Upgrade to 450?

[Ryan02400ex]

Hey guys, I've been thinking about upgrading to a 450. Everyone around has 450s and the ole 400 just isn't keeping up. I was wondering what you guys thought of the idea? I'm sure most people have considered it. What's your thoughts and opinions? I've put so much time and money into the 400 that I will never get back. It's defiantly a hard choice. I love the old girl and she has taught me everything I know about quads. Any opinions would be a great help. :(

[JOHNDOE83]

450s are nice but there is alot of other stuff thats just as good or better.

in my opinion the geometry of the 400ex is better, unfortunatly the 400ex is way to heavy for its own good.

the 450 has more power and speed but is also very heavy, modding a 450 takes lots of money to.

for the price of a stock 450, you could build something faster, better and cheaper using what you already have. The bad and hard part is youll have to get rid of the 100lbs 400ex motor and use a diff motor if you really want a big upgrade for the money.

I built one hybrid quad and am currently building another, once ive seen the difference I can never go back to stockish rides ever again.

One I built was a cr250/400ex hybrid, the other im currently working on is a cr80/400ex hybrid.

They are cheap and easy to build so far...lol.

Thats my opinion, a 450 would be sick if it had high comp, cam, valves, programable cdi, port and carb work. But now were talking about almost $2000 in mods before its as fast as my stock motor hybrid.

At the drag strip, a yfz with above mentioned mods is not faster then the hybrid but will run WAY MORE consistent times then the hybrid does. Sometimes consistency will win the race and it will obviously last longer then the 2 stroke hybrid will, it will also be more reliable and comfortable on long rides were the hybrid will be "ok" at best.

A 400ex can be built to run with 450s all day long in the same class, but like the 450 it will cost $2000 to make it that fast. Which isnt all that bad, once youve spent the money ou will have a reliable turn key race quad ready to ride anytime you want.

[2001400exrida]

A 400ex can be built to run with 450s all day long in the same class, but like the 450 it will cost $2000 to make it that fast. Which isnt all that bad, once youve spent the money ou will have a reliable turn key race quad ready to ride anytime you want.

Not true. A 450 can be built to blow any 400ex out of the water, period. A 450 with a pipe, cam and piston will smoke any 400ex. I spent $500 on a cam, high comp piston and full system exhaust for my 450 and it doesn't hang with my 11:1 426ex. which cost just as much to build up.

I'm not trying to agrgue but my point is if you spend 2,000 on your 400ex to make it fast and then spend 2,000 on a 450, the 450 is going to be faster. mod for mod there's no question the 450's will win. And it's the same in stock form.

[JOHNDOE83]

Not true. A 450 can be built to blow any 400ex out of the water, period. A 450 with a pipe, cam and piston will smoke any 400ex. I spent $500 on a cam, high comp piston and full system exhaust for my 450 and it doesn't hang with my 11:1 426ex. which cost just as much to build up.

I'm not trying to agrgue but my point is if you spend 2,000 on your 400ex to make it fast and then spend 2,000 on a 450, the 450 is going to be faster. mod for mod there's no question the 450's will win. And it's the same in stock form.

Mod for mod yes the 450 will be faster, but at the drag strip my lil 440 beat any piped, camd or ported 450. Not any bored 450s, and if they had bigger carbs with cams and such they were pretty fast, but regardless atleast "my 440" and 400exshop's 440, and some stock bore 400exs on this site smoke mild 450s all day.

Theres lots of factors involved in who won and why but my statement was mainly to say that 400exs can be made to run with 450s for the most part.

[400man]

I had a 450r for a little while and was gonna fix it up into a xc race bike, but plans changed and I eventually sold it, needed some money. all it had was a hmf slipon, but it felt way stronger than my 400ex, I had both at the time. I had a choice of which one to keep, and I stayed with my 400ex, mainly cause ive owned it longer and knew almost every bolt and nut on it, and rebuilt it myself. and also the 400 just felt more comfortable to ride personally. the 450 just felt like it was in race mode all the time, didn't feel right just putin around on.

but anyways, if your just looking for more raw power, get the 450 and be done with it. I know my 400 will never be as fast as everyone with their "450s", but I could care less......I like my 400 cause its simple, reliable, and can be made fast if I choose to later on, so im happy with it.

[81dasher81]

i have less than 3200 in my 400ex (including purchase price) and i can walk all over 450's at the track. so yes, i agree with johndoe that for the most part you can build them to keep up. power wont solve everything though, you can make 60+ hp with a 450 but if it has stock suspension a 400ex with alot less power will run right along with if not beat it, on good suspension. to be honest, im getting ready to buy a 450r, but i'll still keep my 400, because like you said, theres no way to get out what i have in it.

[CJM]

I honestly like the way the 04-05 450 rides better than the 400ex, feels more nimble to me. 06+ sucks imho. Id say best of bothw orlds is the 04-05, but it isnt as cheap to mod one when a piston alone is easily 200 bucks.

Id have kept my 400 but she was tired and I needed a change. Still 400 eats stuff on the trails b/c of the usable torque.

[81dasher81]

it really depends what kind of riding youre doing.. dunes, mx, or tt, and i'd go with a 450. trails or xc i'd stick with the 400, just set it up to fit you and what you like

[OZ-T]

I wouldn't trade up my low maintenance intervals with the 400 if it was me. 450s and all other race-ready bikes/quads need a good deal more routine maintenance than the old school air cooled engines do.

[CJM]

What maintenance? I rebuilt my 400 WAY more than the 400. Nikasil bore means it lasts ALOT longer. So you gotta shim the valves instead of adjust them, little more involved. I never had to adjust the 400ex valves much tho.

400ex would have been perfect had it been water cooled-thats is downfall.

[OZ-T]

What maintenance? I rebuilt my 400 WAY more than the 400. Nikasil bore means it lasts ALOT longer. So you gotta shim the valves instead of adjust them, little more involved. I never had to adjust the 400ex valves much tho.

400ex would have been perfect had it been water cooled-thats is downfall.
Yes, but according to your signature, your 400EX was a modified machine. Modifying anything out of stock form takes away from it's original reliability. My 400EX is 12 years old and hasn't been torn down yet.

When I used to race motocross with a KX250F, it was recommended to change the oil every 10 hours and if I remember right, a top end rebuild every 30 or 50 hours. Sure the other factory race machines are similar.

[CJM]

Trust me when I say this, by now your 400ex is burning a slight if not good bit of oil and needs rings. After 12 years of riding it is nowhere near pristine engine wise.

[OZ-T]

Trust me when I say this, by now your 400ex is burning a slight if not good bit of oil and needs rings. After 12 years of riding it is nowhere near pristine engine wise.

Well yes, but that comes with age. And it still runs real strong each time. I only have to add oil maybe every 10 rides or so and have run synthetic in it always. One day when I get the money, I'd like to salvage a engine out of a 05+ 400EX so I can get reverse..

[CJM]

And maintaining a 450 engine is harder? Honestly they are easier to break down than a 400 ever was and will be.

[Ryan02400ex]

The thing that triggered the idea of getting rid of it was the splines or whatever you call them where the hub connects to the axle stripped out. I really don't feel like spending 300 on a new axle and hubs. But if I sell it I would replace them anyways before I sold it, so I will probably just replace it and keep it. I love the ole girl and It would be too hard to see her go.

[CJM]

Axles like 100 bucks on ebay, hubs are 50. Most of it can be bought on this forum used. CRANK down on them hub nuts next time with an impact so they dont loosen.

[Ryan02400ex]

I was going to try but I didn't have a socket big enough so I just used a hammer and a punch on the nut to tighten it. Do you know what size socket it is? It would probably be a good investment haha

[400man]

The thing that triggered the idea of getting rid of it was the splines or whatever you call them where the hub connects to the axle stripped out. I really don't feel like spending 300 on a new axle and hubs. But if I sell it I would replace them anyways before I sold it, so I will probably just replace it and keep it. I love the ole girl and It would be too hard to see her go.

which side of the axle is it? if its the sprocket side, just weld the hub to the axle. mine was welded when I bought it a couple years ago, and I had to weld the one on my dad's 400ex earlier this year.

[Ryan02400ex]

which side of the axle is it? if its the sprocket side, just weld the hub to the axle. mine was welded when I bought it a couple years ago, and I had to weld the one on my dad's 400ex earlier this year.

It is the sprocket side. I considered that but I figured I would have to have someone with a tig welder do it

[Stickman400]

I wanna say that hub nut is a 27mm, but not certain. Can anyone confirm that? If not I'll go look at my sockets tomorrow and confirm.

[chronicsmoke]

CRANK down on them hub nuts next time with an impact so they dont loosen.

This.

I check mine all the time and give it an 1/8th turn and slip the R-clip back in, keeps them tight and when it's tight it wont wear the splines out prematurely..

[400man]

It is the sprocket side. I considered that but I figured I would have to have someone with a tig welder do it

nahhh you don't need a tig welder. the boy I bought mine from used a stick welder. I used my little gasless fluxcore wire welder on my dads, just weave a little bead while someone rotates the axle, don't even have to remove it,

[CJM]

yea 27mm.

[2001400exrida]

What maintenance? I rebuilt my 400 WAY more than the 400. Nikasil bore means it lasts ALOT longer. So you gotta shim the valves instead of adjust them, little more involved. I never had to adjust the 400ex valves much tho.

400ex would have been perfect had it been water cooled-thats is downfall.

just out of curiosity, how many hours do you have on your 450? How do you know you rebuilt the 400 way more? I just feel if you're going to give input like this you need to have real experience and actually have some seat time put into the 450 that way you can give an educated opinion instead of one without any experience.. I had a 2007 400ex that i ran for 4 years hard and all i ever did was replace the rings and valve seals, that's cheap easy maintenance right there....everything else ran perfect. My 450 started smoking at the end of last season and besides putting new piston, rings in it, i also had to replace the radiator because it was leaking. I think both machines require maintenance and to say the 450 has less is simply not true. Get some hours on it then report back.

[matt14c]

Only way to do is to be able to keep your current bike. For most on here people won't get a quarter of what they have into there 400's and that will maybe get you a 04-06 stock or maybe a 450 with pipe and nerf bars. The 400ex isn't a dead machine especially trail riding with buddies or local races. I ride with a 06 TRX450, 08 DS450 and 08 YFZ450 all with the usual bolt ons and i have no problem running with them or ahead of them. BUT I've also owned my 400 since new in 99 and not much left on bike is stock. BUT I am too about to make the leap to a 450 this winter. Due to the fact that my EX is setup for moto and with age we've found ourselves more in the trails than track and I want the ground clearence back along with liquid cooled. But still keeping EX. If your thinking of just selling EX to get a 450 I'd say no. Just go to a 416-426 mild port hot cam stage 2 and 450 carb and good head pipe silencer you'll be right there.

[Blodg]

Personally I LOVE pulling away from 450's on the trail on my 400EX when everyone considers it a slow machine and/or a quad for a girlfriend/woman. I ride with several dirt bikes and have climbed more hills than them and had no problem pushing the pace with them in the woods and their bikes are probably as twice as fast as mine in a straight drag.

I too considered going to a 450 but I was honest with myself in that I could not make use of all the power in the woods and it wouldn't be any more fun to ride than the 400EX I already owned. And having fun is what riding is all about and not which quad is the fastest in a drag race.

[Ryan02400ex]

Alright, thanks guys. I already have it bored to 426, so she's plenty quick and I guess it serves it purpose for what I do, which is some trail riding and field riding and just messing around.

[400exrich]

The 450 is a high revving machine and a 400ex has more low range power but put all the fancy stuff into it like a 440 cam and stroker kit the 450 can touch u in the trails mod for mod tho the 450 in a straight away proably win but in the trails I don't know I have a 400ex planning on racing it in xc but I have to build it first and I seen 400s beat 450s in the trail for mod to mod the 450 is more of a track quad but still is good in the trails but mostly the 450s are designed for the track

[CJM]

You guys must understand 2 things:

1. The older 450 is like a 400 on steroids. Dump the wimpy 10.5:1 piston and put a 12:1 in there and a cam and the 400 isnt even close. Even my highly modded 400 was no match for my 450. Heck in stock form it makes the 400 look bad but not to such a high degree.

2. The newer 450s 06+ are high revving, straight track machines. Even when modified they love to wind out. my buddy got close to the way a 400 torqueband is by doing a 490 kit and cam.

There is a reason the kicker is sought after by many over the e-start.

[OZ-T]

The thing that triggered the idea of getting rid of it was the splines or whatever you call them where the hub connects to the axle stripped out. I really don't feel like spending 300 on a new axle and hubs. But if I sell it I would replace them anyways before I sold it, so I will probably just replace it and keep it. I love the ole girl and It would be too hard to see her go.

I feel the same way, even though my 400 isn't as spry as she used to be, I just couldn't ever see getting rid of her. Been so good to me all the time I've owned it and given me more thrills than any dirtbike I've own in the past has. I would like to put 450R shocks on it one day and see what a difference that makes, the 400 shocks ride like an old farm truck and just beat the hell out of me on a bumpy trail.

[2001400exrida]

You guys must understand 2 things:

1. The older 450 is like a 400 on steroids. Dump the wimpy 10.5:1 piston and put a 12:1 in there and a cam and the 400 isnt even close. Even my highly modded 400 was no match for my 450. Heck in stock form it makes the 400 look bad but not to such a high degree.

2. The newer 450s 06+ are high revving, straight track machines. Even when modified they love to wind out. my buddy got close to the way a 400 torqueband is by doing a 490 kit and cam.

There is a reason the kicker is sought after by many over the e-start.

Great points here, however I will say any year honda 450 is going to be a torque monster vs the other 450's. Whoever said they're 440 whoops up on ported, piped, cammed, 450's is smoking crack, lol.

It's not fair to say that the 04/05's are more torquey than the newer honda's. It all depends on what kind of mods you're running. If you've got a stage 3 hotcam in your 04/05 it's not going to have the same torque as an 06+ with say a stage 1 or a stage 2. It truly depends on the mods you're running. stock for stock, yes the 04/05's pull the holeshots.

You want to ride something that likes to wind out, get on a yamaha or an ltr, those things love the upper rpm's.

my 426 will hang with my 450 which is piped and cammed, after about 40mph though the 400ex starts falling behind. I've run the 426 against stock 04/05's 450's and it's a close race. Stock for stock the 06+ 450 is faster than the 04/05 450's.

[400man]

Great points here, however I will say any year honda 450 is going to be a torque monster vs the other 450's. Whoever said they're 440 whoops up on ported, piped, cammed, 450's is smoking crack, lol.

It's not fair to say that the 04/05's are more torquey than the newer honda's. It all depends on what kind of mods you're running. If you've got a stage 3 hotcam in your 04/05 it's not going to have the same torque as an 06+ with say a stage 1 or a stage 2. It truly depends on the mods you're running. stock for stock, yes the 04/05's pull the holeshots.

You want to ride something that likes to wind out, get on a yamaha or an ltr, those things love the upper rpm's.

my 426 will hang with my 450 which is piped and cammed, after about 40mph though the 400ex starts falling behind. I've run the 426 against stock 04/05's 450's and it's a close race. Stock for stock the 06+ 450 is faster than the 04/05 450's.

reading this makes me laugh inside cause it makes me think of my brother's banshee and what he tells me all the time, "no matter how much you do to your 400, my banshee will always out run you" :D