GTT head stud installation?

[Drifterboy3]

Hey guys I'm planning on getting a 440 and plan on getting some GTT head studs for piece of mind. So how hard is the install is this something that need to be sent out or could I drill and tap myself?

[CJM]

Needs to be done by a machine shop.

[2001400exrida]

I've installed several sets of these. It says that it's best to have a machine shop do it, but if you have a vertical mill at your exposure or a drill press then you can do it. You do not need a machine shop if you are handy with tools.

Here's the GTT instructions that i used to do mine.

Installation Instructions

You need to first drill and tap the cylinder to accept the new studs.

Hole machining

7/16-inch course thread. Drill holes with a 3/8 inch bit. It is always best to have a machine shop do this procedure in a vertical mill to ensure proper alignment.

Be sure to hone cylinder after studs are installed.

Install the new studs using Permatex sleeve retainer on the threads.

Be sure to install to the correct height.

The studs must be the correct distance out of the top of the cylinder.

Front – 2.436”

Rear – 3.188”

Sides – 1.929”

[CJM]

^ Ya know. I know your just saying it to contradict me cause your a jerk and always right no matter what. OP dont listen to this guy please, he had a huge thread about cutting his tie rods down on another forum where he was clueless about something so simple...and now he claims he can install head studs???

Ryan you need to stop lying.

Im also quoting it so you cant edit it out...


I've installed several sets of these. It says that it's best to have a machine shop do it, but if you have a vertical mill at your exposure or a drill press then you can do it. You do not need a machine shop if you are handy with tools.

[2001400exrida]

rough morning CJM? Call GTT they have instructions on their site and they'll talk to you about what it takes to install these. I've done this to 2 machines of mine. It's really not as hard as some make it out to be. YOu have to be careful and you want to be sure that the holes are lined up just right, but it's not rocket science. Any machinist can do it and if you have access to the right tools like i do, it's not hard.

OP, if you think you might have the know how, just call Laz he'll walk you right through it, they have no problem telling people how to do this procedure.

CJM - i do not appreciate being called a liar.

[Fix29]

I sent mine to GT Thunder and had them do it just for the peace of mind. The turn around time was very quick and if I remember correctly it wasn't all that expensive to just have them do the install.

[2001400exrida]

^^^no, they dont' charge much to install them, it's like a 20 min. job for laz.

[400man]

I had my brother install mine.....he works at a machine shop though and went to school for machine work and cnc stuff. he just went by the install instructions that came with the studs.

if my brother never offered to do it, I was just gonna send my cylinder to gtt and let them install em and have it done right,

[chronicsmoke]

I would not tackle this myself.. I could very well do it but what if I don't drill it straight or drill too deep? To me it's a cheap piece of mind to have it done by a professional. The process isn't hard by anymeans but what you're after here is precision.

I'd leave it to a machinest.. you have him can cut your tie rods on the same trip and kill two birts with one stone.

[Blodg]

Definitely do not do this yourself, send the cylinder to GT Thunder.

[kt1148]

[QUOTE=CJM;4350172]^ Ya know. I know your just saying it to contradict me cause your a jerk and always right no matter what.
I've noticed it alot lately, totally understand your frustration. I have learned quite a bit of good info from your posts(CJM).

[CJM]

^ Why thank you :)

[2001400exrida]

I guess i should clarify since we've got some whiners. If you don't have the know how and you don't have the equipment, certainly send this to GTT thunder or to a local machinist. If you do have the know how and the equipment this is a very simple procedure.

I'm confused as to why kt1148 says he's noticed this and understands cjm's frustration. Did everybody miss the fact that cjm called me a jerk and a liar? It's time to grow up for some of you guys. I'm not saying any geek off the street should attempt this, but i'm saying if you work with metal and have any experience it's an easy job. Once you have done this once it is much easier the 2nd time as most things go. I've done 2 of these and would not hesitate to go over to my friends shop and do another one. It's rather straight forward.....but again! if you do not have the tools or the know how i wouldn't recommend it. I'm not saying somebody should go grab their craftsman drill and start going to town.

[CJM]

I've done 2 of these and would not hesitate to go over to my friends shop and do another one. It's rather straight forward.....but again! if you do not have the tools or the know how i wouldn't recommend it. I'm not saying somebody should go grab their craftsman drill and start going to town.

First it was several and now its 2? I am confused...So which is it?

sev·er·al
ˈsev(ə)rəl/
determiner & pronoun
determiner: several; pronoun: several

1.
more than two but not many.
"the author of several books"
synonyms: some, a number of, a few; More

[CJM]

And lets just quote all of this so you cant edit it.

I guess i should clarify since we've got some whiners. If you don't have the know how and you don't have the equipment, certainly send this to GTT thunder or to a local machinist. If you do have the know how and the equipment this is a very simple procedure.

I'm confused as to why kt1148 says he's noticed this and understands cjm's frustration. Did everybody miss the fact that cjm called me a jerk and a liar? It's time to grow up for some of you guys. I'm not saying any geek off the street should attempt this, but i'm saying if you work with metal and have any experience it's an easy job. Once you have done this once it is much easier the 2nd time as most things go. I've done 2 of these and would not hesitate to go over to my friends shop and do another one. It's rather straight forward.....but again! if you do not have the tools or the know how i wouldn't recommend it. I'm not saying somebody should go grab their craftsman drill and start going to town.

[2001400exrida]

Dang I didn't know the definition of several until now. thanks for the grammar lesson!

The answer is 2, i've done 2 of my own 400's this way. I can refer you to my friend who has probably done a dozen of them, he's the one who showed me how many times and has the proper tools for the job. just pm me i'll give ya his number if you want an explanation, he's done hd studs for anything from hayabusa motors to sv650 motors. It's rather common for him.
Are you going to continue to make attempts to belittle and insult me or can we move on now. I understand you're frustrated that you're in your mid to late 20's and still live at home, i would shoot myself if i was in your shoes, but let's not take it out on the forum marc.

[Yurshia]

I would not tackle this myself.. I could very well do it but what if I don't drill it straight or drill too deep? To me it's a cheap piece of mind to have it done by a professional. The process isn't hard by anymeans but what you're after here is precision.

I'd leave it to a machinest.. you have him can cut your tie rods on the same trip and kill two birts with one stone.
Chronic delete some of your PM's. I can't PM you back.

[400man]

Dang I didn't know the definition of several until now. thanks for the grammar lesson!

The answer is 2, i've done 2 of my own 400's this way. I can refer you to my friend who has probably done a dozen of them, he's the one who showed me how many times and has the proper tools for the job. just pm me i'll give ya his number if you want an explanation, he's done hd studs for anything from hayabusa motors to sv650 motors. It's rather common for him.
Are you going to continue to make attempts to belittle and insult me or can we move on now. I understand you're frustrated that you're in your mid to late 20's and still live at home, i would shoot myself if i was in your shoes, but let's not take it out on the forum marc.

dude.........that's not cool.....don't suggest sucide to someone because of their lifestyle. you tell everyone to grow up, yet make some retarded comment like that :huh :D

I guess you two guys have ruined another persons thread yet again. you guys should just argue in private messages. But I will admit, it is entertaining reading the posts between you two, like watching a soap opera :p

[2001400exrida]

i didn't suggest suicide, haha lighten up i'm not literally telling him to go kill himself........ lol i said if it was me i'd commit suicide. obviously marc is happy there....like step brothers. some people are happy with that, me personally not a chance.

And i could not agree more 400man, i can't begin to tell you how many times i have told cjm if he wants to insult me and call me a liar and a jerk and whatever else he should take it to PM. for some reason he is not able to do this.

to sum up where the drama started, i posted in the 3rd post saying if you have a vertical drill and some know how, this is not a hard task, even laz at GTT will tell you the same thing. AFter my post it appears CJM was having a bad morning and decided to try to belittle me as he does all too often. Fortunately this is not a forum that is run by all his gangbuster keyboard warriors. This forum allows people to give their input based on experience instead of taking sides with one or the other. THis is not a right or wrong type of forum. Some can do this, some cannot. THe question was asking whether he could. I explained to the OP it can be done with the proper know how and tools....hey listen, that's a fact jack.

[chronicsmoke]

Chronic delete some of your PM's. I can't PM you back.

Cleaned up, thanks for the heads up :cool:

You guys shouldn't be feeding the troll lol :tired:

[CJM]

Think of it: This is the same guy who couldnt figure out how to use a hacksaw to cut tie rods down. But hey he can install head studs now.. Same guy who argued steels structural integrity like he was an engineer too. Or maybe the googling and posting word for word is even better?

Ryan its the compulsive lying, thats why I take jabs at you.

[2001400exrida]

You guys shouldn't be feeding the troll lol :tired:

I know i shouldn't, but when he quotes me 10 times in 1 thread, i can't help but give him a cracker or two.

[Drifterboy3]

Alright guys. Good points on both ends and I have come to the conclusion that I will attempt. CJM I have got good advice and even parts from you in the past (400ex Xc link) if you remember. So I'm not throwing your advice out the window. I currently have an EXTRA jug. Which I think I will attempt on if all goes wrong off to the scrap. But if it goes well I know I can. I do have a drill press with prior threading expierience. But I will also call laz for a final opinion and some detail.
P.s. the dispute didn't bother me. It was some good reading material XD

[2001400exrida]

Glad your'e giving it a shot yourself, and with an extra cylinder you will have a backup in case something doesn't work. I recommend a caliper to measure to make sure you have the studs deep enough.

Also glad our dispute did not bother you. CJM offers good advice most of the time, the problem I have is when i offer any type of alternative he thinks i'm attacking him. That's not the case I was giving my experience and explaining that if you have the tools and the know how this is a no brainer, just because some people can't do it doesn't mean the rest of us aren't willing to make it happen.

It's not uncommon for people to do these studs themselves regardless of what you might read on here. FDO makes studs as well as some other companies for the 400ex. GTT makes them and is the only one you will see on this forum unless you do a search for FDO head studs. They are good studs as well. Just take your time and do it right and you won't have any problems, and the good thing is, once you have done one set you will be much faster the 2nd time around if you ever need to put HD studs in again.

Good luck and remember to use a good steel gasket.

[shortzt.15]

Not Sure If They Still Call For Use Of A Roll Form Tap, But If They Do You Almost Need A Mill, Its Kinda A pain To Start A Roll Form I Drilled My Buddies And Then Used A Friends Mill For The Down Pressure To Start, Just My 2 cents

[cheater13]

Post up some pictures when your done!

[MtnEX]

What is the build point where these head studs need installing as a prevention measure????

I am kind of fond of the lack of crap fuel issues I have noticed since going to 110 octane race fuel in my other quad.
So I am thinking about building a 110 motor for the 400EX?

Looks like $115 plus shipping each way to have it done since I don't have the tool access.

[Stickman400]

Anything over 11:1 is what everyone on here usually says. 11:1 and below is just good insurance, but not needed. I bought a set for mine when I re-built it a couple year ago but never ended up installing them, haven't had any issues yet. And the stockers got ALOT of hard hours on them. So I guess I'll just leave them on the work bench until she needs another rebuild.

[Rivet]

Not Sure If They Still Call For Use Of A Roll Form Tap, But If They Do You Almost Need A Mill, Its Kinda A pain To Start A Roll Form I Drilled My Buddies And Then Used A Friends Mill For The Down Pressure To Start, Just My 2 cents

A roll form tap is required to do it technically to the letter. If you begin tapping with a bottoming tap, yeah they can be a little bit of a pain to get started. You can get a tapered tap to start the threads, and then finish with the bottoming, but then you have to buy two taps and the project starts becoming less cost effective. I also agree with needing a mill to do it right.
I think the way many of these guys are successful installing the studs after using a regular tap is that they DO end up using some type of retaining compound. It's good stuff and allows for quite a bit of forgiveness.
Just my 2 cents.

[cheater13]

I need the bigger studs because I keep snapping my stock ones. 2nd time 2 of them snapped. I'm just running them like this till winter because there isn't any oil leaking.

[DragonGunner]

A roll form tap is required to do it technically to the letter. If you begin tapping with a bottoming tap, yeah they can be a little bit of a pain to get started. You can get a tapered tap to start the threads, and then finish with the bottoming, but then you have to buy two taps and the project starts becoming less cost effective. I also agree with needing a mill to do it right.
I think the way many of these guys are successful installing the studs after using a regular tap is that they DO end up using some type of retaining compound. It's good stuff and allows for quite a bit of forgiveness.
Just my 2 cents.


I'm kinda a fab guy....so took mine to work, used the drill press. Didn't use the roll tap either...Studs were good to go and been working good for several yrs. But I kinda done stuff like this before over the years. Dad was a mechenicic and tool and die guy and got a friend that fabs and builds hotrods among other things. If your not confident with your skills ship it out though.

[400man]

I need the bigger studs because I keep snapping my stock ones. 2nd time 2 of them snapped. I'm just running them like this till winter because there isn't any oil leaking.


.....as in broke clean in half??? :huh is it from riding or when you torque them down?

[MtnEX]

OK... now 2 or 3 dumb questions...

1- Is this the cause of head gasket failures on stock motors? If not what does cause it?

2- Is this only needed for compression above 11:1 or also for displacement increases?

3- I have never asked... does Laz do motor work? If so I might not mind shipping out for this upgrade and installation too if I need a bore and they do that kind of work also. Just get it all done there.

[CJM]

Answers in bold

OK... now 2 or 3 dumb questions...

1- Is this the cause of head gasket failures on stock motors? If not what does cause it?
Depends on the build, certainly if it was not jetted right the exhaust heats up very badly and thus causes the head studs to pull out. Failure is always the 2 studs near exhaust

2- Is this only needed for compression above 11:1 or also for displacement increases?
It really recommended for higher compression overall. It doesnt hurt as added insurance on any build however. I did 2 personal builds with the studs, one done by laz and the other done by a local shop. neither of them had any issues BUT we jetted them right. lean jetting means heat on a 400ex!

3- I have never asked... does Laz do motor work? If so I might not mind shipping out for this upgrade and installation too if I need a bore and they do that kind of work also. Just get it all done there.
yes he builds motors and does boring. I had him do my 400ex one time and had no issues. he does good work and ok turn around time.



Over torquing the bolts is a MAJOR no no, 33 ft-lbs using a good and accurate torque wrench, no harbor freight junk.