What makes a honda 450 fast on the trails, power, rider, or suspension

[2001400exrida]

Sure all of these factor in, but I've seen way too many people claiming power when it comes to woods racing. Anybody that has ever run a GNCC knows it's not about power. Woods racing is more about suspension tuning and rider capability. I was reading today where a guy was making claims that he's the fastest on his trails with stock suspension because he has port work. In my experience, the fastest trail riders and GNCC guys that i see when i'm racing are due to rider capability and the way they have their machine chassie setup. 60hp won't do you any good in a woods race if you don't have the suspension and skill to back up. Now if we're talking drag racing or oval track sure, power will win. I just hate when I read people talking about how fast they "think" they are on the trail simply because they have port work or a jacked up motor. A good rider could run a stock motor with the right suspension and would whoop any motor with stock suspension. You have to have experience to know this. What do you guys think....does power win the GNCC or XC races? Or is suspension and rider skilll more important.

Just curious, the thread i was reading today had me really wondering what in the world some of these people are thinking if they honestly believe that power wins in the woods......figured i would ask the smart community over here to see what you folks thought. I know many of us ride and race rather than sit behind the computer so there should be beneficial input.

[Scro]

A couple years ago, I really wouldn't even consider GNCC as cross country. It seemed like 1/2 the track was in a field...that's not cross country to me. On tracks like that, motor is more of an advantage than it is in a true harescramble where you are rubbing tires on trees. Suspension will help any rider in any class. Motor work will always help a fast rider in a fast class, but only sometimes help a slower rider in a slow class.

[2001400exrida]

I hear ya Scro. I did one down in Southern Illinois and compared to the woods races here, that course was wide open! Most of my local XC races are hare scrambles and have always been well setup courses with plenty of obstacles in the way, requiring good suspension and good riding skill to get around these, literally not a motor race at all. I feel that no matter what the motor work, with stock suspension a rider will always be held back, these things just handle like rack wagons in stock trim.

I guess what i'm saying is that I would much rather have a stock motor and the proper suspension and chassis, than vis versa with a powerful motor and stock chassis. power is the last priority to me when it comes to woods racing.

[fastredrider44]

I'd say the break down is Rider, Suspension, then power. Sure, you can go faster with more power, but if you can't keep your bike on the ground or in a straight line, what's the point? Also, you have to have manageable power.

[Logan #34's Dad]

I'd say the break down is Rider, Suspension, then power. Sure, you can go faster with more power, but if you can't keep your bike on the ground or in a straight line, what's the point? Also, you have to have manageable power.

Your last statement is key. At the top level..... you'll need them all. But a 60hp MX motor will not be as good as a GNCC purpose built motor that makes 52hp. The right porting and cam for smooth power would whoop a harsh powered engine in the woods.

[ridered32]

Your last statement is key. At the top level..... you'll need them all. But a 60hp MX motor will not be as good as a GNCC purpose built motor that makes 52hp. The right porting and cam for smooth power would whoop a harsh powered engine in the woods.

IMO in xc all you need for motor work is porting and a cam. I don't understand why someone who is or wants to race xc will do motor work before suspension work. A good suspension set up with a stock motor will make you faster long before a built motor and stock suspension will.

[2001400exrida]

Exactly! Anytime i see a woods racer with stock suspension claiming they're faster than all their friends because they have motor work, i just want to shout at them! Suspension is a must have and no matter how much motor your have the suspension is going to improve lap times over a fast motor. At least in the trails that is. Especially on these honda's the stock shocks are so rigid.