New Honda ATV's for 2014 confirmed. Will it be the 400X?

[RNL]

Heard some rumors, and ATVRider Magazine confirmed it after touring their plant in South Carolina. Honda will be releasing new atvs and side by sides heading into 2014. Now the question is what atv's? I'm thinking they will have a new big bore 4x4, and a new sport quad. Could it be an updated or redesigned 400? Or possibly a new 450r with efi and aluminum frame? With the relsease of the Pioneer, I think the side by side will be a sport model with long travel and a big motor. So what do you guys think, new 400 atv from Honda, or a new 450R..both?

[redrocker]

Bold new graphics

[Zakradu398]

^^ yup

[matt14c]

Prolly bring back yellow fenders for a couple years.. Relocate the key switch... Typical "new" Honda lineup

[RNL]

Prolly bring back yellow fenders for a couple years.. Relocate the key switch... Typical "new" Honda lineup

Lets hope not, but sure has been the pattern.

[Quinn4]

Well nothing new for the 2014 TRX450R http://powersports.honda.com/2014/trx450r.aspx

[RNL]

It was all utility quad upgrades. :ermm:

[Quinn4]

I'm super pumped the finally added a true diff locker to the foreman!!

[RNL]

It seems Yamaha and Can Am are the only ones committed the sport segment of atving these days.

[CJM]

Im not sure what everyones problem is with honda stuff. Yes its dated, but its the single most reliable manufacturer. Your average rider is going to run the quad in stock or near stock form for eons, only those that race or want to trick it out will bother doing so and thats a small %.

Do they sell lifted trucks usually? besides some special editions and limited numbers, no they dont. But people buy a truck and put a lift kit on it cause they want to. How is this any different?

Fuel injection isnt the end all, a carb is 10x as simple and easier to work on. EFI isnt all its cracked up to be, sure a power commander can be slapped on with just some predone maps, sure you can tune it yourself (how many actually REALLY know how?). EFI on a quad/bike isnt like a car, it doesnt take into account nearly as much as a cars computer can and does.

As for an AL frame..whats the big deal, steel might be heavier but its MUCH stronger.

Honda doesnt set trends usually, they ride out the wave for eons till its time to make a change. That could be years..

[Blodg]

^^^ I am with ya CJM. Two guys I ride with have the KFX450 and they and others I know are in love with the aluminum frame and EFI on the Kawi but the ones I rode don't handle near as well as a Honda 450R and I wouldn't buy one even though the reverse on a 450 is nice. And I would much rather tune a carb than EFI and most of us do the majority of our riding in the warm months so the full benefit of the EFI is not being used.

[CJM]

Im not impressed at all with the kawi, I find them ill handling and honestly the only nice thing is reverse.

If anything if I didnt own a honda id buy the suzuki 450 for the sheer fact it is among the best handlign quad out there and the EFI although not my fav does work pretty good. I mostly like them for the way they handle, for the price theya re about as mx ready as you can be.

[400man]

I would be impressed if they just upgrade the brakes and suspension using the 450r parts, since they will interchange anyways. leave the motor and everything else alone.

[Scro]

http://www.atvriders.com/atvmodels/honda-2014-sport-atv-trx.html

[OZ-T]

Im not sure what everyones problem is with honda stuff. Yes its dated, but its the single most reliable manufacturer. Your average rider is going to run the quad in stock or near stock form for eons, only those that race or want to trick it out will bother doing so and thats a small %.

Do they sell lifted trucks usually? besides some special editions and limited numbers, no they dont. But people buy a truck and put a lift kit on it cause they want to. How is this any different?

Fuel injection isnt the end all, a carb is 10x as simple and easier to work on. EFI isnt all its cracked up to be, sure a power commander can be slapped on with just some predone maps, sure you can tune it yourself (how many actually REALLY know how?). EFI on a quad/bike isnt like a car, it doesnt take into account nearly as much as a cars computer can and does.

As for an AL frame..whats the big deal, steel might be heavier but its MUCH stronger.

Honda doesnt set trends usually, they ride out the wave for eons till its time to make a change. That could be years..
Nailed it on the head, I hope the 400 continues to stay the same that way when I begin earning some real money I can just go buy a brand spanking new one off the showroom floor, always wanted to do that for some reason.

[2001400exrida]

I can't remember the last time i saw a stock or near stork 400ex that was more than 2 years old. Nobody leaves these things stock. The people that do are old and don't ride. Anybody on this forum have a stock 400ex? You don't have to race to put mods on these things. 400ex probably has the most abundant aftermarket parts of any machine and let's face it, nobody leaves these things stock. I can only think of 1 that i know of it's only because it's brand new. EFI is the future, the sooner honda can get it released the sooner people can start fine tuning their machines and the sooner we will have abundant fuel maps and setups. EFI has taken over cars, it's taken over motorcycles, and it's going to take over the dirt world as well.

Aluminum is a big deal, there's a reason every dirtbike in the race scene runs aluminum. Aluminum is generally 1/3 the weight of steel, yet half as strong. It does tend to crack instead of bend like steel.

The suzuki's handle great on the mx track, but throw them on a trail and you're gonna hate it. Honda makes great trail machines out of the box. The 400 could definitely use a suspension upgrade as well as a carb upgrade. THe EFI on suzuki is no different that the KFX or the YFZ EFI's. It's just been around longer so they've got it pretty well perfected with aftermarket tuning. THe YFZ will be there soon as will the KFX. I'm a big fan of the KFX's for the trails, the reverse is great and the throttle delivery is awesome.

[Longdong]

Keep them cheap so everybody can afford them. If you start adding a bunch of goodies all you due is drive the cost up.

[Stickman400]

Why does it say the 450 and 400 both have "adjustable long-travel suspension"? Neither of them are truly long travel and they must think people are idiots trying to say that for the 400s pogo sticks. I say leave the 400 be, maybe eventually add EFI and an aluminum frame to the 450 or make a "race" version of it but leave it be for awhile, parts are abundant and they are both stupid reliable.

[Black Sheep]

Aluminum is a big deal, there's a reason every dirtbike in the race scene runs aluminum. Aluminum is generally 1/3 the weight of steel, yet half as strong. It does tend to crack instead of bend like steel.

Not really. KTM still uses steel frames. While aluminum may be lighter, you need to use thicker material to get the same strength. So not much, if at all weight savings. There is also a reason why almost every pro quad racer removes the aluminum swingarms and replaces them with steel.

The real reasons manufacturers use aluminum comes down to two...one the bling factor...everyone likes aluminum and assumes that it is lighter. Two, it is cheaper to manufacture a frame out of aluminum vs. steel. With aluminum frames many of the sections are cast. The steering neck/front section of the frame and the rear swingarm pivot area. So what you end up with it two sections that are joined by several tubes of aluminum. Whereas a steel frame you have many pieces that have to be manufactured, and then welded together. That takes more time to produce say 75 individual pieces, and then pay someone to wled them all together.

[OZ-T]

I can't remember the last time i saw a stock or near stork 400ex that was more than 2 years old. Nobody leaves these things stock. The people that do are old and don't ride. Anybody on this forum have a stock 400ex? You don't have to race to put mods on these things. 400ex probably has the most abundant aftermarket parts of any machine and let's face it, nobody leaves these things stock. I can only think of 1 that i know of it's only because it's brand new. EFI is the future, the sooner honda can get it released the sooner people can start fine tuning their machines and the sooner we will have abundant fuel maps and setups. EFI has taken over cars, it's taken over motorcycles, and it's going to take over the dirt world as well.

Aluminum is a big deal, there's a reason every dirtbike in the race scene runs aluminum. Aluminum is generally 1/3 the weight of steel, yet half as strong. It does tend to crack instead of bend like steel.

The suzuki's handle great on the mx track, but throw them on a trail and you're gonna hate it. Honda makes great trail machines out of the box. The 400 could definitely use a suspension upgrade as well as a carb upgrade. THe EFI on suzuki is no different that the KFX or the YFZ EFI's. It's just been around longer so they've got it pretty well perfected with aftermarket tuning. THe YFZ will be there soon as will the KFX. I'm a big fan of the KFX's for the trails, the reverse is great and the throttle delivery is awesome.
Mine is stock and I have no plans of altering it much.

[OZ-T]

I can't remember the last time i saw a stock or near stork 400ex that was more than 2 years old. Nobody leaves these things stock. The people that do are old and don't ride. Anybody on this forum have a stock 400ex? You don't have to race to put mods on these things. 400ex probably has the most abundant aftermarket parts of any machine and let's face it, nobody leaves these things stock. I can only think of 1 that i know of it's only because it's brand new. EFI is the future, the sooner honda can get it released the sooner people can start fine tuning their machines and the sooner we will have abundant fuel maps and setups. EFI has taken over cars, it's taken over motorcycles, and it's going to take over the dirt world as well.

Aluminum is a big deal, there's a reason every dirtbike in the race scene runs aluminum. Aluminum is generally 1/3 the weight of steel, yet half as strong. It does tend to crack instead of bend like steel.

The suzuki's handle great on the mx track, but throw them on a trail and you're gonna hate it. Honda makes great trail machines out of the box. The 400 could definitely use a suspension upgrade as well as a carb upgrade. THe EFI on suzuki is no different that the KFX or the YFZ EFI's. It's just been around longer so they've got it pretty well perfected with aftermarket tuning. THe YFZ will be there soon as will the KFX. I'm a big fan of the KFX's for the trails, the reverse is great and the throttle delivery is awesome.
Mine is stock and I have no plans of altering it much.

[400man]

theres no way I could leave mine stock, id have to do something to it. im like that with anything I get

[blacknblue#2]

Keep them cheap so everybody can afford them. If you start adding a bunch of goodies all you due is drive the cost up.

Theres a problem with that statement....Their not keeping them cheap...2006 MSRP 6799.00.....2013 MSRP 7799.00. 1000 dollars higher for color changes

[RNL]

Theres a problem with that statement....Their not keeping them cheap...2006 MSRP 6799.00.....2013 MSRP 7799.00. 1000 dollars higher for color changes

Yup, and Yamaha lowered the cost of the base YFZ450 lower than when it was new in 04.

[blacknblue#2]

Im a honda guy thru and thru, Have been since the fastest quad you could buy off the showroom was a 300ex but if i was to walk into a dealership today and buy a new quad. It would be a YFZR. They are up to date on what a quad needs to offer in my opinion. As far as the aluminum frame debate. There is a reason most everything is going to that. It will flex more under riding situations. From my experience of probably owning 20+ 450Rs Stress cracks in the frame getting out of hand is normally what directing my quads to the part out stage. The aluminum will flex more before it stress cracks, plus the aluminum aint going to rust from the inside out like the steel frame will. Now in a situation where you slam a tree at 4th gear pinned is different, but neither frame will take that. The efi debbate i have no dog in that fight. They both have their pros and cons

[2001400exrida]

Mine is stock and I have no plans of altering it much.

that's what they all say, lol

what year is it and how long have you had it?

[Black Sheep]

As far as the aluminum frame debate. There is a reason most everything is going to that. It will flex more under riding situations. From my experience of probably owning 20+ 450Rs Stress cracks in the frame getting out of hand is normally what directing my quads to the part out stage. The aluminum will flex more before it stress cracks, plus the aluminum aint going to rust from the inside out like the steel frame will.

How many frames have you built?

[blacknblue#2]

How many frames have you built?

Havent built any, no desire to but i work in metal everyday. The way these aluminum frames are built they will flex more. Why? becuase of the size of material that can be used without worry of weight. with aluminum you can run a .250 or however big wall thickness, you run a .250 wall thickness steel frame and your gonna have a boat anchor The harder the material the more brittle we all know that. Would you ever see anyone run a carbide frame. Hell no its heavy and brittle. Plus going back to the rust issue. Ive seen several frames rust from the inside out which also helps play a big part in those stress cracks. How often you ever gonna see al aluminum frame rust out?? I sure as heck hope never

[Black Sheep]

Havent built any, no desire to but i work in metal everyday.

Well, until you do, then you can preach to me about frame flex and how they work. Just by reading your post I can tell you have no real idea why the TRX frames crack. They crack because sections of the frame flex too much and other sections do not flex enough. It has nothing to do with material. It is the design.


...with aluminum you can run a .250 or however big wall thickness, you run a .250 wall thickness steel frame and your gonna have a boat anchor

You don't need to run .250 with steel so your point is moot. But, you do need to run much thicker aluminum to get the same strength as steel and when it is all said and done there really is no weight savings


... Ive seen several frames rust from the inside out which also helps play a big part in those stress cracks. How often you ever gonna see al aluminum frame rust out?? I sure as heck hope never

rust vs. scratches...ever see an aluminum frame crack because it had a scratch or gouge in it? Have you ever seen what happend to the first Aluminum CR frames because the radiator shrouds wore a hole through the aluminum...yes plastic...a much softer material wore holes through aluminum and caused frame failures. Almuinum is used because it is cheaper to produce a frame vs a steel frame. You can cast many of the sections that if it was steel would be 20-30 seperate pieces that have to be welded to gether. Casting that secion cuts down on labor time.

Also, you have not addressed why do all the pro quads guys run steel swingarms instead of the stock aluminum. Must be some reason why they are adding weight to their machines ;) And while I am at it...LSR and Walsh both make steel sub frames to replace the stock aluminum ones. Again, why would you replace light aluminum with heavier steel?

[2001400exrida]

i think black sheep is in denial about the aluminum thing. There's a reason all atv's but honda have moved to aluminum and it's not ONLY because it's cheaper. There's also a reason all dirt bikes went to aluminum years ago, and it's not ONLY because it's cheaper. aluminum = cheaper, stronger, lighter.

You're doing it best though black sheep, hack off the entire front end and put 1 wheel on it with dirt bike forks, talk about some weight savings! :muscle:

also, the swingarms that guys are running aftermarket are chromoly......they aren't adding much weight because chromoly has a high strength to weight ratio. weight for weight it's much stronger than regular steel therefore, chromoly swingarms are not as heavy as normal steel. your point is MOOT. my chromoly TT swingarm is -1 inch so it's a little less material but only weights 3 lbs more than the stock aluminum.

i do agree though, aluminum is much stiffer, it won't flex repeatedly like steel. frame guards would be a must with aluminum.

[blacknblue#2]

First off Im sorry I will never voice my opinion ever again about a quad. I guess if i dont hand build one i have no right to voice my OPINION on the internet so Me and the 100K+ other members on this site need ot stop dicussing stuff right now. I do enjoy seeing your work but until you can prove to me ists all in design then ill stick to my opinion just the same as you do. I never once preached my opinion directly toward YOU like your Jerry Jackass comment asking me directly if i had ever built a frame. Now as far as it being design? well hmm lets see thats odd Joe Blows frame cracks at the foot pegs. John Doe's frame cracks at the steering stem Jack Knauffs frame cracks at the top rail and Pete Coonrods frame cracks on the bottom rail. Must be one big screw up of a design since every one cracks in different places and the funny thing is 250R frames, All crack, 400EX frames, All crack, 450R frames, All crack. So thats like 27 Years of bad designing. The front bumper support must be one rigid ******* since everything behind it cracks. Now KFX450 frames, Never seen on crack, YFZ450R frames, seen ONE crack. I never once said i thought AL was used for weight savings. I said i felt like it could be stronger because you can use more material with the same weight. I also never said AL was problem free. Just in my experience it gives alot LESS problems. And for swingarms? Lets see out of 3 Housers and a JB Ive cracked all 4 of them at some point. Ever cracked a stock one??? hmm actually I never have. Why did i buy aftermarket swingarms? same reason everyone else does, The pros have them so I gotta have it. All in all Im done, I have my opinion and you have yours, Apparently I just cant voice mine since....





How many frames have you built?

[Black Sheep]

i think black sheep is in denial about the aluminum thing. There's a reason all atv's but honda have moved to aluminum and it's not ONLY because it's cheaper. There's also a reason all dirt bikes went to aluminum years ago, and it's not ONLY because it's cheaper. aluminum = cheaper, stronger, lighter.

I guess you did not see what I have said twice now....it is cheaper to build and aluminum frame vs a steel one. Also, you guys keep saying ALL dirt bikes...ever hear of KTM...yep steel frames.

Denial...not at all. I have been fabricating metal for over 25 years, steel and aluminum. But, no one has addressed why the pro racers switch to steel swingarms and steel subframes and sacrifice weight savings.

[Black Sheep]

First off Im sorry I will never voice my opinion ever again about a quad. I guess if i dont hand build one i have no right to voice my OPINION on the internet so Me and the 100K+ other members on this site need ot stop dicussing stuff right now. I do enjoy seeing your work but until you can prove to me ists all in design then ill stick to my opinion just the same as you do. I never once preached my opinion directly toward YOU like your Jerry Jackass comment asking me directly if i had ever built a frame.

You post was a directed at me and they way you presented yourself you were talking down to me like I had no clue. I asked if you ever built a frame because until you do you can not understand the flexing abilities they need and were they need them. Now you are sinking to insulting me...fine. I can take it but that does not chage the subject or the fact you are not a frame builder and you are arguing with someone who is. Who is the jackass?



Now as far as it being design? well hmm lets see thats odd Joe Blows frame cracks at the foot pegs. John Doe's frame cracks at the steering stem Jack Knauffs frame cracks at the top rail and Pete Coonrods frame cracks on the bottom rail. Must be one big screw up of a design since every one cracks in different places and the funny thing is 250R frames, All crack, 400EX frames, All crack, 450R frames, All crack. So thats like 27 Years of bad designing. The front bumper support must be one rigid ******* since everything behind it cracks.

You can go back farther than that. Honda has had a reputation for cracking frames since the first CR Elsinores. frames need to flex and need the engine to hold them together. the engine is a integral part of the frames integrity. The main problem with the TRX 450R is the engine mounts. They are too thick. As a result the frame moves around the engine instead of with it. Had the engine mounts been made thinner they would not have the issues they have. Same with the foot peg mounts. The inserts are a lot thicker then the tube they are insereted to. One little gusset would fix it.


Now KFX450 frames, Never seen on crack, YFZ450R frames, seen ONE crack. I never once said i thought AL was used for weight savings. I said i felt like it could be stronger because you can use more material with the same weight. I also never said AL was problem free. Just in my experience it gives alot LESS problems. And for swingarms? Lets see out of 3 Housers and a JB Ive cracked all 4 of them at some point. Ever cracked a stock one??? hmm actually I never have. Why did i buy aftermarket swingarms? same reason everyone else does, The pros have them so I gotta have it. All in all Im done, I have my opinion and you have yours, Apparently I just cant voice mine since....

And how many Yamaha's and Kawasaki's are out there compared to Honda's? If you are breaking that many swingarms...they are not the problem...your suspension is. It is either to soft or not serviced enough. In my experience...99% of people out there do not service there shocks as often as they should...every 10-20 hrs.

But, you did make a valid point and why I rarely post on this site anymore...you buy things because thats what marketing tells you to buy...marketing says aluminum...so you buy into it. Marketing says Joe Pro has this swingarm so you need it. You can have your opinion...no one is saying you can't but, your post was directed at me. I don't try to tell you I know more about your job...don't respond like you know more about mine and not expect a response :)

[blacknblue#2]

Denial...not at all. I have been fabricating metal for over 25 years, steel and aluminum. But, no one has addressed why the pro racers switch to steel swingarms and steel subframes and sacrifice weight savings.

While Aftermarket ATV parts companies like Walsh and Lonestar may seem big to us truth is they are small. Most of them are ran out of a building not much more advanced than the common mans garage. Its easy for an aftermarket company to go buy 50 foot of steel tubing, cut it and weld it together. Its NOT easy for a small man to cast an aluminum swimgarm. Stock swingarms are tough because they are one piece. There is no weakk link. All my aftermarket swingarms have cracked.....at a weld

[2001400exrida]

I guess you did not see what I have said twice now....it is cheaper to build and aluminum frame vs a steel one.

I saw what you said and responded to it by saying that's not the only reason they use aluminum. I agree it is cheaper.


Also, you guys keep saying ALL dirt bikes...ever hear of KTM...yep steel frames.
Sorry i was mainly talking about the big 4 companies. ktm frames are chromoly steel. I'm a big fan of steel personally I'm just making the points that it does have it's benefits, but it also has its downsides. Being so stiff, the pro racers are constantly trying to get rid of the stiffness in the AL frames. Steel feels much better imo.


Denial...not at all. I have been fabricating metal for over 25 years, steel and aluminum. But, no one has addressed why the pro racers switch to steel swingarms and steel subframes and sacrifice weight savings.
i'm certain they run chromoly swingarms and subframes for added strength. How about this, Why do all sport quads run aluminum wheels? weight savings? you bet!

[Black Sheep]

While Aftermarket ATV parts companies like Walsh and Lonestar may seem big to us truth is they are small. Most of them are ran out of a building not much more advanced than the common mans garage. Its easy for an aftermarket company to go buy 50 foot of steel tubing, cut it and weld it together. Its NOT easy for a small man to cast an aluminum swimgarm. Stock swingarms are tough because they are one piece. There is no weakk link. All my aftermarket swingarms have cracked.....at a weld

I have been to LSR's facility...it is HUGE...45,000 sq ft. 23 cnc machines. They have the means to build whatever they want. They will build you a steel, chromoly steel, aluminum, or titanium frame.

Stock aluminum swingarms tough...I'll take a picture of my XR 650R's cracked aluminum swingarm. When Honda raced the Aluminum framed XR 650R in Baja 1000, the frames were toast. Same thing with the CRF's

[Black Sheep]

Sorry i was mainly talking about the big 4 companies. ktm frames are chromoly steel. I'm a big fan of steel personally I'm just making the points that it does have it's benefits, but it also has its downsides. Being so stiff, the pro racers are constantly trying to get rid of the stiffness in the AL frames. Steel feels much better imo.

Agreed, The 4 companies have been trying since they introduced the aluminum frames to get them to flex more as they are to rigid. Most Factory Supercross frames are replaced after two races because of cracks.



i'm certain they run chromoly swingarms and subframes for added strength. How about this, Why do all sport quads run aluminum wheels? weight savings? you bet!



LOL...don't forget they are wrapped in rubber for protection ;)...I stopped running aluminum wheels because I destroy them before my tires wearout. I run hypers and have yet to destroy a wheel.

[CJM]

I find this pissing match very funny....

Do the AL frames break? You betcha! Not only do they break, but b/c they are a component frame you would THINK you could buy the individual part. Nope gotta buy the entire thing from the dealer or find someone parting it out. The YFZ is notorious for busted subframes and frame rails busting. They also cant be welded all that easy b/c they are made of cast AL... Same goes for the DS450 and the others made of AL. Anything thats abused will break.. Also I find it interesting.. the pros seem to be using CUSTOM steel frames mostly.. I wonder why?

Yea Ill take my heavy arse steel frame..thanks.

[2001400exrida]

I find this pissing match very funny....

Do the AL frames break? You betcha! Not only do they break, but b/c they are a component frame you would THINK you could buy the individual part. Nope gotta buy the entire thing from the dealer or find someone parting it out. The YFZ is notorious for busted subframes and frame rails busting. They also cant be welded all that easy b/c they are made of cast AL... Same goes for the DS450 and the others made of AL. Anything thats abused will break.. Also I find it interesting.. the pros seem to be using CUSTOM steel frames mostly.. I wonder why?

Yea Ill take my heavy arse steel frame..thanks.

i find it funny that you find it funny yet still chime in with what i will call....funny facts.

first of all, yfz's are no more notorious for busted sub frames than the honda's. which is why people put the chromoly subs on.

most pros that i see at the races that i attend are running the aluminum frames with chromoly sub frames. the honda's run custom chromoly frames, but you don't see many yfzr's/kfx's/ltr's running steel frames. AT least not the races i go too.

also, where did you get the information about not being able to replace parts of the frame? i know for a fact you can do that.

i'll take my steel frame too, but just because i have a steel frame doesn't mean i'm going to completely ignore the benefits of an aluminum frame by only pointing out the negatives.

[Baxter]

Why does Honda need to build a new 400x and 450r ?
The market is not there. I do see a TRX125r and something to go after the 700cc+ 4wd market. SxS is a golden ticket at the moment but it will deminish like everything else.

[Blodg]

Sounds to me like Black Sheep knows what he is talking about, thanks for the input...

[CJM]

I wasnt even talking about you Ryan Schaefer. you must be paranoid. But hey, thanks for playing....

[400man]

:tired: haha my eyes hurt from reading all this. but on the subject, I don't have access to a tig welder or any ways to weld aluminum to repair anything my self, so I just prefer my old stock steel frame. I got a small Lincoln flux core wire welder that works perfect for steel frame repairs, I gusseted it a little bit and haven't had any trouble at all with cracks or anything, so it works for me.

[2001400exrida]

I wasnt even talking about you Ryan Schaefer. you must be paranoid. But hey, thanks for playing....

Oh no, not the full name. I"m usually in big trouble when the full name comes out.

Marc, Instead of getting personal and trying to use my full name in some attempt to belittle me. Why not address the topic just as I have. You mentioned the component aluminum frames can't have just certain parts of it replaced. They can. You also mentioned all the pros aren't running aluminum but rather custom steel. I stated that most pros that are running suzuki, kawi, or the yfzr, are running the aluminum frame with a chromoly sub. I'm not asking you to argue you with me, but at least stay on topic without making things personal.

Also, Black Sheep definitely knows his stuff, he's a custom frame building SOB.

[blacknblue#2]

All this talk about frame flexx reminds me of a part that i used to machine. It was made out of inconel. We called it "memory metal". The part was called a dogbone It was for General Electric and was used at the test facilities for their GE90 jet engines. We bored 2 3.625 holes in this part and bored them opposite of eachother. For example the center line of 1 hole was l and the center line of the other hole was - (l-) When the engine was started on the stand the thrust of the motor would straighten this dogbone out to where the center line of both holes were --. The engine would run like this for 100+ hours then shut down. 12 hours after shutdown the "dogbone" had regained its original bore center line of l-. Now thats flexx haha

[RNL]

Lots of different views for sure on here. I dont need an aluminum frame or even efi, just looking for a bit more pep I guess. Just curious if anyone had any background in the 90's on the XR bikes from Honda. I know for a while the XR 400 had a hop up kit from Honda you could get. How about they leave the 400 alone but offer something like this to the customer? Do they still offer the HRC kit for the 450R?

[OZ-T]

that's what they all say, lol

what year is it and how long have you had it?

2002, had it for about a year. I'd rather have a 250R for speed and will likely go that route when I can and just use the 400 for trails.

[HondaRacing83]

After reading all this ive came to the conclusion 01400exrider or whatever is a complete ****ing idiot

[beastlywarrior]

Put more adjustable reservoir shocks on it and an hrc kit with a cam with little higher lift and airbox lid

[Stickman400]

After reading all this ive came to the conclusion 01400exrider or whatever is a complete ****ing idiot

Lol, I gotta x2 this. Idk what the deal is between him and Marc but even disregarding that he is getting on my nerves too. Every post Marc comments on he is right there to reply with some smartass remark that's the complete opposite of what he said. And half of what he says is not even worth reading. Now watch him go after me.

[RNL]

Put more adjustable reservoir shocks on it and an hrc kit with a cam with little higher lift and airbox lid

Yup, just offer the old XR 400 cam.

[ben300]

[QUOTE=Stickman400;4339865]Lol, I gotta x2 this. Idk what the deal is between him and Marc but even disregarding that he is getting on my nerves too. Every post Marc comments on he is right there to reply with some smartass remark that's the complete opposite of what he said. And half of what he says is not even worth reading. Now watch him go after me.[/QUOTE

stick, he follows mark all over the interwebs. if you ever notice, no mater what mark posts, he has something to say. marc could be on a forum about growing tulips, and dudes gonna go there and argue with him. he practically stalks marc. does it over on the "org" as well. its almost obsessive in a lot of ways. ....generally (and i feel i have a good knowledge based relationship with marc on here), marc posts excellent information on here and chimes in his two sense when needed. this dude just follows him, and occasionally adds something useful, but usually is just here to argue. wish the mods would just do something about it. it gets old.


anyways...back on topic.


i wish theyd update the suspension on the 400, offer a hop up kit, with a cam similar to the HC stage 2 and a piston with a compression ratio similar to the 11:1 wiseco, and i wish they would take and modify the plastic off the 400 and put i on the 450.

id day a fuel injected 450 would be nice, but i just prefer the carb. sure, its harder and a lot more time consuming to tune, but there are so many things that can go wrong with an FI system. i just dont have the time or knowledge of FI's to really work on one.

[ben300]

id also love for honda to make a renegade competitive sport/utility hybrid

[CJM]

I think your right ben, that would be the ticket to fix up the ol' 400. Puts it in ltz/kfx/dvx power territory and above while still keeping it pretty stupid simple.

i also REALLY wish they would put a better swingarm on it, even the longer swinger off a 450 would be an improvement. Dated or not the reason many like them is they are simple and easy to repair. Plus out of the box they are pretty dang good for what they are.

I wouldnt have sold mine, but Im almost positive the crank was going and I had enough tinkering with it. maybe Ill nab another one someday.

[OZ-T]

id also love for honda to make a renegade competitive sport/utility hybrid

I think Yamaha makes one of those. I am not a Yami person so wouldn't really know, but I seen a lady riding around on a gray Raptor like looking Yamaha sport quad today, but it had slightly bigger tires, sat higher off the ground, and had a differential under the rear and a small rack on the back. Figured it was one of those hybrid sport quads. Also had an automatic transmission as well.

[beastlywarrior]

id also love for honda to make a renegade competitive sport/utility hybrid

I'm waiting for a wolverine 700 lol

[400man]

I think Yamaha makes one of those. I am not a Yami person so wouldn't really know, but I seen a lady riding around on a gray Raptor like looking Yamaha sport quad today, but it had slightly bigger tires, sat higher off the ground, and had a differential under the rear and a small rack on the back. Figured it was one of those hybrid sport quads. Also had an automatic transmission as well.

that was a 450 wolverine im pretty sure. I had a old 350 wolverine for a little while, fun bike to play around the trails and small mud holes on, but it lacked power for hills or anything, and the 4wd was full time. same motor as the Yamaha warrior. the 450 though is water cooled.

[beastlywarrior]

that was a 450 wolverine im pretty sure. I had a old 350 wolverine for a little while, fun bike to play around the trails and small mud holes on, but it lacked power for hills or anything, and the 4wd was full time. same motor as the Yamaha warrior. the 450 though is water cooled.

Same as the big bear, similar to the warrior

[2001400exrida]

After reading all this ive came to the conclusion 01400exrider or whatever is a complete ****ing idiot

you are certainly entitled to your opinion. maybe keep it to yourself next time, especially since it's offensive. same goes for you ben. i'm not concerned with what you think about my posts, but keep your negative trash talk to yourself.

[HondaRacing83]

Wahhhhhhhh

[ben300]

you are certainly entitled to your opinion. maybe keep it to yourself next time, especially since it's offensive. same goes for you ben. i'm not concerned with what you think about my posts, but keep your negative trash talk to yourself.

I certainetly will not keep it to myself. The fact remains is you follow Marc around the the web, and can't help but post on any thread that he posts. Just admit it, you have a bit of a man crush on Marc, are threaded by his knowledge and the helpful information he posts, and you probably get a serious chubby posting a rebutle to anything he posts.

I think I speak for the vast majority of the members of this site and of others when I say that you should take a long serious look at yourself before you post a response to anything that Marc makes a comment about. You have been ruining threads and have even gotten threads on this site closed lately becaus you can't help but to start pointless arguments. This site has lost a lot of traffic in the past year and we don't need any other loss of members becaus people don't want to deal with the arguments and fights that start on here. Grow up a little, take a deep breath, and if Marc posts something that you don't like, just avoid him, and act as if he doesn't exist. You'll grow as a person that way. It'll make the Exriders and TRXorg world a more friendly and fun place.

[2001400exrida]

you can speak for yourself and the other 2 guys in this thread, but don't speak fo the vast majority of the members of this site, you don't have that power. I've been on this site for over 3 years, i don't follow anybody around. When i see something that i don't agree with, regardless of who posts it, i'll give my input. You might think i have a man crush but let's be honest, the way you are defending him and confronting me....are you sure you're not the one with the crush on marc or myself? I'm certainly not threatened by his knowledge, i'm here to help the community. Now, go take a long serious look at your post, realize that it's nothing more than your opinion about me, and then get off your high horse. Take a deep breath, grow up a little, and quit whining. Just avoid me, and act as if i don't exist. You'll grow as a person that way. It will make exriders and trxorg a much more friendly and fun place.

this thread got personal when people started throwing out names, like when you called me a bleeping idiot and when marc used my full name because he though i was attacking him. All i did was give my opinion about the AL frames and yes i did correct him about a few things that i felt were incorrect. you can replace sections of the AL frames, he said you couldn't. Why do you get bent out of shape about that guys? This thread started with opinions, and it's ended with you resorting to name calling and completely ruining it. Blame me if you want, but let's read the previous pages.....your childish comment should have been kept to yourself, you say you dont' want member loss and that i start pointless arguments......yet you sit there and call me a ****ing idiot?

[ben300]

you can speak for yourself and the other 2 guys in this thread, but don't speak fo the vast majority of the members of this site, you don't have that power. I've been on this site for over 3 years, i don't follow anybody around. When i see something that i don't agree with, regardless of who posts it, i'll give my input. You might think i have a man crush but let's be honest, the way you are defending him and confronting me....are you sure you're not the one with the crush on marc or myself? I'm certainly not threatened by his knowledge, i'm here to help the community. Now, go take a long serious look at your post, realize that it's nothing more than your opinion about me, and then get off your high horse. Take a deep breath, grow up a little, and quit whining. Just avoid me, and act as if i don't exist. You'll grow as a person that way. It will make exriders and trxorg a much more friendly and fun place.

this thread got personal when people started throwing out names, like when you called me a bleeping idiot and when marc used my full name because he though i was attacking him. All i did was give my opinion about the AL frames and yes i did correct him about a few things that i felt were incorrect. you can replace sections of the AL frames, he said you couldn't. Why do you get bent out of shape about that guys? This thread started with opinions, and it's ended with you resorting to name calling and completely ruining it. Blame me if you want, but let's read the previous pages.....your childish comment should have been kept to yourself, you say you dont' want member loss and that i start pointless arguments......yet you sit there and call me a ****ing idiot?

just drop it. let the thread get back on topic before it gets locked.





BACK ON TOPIC:

as for the raptor/wolverine/big bear route that honda could go..i would hope that they would actually make a dedicated model, specific model, to go straight after the renegade. none of these things like the renegade/outlander or sportsman 850/scrambler where its the same motor and chassis combo, only difference being that one has sportier plastic and no rack. i think honda could do great with model like this. the only issue that i see with this, is they currently do not have a motor that they could just throw into a new chassis/drive train combination that could be in the same category as the rotax motors in the renegade/outlander. they'd have to do a completely new motor, and maybe that will just be the case if they come out with a new big bore utility.


another really cool idea that i would like to see, and this idea is COMPLETELY out in left field, but i would LOVE to see them come out with a school boy/sport class/a-b-c class/pro class legal TRX250R based off the 450r chassis with a crf250 motor in it to compete against the Apex 250f quad. Cody Collier and westley wolfe are completely dominating not only the schoolboy(13-15) class at the GNCC's, but they are also winning the morning overall's on the apex 250 quads, at the age of 13 too!. ive personaly been passed by the both of these kids on these quads and they literally are hauling the mail! it would be awesome to see honda come out with something like this so that the average joe can afford to by them selves an one of these bikes and build it the way they want it considering the apex 250/450 is like MSRP $11K+. I dont see why yamaha hasnt done this either considering that the Apex 250/450 use yz250f/yfz450 motors and the yfz chassis. it would give ppl more options, and would help a lot of guys, IMO, step up faster in ability to the bigger bikes or in the faster classes.

[RNL]

just drop it. let the thread get back on topic before it gets locked.





BACK ON TOPIC:

as for the raptor/wolverine/big bear route that honda could go..i would hope that they would actually make a dedicated model, specific model, to go straight after the renegade. none of these things like the renegade/outlander or sportsman 850/scrambler where its the same motor and chassis combo, only difference being that one has sportier plastic and no rack. i think honda could do great with model like this. the only issue that i see with this, is they currently do not have a motor that they could just throw into a new chassis/drive train combination that could be in the same category as the rotax motors in the renegade/outlander. they'd have to do a completely new motor, and maybe that will just be the case if they come out with a new big bore utility.


another really cool idea that i would like to see, and this idea is COMPLETELY out in left field, but i would LOVE to see them come out with a school boy/sport class/a-b-c class/pro class legal TRX250R based off the 450r chassis with a crf250 motor in it to compete against the Apex 250f quad. Cody Collier and westley wolfe are completely dominating not only the schoolboy(13-15) class at the GNCC's, but they are also winning the morning overall's on the apex 250 quads, at the age of 13 too!. ive personaly been passed by the both of these kids on these quads and they literally are hauling the mail! it would be awesome to see honda come out with something like this so that the average joe can afford to by them selves an one of these bikes and build it the way they want it considering the apex 250/450 is like MSRP $11K+. I dont see why yamaha hasnt done this either considering that the Apex 250/450 use yz250f/yfz450 motors and the yfz chassis. it would give ppl more options, and would help a lot of guys, IMO, step up faster in ability to the bigger bikes or in the faster classes.

I truly think this is already a concept quad the manufacturers have built. A 250f motor in a lightweight chasis is going to happen, just a matter of when. If not for the economy crash a few years back and the explosion of side by sides they would already be in production.