooth asphalt. I know for sure when my rear shock is bottomed out my frame is more than 1.5" off the ground i'll have a buddy help me load the shock up and we'll measure the frame height but it's at least a few inches or else i'd be rubbing the ground everytime i hit a big bump or road un level terrain.

I don't think it's rocket science. Put a stiff enough spring on it and you won't have the problem of nailing the airbox. I think JET knows what they're doing and have built rear shocks for the gtt link for many many years. They set the rear up for that xc link and for my fat butt and like i said, airbox doesn't get hit, not at all......now either my machine is amazing or jet suspension knows what the heck their doing. I have heard that gtt keeps their rear shocks pretty soft in fact almost anybody i know with a gtt rear is way too soft.......and with their link, which is why almost all of their kits for the 400's have directions explaining that you should raise the airbox or alter the subframe. That's not the case with my setup, the shock is stiff enough that i don't have the issue of being too soft.

one thing to remember chronic, and this is something JET suspension is all about, is that you have to set the shocks up after you have them built. I did a field day with Nick about a year and a half ago and after they built my rear they tuned it even more the day i was out testing. If you have them do your work they will notify you of when they have these test and tunes and you can go to them. That is the best thing i did for my rear shock. Some people don't consider this but even after a professional company works on them you still need to mess with them and tune them, you can't just mail them off and tell the company your weight and hope everything is peachy. best way to setup suspension is with a professional test and tune.

here's my best advice for you dave. call jet suspension and ask them what they think about a revalve resprung rear shock on a 400ex running the xc link :) then all of your mystery questions will be answered. if they arne't ask your builder how in the world a guy like me can run the gtt xc link without bottoming out, i'm almost certain any good builder is going to have the answer for you. it's shock work, not rocket science, but then again, also not my forte, all i know is my airbox doesn't get smashed, lol.

[chronicsmoke]

I still don't get why you're shock would bottom so damn high.. Especially since your rear end sits lower..
To me your setup sounds exactly like mine did with the stock 400 shock and stock 450r rear end.

It's not a bigger spring that dictates compressed lengths it's the internal shim stacks and spacers..
http://www.gtthunder.com/Suspension.html
That measurement with the 2x4s is #12 and a manditory requirement.

Post a pic up for reference it's awfully peculiar

[2001400exrida]

oh dave, ask your shock builder man, i've told you several times now it's not rocket science. i can certainly post pics and will when i get the time, but you're just going around in circles about this. Fact still remains that the shock setting will control how low or how high your rear end will set. the link also effects this, but not just the link. If you want your compressed legnth to be when the quad is 1.5" off the ground like laz is suggesting, then yes that is what you will have setup for the rear based on that measurement.

what's so peculiar? i think what is peculiar is that you are running a completely seperate link on a long travel rear end and you're trying to compare ride height with my setup which is not an elka link nor is it a long travel suspension. It's a spring rated at 400lbs and valved for me, an original 400ex oem shock that has been setup by a professional. That is most likely the reason my suspension does not allow me to hit the airbox. actually wait, no that is exactly why i don't hit the airbox, because it's not that soft as some are. Now, if you call GTT and tell them you want them to setup your rear shock and also do it for an XC link, oh your air box will bottom out all day long.

[chronicsmoke]

I'm going in circles? I just asked for a picture.. I have asked my shock builder and they are telling me the same thing laz and others on here have said. You're setup sounds completely different than anything else. So just post a pic a settle it.

I think you're running nothing more than a stock 400 shock on the 450r rear end which is what I ran all summer on the 400. So just post a pic and stop running in circles. I'm not going to post anymore, that was a good discussion though ;)

[2001400exrida]

oh ok David sounds like you got it all figured out then I explained in great depth what I'm running and that it does not hit my air box. I can get picture sometime but honestly if you fail to comprehend I don't think it will get us anywhere lol. Who's your shock builder I'll call him and tell him what I have told you. Something tells me he won't find it so damm complicated.

[Blodg]

Chronic, I have the xc link but with the stock 400EX swinger.

rida, you say the 450R swinger is dawn near a straight bolt up. I have done a lot of research and there are a lot of people who have issues with chain alignment and finding the proper linkage. This thread is a perfect example of potential issues with chronic air box hitting and your shock not using the full travel.

[400man]

Chronic, I have the xc link but with the stock 400EX swinger.

rida, you say the 450R swinger is dawn near a straight bolt up. I have done a lot of research and there are a lot of people who have issues with chain alignment and finding the proper linkage. This thread is a perfect example of potential issues with chronic air box hitting and your shock not using the full travel.
exactly what i was thinking. the 450r and 400ex parts look the same but have some small differences

[D Bergstrom]

Put a stiff enough spring on it and you won't have the problem of nailing the airbox.

Chronic, you are on the right track, the above is NOT the way to setup suspension. Well, it will work, but it won't work to its potential. Compressed and extended frame heights are the correct way to do it. Say your frame is set at 1.5" off the ground and you come up with a compressd shock length of 12". If everything is not clear, eventually something will hit, unless the shock is so damn stiff and at that stiffnes, small bump performance will suffer.

I learned alot about suspension setup desert racing my 450R. When I first started racing, I had a setup that was really designed to run 18" mx tires, so my uptravel was limited with 22" rear tires and the rear suspension would let me know it. Any big hit to the rear would send me almost over the bars as the rear would bottom to soon. I ended up going with new parts for more of a desert setup and the differnce was amazing. It really made me believe in uptravel!

I learned even more setting up my TRX250R. I wanted more up-travel out of my stock frame/stock rear linkage, and since I run desert tires (23" front, 22" rear) so getting the frame to 1.5" off the ground is very difficult. I shot for around 2.5" to 3". (Plus if I bolt on 20" tires, my frame won't hit the ground.) Ended up swaping airboxes and doing what I could, anything that was in the way of that swingarm moving up was my focus. Didn't quite get it to where I wanted it, but what I did get was an improvement.

As I said Chronic, you are on the right track. Follow GT Thunder' measuring instructuion and get them to your shock builder. Sure, you may have to settle on only 2" or 2.5" of bottomed out frame height if you can't get stuff out of the way, but will still be a better ride then just making the shock so stiff as not to hit anything. Yes, you do occasionally want your shocks to bottom out. Not hard, but they should bottom. If you never bottom out, then you are not fully using your suspension to its potential.

Doug

[2001400exrida]

Chronic, I have the xc link but with the stock 400EX swinger.

rida, you say the 450R swinger is dawn near a straight bolt up. I have done a lot of research and there are a lot of people who have issues with chain alignment and finding the proper linkage. This thread is a perfect example of potential issues with chronic air box hitting and your shock not using the full travel.

I had no alignment issues. The issue of hitting the air box happens due to the gtt link not due to the 450r rear swinger. What I am saying is that the 400ex rear end with gtt link is what can cause your air box ti hit if you run the stock or too soft of a shock.

The alignment issues are something chronic and myself did not experience. As I said pretty much straight bolt on.

Blodg does your air box bottom out?

[2001400exrida]

I shot for around 2.5" to 3". (Plus if I bolt on 20" tires, my frame won't hit the ground.)

. Sure, you may have to settle on only 2" or 2.5" of bottomed out frame height if you can't get stuff out of the way, but will still be a better ride then just making the shock so stiff as not to hit anything. Yes, you do occasionally want your shocks to bottom out. Not hard, but they should bottom. If you never bottom out, then you are not fully using your suspension to its potential.

Doug

Which is exactly what I said jet did with my shock as I have already mentioned mine frame is around 3" from ground fully compressed. This is how they set it up and I'm glad you understood this Doug. Doesn't matter that you take chronics side what matters is that you quoted me in disagreement but all in all you just explained exactly what I explained. As for small bump performance I haven't noticed mine being bad but if it means I don't have air box clearance issues I am OK with that.

doug you quoted me out of context. this all goes back to how my shock was setup and the proper spring rate and valving is what has kept me from smashing my airbox. if you're going to quote me, quote the whole text. NObody said that the stiffest spring is what makes good suspension.

[Stickman400]

Well, I stopped reading about half way through page 4. This probably won't help at all since I have the XC link and the stock 400 swinger with the rest being 450 stuff, but here's my old behemoth of a thread that we had awhile back when I tried tackling the same type of problem when I was installing a GT link. I didn't have the same problems you guys are having but I did go into depth with how everything needed spaced out and what to do if things didn't clear. Dustin and Marc were about the only ones that stayed with me and helped me when I needed some ideas or opinions. If you don't read it that's fine, just throwing it out there in case you want ideas or see what others have done. I would have figured someone would have thrown my name out there since everyone remembered that thread for the GT link nightmare.

http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?479068-Winter-Rebuild&highlight=winter+rebuild

[chronicsmoke]

As I said Chronic, you are on the right track. Follow GT Thunder' measuring instructuion and get them to your shock builder. Sure, you may have to settle on only 2" or 2.5" of bottomed out frame height if you can't get stuff out of the way, but will still be a better ride then just making the shock so stiff as not to hit anything. Yes, you do occasionally want your shocks to bottom out. Not hard, but they should bottom. If you never bottom out, then you are not fully using your suspension to its potential.

Doug

Thanks Doug, I always pay attention when there are experienced guys talking about suspension. I've taken away some great info from reading your posts too over the years..I don't know everything, in fact I know quite little on the scheme of things.

Then again I don't let on I know everything either, haha.

[chronicsmoke]

Ryan; IF you can post a recent picture of your Jet shock, and GTT link with a paper that has your username and today's date (or a day this week) and can PROVE it's not a stock setup and prove your not bullchitting, I'll dontate some 400ex parts I've been hanging onto for a raffle here. I think you're full of it which is why you've got no idea what you're talking about.

What do you have to loose? Prove me wrong, post that picture.

So far I've got this for a raffle if I'm wrong:
Magnum twin row bearing carrier w/ grease zerk (decent ridable bearings)
at least 1 Uni filter

[2001400exrida]

Oh grow up Dave Jesus Christ. I'll get you a picture but quit being a little sissy. Heres my statement. I run a gtt link with a jet revolve and don't smash the air box. Believe it or not I don't care chronic. Its rocket science to you and you don't believe it I just want others to know if you get your shock setup correctly you don't have to smash the air box while running the gtt xc link. I'm done.

[chronicsmoke]

my hundy runs the XC link, i had my rear shock setup by Jet suspension for my fat butt and it is perfect. I have never tried the MX link on the 400's so I do'nt know how they feel, but I can say my XC link with the 20" xrex tires is a dream compared to stock on the trails. If you're running woods and not hitting huge jumps i'd stick with the XC link. any good shock builder can set you up.

Lmao, my point exactly. Full of chit.

[2001400exrida]

chronic, you clearly have something to prove. I don't. i posted my experience with my gtt link and the jet rear shock that i run. you quoted me and asked more details. i gave them, and you're trying to tell me i'm a liar.......not a productive discussion at any cost. So, in the future, if you ask me questions and then want to call me a liar when i give my answer, maybe just don't ask me questions anymore so we can save the entire forum issues.

Now, i'm going to start a thread to see who else is running the GTT XC link without having airbox issues, apparently it's just something that doesn't happen according to you....well i know i'm not the only boy wonder who is able to get a shock setup to not have these airbox issues.

[chronicsmoke]

Lmao go ahead. But please post a pic of your setup because you are LYING about it.. which isn't a big deal BUT it pretty well confirms the Camaro story is false, and that you never had LSR arms on your YFZ and god knows what else you've been LYING about while giving your word out as gospel to belittle others opinions. I think you wanted to speak up about the GTT linkage because your arch nemisis CJM suggested the MX linkage. Sad behaviour for a 30 year old, I expect the 13 year old kids to lie about their setups..

I don't care about the airbox anymore, If I'm wrong I can accept it. You're a liar lol and I've proven it. ;)

Post a pic with the date of your setup and prove you aren't LYING and somebody here will get some swag on my behalf.

Making that thread is just another mexican hat dance around you're web of LIES.

[2001400exrida]

it takes a real man to call a guy a liar from your keyboard. keep trolling buddy, you're bringing the org BS over and i would appreciate it if you would stop.

[D Bergstrom]

Which is exactly what I said jet did with my shock as I have already mentioned mine frame is around 3" from ground fully compressed. This is how they set it up and I'm glad you understood this Doug. Doesn't matter that you take chronics side what matters is that you quoted me in disagreement but all in all you just explained exactly what I explained. As for small bump performance I haven't noticed mine being bad but if it means I don't have air box clearance issues I am OK with that.

doug you quoted me out of context. this all goes back to how my shock was setup and the proper spring rate and valving is what has kept me from smashing my airbox. if you're going to quote me, quote the whole text. NObody said that the stiffest spring is what makes good suspension.

Here, I quoted the whole thing for you this time. Spring rate and proper valving is NOT what keeps you from smashing you airbox, the correct shock compressed length is. That is the point I am trying to get across. So lets say I set up my suspension and I am hitting my airbox, from my understanding, you are saying to just make the shock stiffer until it no longer hits? Guess, that will work, but it is not the correct way to do it. I will bet money that there is not one good shock builder that will recommend you stiffen your suspension to keep from hitting your airbox. In order to fix the problem the correct way, you need to do one of two things. Extend the compressed length of your shock or move the airbox. There is more to shock setup then just spring rate and valving, compressed and extended lengths are just as important to a proper performing suspension. This has nothing to do with taking Chronics side, you keep saying you want more tech, right? Just trying to get some tech out there, and the correct tech at that.

Speaking of the GT Thunder XC link, I know Chronic said with his frame is 1.5' off the ground, the airbox is getting hit. Has anyone ever measured the XC link bottomed out frame height with the stock shock specs? Maybe with the stock shock and the XC link you can't get to that 1.5" number, so that could be why Ryan is not having any issues with anything hitting.

Doug

[2001400exrida]

Good post Doug. Thanks. I wonder if my shock is a little shorter than the stock 400ex shock then? Which would negate travel but might prevent the air box issue

[chronicsmoke]

Good post Doug. Thanks. I wonder if my shock is a little shorter than the stock 400ex shock then? Which would negate travel but might prevent the air box issue

Not worth arguing with a complusive liar but; if you had a shorter compressed length, you would have more clearence issues with the airbox. Its the same principal on why the XC link would have a shorter compressed length over the MX linkage.
Watching people argue something they have no concept of is priceless..

I think you've tried to avoid posting picture long enough. It should be an easy job, snap a pic and load it to your photobucket and post it here and BAM I look stupid. If anything you should be dying to make me look like an *******.

I've decided if you admit to lying I'll still donate some swag to a 400ex section raffle. I'll even ad my T-shirt from Butter:All Moto Flavor i havent worn yet to the raffle, 'brah'

[CJM]

Id very much like to see pictures still. Wanting to help set a friends 400 up in the same manner if it works.

[2001400exrida]

Not worth arguing with a complusive liar but; if you had a shorter compressed length, you would have more clearence issues with the airbox.

if it's not worth arguing, why are you? see below quote.......now chronic why would you go and call doug a compulsive liar? you should realize i based my assumption on doug's post about shortening the compressed length being a way to help avoid smashing the airbox. I honestly don't know why my airbox doesn't bottom out, he mentioned this being a possible fix of having a shorter compressed legnth, i wondered if that's why mine is the way it is.....fact is it doesn't get smashed, regardless of how many names you call me, lol. Still won't make my airbox hit.


I will bet money that there is not one good shock builder that will recommend you stiffen your suspension to keep from hitting your airbox. In order to fix the problem the correct way, you need to do one of two things. Shorten the compressed length of your shock or move the airbox.
Doug

i'm not avoiding anything chronic, a picture won't show any proof and i'm knee deep on a 450r build right now so the last thing i care about doing is proving to some pothead keyboard warrior that my airbox doesn't bottom out. Also, how on earth can i prove this, simply showing you the shock and link won't show that you would have to see it being ridden or ride it yourself and take a look at the airbox and see it hasn't hit.

Here's my best advice for helping you figure this out chronic. call your shock builder, ask him how Ryan's gtt link with a JET built shock doesn't allow the airbox to bottom out.....see what he says, or better yet, let me call your shock builder, i'll ask him, and i'll report back to you with his answer. Fact is, you know i don't have a professional answer i've tried to give you my setup and description but i can't tell you exactly why it works the way it does, i just know who set my shock up and thats all i can tell you man. You treat this like it's an impossible feat when really it's not dude. If you can't get ahold of your shock builder, just google gtt link on 400ex and you'll see where not everybody has issues bottoming, in fact most that do are runnig the stock shock or a gtt built shock with the link.

[chronicsmoke]

if it's not worth arguing, why are you? see below quote.......now chronic why would you go and call doug a compulsive liar? you should realize i based my assumption on doug's post about shortening the compressed length being a way to help avoid smashing the airbox. I honestly don't know why my airbox doesn't bottom out, he mentioned this being a possible fix of having a shorter compressed legnth, i wondered if that's why mine is the way it is.....fact is it doesn't get smashed, regardless of how many names you call me, lol. Still won't make my airbox hit.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Think about it, with XC tires, the frame hangs lower in relation to the swingarm because its starting ouit an inch higher off the ground, so in order to get back to the same frame height at compressed length, the frame drops a bit lower, closing the gap between the airbox and the swingarm.. You're clueless.

Doug also said you had a stock shock and you agreed with him,,

Speaking of the GT Thunder XC link, I know Chronic said with his frame is 1.5' off the ground, the airbox is getting hit. Has anyone ever measured the XC link bottomed out frame height with the stock shock specs? Maybe with the stock shock and the XC link you can't get to that 1.5" number, so that could be why Ryan is not having any issues with anything hitting.
Doug

whioch would make sense.. youre running a stock rear end and running around talking like a suspension guru when you're clueless.


just google gtt link on 400ex and you'll see where not everybody has issues bottoming, in fact most that do are runnig the stock shock or a gtt built shock with the link..
I bet you've searched google tryign to find a picture to claim as your own which is why I said add the date with your username so you can't cheat..

here's an Idea, Ryan. Post a picture to prove you're not a lying 30 y/o loser who brags about equipment he doesnt have on the interenet to try and discredit somebody elses opinion,

Post a picture and I'll make a member here very happy with free merchandise.. What can you not like about that? You prove me wrong and help out somebody else..

You're just mad I caught you in a LIE and you can't talk your way out of it

[2001400exrida]

i'll say this one more time chronic, i have nothing to prove to you. i tried to give you an explanation. i admitted i was not a professional and that my thoughts on this matter are based on assumptions (i told you to contact the pros). there is nothing more to the fact that i cannot explain why my airbox doesn't hit all i know is i don't have clearance issues and i'm assuming it's directly related to the way my rear shock was setup. Why do you not ask somebody who knows, why do you grill me about my setup and challenge my credibility? you continue to throw out insults and call me names.....i thought it wasn't worth arguing about to you? why do you continue to act like a 2 year old with your insults and name calling, did you get a bad batch of the OG kush? I'll run my setup, you run yours, but don't be a jerkface. enough with the games dave, move on or ask somebody who knows. I dno't have an answer for you.

also, at what point did i run around talking like a suspension guru? hmmm all i did was try my best to explain to you my setup.....it's all i can offer man, not once did i claim to be a suspension guru. unless running a JET schock with an xc link makes me a guru.....if so...sure i'll be a guru.

i literally give 2 horse poops to prove you wrong, it's not what i've been intending to do. as i've said about 4 times now....i have nothing to prove to the chronicsmoke god of suspension keyboard warrior mr. dave kuhn.

[chronicsmoke]

i'll say this one more time chronic, i have nothing to prove to you. i tried to give you an explanation. i admitted i was not a professional and that my thoughts on this matter are based on assumptions (i told you to contact the pros). there is nothing more to the fact that i cannot explain why my airbox doesn't hit all i know is i don't have clearance issues and i'm assuming it's directly related to the way my rear shock was setup. Why do you not ask somebody who knows, why do you grill me about my setup and challenge my credibility? you continue to throw out insults and call me names.....i thought it wasn't worth arguing about to you? why do you continue to act like a 2 year old with your insults and name calling, did you get a bad batch of the OG kush? I'll run my setup, you run yours, but don't be a jerkface. enough with the games dave, move on or ask somebody who knows. I dno't have an answer for you.

also, at what point did i run around talking like a suspension guru? hmmm all i did was try my best to explain to you my setup.....it's all i can offer man, not once did i claim to be a suspension guru. unless running a JET schock with an xc link makes me a guru.....if so...sure i'll be a guru.


This is not about the link and the airbox anymore, this is about your integrity. You're a liar and I've caught you and you won't admit it! At least admit it brah.. it's obvious by now as you've danced around the picture topic since it was mentioned and resorted to name calling (or posting my full name :eek2:). Sad display of character, especially for a 30 year old man,

Post a picture and prove you're not lying then, you seem to be dancing around this. You can't prove it, not that you 'don't want to' you can't because you're a liar that was caught in a web of lies

Thierry @ Stadium
1651 de l'Industrie, Beloeil, QC J3G 4S5
(450) 464-4730

Tell him you're trying to use a stock length shock while maintaining 3-4" frame height during compressed length by running a bigger main spring so you don't have issues hitting your airbox.

Please record the conversation for entertainment purposes.

[Baileygunns]

You have to understand something Dave.... Ryan has something to prove on every topic until he's proven wrong or caught in a lie. Its clear to see he's both wrong and lying in this thread, there for he has nothing to prove to anyone.

It's in the troll hand book... "When backed into corner, play the nothing to prove card."

There you have it Brah.

[D Bergstrom]

Sorry, I was wrong, should be extend the compressed length. That what I get for typing faster then I can think! Will go back and edit my post.

Doug

[CJM]

I know that when I had the setup on my 400ex I had to raise the airbox a little, maybe 1/2-1" I wound up just using some washets between the end of the box and the subframe. But I also had modify the subframe to clear the caliper and space the exhaust out a good bit. There was no way it wasnt gonna hit. I also tried to cheap out and run the 400 shock totally stock. 1 small jump and the caliper bashed right into the exhaust and made a nice dent.

Thats why Im so curious to see how you were able to get it all to work with the 450 swinger and a modified 400 shock. Because the 400 shock is shorter than an 06 450 shock, the 04-05 shock is shorter than the EX shock and the caliper is larger on the 450 and I think sticks further out.

Im trying very hard to help a friend with his 05 400 and we really want to figure it out, so it you could post pictures please? Im not trying to be a jerk, but Id actually like to see what ya got.

[2001400exrida]

Sorry, I was wrong, should be extend the compressed length. That what I get for typing faster then I can think! Will go back and edit my post.

Doug

ok, and again i do apprecaite the tech talk doug. there's nothing worse than when the trolls get in here and don't post anything pertaining to the topic, instead they insult other members. worst part about it is that baileygunns is actually a moderator so you would think he would not contribute to such hatred, but i guess that's how they pick the mods over there on the org.

Ed Bailey (baileygunns), next time you have something to post against me, stop, count to ten, and go poop yourself buddy! Or post something pertaining to the thread at least.....it helps everybody that way.

chronicsmoke.....you talk about integrity with a name like that....whew! I called your shock builder just got off the phone, guess what he said. he said if you don't run the box risers, you can extend the shock length or stiffen the shock, a very nice guy. He also said that is most likely what JET did, he said they probably set the shock overly heavy so it wouldn't crunch the box. i also made mention of you, lol don't worry i just told him you were quite the handful in the sac.

now here's my question chronicsmoke....why couldn't you call him and ask him this, lol? apparently because you're too interested in trying to prove something about myself. now the last thing i'm going to do is feed your little troll fire by giving you what you want. rather i'll let you sit over there with baileygunns and you guys can spank it to how much you love trolling me and how awesome it makes you feel to think you're right on an internet forum. you go girls!

[chronicsmoke]

lmao Ryan just post the picture and prove you're not lying about having the gtt setup.

Thierry & Stadium is the best there is imo, I really hoped you learned something from him. He even emailed me back a few times when he was at an enduro race in Italy a few months back.

I just said you've lost you're integrity because your being dishonest about your experience with equipment.

[Longdong]

Stiffening the rear shock to prevent a clearance problem is not the correct answer. There is more than one way to skin a cat, but some ways are faster and better.

[KKiowaTJ]

Wow, That's was a lot to catch up on.

Reason im going with the mx vs. the xc, The way marc's replies have been since I have been a member here, His throttle is like mine, On/Off with a little clutch and fluttering in between. Yes, It will be more rigid and tougher, But will also lay down the traction vs. absorbing it.

I want speed out of either machine, Laying down the power is the only way to accomplish my goal, Glad ben made clear to have shock and link done at the same time. Saved time, $$ and a headache.
Many posted having to space, Shim, Etc to clear. IMO that's a dysfunctional suspension less the exhaust spacer.

Im going mx either way, But when a chit ton of guys had said problem(s), One against the odd's, Proof is IMO called for. Not saying you hit or have issues, But a pic of it not having the effects is the least you could do to back a story. If I wanted a pic of a mx set up, Im sure I member would post or link a thread that has many.

To each their own, I was just trying to get the gest of what the 'link's' were all about.

[chronicsmoke]

Well spoke;

The MX link would have a longer compressed length, so in theory you'd have less airbox/clearence issues. I have my 450r built to MX specs, but race MX and XC now with it. I do not notice the extra inch of ride height, all I really do is lower my HI/LO speed compressions down to about 0-1/3 from MX settings of 2/3s-full comp.
This is me (wearing a suit, haha) using 100% of the travel.. this is a FT type track and that's the biggest 'jump'. I actually cranked my lo speed up a few clicks after this moto though. (yah I was made into a meme, haha)
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/2783/0bhf.jpg

using MX suspension in XC for my first race (50" wide) and I ended up 7th overall in my class.. I was running 5th until I ran out of gas and got caught in sum ruts as a result on the last lap.. I was so tired it took me 2-3 full minutes to get going again haha.
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/3920/3mqs.jpg


Let us know how it goes Kiowa

[2001400exrida]

Wow, That's was a lot to catch up on.

Reason im going with the mx vs. the xc, The way marc's replies have been since I have been a member here, His throttle is like mine, On/Off with a little clutch and fluttering in between. Yes, It will be more rigid and tougher, But will also lay down the traction vs. absorbing it.

I want speed out of either machine, Laying down the power is the only way to accomplish my goal, Glad ben made clear to have shock and link done at the same time. Saved time, $$ and a headache.
Many posted having to space, Shim, Etc to clear. IMO that's a dysfunctional suspension less the exhaust spacer.

Im going mx either way, But when a chit ton of guys had said problem(s), One against the odd's, Proof is IMO called for. Not saying you hit or have issues, But a pic of it not having the effects is the least you could do to back a story. If I wanted a pic of a mx set up, Im sure I member would post or link a thread that has many.

To each their own, I was just trying to get the gest of what the 'link's' were all about.

check out the xc link thread i started there a couple guys in there with the JET rear shock that aren't bottoming. typically you bottom when you try to use a stock shock with the xc link....and some bottom regardless. Just because everybody says one thing in disagreement to one individual (myself) does not automatically exclude the possibilities. As somebody mentioned in this thread there's many ways to skin a cat. some better than others.

Also, I posted a pic of my rear end, i'm not sure how on earth i could post a pick of it fully loaded except to load the thing up with all kinds of random heavy object which i'm not really interested in doing. Somebody in the thread i started went ahead and did that though and they mention there's clearance left with their setup. What chronic wanted to prove was nothing to do with my airbox clearing, as he mentioned it was more than that he is challenging my integrity, and i have no interest in proving anything to him with that type of mindset. I only posted in your thread to let you know that My setup does not bottom on the airbox, so to say that you can run an XC link and not bottom if you have the shock setup in this fashion. Either way if you're going to run a XC or an MX link, the best money spent will be on getting your shock in tune for the particular link.

[chronicsmoke]

check out the xc link thread i started there a couple guys in there with the JET rear shock that aren't bottoming anymore. typically you bottom when you try to use a stock shock with the xc link....and some bottom regardless.

Also, I posted a pic of my rear end, i'm not sure how on earth i could post a pick of it fully loaded except to load the thing up with all kinds of random heavy object which i'm not really interested in doing. Somebody in the thread i started went ahead and did that though and they mention there's clearance left with their setup. What chronic wanted to prove was nothing to do with my airbox clearing, as he mentioned it was more than that he is challenging my integrity, and i have no interest in proving anything to him. I only posted in your thread to let you know that My setup does not bottom on the airbox, so to say that you can run an XC link and not bottom if you have the shock setup in this fashion. Either way if you're going to run a XC or an MX link, the best money spent will be on getting your shock in tune for the particular link.

Hahaha you're so full of chit.. I have proven is you're a liar with no credibility. Which you are because you can't prove you're setup that you've clearly been lying about. And now won't admit it. I think it would be good to bring to light the kind of person that is involved in every argument thread and spews info that he has no concept of as gospel.

Also, 400man said he had about a 1/2" of shaft travel which usually equates to 1" of wheel travel (Based on the average 2:1 leverage ratios) so he might still be bottoming out if he finishes travel, I don't know, but he was very productive in the conversation and even posted pictures to reference. You should take his example. I'm also pretty confident I've been correct in all statements I've made so far, you have been wrong almost every time, but try and twist the words around so you correct..

The picture your referencing above is the picture you posted earlier and was a stock rear end (no linkage or rebuilt shock). Unless that's you confession to being a pathological liar.....

Post your pictures of your JET shock and GTT linkage, and I will donate some stuff to a Forum Raffle..

The Raffle Includes;

1 400ex oil filter
1 Uni 400ex Air filter (used but still in great condition)
1 brand new Butter:all Moto Flavored T-Shirt
1 Magnum dual row bearing carrier

All you have to do is posty that picture, save your integrity AND credibility (which I presume is non existant) and somebody gets those 4 items frome me FREE shipped to their door.

Keep twisting our words all you want, it;s not a substitute for picture proof that your not a liar, you've been nothing but dodging my request for 5 pages!!. Keep posting so this thread stays on top :)

[2001400exrida]

update: i just called dave "chronicsmoke" because i figured i'd try to talk this out over the phone with him. funniest thing he answers and all i hear is swear words and homosexual references then hangs up. it reminded me of a person with turrets syndrome..... are you not man enough to talk this out over the phone dave? must you hide behind the keyboard. you've got my return number, just gimme a call rather than act like a 2 year old and troll relentlessly. nice sig too btw, but really are we so immature you can't be a man and talk on the phone?

[chronicsmoke]

You called me 4 times in a row while I was working. I excused myself to answer and whi is it? Ryan trying to ask me on a date. When I said no you flipped.

I can't see the picture of you're GTT and JET setup over the phone which is the only thing that can save your reputation. You sound like a prepubesent teen on the phone too lmao.



Post your pictures of your JET shock and GTT linkage, and I will donate some stuff to a Forum Raffle..

The Raffle Includes;

1 400ex oil filter
1 Uni 400ex Air filter (used but still in great condition)
1 brand new Butter:all Moto Flavored T-Shirt
1 Magnum dual row bearing carrier

All you have to do is posty that picture, save your integrity AND credibility (which I presume is non existant) and somebody gets those 4 items frome me FREE shipped to their door.

[2001400exrida]

why didn't you talk with me dave? it's very evident you're not willing to hash this out, instead you want to hide behind the keyboard....come on dave let's talk, i won't ask you on a date i promise.

just goes to show your maturity level, if i sound like a prebuscent teen i don't even know where to start with your jibber jabber homo insult talk that was actually funny.....yell insults like a maniac and then hang up, ha. then when i asked if you were ok, you just sat there silently kind of creepy style....i really hope everythings ok cuz it sounded like you were going to blow a gasket.

i truly cannot think of one person besides a 16 year old who would act like that over the phone.....i figured you at least had some maturity in there dave. So i guess the forums are the only place you can actually be functional? in real life it's just out of control dave huh?

[chronicsmoke]

Lmao just keep this thread up top, I like it

Lol what are you going to say on the phone? "Please stop, you're hurting my feelings?" You're still dancing around the fact that you are a LIAR.

Maybe you shouldn't make false claims to try and prove people wrong. What do you have against privng your case? You posted pics to prove Alanbmx wrong.. where is the differece?

I just want to give away some gear I'm not using. What do you have against a forum raffle?

Post your pictures of your JET shock and GTT linkage, and I will donate some stuff to a Forum Raffle..

The Raffle Includes;

1 400ex oil filter
1 Uni 400ex Air filter (used but still in great condition)
1 brand new Butter:all Moto Flavored T-Shirt
1 Magnum dual row bearing carrier

All you have to do is posty that picture, save your integrity AND credibility (which I presume is non existant) and somebody gets those 4 items frome me FREE shipped to their door.

[2001400exrida]

What do you have against privng your case? You posted pics to prove Alanbmx wrong.. where is the differece?





i did prove myself against alan and look what happened, nothing got better, in fact more people chimed in.. I'm not interested in doing this because it won't solve anything chronic. What will solve our issue is if you can become a man and talk over the phone. If you would actually talk to me you might find out what i'm going to say on the phone. i'll garuntee it's not "please stop, you're hurting my feelings?". You're once again making assumptions. I'm not dancing around anything, i'm going straight to you the best way possible, mono e mono......rather than through the interwebz you tough keyboard warrior you. i'll call ya later sugar, be ready to talk rather than coward behind the monitor.

[chronicsmoke]

**** you're quite the ballerina!!

How is discussing anything on the ophone going to prove to the forum that the most annoying member is not a complulsive lying phony?

Mono E mono is me and you, I want everyone to see the truth. I will talk to you on the phone but I still fail to see what you wish to accomplish other than getting verbally harrassed by me. I don't like you and my attitude over the phone will not change.

Now, you're making a simple request quite tedious. Just post the picture! You're making a fool of yourself and it is absolutely hilarious.
Post your pictures of your JET shock and GTT linkage, and I will donate some stuff to a Forum Raffle..

The Raffle Includes;

1 400ex oil filter
1 Uni 400ex Air filter (used but still in great condition)
1 brand new Butter:all Moto Flavored T-Shirt
1 Magnum dual row bearing carrier

All you have to do is posty that picture, save your integrity AND credibility (which I presume is non existant) and somebody gets those 4 items frome me FREE shipped to their door.

[Scro]

Chronicsmoke and 2001400exrida are gone for the week. Maybe they will take that time and find their maturity. If there's anybody else that needs help finding their maturity, I'll be glad to give you them time.