diy a arms.........um i got metal and a welder just a few qustions.

[jarfly]

So I really want wider stance but do not have the 600 for a arms just worndering if anyone has anyone has cut some stickers and cut them and extend them or just bulks a whole new set could I just almake. Jig extend and cut or is there a lot more to it. I can weld have access to fig and all that fancy stuff.

[CJM]

1. Cut arms in half
2. Find piping that fits over them
3. Weld piping on
4. Maybe they wont break?

[KKiowaTJ]

Id spend the $600, It will save you 10x that when you try and fail and end up with a stack of medical bills.

You will have to sleeve the cut and leave a root gap, There is no way you can just cut, Add gap, And weld it back and expect it to even land front heavy. But you will need DOM tubing, Hope and a chit ton of good luck not to end up eating chit from a hack job. Good luck either way

[JOHNDOE83]

you can get brand new +1 forward +2 outward a arms for $350 on ebay.

still about $400 tho.

like cjm said, cut em, extended em, weld em, hope em dont break.

truthfully if you trust your welding skill and the material you use is slightly thicker it will be fine.
















=

[Stickman400]

Didn't someone on here already do this?

[JOHNDOE83]

400exshop made some from scratch, but they are solid 1 piece a arms for drag racing.

Other then that I dont know if any tried or not?

[Stickman400]

No, someone else made full on long travel a-arms in their garage on here with pics of the build and everything. I can't remember the name of the member or the thread but they looked legit and built right. Damn, somebody's gotta remember, Marc? Maybe boneless or Cody?

[Stickman400]

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA I FOUND IIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!! And it only took me 45 minutes or so......:( http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?403505-Making-Your-Own-A-Ams&highlight=custom%20arms I guess they weren't long travel, just extended, but nonetheless, there you go!

[Napalm Nate]

I remember that quad it had a cr 500 motor in looked crazy fast just wonder if that quad is still around or junk now

[CJM]

Yea I recall it stick.

The guy made sure to weld it up good and strong with tubing. Thats the key. you can just but them together and weld, thats weak and will fail..

[Blodg]

For the time spent trying to make them work right by modifying them yourself the $300 or $400 for cheap a-arms would be money well spent. Even if you modify the arms to widen them yourself you will still have to buy longer tie rods. Just buy some cheap aftermarket arms.

[81dasher81]

i made some +2's for mine.. but it takes alot more than just metal and a welder haha

[2001400exrida]

that guy when crazy wide with his welding. THis can easily be done, i've seen it several times, if you trust your welding skills there's not "hoping it won't breaK'. a good weld can be stronger than the original. I would also say if you're going to weld them wider, you should look into putting caster/camber adjustments in as well, that way you can replace the balljoints. Jet suspension does this for a small price....makes things much easier when it comes to ball joint repalcement.

[ben300]

as a mech engineer that works in structural design........most, if not ALL, after market a-arms are waaaaaaay cheaper than some of the medical bills that you could have if you made something and it failed

[2001400exrida]

as a mech engineer that works in structural design........most, if not ALL, after market a-arms are waaaaaaay cheaper than some of the medical bills that you could have if you made something and it failed

as a mech engineer in structural design you should know nothing about medical bills and a ton about structure stregnth. If done right, an arm can be extended and made just a strong if not strong than the original. I love seeing people try new things. If you don't have the money to spend on arms and you're handy with metal working, why not extend them on your own? If it goes to hell, you're in the same boat as before....needing new a arms. Things can go wrong sure, but as long as you're not attempting to duct tape extensions on there and you have experience with a welder, this is not that far fetched. I've seen more welded extended swingers at the strip than i can count on my hands and feet. ingenuity baby, redneck ingenuity!

[ben300]

as a mech engineer in structural design you should know nothing about medical bills and a ton about structure stregnth. If done right, an arm can be extended and made just a strong if not strong than the original. I love seeing people try new things. If you don't have the money to spend on arms and you're handy with metal working, why not extend them on your own? If it goes to hell, you're in the same boat as before....needing new a arms. Things can go wrong sure, but as long as you're not attempting to duct tape extensions on there and you have experience with a welder, this is not that far fetched. I've seen more welded extended swingers at the strip than i can count on my hands and feet. ingenuity baby, redneck ingenuity!

1. if you stick a metal sleeve inside another metal sleeve and weld it, you are going to reinforce center piece, but not the the outer pieces. your gonna get flexation of the two outer pieces, ultimately cause fatigue of the not reinforced pieces, causing failure

2. depending on how much your extend your arms, you gonna create a greater moment arm or "moment of torque" about hte pivot point of the arm (eithe upper or lower.) this is gonna cause bending through out the arm...greater bending the greater the distance away from the point of pivot. when you have a sleeve stuck into another sleve, that outer sleeve is going ot bend more than the inner sleeve because its A) longer and B) the start and end of the inner sleve is shorter than that of the outer sleeve.

The outer sleeve bending, because its not going to be fully fused to the inner sleeve, is gonna have contact stress with the inner sleeve, eventualy causing the outer sleeve to either strees, crack, or fail it fatgue from flexing against the inner sleeve.

That stress is also going to get concenterated on two locations, which are both more than likely the weld seams of the three pieces of the arm. Welds are week points and these will eventually break.


there is no way you take, for instance, a regular travel, +1 houser 400 ex houser slicast a-arm, cut 3 inches out of the center of the arm, stick a rod through and then slide a 5 inch longer sleeve on the outside, weld it back together, and actually make it stronger. it doesnt really work like that

[2001400exrida]

you're talking about 1 method of extending metal. I would not use the method you are suggesting to extend anything.

[jarfly]

Ain't been to a computer in a few sorry I aint replayed. But I'v been looking at the thing ever night. I think my best bet on doing this is buying tube and starting from scratch, i'v got access to a tig, bender plasma or what ever I need. And on the camber adjustment styple is that the one with like heim joints on the end for the ball joints? Thinking I could do something like that to get it diled in. And how has people done swingers? I wouldn't mind gaining a few inches bak there to. And on the welding, I can put money on if I weld it, that thing staying.

[ben300]

you're talking about 1 method of extending metal. I would not use the method you are suggesting to extend anything.

well then, how would you extend the metal?

there is no simple way of extending hte metal, and making it "stronger" than its original design. just ain happening

your not gonna take a piece of same OD tubing and but weld it together. thats gonna break faster than taylor swifts heart when she gets dumped by her flavor of hte week.

your not gonna be able to take the tubign that the arm is made from, stick it into a dye, and simply draw it out longer.


if you look at any good after market a-arm...any a-arm for that matter...its made from one solid piece of tubing, that starts at a pivot and ends at the bracket used to mount the ball joints. sure it may be bent, but if you look at alot of the bend points of these arms (for example an ARS-fx long travel max GC, or a houser long travel max GC) the bend at these poinst is located very close, if not at the point of the bottom shock mount. sure they may be reinforced with cross members, or bracing for the shock, BUT, its one solid piece of tubing..not two pieces. not three.....

you can even look at an arm like a walsh or six 5 design. they are very futuristic looking and are made of multiple pieces, yet the arms are still made of long continuous tubing which start at a pivot point and end at the nuckle for they ball joints.

the idea, IMO opinion, is an a-arm should be a continuous piece of tubing, whichis allowed to flex along that entire piece, allow for transfer of stress across the arm, and into the shock. when you cut the arm, and then weld it back together, your 1) creating naturaly stress/weak points in teh tube, and 2) adding a location that disrupts the flex of the arm.

[CJM]

Oh look, now Ryan thinks he is a mechanical engineer..

[81dasher81]

hahaha that escalated quickly.. in my opinion i would start from scratch, if you do decide to build them. when doing so i would do as stated above and give them adjustable caster and camber. tie rods aren't a big deal, i just cut the ends off my originals (needed left hand threads) and placed them in a pipe, just measure them before you cut them so you know how far to extend them. i havent had any problems with mine failing. i used 1'' DOM tubing. make sure you arent terribly shy with the gussets, but you dont need to go crazy either.

[chronicsmoke]

lol sub'd..

I would NEVER EVER....EVER use a-arms that were extended for anything but TT or atv rodeos.. I think the medical bills outweigh the price of cheap arms.

Or build them yourself from scratch, that would be cool and not 'half as$ed' like extending stock arms..

[jcs003]

1. if you stick a metal sleeve inside another metal sleeve and weld it, you are going to reinforce center piece, but not the the outer pieces. your gonna get flexation of the two outer pieces, ultimately cause fatigue of the not reinforced pieces, causing failure

2. depending on how much your extend your arms, you gonna create a greater moment arm or "moment of torque" about hte pivot point of the arm (eithe upper or lower.) this is gonna cause bending through out the arm...greater bending the greater the distance away from the point of pivot. when you have a sleeve stuck into another sleve, that outer sleeve is going ot bend more than the inner sleeve because its A) longer and B) the start and end of the inner sleve is shorter than that of the outer sleeve.

The outer sleeve bending, because its not going to be fully fused to the inner sleeve, is gonna have contact stress with the inner sleeve, eventualy causing the outer sleeve to either strees, crack, or fail it fatgue from flexing against the inner sleeve.

That stress is also going to get concenterated on two locations, which are both more than likely the weld seams of the three pieces of the arm. Welds are week points and these will eventually break.


there is no way you take, for instance, a regular travel, +1 houser 400 ex houser slicast a-arm, cut 3 inches out of the center of the arm, stick a rod through and then slide a 5 inch longer sleeve on the outside, weld it back together, and actually make it stronger. it doesnt really work like that


"moment of torque" is redundant at best. a moment and torque are a similiar but arent exactly the same.

this will work fine. its a common method used to reinforce a butt-joint in a tube. its actually strengthening the arm at its weakest point. i.e. the mid-point of the moment arm.

john

[ben300]

"moment of torque" is redundant at best. a moment and torque are a similiar but arent exactly the same.

this will work fine. its a common method used to reinforce a butt-joint in a tube. its actually strengthening the arm at its weakest point. i.e. the mid-point of the moment arm.

john




true. but its still a force, applied at a distance, about a point, with a resistance applied at another, shorter point,...the force is doing work about that point.......its gonna bend, its gonna flex. by adding two, unnecessary joints to the tube, its gonna break.

it may not now, and it may not tomorrow...but eventually, its gonna break at one of those joints

[Baileygunns]

Oh look, now Ryan thinks he is a mechanical engineer..
And a Doctor, lol...

[81dasher81]

haha actually if you reinforce it correctly, it will be stronger at the joint. technically it is more likely to break just AFTER each joint if done correctly, as placing a smaller piece of steel inside the tubing as well as using the original size tubing. but due to the fact that before and after each joint are made of the original material, it will be the same strength as original, therefore it will not fail. i still think it would be less trouble to start from scratch, and i do not realize why this is even an issue.. lol

[KKiowaTJ]

Good welds usually don't break, The area around it does from lack or re tempering the steel you weakened while welding. With the price of raw materials, If you use the correct ones, Will be a 1/6 or better on the way to arms built correctly. Add in the rest plus a day or two of hours into it, You might save a buck or two.
To each their own and best of luck, But safety is the main key and it not just you're life in danger if you race or plan to.

[81dasher81]

yes, thats what i was saying about the welds.. the reason i built mine is because i wanted to.. with time i had in them i didnt save a penny, but i just wanted to make my own a arms. make sure you build them right, weld them the way they should, and gusset them, and they won't fail.

[2001400exrida]

Oh look, now Ryan thinks he is a mechanical engineer..


And a Doctor, lol...

You two need to get a room and get off me. This ain't the org, it's not "pile on Ryan" around here. I left your forum now don't come over here poking jabs. Do either of you have anything to put towards this topic or are you posting only to attempt to insult me? Grow up guys it really is getting old and i don't care if you do have 10k posts CJM, still doesn't make you the god of all gods. In fact, if a person was to read through all your posts, they might in fact turn completely retarded....

Ok sorry, OP but it gets old when these guys post nothing about the topic and then just throw insults around...back to the subject.


just like jcs300 and 81dasher81 said, you can reinforce it properly and not lose any strength. Just because you extend a tube doesn't mean it will become weaker. I agree starting from scratch will be less work, but if this guy has the ingenuity and wants to try this out, it can certainly be done without being a weak a arm. Build them right OP and i think you'll be happy, it will be a one of a kind a arm no doubt. Post some pics of the finished product for us.

[CJM]

You two need to get a room and get off me. This ain't the org, it's not "pile on Ryan" around here. I left your forum now don't come over here poking jabs. Do either of you have anything to put towards this topic or are you posting only to attempt to insult me? Grow up guys it really is getting old and i don't care if you do have 10k posts CJM, still doesn't make you the god of all gods. In fact, if a person was to read through all your posts, they might in fact turn completely retarded....

Ok sorry, OP but it gets old when these guys post nothing about the topic and then just throw insults around...back to the subject.


just like jcs300 and 81dasher81 said, you can reinforce it properly and not lose any strength. Just because you extend a tube doesn't mean it will become weaker. I agree starting from scratch will be less work, but if this guy has the ingenuity and wants to try this out, it can certainly be done without being a weak a arm. Build them right OP and i think you'll be happy, it will be a one of a kind a arm no doubt. Post some pics of the finished product for us.

WHAT??? You left our forum??? You were banned 20x and now your back as chainsawjack on the org. This is like the pot calling the kettle black here! You may think your smart but your IP gives it away! We pile on you cause your an idiot and your advice is usually wrong. Not only that but you have ZERO qualifications other than google and wikipedia to back up your claims in this thread as well.

Im sorry dude, but you have the problem. Not me or Chronic or anyone else. Believe me when I tell you, everyone thinks your an idiot. Hell, outsiders who have zero real dealings with you constantly tell me so!

[2001400exrida]

^^^i literally have no idea what you are talking about. chainsawjack? you need to check yourself man. I don't know what my IP says and i'm sorry you are trying to tie me to somebody i am not. It happened a couple weeks ago too you were calling somebody out over there because they must have had my IP too right? Yes baileygunns banned me from there after i had been a member for years. as soon as he became mod i got the ban stick because he didn't like me. CJM. You realize i've been riding 450's since before you were on this site. If you want qualifications come ride with me. I'll be racing at Pekin in 2 weekends...come out man the more quads the better. I'm not on the org except to lurk with my secret account......if you can find out what account that is congratulations, but so far you're 0 for 2 on trying to call me out.

I've said this before but apparently i need to reiterrate. Instead of ruining a good thread with your name calling, maybe you and bailey can just PM me so we don't have to keep doing this. You're arrogant and you need to take a step back. This is not your forum, unless 10,000 posts makes it yours.......just chill dude, get off your high horse and learn a few things. I'm posting my thoughts, why do you have to get so hot and bothered? Do you want to go on a date? I'll buy dinnner.

Are you so angry at me because you still live at home? Did you get grounded? Dude, maybe sell the quad, get your priorities in line, and then buy one. I mean it's a shame that a almost 30 year old still lives at home and goes around the forum insulting people because he's got a complex. Grow up CJM, live the dream and quit bringing people down!

i find it funny that there is drama on the org and you guys are attacking innocent accounts just because you think they're me. I mean i'm not even posting and there's drama. Where does the problem lie?

[ben300]

http://imageshack.com/a/img32/4681/56o.gif (http://imageshack.com/i/0w56og)

[chronicsmoke]

http://imageshack.com/a/img32/4681/56o.gif (http://imageshack.com/i/0w56og)

I for one would like to know where you get these gif images lol :D

[2001400exrida]

i don't get it? ben are you mad at me because i told you could weld more material to a arm without sacraficing strenght? i truly apologize for giving input. Seems when guys can't agree they start making personal attacks. i feel bad for the OP that a good thread had to go off track because people got personal. sad story. Scro will clean it up and i'm sure it will happen again whenever CJM gets his panties in a bunch about something i've said. then bailey will chime in. then chronic and if we're lucky alan.

[ben300]

i don't get it? ben are you mad at me because i told you could weld more material to a arm without sacraficing strenght? i truly apologize for giving input. Seems when guys can't agree they start making personal attacks. i feel bad for the OP that a good thread had to go off track because people got personal. sad story. Scro will clean it up and i'm sure it will happen again whenever CJM gets his panties in a bunch about something i've said. then bailey will chime in. then chronic and if we're lucky alan.



that gif wasnt meant towards you ....get over yourself. chill

[2001400exrida]

sir, yes sir!

[ben300]

I for one would like to know where you get these gif images lol :D

and to answer your question, lol, the joerogan.net forums..... that place is awesome. you find a lot of internet gold on there

[ben300]

sir, yes sir!

your for once werent actualy ruining the thread.....i just had to post that

[2001400exrida]

no worries i honestly didn't know what it meant. I truly wasn't trying to ruin the thread, it's hard to keep some of these folks off my back. And I'm glad you can see what's happening.

i'm not a mechanical engineer or a doctor....but apparently if i give any type of input people make those type of comments.

what makes me curious is that marc says i was on the org as a chainsaw name or smething because the IP matches my ip. What i can't figure out though is how that is possible since baileygunns has banned my IP address. If my IP is banned, how can anybody login with my IP? just doesn't ad up. Maybe he's from my area and so they assume it is me? that would be a wrong assumption marky mark.

[chronicsmoke]

and to answer your question, lol, the joerogan.net forums..... that place is awesome. you find a lot of internet gold on there

LOL Bookmarked :D


If my IP is banned, how can anybody login with my IP? just doesn't ad up. Maybe he's from my area and so they assume it is me? that would be a wrong assumption marky mark.

Mobile phones have mobile IP's so they can't ban your IP without banning everyone's phone withing a 250 mile radius. So they can ban a desktop IP, and you could just keep coming back (which I believe has happened ~20 times since June 2013) but you know this lol

[2001400exrida]

actually chronic, they have banned my phone ip, i cannot access the site from my mobile phone. My only method of accessing trx450r.org since they have banned my IP is by using a proxy server. Which, as I said, is why I lurk. I truly feel sorry for the people that you cronies wrongfully accuse. It's sickening that so many of you feel all high and mighty that you will call anybody out in order to belittle them. That forum has really lost it's way. With the new mods I saw through google that the ratings dropped, their daily visits has dropped drastically. You boys keep running the show over there and it'll be nothing before we know it. there's a reason the site vendors over there are dropping like flies. way to many cronies trying to run the show and not open their minds to other points of view. a group of cronies like you guys can't just attempt to take over a forum, it won't work out in the long haul, but hey what can ya do. Problem is all the good guys are leaving so you're left with kids and cronies. too many chiefs not enough indians.....

[chronicsmoke]

That forum has really lost it's way. With the new mods I saw through google that the ratings dropped, their daily visits has dropped drastically. You boys keep running the show over there and it'll be nothing before we know it.

On the contrary, the ORG has been a well oiled machine since the troll got the boot (21 times). You may see it as negative, but everybody (trust me on that, EVERYBODY that isn't the troll) is more than happy with the way it's run. If the troll doesn't like it.. than why does the troll lurk on a hidden account or why did the troll create a new account 20 times in 2.5 months?

Everybody else isn't the issue, you'll be a better person when you realize this. maybe you need to see a shrink?

[2001400exrida]

On the contrary, the ORG has been a well oiled machine since the troll got the boot (21 times). You may see it as negative, but everybody (trust me on that, EVERYBODY that isn't the troll) is more than happy with the way it's run. If the troll doesn't like it.. than why does the troll lurk on a hidden account or why did the troll create a new account 20 times in 2.5 months?

Everybody else isn't the issue, you'll be a better person when you realize this. maybe you need to see a shrink?

more personal blows, come on dave, lay off the bong brother. hey i caught your little shrink comment before you had the chance to edit budzo!

i have not been booted 21 times, you're not a mod and you're clueless, you can make up lies whatever helps you sleep at night bud. the reason i lurk is to keep in contact through PM with my friends on that forum. I talk to many guys on there, not through threads anymore but through PM. We talk about our racing and how the season is going and local races. Just because you don't see me, doesn't mean i'm not there dave. Many of these people......12 of them in fact stood up for me when you tried to start a thread to have me banned. 12 people stood up and the other 40 some were nothing but bandwagon cronies. Sad story.

see, i can talk to you without throwing out personal jabs.....

[chronicsmoke]

see, i can talk to you without throwing out personal jabs.....

lmao, oh can you?


more personal blows, come on dave, lay off the bong brother. hey i caught your little shrink comment before you had the chance to edit budzo!

i have not been booted 21 times, you're not a mod and you're clueless, you can make up lies whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

In the same paragraph lol.. well it's obvious you take everything way too personally and you are relentless to have the last word (the reason you were booted in the first place)

So I'll let you have your precious last word after this, I promise! I don't want to be responsible for you finally going off the deepend..

[2001400exrida]

read this awesome thread where many people say they wanted me to stay, but of course CJM was campaigning against me. Plenty of people know me there. the funny thing is one of you guys created the trxbob account, started that thread in attempt to ban me and yet bob hasn't been banned, but i got banned? prettty stupid

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trx450r.org%2Fforum%2F92-lounge%2F226714-thread-explain-why-you-voted-fate-rl.html&ei=5nUnUvftHOHhyQGInoHIBQ&usg=AFQjCNF8qsicXXSId0FG1w56t34O6y5b7w&sig2=7nn5tCa5AHhlhW-7FBYBTA&bvm=bv.51495398,d.aWc

then bob starts another thread like this, and yet i get banned and he stays.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trx450r.org%2Fforum%2F92-lounge%2F215762-dislike-thread.html&ei=rXgnUqu1Ae_eyQHwt4HwDg&usg=AFQjCNG51e4_LxHxO2jfw1VIhJJaUrb0Ng&sig2=4bv63jg9GhybmaL-7RPa-A&bvm=bv.51495398,d.aWc

i was ridinlow, i got banned because the cronies were way more hardcore, even with my supporters you guys banned me

[D Bergstrom]

Ryan,

You keep saying Bailygunns banned you from the Org, but didn't the Admin ban you? I even found the post where he said bye bye Ryan, so pretty sure that is the case. Admin over there also said there was ALOT more that went on through PM's, so I am guessing you ran your mouth to the wrong guy and he is the one that banned you, not the "chronies" as you say. Admin represents the owner, and as far as I am concerned, it is his way or the highway, you chose the highway...


as a mech engineer in structural design you should know nothing about medical bills and a ton about structure stregnth.

The above quote is exactly the reason I am glad you are not on the org anymore, you just have a certain way of saying things, almost disrespectful in a way. I was actually kind of on your side, until I had an opinion on the org in a certain thread and you had a smarta** comment to what I said. As Chronic mentioned, you just always have to have the last word, even if you are wrong. You can believe what you want, but as far as I am concerned, the org is a better place with the new mods.

Sorry to the OP for this, but just something I felt has to be said. As far as the original topic, I would not lengthen my own a-arms unless I was a VERY experienced welder, and even if I did have that much experience, I would just build completely new arms at that point. Just my opinion.

Doug

[2001400exrida]

d bergstrom, it's fine of you to make so many assumptions but that's all they are....assumptions. Bailey and several other members campaigned, reached out to the stew lawson at vertical scope who is the admin Stew Lawson is no more than a power tripping moderator. google him if you would like to know more, he has ruined more communities than i can shake a stick at. Stew will say whatever he can to keep the community happy so just because he said there was alot more in PM doesn't mean a darn thing bergstrom. Baileygunns made it his job to troll every thread i posted in for my last 2 months on that forum. It's easy, go look at his posts from months ago and you'll see it's no secret. I call a spade a spade, i give it straight. Just because some guys can't handle me giving it straight doesn't mean anybody is better than the other person. NObody should be banned, nobody should whine and cry about it. if ya can't handle it, ignroe it. The org is hardly a better place, in case you can't see there's still drama there right now while i'm not even posting. you got mixxer and demon going at it, then you got chronic and cjm and those cronies calling members out thinking it's me. it's quite amusing. i no longer post there, yet the drama remains, not only that, these guys lie and say i've created 20 accounts. ask york if you want the truth. cjm even got so bold as to say that my IP matched some new members....i mean really, how would he know....and 2nd how could i do that if my ip was banned? would my banned ip match another ip and not be banned? doesn't make any sense. thanks for the concern doug, but let's face it.......that site is no better with the jackels running it than it was before. There's a group of about 10 of us that do nothing but group pm talking about it. i find it funny, but also sad at the same time. google the forum statistics, the viewing and site visiting has gone wayyyyyy downhill. none of the good builders post anymore because it's over run now with half mods and people who think they know everything. which is why i'm here.

has everybody forgot that after i was banned from the org there were several threads started to bring me back. of course stew lawson and ed bailey deleted those real fast. not sure if you folks saw them, but there are people there who know me in real life and don't follow the bandwagon like some of the clowns do.