SO, what's your thoughts on the "proposed" changes on National Classes?

[Logan #34's Dad]

The ATVA has made a few changes to some classes for the 2014 race season.
I've been told the changes are:
#1 Dropped the Supermini age to 12(instead of 13)
#2 Changed the Schoolboy Sr. structure: 14 to 17yo - IF your 14yo you can only run up to 400cc/15yo and above can run a production 450cc.
#3 FOR 2015 riders will only be able to race a CVT till they are 12yo then are forced to move to a shifter.
#4 They removed one 450 class from each division (A,B,C) - Now only 3 classes for each group.
#5 Top finishing ProAm riders(unsure what place and up) from 2013 and the top (unknown number) in points as the year goes on CANNOT go back down to the A classes.

If anyone knows of any other changes - post for discussion.

My take:
#1 - Great Idea
#2 - Kinda weird, Why build a 400cc at all for one year. I think that since the 300ex is being phased out, why not make the Schoolboy Jr. class the 400cc class? Could the new 250 mods with dirtbike motors keep up with a Z400? OR... just remove the 14 year olds from Schoolboy Sr. and make it a young 450 class. The idea is to allow these advanced 15 year olds to ride a 450 BUT maintain their "youth" status to be able to still race the 250 mod class OR 90 mod/Supermini ect.
#3 - Not a bad idea - a 15 year old needs to be on a shifter
#4 - Great Idea
#5 - Not sure on this rule.. If it's like the top 5 to 8 in points.. It sounds like their thinking is: Villopoto or Dungy is not allowed to drop back to A class for Loretta's.. However, ProAm is NOT Pro.

[Sandsjbyz22]

On #5. What is Brett supposed to do? I don't think he will be old enough for Pro yet with the 18 year old rule correct?

[Ryko racing]

On #5. What is Brett supposed to do? I don't think he will be old enough for Pro yet with the 18 year old rule correct?

We did attend the meeting and I for one thought it was pretty positive. ( Although the numbers were lower than I thought would be there).

I think for the most part the changes make sense for most riders. ( obviously they can t build a class that everyone can win.)

I think an option for the PRO AM RIDERS under 18 could be to have an OPEN A or Expert class. ( any rider Pro Am or Amatuer class age (16 or older) can run it. That would give everyone extra seat time as they progress in their racing careers plus it would allow a rider to compare them selves to the faster class.) Just an idea.

[ontargetracing]

#3 I am not sure 12 is the age.. they can race a 70 until they are 12. I think at least 13, maube even 14 for the CVT class cap.

[Logan #34's Dad]

On #5. What is Brett supposed to do? I don't think he will be old enough for Pro yet with the 18 year old rule correct?

Brett turns 18 in November...

[Logan #34's Dad]

I think an option for the PRO AM RIDERS under 18 could be to have an OPEN A or Expert class. ( any rider Pro Am or Amatuer class age (16 or older) can run it. That would give everyone extra seat time as they progress in their racing careers plus it would allow a rider to compare them selves to the faster class.) Just an idea.

I think that is a great idea...did you state that in the meeting? The bottom line here is those who NEED to run for contingency money. If at best they are a 6th place rider in a higher division they will not be able to collect that money...but in the next lower division they can be top 3, they can. So, it comes down to what point position and up cannot drop back into an A class....?

[roth450]

On #2, does this mean that a 15yo can run a 450 in the schoolboy sr class with the 400's? Or will there be a seperate schoolboy sr 450 class? Or can a 15yo run in the 450c class or above? Either way, we just built a 400 for 2014 and my son will be 15 in 2014. Glad these are "proposed" changes. Because if we just spent all that money building the wrong quad.......wow.......no wonder we can't build this sport. Just when you think you have a machine that can run more than 1 year they make it obsolete.

[Logan #34's Dad]

On #2, does this mean that a 15yo can run a 450 in the schoolboy sr class with the 400's? Or will there be a seperate schoolboy sr 450 class? Or can a 15yo run in the 450c class or above? Either way, we just built a 400 for 2014 and my son will be 15 in 2014. Glad these are "proposed" changes. Because if we just spent all that money building the wrong quad.......wow.......no wonder we can't build this sport. Just when you think you have a machine that can run more than 1 year they make it obsolete.
As it was explained to me, The 400's and the 450's will race together... 14 year olds on 400's and 15 through 17 yo on 450's... So, if your rider is 15...you may have built the wrong quad..
I think this is the dumbest rule that came out of the meeting. Just take the 14 year olds out of the Sr class...problem solved.

[Ryko racing]

As it was explained to me, The 400's and the 450's will race together... 14 year olds on 400's and 15 through 17 yo on 450's... So, if your rider is 15...you may have built the wrong quad..
I think this is the dumbest rule that came out of the meeting. Just take the 14 year olds out of the Sr class...problem solved.

Hey Rocky, I am trying to find in the rule book where it states that a YOUTH RIDER CANNOT RACE A YOUTH CLASS AND AN AMATUER ADULT CLASS. HELP???

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Rocky, I am trying to find in the rule book where it states that a YOUTH RIDER CANNOT RACE A YOUTH CLASS AND AN AMATUER ADULT CLASS. HELP???
That's what they are adding... a "youth" 450 class...age 15 to 17... this allows the 15 going on 16 to ride youth and a 450 class to prepare for when he/she is 16. The difference being once you actually turn 16 and go to 450C,B,A...your racing against any age rider.

[t.hale17]

They are also droping 50ss. That didn't bother me since cobra does not even sell a full runn quad any more. I am actually in favor of aged group cc classes. Such as
50 4-6
50 6-8
70 8-11
90 9-13
And so on. These are no my class and age recomdations just examples. By the quad that fits you n run it. Just my $.02

[camsdad]

Are they still running both pro-am motos on Sunday?if so this may be the best news I've heard,if we can only run pro-am I won't have to show up until Saturday ,I'll save Friday practice,and Friday gate fee :)

[Logan #34's Dad]

Are they still running both pro-am motos on Sunday?if so this may be the best news I've heard,if we can only run pro-am I won't have to show up until Saturday ,I'll save Friday practice,and Friday gate fee :)

Classic right there! Glass is half full...

[LT80]

#3 sucks. What about a parent that can not or will not spend 20k on a shifter?!
Those parents will have to do like I thought ya all should have done long ago:::: Go local racing and save countless thousands of dollars.

[G4racing]

#3 sucks. What about a parent that can not or will not spend 20k on a shifter?!
Those parents will have to do like I thought ya all should have done long ago:::: Go local racing and save countless thousands of dollars.

Ill have to disagree with you. I have 5k less in our shifter than our cvt. and dint spend a dime this year on fixing our shifter. A 2fast cylinder alone is $1500.

[Keith J]

Ill have to disagree with you. I have 5k less in our shifter than our cvt. and dint spend a dime this year on fixing our shifter. A 2fast cylinder alone is $1500.

I can't wait to get out of CVTs. Only 5 more years...hahaha

[rageatvsupermom]

It is not going to matter, there will always be someone unhappy about something. The CVT's are the devil and to allow a kid to ride one past even 10 is hurting the rider.
Very few riders can make the transition from a CVT to shifter smoothly and be competitive.

[ontargetracing]

Don't forget not every kid is a "national racer" most local orgs and of course all of the local AMA districts usually mirror the same rules. There is already a poor mini turnout at most local events and I think a rule change lowering the age limit on cvt's would be very detrimental to the sport.

[LT80]

Don't forget not every kid is a "national racer" most local orgs and of course all of the local AMA districts usually mirror the same rules. There is already a poor mini turnout at most local events and I think a rule change lowering the age limit on cvt's would be very detrimental to the sport.
Exactly. Thank you.

[skyeryder]

Ill have to disagree with you. I have 5k less in our shifter than our cvt. and dint spend a dime this year on fixing our shifter. A 2fast cylinder alone is $1500.

Agree with that shifters are cheaper than CVT's now no doubt. I like the rule, some of these kids are hanging on to the CVT too long. I also don't believe these CVTs should be allowed in the shifter/mod classes not real fair to these kids working there butts off to learn how to shift.
Only downside like stated it could hurt local racing...

[neveready]

Most local district organizers could care less about quads… They always mirror the AMA rules yes, but folks remember these proposed changes are for the atva MX series not AMA rules. The AMA class structure is quite different than what we see. Please refer to the AMA 2013 rulebook on pages 170-174. According to the AMA these classes MUST be offered at an AMA event. But, also according to the AMA a 15 yr old is eligible to race as a amateur on a 450 and the AMA rules also state that a youth rider can also enter a class as an amateur on the same machine as long as they meet age and cc requirements. Folks don't be fooled and told it's the AMA that is at fault, it's clearly the ATVPG that is making our calls!! They aren't even obeying the set rules of an AMA event! So before we go questioning and poking around what we think… Maybe we should really know!!!

[G4racing]

Kevin,
What did they decide on the 70 open class? No cvts? I had to leave in the middle of that debate.

[mkeane]

I believe how the 70's where left was 70cvt 70 shifter only and 70 open where both could run

[Keith J]

I see no reason why local rules could not allow CVT's up to however old the series wanted and adjust the national rules to bring down the age limit on CVT's..

Having said that, how much fun would a class be full of 90 cvt motors on full size frames (I.E. 300ex).. Rules are you have to have a kid that races and you can't race MX yourself...

[neveready]

Kevin,
What did they decide on the 70 open class? No cvts? I had to leave in the middle of that debate.

It never really went anywhere because no one could just keep it simple, they all had to throw in too many variables that had nothing to do with the simple suggestion. The room was filled with a lot of emotion and not quite as much on the side of facts to support the ideas although some were very good and some were just about what is good for them.

Too many people look at all this the wrong way. We all obviously want whats best for our children and want them all to be winners, but we have to remember what this is, not just for us but for everyone involved in the inside and in all areas of the sport. Also remember that to many this is a multi-million dollar business and has to be ran as such. There are employees, executives, chairpersons, and many many others including the dealers, vendors, engine builders, aftermarket suppliers and sponsors feeding their families from the decisions that are made behind the scenes. To those folks this is no game, and most of their pay and livelihood does not matter on how many classes we have, what the last years results were, but simply about rider and spectator turnout. To us this is fun, this is a sport, an activity and yes it's expensive but that's a choice we make when we commit to this level of racing. But, we can walk away, we go home to our lives at the end of the weekend only worried about where our rider placed and how we can either maintain that lead or catch the guy in front of us or even how we can afford to. But, to the others that have to make these decisions and who have to put this together and have to move this traveling circus from state to state this is life and how they make it...

Most kids don't even understand what the significance is to this level of racing because it's the only place we get to race and anyone who meets age and machine requirements can just simply sign up for whatever event they walk into. Wanna test my thoughts? without pulling up the results go ask your kid who last years top 3 riders were in a few classes, or even ask yourself. To them it's just a race, it's us as the parents more worried about that piece of wood or the bragging rights about "my kid" so we all want a class that our kid can win...but we can't have 155 classes at the national level. This is the premier, the top, the NFL or MLB or NHL of the atv mx world!! This is not little league where every kid plays the game and we are all winners no matter what!! It is hardcore racing, and also huge life lessons about reality to these children as long as we as parents are responsible and also humble enough to let them understand that. I always hear folks saying they can't race local races because they have no competition, then complain when they show up at the nationals and get beat?? There can only be one champion per class, and we need to appreciate the work, and talent that it takes to accomplish that feat.

Oh, and by the way...Money doesn't buy championships so quit lying to your kids that they got beat because someone else has more money!! You will only teach them to personally resent success and that it's ok that they performed mediocre because the other guy has more money instead of teaching them that we have to train harder, think harder, and try harder the next time. We do that because we are parents and cannot stand to see our kids let down and we may not have the money the others have so instead of teaching them the right lesson from it we teach them that "we can't beat the guy who has more money". Money can buy better equipment, better training, and a lot of intimidation but cannot create talent, heart, motivation and that burning desire to win no matter what you have to do! You all will probably disagree about that but I know it for 100% fact and its easy to prove when you look through the results over the last several years. I have watched several people pour unlimited amounts of money into it and still never win a championship. I have also met some of the most talented riders on the planet that have never had many of lives finer things and luxuries. Some of these riders cannot even afford to race the nationals, but they are out there!!

This is simply my thoughts, my opinion, and my personal feelings about the sport that I love. I am by no means trying to tell anyone how to live or how to raise their family. I am simply stating things in my perspective based on my experiences and on the facts that I have learned from those experiences. I wish everyone a happy and safe season!! Enjoy it, because one day your kid will grow up and look you in the eyes and tell you they don't want to race any longer or that they don't want to commit to all the races because of school, work, and other things that they feel are more important. Then you will realize what you were really racing for all the years.....

I'm Kevin Meyer and I approve this message!!!

[Logan #34's Dad]

I have to agree with every last word stated.....

[rageatvsupermom]

It never really went anywhere because no one could just keep it simple, they all had to throw in too many variables that had nothing to do with the simple suggestion. The room was filled with a lot of emotion and not quite as much on the side of facts to support the ideas although some were very good and some were just about what is good for them.

Too many people look at all this the wrong way. We all obviously want whats best for our children and want them all to be winners, but we have to remember what this is, not just for us but for everyone involved in the inside and in all areas of the sport. Also remember that to many this is a multi-million dollar business and has to be ran as such. There are employees, executives, chairpersons, and many many others including the dealers, vendors, engine builders, aftermarket suppliers and sponsors feeding their families from the decisions that are made behind the scenes. To those folks this is no game, and most of their pay and livelihood does not matter on how many classes we have, what the last years results were, but simply about rider and spectator turnout. To us this is fun, this is a sport, an activity and yes it's expensive but that's a choice we make when we commit to this level of racing. But, we can walk away, we go home to our lives at the end of the weekend only worried about where our rider placed and how we can either maintain that lead or catch the guy in front of us or even how we can afford to. But, to the others that have to make these decisions and who have to put this together and have to move this traveling circus from state to state this is life and how they make it...

Most kids don't even understand what the significance is to this level of racing because it's the only place we get to race and anyone who meets age and machine requirements can just simply sign up for whatever event they walk into. Wanna test my thoughts? without pulling up the results go ask your kid who last years top 3 riders were in a few classes, or even ask yourself. To them it's just a race, it's us as the parents more worried about that piece of wood or the bragging rights about "my kid" so we all want a class that our kid can win...but we can't have 155 classes at the national level. This is the premier, the top, the NFL or MLB or NHL of the atv mx world!! This is not little league where every kid plays the game and we are all winners no matter what!! It is hardcore racing, and also huge life lessons about reality to these children as long as we as parents are responsible and also humble enough to let them understand that. I always hear folks saying they can't race local races because they have no competition, then complain when they show up at the nationals and get beat?? There can only be one champion per class, and we need to appreciate the work, and talent that it takes to accomplish that feat.

Oh, and by the way...Money doesn't buy championships so quit lying to your kids that they got beat because someone else has more money!! You will only teach them to personally resent success and that it's ok that they performed mediocre because the other guy has more money instead of teaching them that we have to train harder, think harder, and try harder the next time. We do that because we are parents and cannot stand to see our kids let down and we may not have the money the others have so instead of teaching them the right lesson from it we teach them that "we can't beat the guy who has more money". Money can buy better equipment, better training, and a lot of intimidation but cannot create talent, heart, motivation and that burning desire to win no matter what you have to do! You all will probably disagree about that but I know it for 100% fact and its easy to prove when you look through the results over the last several years. I have watched several people pour unlimited amounts of money into it and still never win a championship. I have also met some of the most talented riders on the planet that have never had many of lives finer things and luxuries. Some of these riders cannot even afford to race the nationals, but they are out there!!

This is simply my thoughts, my opinion, and my personal feelings about the sport that I love. I am by no means trying to tell anyone how to live or how to raise their family. I am simply stating things in my perspective based on my experiences and on the facts that I have learned from those experiences. I wish everyone a happy and safe season!! Enjoy it, because one day your kid will grow up and look you in the eyes and tell you they don't want to race any longer or that they don't want to commit to all the races because of school, work, and other things that they feel are more important. Then you will realize what you were really racing for all the years.....

I'm Kevin Meyer and I approve this message!!!

I agree and have tried to explain this to many and it never gets absorbed. I am hoping they are on a better track to make this more affordable but we shall see.

[G4racing]

Thanks Kevin. I can't agree more. I will say I was pleasantly surprised with the meeting. I had never attended one before and was under the impression that I would just be sitting in and watching. I had no idea how much input we parents had. So if anyone has any complaints about this series they should plan on sticking around for that meeting next year.

[Ryko racing]

That was very well said. Lets race.

[sepesi]

Kevin Meyer, please run for president! I will vote for you. Finally something worth reading. Braap!!

[Keith J]

Enjoy it, because one day your kid will grow up and look you in the eyes and tell you they don't want to race any longer or that they don't want to commit to all the races because of school, work, and other things that they feel are more important. Then you will realize what you were really racing for all the years.....

I'm Kevin Meyer and I approve this message!!!

I think about this piece of it all the time. My daughter is 6 yrs old and I wonder when that day will come. All I can hope is that it comes at the end of a season or right before she moves up classes. If it doens't, then oh well, what can you do. I often think about why we really do it. To be brutally honest, unless something very big changes, it is all just for fun... Maybe one or two of our kids will ever make it to the top level and earn a living out of it. MAYBE. My kid has about 10 million to one odds...
I do agree with the life lessons that can be taught from the sport. They are the ones that will get you through life.

[hornet]

so.... does anyone know when and where they're going to post these proposed class changes? I was at the meeting and under the impression they were going to post them soon. It has been 15 days now and nothing. Then they said they were going to see what kind of comments they had and go from there and how long will that take? As for us little guys that build our own quad, work 65 plus hours weekly, coach other sports in the evenings and on weekends time is getting scarce for the 2014 season!!!!

[#404's Dad]

I'm thinking 2 Wheels is sounding pretty damn good lately :grr:

[Logan #34's Dad]

I'm thinking 2 Wheels is sounding pretty damn good lately :grr:

Heck yeah.... Harley Davidson! ALL CHROMED OUT!

[hornet]

I' ve been down the Harley Davidson road!!! It was a lot of fun to say the least!!! Then kids and chose to do the family thing. I'm starting to think this racing bit is a lot more stressful!!!

[Logan #34's Dad]

I sold my Harley, '70 Monte Carlo, and MY quad and who knows what else along the way. All so my son can win a wooden plaque.... ugg. Negative Nellie! Lol

[jake55]

classes are posted.

[#404's Dad]

classes are posted.

Yep and in my opinion what a mess with the 90 classes.

[Collin88]

Dropped 50 open class.

[Logan #34's Dad]

IMO, the most "messed up" class is this new Schoolboy Sr. class.... They have all but made the 400cc machines obsolete. Who's gonna puts the thousands into a 400 for the rider to only ride it for one year...and against 450's?
I believe they plan to phase out the Honda 300 (plus Honda no longer produces it) and make that classes slot the 250 mod class... why not keep the Sr. class as it was and create a 15/16yo 450 D class with quad type restrictions such as stock engine...or something along those lines...

[ontargetracing]

The cvt age rule is also in the rules. Gotta love the yearly changing rules and class structures. Wonder if the cvt rule will change for next year before it ever gets implemented.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I will say....I wish they would always forworn the people a year in advance for upcoming changes. If during the season they see something that can and will be fixed for the following year...tell people then and let the debate start then so no one is surprised and can preplan.

[05grizz]

So theres a 50 limited class no cvt. so what can be ran in the class besides cobras.

[Cobra50Dad]

Looks to me to be the same class as the 50 single speed, just a different name! They are keeping the cobras and DRRs split

[Cobra50Dad]

Looks to me to be the same class as the 50 single speed, just a different name! They are keeping the cobras and DRRs split

[nastynotchback1]

This year will be our first year at shifting.So i start looking at the classes we will be best fitted for and i find 5 classes his bike will fit in.Why do they need so many shifter classes?I see they just added a new one this year.90 shifter 8-15.

[bigdaddy77]

It seems the 90 shifter class is the same as 90 open (90 mod) . It replaces the 90 Limited class which was a production class but was basically a Cobra class because the 125 cc fourstroke wont hang with the Cobra. My biggest complaint is the 125cc four stroke class went from split age group 8-11 12-15 to a straight 8-15 yearold class. I know numbers weren't great for this class last year but it was its 1st year. Hell at Lorettas there was 13 riders in the 8-11 class. Just doesn't seem fair to the young kids , check lap times all the older kids laps were a good 10 seconds faster. Also they ran a double gate drop so 2 age classes doesn't eat up more than a few minutes of time.

[roth450]

We are one of those in the schoonlboy sr classs. And we have spent thousands on our 400 for next year. And now we get to race against 450's. Thats just screwed up. Guess we should have just skipped half the season and built a 450. These decisions are costing us lots of $$$$$$$$. I am so irritated! We thought we we're finally getting into a class with a level playing field, not who could afford the best upgrades. The 450's need their own class. I think there needs to be a set of rules adopted for changing national rules. Put into place the 5 yr rule. Once your change a class in anyway, add or delete a class, it cannot be altetered or removed for 5 yrs. Thay way they really have to think about how a decision affects the sport over the long term. These annual, so often you can't keep up with them, changes are killing this sport. And costing us a lot of $$$$$$. When your racing this year, you can't set your sites on next year and do any planning because most likely the class your in won't exist anymore or you with have to spend $$$$$ for next years upgrades which you may not be able to afford. Someone should look at the last 5 yrs at how many classes have come and gone, and what a class used to look like and the way it looks today. I am betting that a machine built as little as 5 yrs ago, cannot find a class today for it to be competitive in. I think you'll find that a machine built 5 yrs ago has a significant $$$$ difference of those built today. We finally finally finally got out of the mini classes, and it looks like the rule changing game just followed us into this one. Sorry, had to b##ch a little, just very frustrated.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Roth,
Send an email to info@atvmotocross.com and voice your concerns....
I like your idea of not messing with a class for a specific time. 5 years may be too much though. I could see 3 years...I base that on most kids outgrow classes within 3 years...
In my perfect world... 3 year stay on rules with a 1 year rule change warning(if the class is going to be changed - we must be told 1 year ahead).

[Collin88]

Seems kinda odd that 70 or 90 cvt & shifter can run two classes.
But a 50 cvt or ss only has one. I hope I'm wrong.

[skyeryder]

I'm thinking 2 Wheels is sounding pretty damn good lately :grr:


Just bought 2 KTM 65's one is a SXS have less in them than one mod quad, plus I know what classes they offer and shouldn't change. We have officially switched...... Sad day for me as I always raced quads but this series is SAD!!!!! We're out...

[otteboys]

Lol. I just did that exact same thing, got a '10 and '13 KTM 65's for my youngest son for far less than what I had into 1 mini quad. It's gonna be different, we have been racing quads for 6 years but quad numbers have been dropping so much in our district that it didn't make sense to spend all that money to go race with 1 or 2 other kids. My oldest son is gonna stick with quads 1 more year on a 450 and see how it goes. I've got a nice JB 90 Mod for sale if anyone is looking.

[jay-r]

We are out too. Riding a kx85 now. Got a really nice cobra 70ss to sell.