Who here has helicoiled or repaired their oil drain plug

[2001400exrida]

These 450's are notorious for stripped oil drain plug. The problem lies in over torquing as well as the soft aluminum threads being easy to strip.

I personally have helicoiled 2 of these machines. Mine has about 10 oil changes since the helicoil and it is still holding up great. The only issue is that the side hole in the threads does not drain the oil. How much remaining oil am i leaving in the motor due to this? Does it really matter?

I have seen way to many people saying not to helicoil the drain bolt, yet i've had nothing but success with this method. A timesert will also work.

What are you experiences with repairing the drain hole and what do you recommend?

I see lots of guys just retap the aluminum, but ultimately you're left with the same thing, soft threads that can be stripped easily. My personal recommendation is to helicoil or timesert, you'll have a good permanent fix if done right.

let's hear thoughts!

[CJM]

Drilling out the old threads and tapping new threads is by far a stronger repair. Of course if your stupid enough like many to keep over tightening the bolt then of course it will fail.

Put a helicoil in not all the oils coming out as its blocked, over time that oil breaks down and then degrades and is a problem. A helicoil is only as strong as the threads it goes into..which coincidentally are made of the same aluminum as what the original bolt went into. So what the heck are you trying to get at? How can the helicoil be any stronger if its going into the same metal the original bolt failed in as well?

[2001400exrida]

Drilling out the old threads and tapping new threads is by far a stronger repair. Of course if your stupid enough like many to keep over tightening the bolt then of course it will fail.

Put a helicoil in not all the oils coming out as its blocked, over time that oil breaks down and then degrades and is a problem. A helicoil is only as strong as the threads it goes into..which coincidentally are made of the same aluminum as what the original bolt went into. So what the heck are you trying to get at? How can the helicoil be any stronger if its going into the same metal the original bolt failed in as well?

I see where you're coming from but i need to correct a few things.

Any heli coil that i have ever used is stainless steel, not aluminum, i dont' think i've ever heard of an aluminum heli coil. The way a helicoil works is when you put the bolt into the helicoil threads, the helicoil actually tightens into the aluminum, by putting the put into the threads it pushes those threads into the aluminum. Let me tell you i can get my bolt very tight into that helicoil and i'm betting it would have stripped it was the aluminum. It's not that anybody is stupid for over tightening, it's that we're talking about aluminum threads, it's a common stripped bolt on these machines.. The oil that does not come out, which let me tell you is a very small amount. Will mix with the new oil when you do a change. There's no possible way that after you run the new oil that the exact same .1oz's of old oil is going to stay in there with the new change. Do you really believe that the tiny bit of oil that stays in there is going to be the same oil after 10 hours of run time? the oil mixes, you will not keep the same old oz. of oil in there. Also, how much oil stays in there when that hole in the threads is blocked? i know i still put in .9qts with every change so it can't be much.

Like i said, i know re tapping is the easy way, but you're left with the same old aluminum threads, i think a permanent fix is to use a timesert or a helicoil on this bolt. I'll bet my bottom dollar i can torque my helicoil twice as much as you can torque new aluminum threads, therefore saying that a tapped aluminum thread is stronger than a helicoil is simply wrong.

how many changes have you done on your retapped aluminum? I can say i've done 10 changes on a helicoil with no problem, it hasn't budged. making a statement that a helicoil is not a good fix for this is wrong.

disclaimer: this is not a thread to start drama and please don't respond with offense. I'm giving my experience with this as i've helicoiled 2 bolt holes now and they have both worked great. And as i've mentioned one has been holding for 2 years and has at least 10 oil changes on it.

[Baileygunns]

The problem doesn't lie with the aluminum... Its no different then the rest of the engine case that has a million bolts torqued into it. The issue is 2 things... Over tightening and people don't clean the bottom of their engine from residual oil and dirt before and after oil changes. This dirt that's left on the cases tends to get on the treads of the bolt and some in the case threads themselves when putting the drain bolt back in. When putting the drain bolt back in with the dirt on it, it wreaks havoc on the threads and eventually boogers them up strips it out.

I've had 4 Honda 450Rs since 2009 and currently own 2... Haven't had an issue with stripping bolts yet. I couldn't begin to tell you how many oil changes I've done on just those machines in the past 4 years. Depending on whats happening in my personal life, I've been know to ride anywhere from every day to once a month... That's a lot of oil changes when you do them every to every other ride. Christ, I've been riding for a bit over 26 years on many, many different machines on and off road, lol.

A Heli-Coil threads in... It is possible (and does happen) that you can strip out a Heli-Coil by over tightening a bolt into it... Stainless steel or not, its still threaded into the same aluminum that the bolt would thread into if the Heli-Coil was not there. The last Time-Sert I did was in a 400EX head and ripped out with in hours of installing it... It was only as strong as the aluminum it was in.

Whats the best fix? Tap it to the next size and keep the treads clean when changing oil and don't over tighten. Heli-Coil and Time-Sert might "work" but why would some one want to leave any more old oil in their engine when changing oil then they have to? That's just silly. The objective is to get as much old oil out as possible.

[Rich250RRacer]

The problem doesn't lie with the aluminum... Its no different then the rest of the engine case that has a million bolts torqued into it. The issue is 2 things... Over tightening and people don't clean the bottom of their engine from residual oil and dirt before and after oil changes. This dirt that's left on the cases tends to get on the treads of the bolt and some in the case threads themselves when putting the drain bolt back in. When putting the drain bolt back in with the dirt on it, it wreaks havoc on the threads and eventually boogers them up strips it out.

I've had 4 Honda 450Rs since 2009 and currently own 2... Haven't had an issue with stripping bolts yet. I couldn't begin to tell you how many oil changes I've done on just those machines in the past 4 years. Depending on whats happening in my personal life, I've been know to ride anywhere from every day to once a month... That's a lot of oil changes when you do them every to every other ride. Christ, I've been riding for a bit over 26 years on many, many different machines on and off road, lol.

A Heli-Coil threads in... It is possible (and does happen) that you can strip out a Heli-Coil by over tightening a bolt into it... Stainless steel or not, its still threaded into the same aluminum that the bolt would thread into if the Heli-Coil was not there. The last Time-Sert I did was in a 400EX head and ripped out with in hours of installing it... It was only as strong as the aluminum it was in.

Whats the best fix? Tap it to the next size and keep the treads clean when changing oil and don't over tighten. Heli-Coil and Time-Sert might "work" but why would some one want to leave any more old oil in their engine when changing oil then they have to? That's just silly. The objective is to get as much old oil out as possible.

Over tightening is the culprit. Pay close attention to the aluminum washer that Honda provides on the drain bolts, they serve two purposes, one is to seal and the other is to prevent stripped threads. The washer is very soft and is the first thing you will feel "give" if you put too much torque on the drain bolt. Over time they will crush and mushroom out and no longer function as designed, letting you put too much torque on the drain bolt. Now you end up heli-coiling the hole. Keep a few spare washers on hand, and be careful tightening, especially if the washer is crushed.

[2001400exrida]

helicoil or timesert is still the best fix in my opinion. There is absolutely no question that a helicoiled hole is stronger than an original aluminum thread. if you don't see that i recommend doing some research on helicoils. retapping is the worst fix. As i mentioned a helicoil is tapped into the aluminum but when a bolt is installed it works in 2 ways. It tightens the helicoil against the aluminum......and it can be made much tighter. Some of these threaded aluminum bolt holes are on the verge of stripped almost before they are torqued to spec. That's the reason i don't torque my oil plug, i use a small socket and just snug it by hand, it's probably under the torque recommendation but that's fine with me, long as it doesn't leak i'm ok with it.

i agree the culprit is over tightening and the aluminum washers are the important part. There's a reason people use helicoils on all kinds of motor parts from sparks plugs to head bolts.....it's because they hold much better than retapping. Sure you could re tap a stripped head bolt or you could re tap a stripped spark plug hole, but the fact is a helicoil or timesert will work better. If you're really worried about the helicoil coming out you can even put some thread locker on it to help it hold the threads.

bailey if your timesert came out right after you put it in, you did it wrong. Those things will hold for a long time if you put them in right. As i've mentioned my helicoil has been in forever and it's not moving and the bolt gets tight as it should.

as for the old oil theory that's a misnomer. you're not leaving enough oil in there to make any difference at all. we are talking about 4 drops of oil. it would be no different than changing your oil without changing the filter. and as I mentioned it's not like the oil that stays in there the first time is going to be the same oil that stays in there for the next change. it's a moot point, such a tiny amount of oil. do you guys know what that oil galley is for? it's not there to drain excess oil......

[coryatver]

^ this guy knows what he is talking about unlike others in this thread! helicoil works great. Another thing drain the tranny from the neutral bolt. If you are a hard rider the normal drain bolt threads will go bad from case flex

[fomospede]

Over tightening is the culprit. Pay close attention to the aluminum washer that Honda provides on the drain bolts, they serve two purposes, one is to seal and the other is to prevent stripped threads. The washer is very soft and is the first thing you will feel "give" if you put too much torque on the drain bolt. Over time they will crush and mushroom out and no longer function as designed, letting you put too much torque on the drain bolt. Now you end up heli-coiling the hole. Keep a few spare washers on hand, and be careful tightening, especially if the washer is crushed.

atleast one guy here knows what the washer is for !! nobody own a torque wrench WTF

[2001400exrida]

that washer is very important. i bought 3 of them and they were like 2 bucks a piece for a darn washer! i had to drill mine out a hair because i helicoiled to a size larger so my bolt is bigger. they are what keeps the oil from leaking. i think what many people do is they don't have the correct washer so when it drips they try to tighten it more...then you end up with a stripped one.

I'm glad to see there's folks on here that understand how helicoils work and they understand the concept that a helicoil is often stronger than the original threads, especially with the case of aluminum.

So many people get set in there ways and don't keep an open mind to other people using different methods. In this case, tapping will work, but in my experience helicoil is a much more permanent fix.

[2001400exrida]

sorry double post, please delete.

[2001400exrida]

just helicoiled another one of these last night for a friend. He just picked up an 04 and previous owner had it stripped bad. So far my helicoil kit has really paid off! Don't tap the aluminum again people, get a good helicoil or timesert in there, take it from a guy who knows!

[DnB_racing]

just helicoiled another one of these last night for a friend. He just picked up an 04 and previous owner had it stripped bad. So far my helicoil kit has really paid off! Don't tap the aluminum again people, get a good helicoil or timesert in there, take it from a guy who knows!a solid insert compared to a coil insert in my opinion a far better option I've seen the coil type back out when removing the drain bolt,
on a bolt that is not being used (like drain) the helicoil type is fine but on a bolt that requires constant removal the solid inserts are a much better type of thread repair

[Thumpin440ex]

Tap it to the next size bigger standard or metric, put a new bolt in. Done and done. Heli's work fine when a certain size bolt is needed, but in this case the next size is just fine, will be like a new tank.

John

[Inspector]

I recently put in a timesert in a tranny case. I was inpressed with the process and outcome. I would use this again and would use instead of helicoil.

[IOWAracer]

There are torque specs for a reason, use them! I understand it's easy to do but I have never stripped anything using the spec and always putting on a new crush washer..

As far as the issue at hand the helicoil is the better option a small amount of loctite on its threads and you are golden! I much prefer this over re-tapping the whole it works better!

Broc B.

[sunco]

use an over sized bolt from the auto parts store & get the crush washer. People strip those bolts all the time, if you screw that one up then get the next one after that

[alanbmx]

a solid insert compared to a coil insert in my opinion a far better option I've seen the coil type back out when removing the drain bolt,
on a bolt that is not being used (like drain) the helicoil type is fine but on a bolt that requires constant removal the solid inserts are a much better type of thread repair

exactly! helicoils are not meant to be used for a fastener that is removed on a regular basis. Again use a torque wrench!