This site is a breath of fresh air!

[troybilt]

I think I'll hang out here for awhile. LOL!

[Mony25]

Hopefully none of that bs migrates over here.

[troybilt]

Hopefully none of that bs migrates over here.

Agreed! Its getting harder and harder to sort thru the BS to actually get good information.

[Pumashine]

Does Dave visit this site? I know I have seen Wade over here.

[troybilt]

Does Dave visit this site? I know I have seen Wade over here.

yes he does, I know I've seen him over here.

[Meat]

So whats the story....

[Pumashine]

Wilkinson is straight up with members here. He gives you a chance to right your wrong before banning you unlike the other site.

[Motofool250r]

*sticks head up above desk* looks around hrm no sheeple yet i think were safe.

meat check out the esr case thread on the .net if your wondering what were talking about

[wes350x]

Man that site has went down over the past 2 years.... The drama is kind of funny though

[atv fan 28]

Am i allowed to post over here???

[etccb]

Am i allowed to post over here???
debateable...

[etccb]

Wilkinson is straight up with members here.
Yep, very fair.

[troybilt]

Am i allowed to post over here???

Just keep it classy.... :)

[atv fan 28]

Just keep it classy.... :)


Thanks for your blessing Troy... :)

[troybilt]

Thanks for your blessing Troy... :)

no problem... btw that was me txting you while we were driving back from the dunes... Dan was driving.. :D

[Motofool250r]

Am i allowed to post over here???

depends can you drive to cinder hills with me for a race?

[atv fan 28]

no problem... btw that was me txting you while we were driving back from the dunes... Dan was driving.. :D


Oh no!!! I was half drunk while i was texting you. So if i said something bad about you, i do apologize!! :)

[troybilt]

Oh no!!! I was half drunk while i was texting you. So if i said something bad about you, i do apologize!! :)

LOL! I shrugged it off. It was Saturday night after all.

[atv fan 28]

im glad your motor didnt blow like i had somewhat hoped for... damn im cold hearted!!

[troybilt]

im glad your motor didnt blow like i had somewhat hoped for... damn im cold hearted!!


LOL, nope... just shot half the reeds thru the cylinder.

[Pumashine]

LOL, nope... just shot half the reeds thru the cylinder. Have you figured out why this low hour motor had the reeds break?

[troybilt]

Have you figured out why this low hour motor had the reeds break?

Cause it sucks so hard. LOL!

The reeds weren't new, only the top end and fresh bearings etc... they could have been weak from day one. I'll put some fresh ones in it when I get it back. Might go with a modified stock Artic Cat reed cage for more low end. Carbon fiber reeds are prone to breaking.

[troybilt]

I've always kind of agreed with Neil as the best reed cage setup being the Boyesen with the RL-19 reeds, bamboo or whatever they are made from... I haven't looked if Boyesen makes a rad valve for the Artic Cat or not. Its on my to do list.

[tbone250r]

It's a shame...I got a lot of info and help from that site when I first joined. Thankfully a few of you guys migrated over here to continue the good threads.

I think we can kick this 250r forum back in to gear, I really don't know anywhere else to go. .NET turned into Bluetraxx all of a sudden

[Pumashine]

I think we can kick this 250r forum back in to gear Yes, that's what I was thinking. Just can't find the like button and I got to find out how to get my Avatar set up.

[troybilt]

If I could figure out how to keep that John Deere ad from poping up I'd be all set

[Motofool250r]

If I could figure out how to keep that John Deere ad from poping up I'd be all set

x2

[Pumashine]

That John Deere is a small price I have to pay for sanity. Troy, do you get Wilkin250r to allow you Avatar? I see you and Dan are the only ones who have them.

[troybilt]

That John Deere is a small price I have to pay for sanity. Troy, do you get Wilkin250r to allow you Avatar? I see you and Dan are the only ones who have them.
I'm not sure. I never had to redo it, it carried over when the site changed.

[etccb]

I still have mine as well. I didn't have to reload it after the change.

[FL-R]

What site turned crappy. I've been here the whole time.

[TLR-Online]

If I could figure out how to keep that John Deere ad from poping up I'd be all set
x3

[troybilt]

What site turned crappy. I've been here the whole time.

da other site... t.r.x.2.5.0.R.net....

[derby]

Why did you guys not tell me the party was over here now?

[atv fan 28]

Why did you guys not tell me the party was over here now?

cause we dont like you... :)

[Motofool250r]

cause we dont like you... :)


i hear there is a new forum being created by a 250r guy

[troybilt]

There was a new forum created by a 250r guy, and we tried to get all of you to come over. LOL!

[Pumashine]

There was a new forum created by a 250r guy, and we tried to get all of you to come over. LOL! I have been talking with Trevor to see if he was able to put that site back up. It is not happening. Spiritraces bought a domain name yesterday and is going to start a new one. It is extremely time consuming and there is no guarantee it is going to work. I will support him the most I can. Its obvious why I am here. LOL!!!

[mx91a]

Anybody know what happened to Jason (ALL250R)'s forum? That had some good information on it I especially liked his "midrange engine development" thread.

[Pumashine]

Anybody know what happened to Jason (ALL250R)'s forum? That had some good information on it I especially liked his "midrange engine development" thread. I was going to go to Jason next. I believe Trevor said Jason bought All250r.com It shows it that way at his website. There is also a phone# so I will call him today. Jason was always helpful. Great all around guy.

[hontrx265r]

Troy best reeds.... oem!

[tbone250r]

If this forum had the categorized sections for motor, chassis, etc it would be good. But it doesn't......

[Pumashine]

If this forum had the categorized sections for motor, chassis, etc it would be good. But it doesn't...... For the time being it is free and the mods here are professional. Members here are not permitted to sell there business so it keeps the site clean. Fresh air as Troy calls it. Tastes real good!!!!!

[hawaiiysr]

I come here almost daily. It can be kind of slow but if yo guys are going to start posting here it will pick up. I dont like the way .net has turned into a pissing match. I always keep my mouth shut when chet hits the fan. Like the rest of you i just want to share 250r info. Take your shoes off, stay awhile. Its nice to see you guys here.

[Pumashine]

Have you been riding Josh?

[04450r]

Wow,the air is alot cleaner here..lol I hadnt really been on here since they changed the layout. I have to say I liked it better before the change. BUT to not have to watch the drama,well worth it. It was like watching my favorite tv show,with commercials from my wifes soap opera.

[hawaiiysr]

Tony,
No i have not been riding.last time i touched any of my bikes was back in january. I broke my left wrist in the middle of january and ive been trying to heal ever since. Had to put a screw in because it was not healing on its own. Couple weeks ago i had to remove the screw because it was irritating my joint. I dont have full movement of my wrist and useage of my wrists up to a point sttill hurts. No riding anytime soon for me:( all i got is forums for now

[danhung11]

Oh no!!! I was half drunk while i was texting you. So if i said something bad about you, i do apologize!! :)

I think he was snooping through all of texts Wayne, haha!

[danhung11]

Nice signature Mike! :D

[atv fan 28]

I think he was snooping through all of texts Wayne, haha!

I think you set me up!!!! :)

[rablack21]

I'm glad to see all of you guys are still around. I was following the drama on the other forum up through Thursday, but didn't see what resulted. Just heard rumors. All I know is there seem to be a lot of bickering, and true knowledge and ideas were being lost in the abysmal pit of poo slinging. I value your input and sharing of idea and am glad you are all still gathered together.

[DezSled]

Wow..... I just read the whole thread.

I'm building an lt500 .... Funny how the same arguments happen everywhere!

[All250R]

I was going to go to Jason next. I believe Trevor said Jason bought All250r.com It shows it that way at his website. There is also a phone# so I will call him today. Jason was always helpful. Great all around guy.

Hey Tony, sorry I haven't called back yet. I've been pretty tied up during the day. When I moved to a new hosting provider, I had trouble importing the database for the forum. I didn't fix it because it seemed people were getting what they needed from these two sites. There is a lot of traffic on .net. I haven't kept up on the overall feel of the site, but I did read the thread in question, and it sounds like the manager there just banned your acct for 10 days. Maybe it's just time for everyone to forget things a little and let the dust settle.
Jason

[Pumashine]

Jason, you remember the site when Bill ran it. There was no salesman interfering with every post you made. We are here to help our fellow 250R brethren. Tell each other our experiences with problems that develop time and time again. We meet people that love the hobby as much as you and I do. This was why Bill set up the site. He did not plan on anyone making money off of it. He sold the site because it was too big of a burden. If we had know the site was going to be taken over by a shop that got banned here, we would have all pitched in and kept the site free of that shop.

You know first hand how you were drawn into a fight, made to look like an idiot then you would back off just because it did not feel right. Being ridiculed and bullied put a bad taste in many members mouths. The site is for the members. The site is the members. When a site is given to salesman that cares nothing for the 250r brethren and only his pocketbook then its got to change or the members will have to go somewhere else. There are many members who now do not go to that site anymore. There are other sites and FB.

What we all miss is the old days when you could be yourself and did not have to listen to someone that thinks they have almighty mind control of all the newcomers looking for help. Tony

[wilkin250r]

Puma, I'm not sure how to fix your avatar, it should have carried over to the new layout like the rest of ours did.

Now somebody PM the details on the drama...

[fearlessfred]

Jason, you remember the site when Bill ran it. There was no salesman interfering with every post you made. We are here to help our fellow 250R brethren. Tell each other our experiences with problems that develop time and time again. We meet people that love the hobby as much as you and I do. This was why Bill set up the site. He did not plan on anyone making money off of it. He sold the site because it was too big of a burden. If we had know the site was going to be taken over by a shop that got banned here, we would have all pitched in and kept the site free of that shop.

You know first hand how you were drawn into a fight, made to look like an idiot then you would back off just because it did not feel right. Being ridiculed and bullied put a bad taste in many members mouths. The site is for the members. The site is the members. When a site is given to salesman that cares nothing for the 250r brethren and only his pocketbook then its got to change or the members will have to go somewhere else. There are many members who now do not go to that site anymore. There are other sites and FB.

What we all miss is the old days when you could be yourself and did not have to listen to someone that thinks they have almighty mind control of all the newcomers looking for help. Tonywell said ,tony

[Motofool250r]

Puma, I'm not sure how to fix your avatar, it should have carried over to the new layout like the rest of ours did.

Now somebody PM the details on the drama...


pm sent

[troybilt]

Now somebody PM the details on the drama...

Wilkin, nothing new same old stuff from both camps, Anti-Carlos and Pro-Carlos, threads are just getting a little more heated than usual and the ban hammer came out, probably was a little overboard by the mods, but its only a temporary ban... no sense in getting into anymore of it here, probably shouldn't have created this thread if you could delete it that would be great. I've always liked this site more cause of the level headedness of the mods here.

[Pumashine]

I've always liked this site more cause of the level headedness of the mods here. Yes, that is where this site is superior to the other one. Good thread though. One person should not be controlling everything that is said if they are not a moderator. Keeps the site clean and refreshing!!!

[hawaiiysr]

What do mods do over at .net? NOTHING! They are selective on this and that. Dont jump in when they should and drop the hammer on stupid chet. Good example is pumashines signature. It said who his builder is and his number. Cant have none of that cause its a forum of an ad. But someone can start a tread that say says Look at my alligator R seat! Pm me if you want one.

It was better off back when Bill ran it. It was 250R topics all day long with no bickering. Just an exchange of information and experiences

[All250R]

Jason, you remember the site when Bill ran it. There was no salesman interfering with every post you made. We are here to help our fellow 250R brethren. Tell each other our experiences with problems that develop time and time again. We meet people that love the hobby as much as you and I do. This was why Bill set up the site. He did not plan on anyone making money off of it. He sold the site because it was too big of a burden. If we had know the site was going to be taken over by a shop that got banned here, we would have all pitched in and kept the site free of that shop.

You know first hand how you were drawn into a fight, made to look like an idiot then you would back off just because it did not feel right. Being ridiculed and bullied put a bad taste in many members mouths. The site is for the members. The site is the members. When a site is given to salesman that cares nothing for the 250r brethren and only his pocketbook then its got to change or the members will have to go somewhere else. There are many members who now do not go to that site anymore. There are other sites and FB.

What we all miss is the old days when you could be yourself and did not have to listen to someone that thinks they have almighty mind control of all the newcomers looking for help. Tony

I see. It looks like people are getting more vocal about him. I don't want to give any respect to the childish drama, but I'll add 2cents that hopefully adds some benefit for the group. My issue is dishonesty. When you lack integrity it puts everything into question regarding who you are, what you believe in, what you're qualified to state as evidence of fact, and how much trust people should have in your professionalism. You can win on that for a long while with many people as long as they're getting what they want, and he has, but it's a poor standard. Myself and many others are knowledgeable enough and have access to talented enough engineers with real experience that have no use for him or the forum as long as he's injecting his bizarre agenda where people are just otherwise wanting to share.

Maybe what is needed is an advertising-free forum that is invite only and all administration can be democratically decided on, such as when a member should be invited or asked to leave. This is what All250R was attempting to be sort of. So, I don't know if enough people could populate a more refined site like that for 2strokes. In the meantime however, he adds enough value for enough people that the site has probably seen the most traffic since he's been there in a while, if I were to guess. Things weren't perfect under Bill either. Basically, as superior of a design as it is, the 250R is not mainstream anymore. It's not ideal, but he blows enough hot air to help give the ship some beneficial momentum.

[tbone250r]

I wasn't around the 250r community when Builder X was banned from this site. Nor was I around when Builder X claimed to have no association with Builder X, so I really don't know the background info.

I think builder advertisement can still be a good thing. But I think there needs to be MORE THAN ONE builder who has a voice. Builder X is the only one who contributes to the other site, and it hurts the community. Neil also contributes quite a bit, but he is more reserved when giving his opinion on a certain matter.....which would be perfect if all the builders went by that. But Builder X is so brash and obnoxious with his self-advertisement that it turns a lot of people off, including me.

I would be on board with starting up a new site

[rablack21]

I wasn't around the 250r community when Builder X was banned from this site. Nor was I around when Builder X claimed to have no association with Builder X, so I really don't know the background info.

I think builder advertisement can still be a good thing. But I think there needs to be MORE THAN ONE builder who has a voice. Builder X is the only one who contributes to the other site, and it hurts the community. Neil also contributes quite a bit, but he is more reserved when giving his opinion on a certain matter.....which would be perfect if all the builders went by that. But Builder X is so brash and obnoxious with his self-advertisement that it turns a lot of people off, including me.

I would be on board with starting up a new site

I agree^^^^

But even more so than that, I think I would even be willing to pay an annual amount every year to keep it an advertising free forum. I have no problem with people talking about products and builders they have used and were happy with or not happy with. But my issue comes when someone is arragant and obnoxious with every response that they give. I don't care if you know all there is to know about 250r's, you don't have to be a prick in the way you talk. I think that is where the largest arguments have came from. Yes, some of this things he says are bizarre and/or questionable, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. The real problem comes from how he posts on topics if you happen to disagree with him about something. This is just petty. It is because of things like this that kept me from posting anything on the ".net" forum for about a year or more, and I'm not just talking about "builder x" either. There have been others with this type of obnoxiousness also. This is just my 2 cents.

[troybilt]

Not sure if .net has this feature, but can't you just use the forums "ignore" function and then you don't have to read the arrogant and obnoxious posts that gets everyone all upset?

[Burns310r]

Not sure if .net has this feature, but can't you just use the forums "ignore" function and then you don't have to read the arrogant and obnoxious posts that gets everyone all upset?

Im told you can ignore him if you want and not see his posts. I think that would be an awesome thing to do for the people that dont care for him.

[Pumashine]

Im told you can ignore him if you want and not see his posts. I think that would be an awesome thing to do for the people that dont care for him.

That is a band aid for the real problem. If you do not see how XXX is degrading, you whats the point?

Jason you see it as childish. But I am not the only one who is looking for a solution. The part about choosing who and who is not a member was brought up by the member building the new website. This small group we are makes it difficult to support more sites. If hot air brings more viewers to the site then there is something not quite right.

[Burns310r]

That is a band aid for the real problem. If you do not see how XXX is degrading, you whats the point?



I guess the problem i have is that its only a small percentage of people that have a problem with Carlos's posts. Seems the majority are happy with him and his services. I definitely don't see it the way that your saying. And i would love it if ESR, Hybrid, anyone else would get on there and discuss and "promote there business". More power to anyone that's willing to do that. But what i see is why would any other vendor get on there and try to help and show what there products can do when the see how relentless the bashing is on BDT.

It just seems that you guys dont like him for what ever reason and your hell bent on saving the world from him. Which is unnecessary.. Everyone that has chosen to do business with him has been pretty happy from what i can see. I know Troy has had some issues, but even he admits there are other things going on there other than the work Carlos did.

I know im wasting my time talking about it, as you will most definitely not change your view... I accept that.. Its to bad something cant worked something out that benefited everyone.

[troybilt]

That is a band aid for the real problem. If you do not see how XXX is degrading, you whats the point?

Jason you see it as childish. But I am not the only one who is looking for a solution. The part about choosing who and who is not a member was brought up by the member building the new website. This small group we are makes it difficult to support more sites. If hot air brings more viewers to the site then there is something not quite right.

My advise, take as you wish.

The problem with creating an "exclusive" forum (which is basically what Macdizzy is) is you only get the guys that know their "stuff" already, so there is no questions asked an no real "life" in the forum. Basically what's there to discuss if you all know everything already... not a fun and vibrant environment. The 250r world shouldn't be exclusive, it should be inclusive cause we want the rest of the world to know what was and is the best quad ever made!

Ignoring people that irritate you shows decorum and class...

I've had similar issues in the past with XXX, I got the same litigation threatening emails, still have them in my inbox... I choose to move on and take things as they are, I help when I can and ask for help when I need it, what I do with the help is up to me.

I'll admit the bashing makes for good entertainment in an otherwise dull day, but if you all are going to continue to bash someone at least come up with new arguments instead of regurgitating the same stuff over and over.

[JackBrown1988]

bdtm 100% fan here ladies, 2 b clear up front.
sooo the drama queen pumashine ran over here n still sh*t flies. i may be just a bone head trucker n lost marbles. but let me tell you bud, if not 4 bdt carlos, i would own a 4 poke. none of you ladies helped when my esr took a piss new, not one except carlos. n i did not spend a dime with bdt for long time. the bad for me is when i post i an told i am a bdt lover. i am bdt. i am carlos. mi opinion is sh*t, miss pumashine jumps my case when i say bdt is great. bud, i drive a big rig cross country n pass oreg 8/10 weeks. let me stop by pumashine and shake your hand bud. might learn who jack brown is. till then bud, stop being a b**t. jb

[fearlessfred]

bdtm 100% fan here ladies, 2 b clear up front.
sooo the drama queen pumashine ran over here n still sh*t flies. i may be just a bone head trucker n lost marbles. but let me tell you bud, if not 4 bdt carlos, i would own a 4 poke. none of you ladies helped when my esr took a piss new, not one except carlos. n i did not spend a dime with bdt for long time. the bad for me is when i post i an told i am a bdt lover. i am bdt. i am carlos. mi opinion is sh*t, miss pumashine jumps my case when i say bdt is great. bud, i drive a big rig cross country n pass oreg 8/10 weeks. let me stop by pumashine and shake your hand bud. might learn who jack brown is. till then bud, stop being a b**t. jbIs this jack brown truly a person or one of carloses other personalitys.If your ever in vegas, I willing to shake your hand

[JackBrown1988]

u got it bud. run into lv 2/3 xs year. loop from chi town, to ny, fl, tx, az, nv, ca, or, wa, mt, nd, mn, wi, into il. pm me contact, b through nv in 6/8 weeks. out of here. jb

[Pumashine]

Is this jack brown truly a person or one of carloses other personalitys.

Are you referring to "United states of Carla"? Does talk down about the site and its members!

[fearlessfred]

this guy and a few other only come out to play when people are bad mouthing Carla .read there posts . just for the record,I do not hate Carla or people that buy from him.I believe he should stay on his subforum and people that don't share the same view as him ,should stay off his paid for subforum.it will be great,just one great big bdt love fest.they can even have a pull your tower out of your carb day and Carla could sell them new towers and the tool to do it with

[04450r]

might learn who jack brown is.
http://youtu.be/H8OxKx6zKkQ

[Pumashine]

Yes I see what your saying Fred. If you take a look at his posts he comes on here to bad mouth ESR, this site and promote BDT. Bad mouth me all you want Carlos, you can't touch me. I'm way out of your league. :blah:

[Burns310r]

You guys are paranoid. That sure as hell isnt Carlos, he wouldnt be afraid to talk to you under his own name.


Watch out anyone that has anything good to say about BDT is one of them... OR EVEN CARLOS HIM SELF.... its a conspiracy i tell you.. lol


You guys crack me up....

[tbone250r]

In today's world....nothing surprises me....especially when it's on the internet

[Pumashine]

You guys crack me up....

Thats what were here for, your entertainment. Truthfully though, you and Carlos are good 250r guys. I am glad you are watching his back.

[Burns310r]

I watch his like I watch anyone's. I just don't like to see good people get picked on. So I guess I probably step in with my. 02 when I shouldn't.

[Pumashine]

Hows that new Wurks pipe working for you Kyle?

[Burns310r]

The pipe makes amazing bottom endend power but doesn't pull as hard on top as I want. So I'm getting a few different types from Carlos to test. The current pipe I have would work great on a cross country bike. the pipe pulls really hard down low and you can short shift the crap out of . I just need a pipe that has more mid range and doesn't fall off on top

[etccb]

Thank you for an honest post about your pipe burns.
It is a real shame what goes on around the forums sometimes. Carlos posted that on his dyno your pipe made 3.5 more hp then a trx5 and beat it everywhere.
Eventually the truth will come out from somewhere.

[Burns310r]

Thank you for an honest post about your pipe burns.
It is a real shame what goes on around the forums sometimes. Carlos posted that on his dyno your pipe made 3.5 more hp then a trx5 and beat it everywhere.
Eventually the truth will come out from somewhere.

Im not sure if my exact pipe made more power everywhere. My pipe is made for more bottom end. Thats what we where going for.. I wanted to be able to leave the bike in 3rd gear in the corners and carry more speed without down shifting... My goal is to make this bike ride as close to a 4stroke as possible. Carlos delieverd exactly what i asked for... But i guess i didnt realize what i was asking for. I need a pipe with more mid range as well.

So Carlos and Kenny are building me a couple more different pipes. The rules of pipe making still apply to BDT like everything else. You have to give up something to gain something... I would like to compare my Wurks "bottom end" pipe against another bottom end pipe from another manufacturer. I bet it would do pretty damn good.

Needless to say this is no reflection on Carlos or the pipe, its a awesome pipe and pulls very good down low... I just need something that has more power up top...

Basically i want everything...hahahahah

[Pumashine]

Honesty is everything on the forums. Glad you like the low down power of your new pipe. I miss the top end of my Puma in-frame drag pipe by shearer. But if you need bottom end you have to give up some top end. The pipe builder is not at fault. An all around screaming pipe is just a dream.

[etccb]

I am sure that you will end up with a pipe that suits your needs.

[Burns310r]

I'm sure Carlos so get me exactly what I want. But until then my trx5 is not going anywhere.

[derby]

I have ridden 3 different pipes kenny has built over the years. All 3 were low end to midrange (even the one that was supposed to be a drag pipe). The 3 pipes I have were not related to bdt in any way. I like the low end to mid range pull best in the sand. I still have one of kenny's pipes on my duner.

[Burns310r]

I also saw about 10 degree temp drop with my Wurks pipe over my TRX5...

[8686]

Sounds like they made a nice MX pipe for you, Burns.

[Burns310r]

I would say the first pipe i recieved would be better suited for a XC rider... Tons of bottom end grunt, with a mild mid-top power band.. Im getting another couple variations to test. Im going to need something that hits harder in the mid range, and bleeds both towards the bottom and top. LIke i said, im greedy and want it all...muhahahahahaha

[tbone250r]

So do you wanna part with that first low-mid pipe you have :)

XC guy right here

[danhung11]

How the hell did this turn into a BDT Wurks pipe thread? :rolleyes:

[Burns310r]

How the hell did this turn into a BDT Wurks pipe thread? :rolleyes:

Cause im sneaky sneaky......muhahahaha....

[Burns310r]

So do you wanna part with that first low-mid pipe you have :)

XC guy right here

No i suspect will be sending it back as trade for a pipe that suits my riding better. But im holding on to it for the mean time to do a comparison.

[danhung11]

Cause im sneaky sneaky......muhahahaha....

Learning from the Best! :p

[rablack21]

No i suspect will be sending it back as trade for a pipe that suits my riding better. But im holding on to it for the mean time to do a comparison.

I'm not sure what your needs are, Kyle, but I know I mostly use 3rd and 4th when I am racing. Of course, I do have to clutch quite a bit in the corners in order not to drop to 2nd on non-burm turns. My third gear could use to pull a little more than it does now. Although it may be as good as it's gonna get seeing that I am running a sparks mx pipe, with 93 pump gas on a 310cc kit. I have really been considering switching to race fuel, but have been wondering whether the power increase is really worth it or not.

[Burns310r]

There is no power increase by using race fuel... The power increase comes from bumping compression up... You have to run race fuel to do that.

BTW im trying not to use the clutch in the corners, so i dont burn it up. Hence the quest for more power, so i can pull taller gears in the corners.

Im able to keep up at the nationals pretty well and i do pretty well in the local A class's.. Actually i do just as good on my R as i do on my Can Am. So its my riding ability holding me back, not the bike.

That all being said, i will never stop tuning, playing trying to find every advantage i can. Its just in my nature to tweak things until i cant find anymore.

[Burns310r]

Learning from the Best! :p

Just watching you Dan!!!!!;)

[rablack21]

There is no power increase by using race fuel... The power increase comes from bumping compression up... You have to run race fuel to do that.

lol. my bad, in my mind this was assumed.

I meant, is it worth the power increase to run higher compression and race fuel. A new dome is the cheap part. The continued use of race fuel is the expensive part.

So you don't use the clutch in 180° non-burm turns at all?

[Pumashine]

How the hell did this turn into a BDT Wurks pipe thread? :rolleyes: Understand that Burns is paying the big bucks to get what he wants. No matter which pipe builder he is using, he is the end user and just reporting what he is finding out. Point blank he was not satisfied with his Wurks pipe. So he is telling you it is not the best of the best. We are thanking him for an honest opinion. We don't all ride the same.

My LED Puma pipe works great down low and in the midrange. But the top end does not scream as loud as the Shearer. You will never get a great all around pipe. Meaning great bottom, mid-range and top end.

[Fear250r]

I'll get this right back on track...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiabeNR_q0U

[Burns310r]

Understand that Burns is paying the big bucks to get what he wants. No matter which pipe builder he is using, he is the end user and just reporting what he is finding out. Point blank he was not satisfied with his Wurks pipe. So he is telling you it is not the best of the best. We are thanking him for an honest opinion. We don't all ride the same.

My LED Puma pipe works great down low and in the midrange. But the top end does not scream as loud as the Shearer. You will never get a great all around pipe. Meaning great bottom, mid-range and top end.

I feel this is taking what i said out of context....

I am an end user for sure... And I am always honest... its kind of my code i guess... Anyways... There is no just 1 Wurks Pipe.. BDT is making several versions for each engine, and power range... I basically told BDT what i wanted, but it wasnt really what i wanted i guess... I told them i wanted more bottom end power.. So that's what i got, I didn't realize that i was going to cost me so much top end power..

Like you state, there is no best all around pipe... You have to give something to get something... So I asked for a different pipe that will fit my needs better... Its MY] fault, not BDT's that the pipe pulls where it does.

I honestly have only ridden a few pipes so I'm not an expert by any means, i do however know what i like and expect when i ride it. I still love my FMF fatty i run on my XC bike... Say what you want about FMF, but that Fatty is a great pipe.

So please do not take my words out of context..

[danhung11]

Burns, you need to try a LRD team B or a Paul Turner Eliminator pipe. I've also heard good things about a Sparks MX pipe but never run one of those.

[JackBrown1988]

2 funny. no bdt, no carlos here n pumawhine bit****g, bit****g more. bdt, bdt, bdt bash all day long 24/7. drama, drama, drama. u noting but a lot lizard pwhine. jb

[Burns310r]

Burns, you need to try a LRD team B or a Paul Turner Eliminator pipe. I've also heard good things about a Sparks MX pipe but never run one of those.

Anybody have one i can test...hahaha.... Ya the problem with testing pipes is it can get pricy...

I had a LRD adjustable BB pipe last year... I hated that pipe... MY TRX5 is a much better pipe than that.

[Pumashine]

I feel this is taking what i said out of context....

Sorry Kyle if you misunderstood. I was not saying there is anything wrong with the pipe. You got what you asked for. You just expected more. Believe me we have all been there. Disappointed until you realize you cannot get a pipe to do everything that fits in-frame. I had a talk with Matt Shearer. He explained to me that the pipe you (We) want could be built but it wound not physically fit in a trx250r frame. The OOF pipes are good examples. The pipe must be much longer than the length of the frame.

I understand what you are saying about moving the power to where you need it. That's the great thing about pipes. But you have to try a few different designs to see which works best for you. Sad part is you pay top dollar and actually buy the wrong pipe. The good part is they will exchange it for one you can use. This is the best part if nothing else working with a competent builder.

[Pumashine]

2 funny. no bdt, no carlos here n pumawhine bit****g, bit****g more. bdt, bdt, bdt bash all day long 24/7. drama, drama, drama. u noting but a lot lizard pwhine. jb

This is where the site gets real stuffy. Carlos, you are on my ignore list as should be with every member of this site. After you were banned you come back with all negative posts. Go away please.

[danhung11]

Anybody have one i can test...hahaha.... Ya the problem with testing pipes is it can get pricy...

I had a LRD adjustable BB pipe last year... I hated that pipe... MY TRX5 is a much better pipe than that.

If you were closer, we could try them both out. :D

[Burns310r]

If you were closer, we could try them both out. :D

That would be a fun day... I have gotten very proficient at swaping pipes around... I may start timing myself....

Im going to have to pull my motor next week... Im developing a crack again in one of my rear engine mounts.... Man i hate that... I may time myself pulling the R motor out of the frame... I bet i can do it in under 20 minutes.. Start to finish.

[danhung11]

That's horrible time, I think I could take an entire bike down in under 2 hours. :muscle:

[Burns310r]

Challenge accepted.......1...2...3... GO!!!!!!

[troybilt]

I think if you want to be serious you're going to need several pipes. The pros had a couple different pipes for each track. That is really what a works pipe is. Different conditions require different pipes. you might be able to pull enough hp that it simply won't matter like it did back in the day. I opted to go even bigger on the motor to get even more torque, so far hasn't worked out, but it will I'm confident.

[Burns310r]

I think if you want to be serious you're going to need several pipes. The pros had a couple different pipes for each track. That is really what a works pipe is. Different conditions require different pipes. you might be able to pull enough hp that it simply won't matter like it did back in the day. I opted to go even bigger on the motor to get even more torque, so far hasn't worked out, but it will I'm confident.

Thats what i thought i was doing with this 363... and actually it works great... I really like my motor alot, its just the fine tuning at this point... And my jetting is probably my biggest factor.

[rablack21]

Thats what i thought i was doing with this 363... and actually it works great... I really like my motor alot, its just the fine tuning at this point... And my jetting is probably my biggest factor.
Time for a Smart Carb! lol

Once you get one, you will be sitting at home relaxing, wondering what you used to spend all your time doing.

[Burns310r]

I want to try one..... BUT....they are not out yet... HOW DO I GET ONE...

[rablack21]

I want to try one..... BUT....they are not out yet... HOW DO I GET ONE...
Well, you can order a billet one if you really want it bad enough. It runs $775. But the cast ones are supposed to be out the middle of August and run $375. You can preorder a cast one now on their website if you want. http://www.powerapt.com/
I rode Doug's 363 stroker R, aka Oldschooler, and he has a 40mm billet smart carb on his. It is nothing short of awesome. It just works. No screwing with jets, or needles. Just a fine tuning knob for low speed and an idle knob, both external.

[Burns310r]

UGGG $700 bones... thats probably out of my price range right now.

[troybilt]

Or you can order one of these kits and go closed loop EFI for the same money!!

http://www.ecotrons.com/400cc_to_800cc_Engine_EFI_kit.html

I think I'm going this route since I need a programmably ignition anyway, which is included with this setup.

[Burns310r]

I think i will stick with the smart carb.... But man, that price... I will probably just wait for a cast version..

[wilkin250r]

Are you sure you can do that, Troy? I haven't researched much of it, but I think you might be limited to open-loop EFI. Not only will the premix oil clog the o2 sensors, but any unburned hydrocarbons escaping through the open exhaust port will read as a false rich mixture.

[jfwyatt]

Are you sure you can do that, Troy? I haven't researched much of it, but I think you might be limited to open-loop EFI. Not only will the premix oil clog the o2 sensors, but any unburned hydrocarbons escaping through the open exhaust port will read as a false rich mixture. that is the exact problem my buddy has run into with his lt500r he bought 1 of these kits last summer and still hasnt got it to run more than a few minute before he gets all kinds of trouble codes. if they made a system that didnt have an o2 sensor it might work. but the O2 sensor is the killing factor with a 2 stroke

[troybilt]

that is the exact problem my buddy has run into with his lt500r he bought 1 of these kits last summer and still hasnt got it to run more than a few minute before he gets all kinds of trouble codes. if they made a system that didnt have an o2 sensor it might work. but the O2 sensor is the killing factor with a 2 stroke

I sent that same question to the company to see. One thing you don't have to run closed loop, the CRF is not closed loop, LTR, etc... you just change maps instead of jetting. I'll keep everyone posted.

[jcs003]

I sent that same question to the company to see. One thing you don't have to run closed loop, the CRF is not closed loop, LTR, etc... you just change maps instead of jetting. I'll keep everyone posted.

troy, have you seen the most recent popular mechanics? i have a thread that died on the other site about a $20 EFI.

i can bump it for you

john

[wilkin250r]

Everybody has their own thing, and I would never knock anybody for trying. But I always thought EFI on a 2-stroke was absurd. There is a small benefit, because you can still use information from temperature and barometric pressure sensors to automatically adjust for temp and elevation changes, but I never felt you would be able to fully realize the benefit of the instant throttle response that EFI is best known for.

On a 4-stroke, if you stab the throttle at low RPM, you will starve the motor of fuel and it will stumble and have no power until fuel arrives. Accelerator pumps help significantly, but they are an imperfect metering and delivery device. EFI is much better because it will instantly deliver the exact amount of fuel, atomized to be easy to burn, so your next combustion cycle will have 100% power. Instant throttle response.

On a 2-stroke, it's all dependent on the pipe effect. If you stab the throttle at low RPM, I don't care if your fuel delivery is perfect or not, you don't have the proper pressure waves from the pipe to build power. You STILL have no power until you get on the pipe. And if you are already on the pipe, then you're high enough RPM with enough airflow through the carb that your throttle response is good already.

I'm all for new and cool stuff, but I just never thought EFI on a 250r was worth the effort.

[sangheraent]

Personally I feel like I'v been around here for a long time. I started reading this forum a couple of years before I even joined and bought my first 250r part. I liked it back then best forum I had ever been apart of. That "show your 250r thread" I casually ran across it on on google. I looked at the entire thread in like 3 hours and saved 30 pictures. I could only see the link pics because I wasnt a member.

I emailed the owner of .net when it was first sold I told them that no person with a business interest from the information should have moderation control of a forum. They agreed and did nothing. I personally love to talk about 250rs to anyone that will listen but but the site gave me a bad taste.

At one time the 250r community was the most civil and knowledgeable on the web. Its amazing how 1 person can cause such huge problems. Props to this forum for banning that person.

[DnB_racing]

Props to this forum for banning that person..... just an FYI he is still a member, just not under the same banned name,

[rustyATV]

On a 2-stroke, it's all dependent on the pipe effect. If you stab the throttle at low RPM, I don't care if your fuel delivery is perfect or not, you don't have the proper pressure waves from the pipe to build power. You STILL have no power until you get on the pipe. And if you are already on the pipe, then you're high enough RPM with enough airflow through the carb that your throttle response is good already.

That's not what these guys have reported experiencing.

http://youtu.be/Y91Jms6MyCY

[troybilt]

Everybody has their own thing, and I would never knock anybody for trying. But I always thought EFI on a 2-stroke was absurd. There is a small benefit, because you can still use information from temperature and barometric pressure sensors to automatically adjust for temp and elevation changes, but I never felt you would be able to fully realize the benefit of the instant throttle response that EFI is best known for.

On a 4-stroke, if you stab the throttle at low RPM, you will starve the motor of fuel and it will stumble and have no power until fuel arrives. Accelerator pumps help significantly, but they are an imperfect metering and delivery device. EFI is much better because it will instantly deliver the exact amount of fuel, atomized to be easy to burn, so your next combustion cycle will have 100% power. Instant throttle response.

On a 2-stroke, it's all dependent on the pipe effect. If you stab the throttle at low RPM, I don't care if your fuel delivery is perfect or not, you don't have the proper pressure waves from the pipe to build power. You STILL have no power until you get on the pipe. And if you are already on the pipe, then you're high enough RPM with enough airflow through the carb that your throttle response is good already.

I'm all for new and cool stuff, but I just never thought EFI on a 250r was worth the effort.

I don't think its absurd, I also don't think its the second coming either. You're either jetting with jets, needles and air screw or changing maps with EFI. Basically the same output. The new Bosch Lambda sensors are better, but even race gas can cause issues. A 2 stroke can create false readings cause the pipe will load up with unburnt mixture at low rpm's, so it is limited in capabilities. I need a programable ignition for my bike anyway and this comes with the system so I might give it a try.

[troybilt]

troy, have you seen the most recent popular mechanics? i have a thread that died on the other site about a $20 EFI.

i can bump it for you

john

The other site is a dumpster fire. Its ashamed... I'll hang out here for now.

[danhung11]

I was waiting for you to get one of those APT smart carbs, so I could see if I wanted one. You gotta take one for the team, Troy. :D

[wilkin250r]

I don't think its absurd, I also don't think its the second coming either. You're either jetting with jets, needles and air screw or changing maps with EFI. Basically the same output.

Let me rephrase, the entire concept isn't absurd. You're correct, you're jetting with needles and jets, or with a computer.

I always thought the time and expense of an individual to design a system was absurd. Why would a person go through all that expense, time, and hassle to achieve what I believe would be minimal gains over a carburetor? With a 4-stroke, you see a significant gain in throttle response, which could easily be the difference between winning and losing a race. With a 2-stroke, you get slightly easier jetting, and a dozen more parts to break.

[troybilt]

I think you just get more precise control of throttle metering with EFI vs a carb. Direct injection has its benefits in fuel efficiency and emissions. Throttle-body injection not so much. I don't think you'll see huge hp gains, or throttle response.

I just don't think we'll fully know unless someone takes a chance on it. This system also comes with a programable ignition which I need, also allows me to run a 200w stator with stock flywheel, so I can power a SPAL fan, etc... The big sabers like timing and heavier flywheel. Stealhy Offroad makes a 14oz flywheel weight for the CR flywheel but that's not enough either. I like being able to run the stock flywheel.

In the end I thought $$-wise it was a real reasonable system. I could spend that much just for a complete MSD setup.

There is just multiple factors that makes this system seem beneficial to me and my unique setup, its not for everyone I agree....

[Pumashine]

also allows me to run a 200w stator with stock flywheel, Lord have mercy on you kicking that beast over. If it kicks you back I am not wanting to see pics of the damage. I twisted 2 kick starters and broke one before I got a cr ignition for my 350.

[troybilt]

Lord have mercy on you kicking that beast over. If it kicks you back I am not wanting to see pics of the damage. I twisted 2 kick starters and broke one before I got a cr ignition for my 350.

The 200w stator and flywheel doesn't affect kick back, the timing curve does, and I plan to run plenty of advance, the Saber likes advance as you'll soon find out. Since the CDI is programable I can program it with a similar curve to a 2001 CR125 CDI, which seems to be the sweet spot for the Saber.

[Pumashine]

The 200w stator and flywheel doesn't affect kick back, the timing curve does, and I plan to run plenty of advance, the Saber likes advance as you'll soon find out.

Just be careful because by the end of the day it takes alot out of you handling all that power. If you slow down at all the 95mm piston can make you do a back flip! LOL good luck. Did you get compression release installed on that bad boy?

[Burns310r]

I was waiting for you to get one of those APT smart carbs, so I could see if I wanted one. You gotta take one for the team, Troy. :D

Im with him^^^^

[Meat]

LOL, I'm banned. Why on Earth they would ban people is beyond me. What does Nazi-mod think he banned me/us from the whole internet ?

I don't have an opinion on either Carlos, the guys against em or the whole idea of Carlos always bashing other builders, but nothing pisses me off more than overmoderation. If you can't have a dissenting opinion, then why have a forum in the first place ? That place is not a forum... its a running commercial for the site sponsors. How can you challenge a topic that you feel needs challenging if the mods ban you or close your threads for speaking your mind ? How can you find truths and info if the only thing you can write is fluff for the sponsors ? That site is not a forum, its a circlejerk.

FFpowershiits, come on over here and join the conversation. That focker only has 37 posts and he's banning long time members and closing people threads. Fucck that guy. He even said he doesn't ride ATVs... he said he barely ever rides offroad. That's a terrible person to give an ATV forums' moderating job too. He's unqualified to be a moderator. He is nothing more than a coward.

About 2 years ago, I deleted all 300 posts I made at that site. My LRD build got a ton of views and comments and my R's were the most viewed R's in the "garage". I took it all down. I encourage everyone else to do the same and start posting here.

Spiritaces, you'll have to contact me here to finish our conversation.

[GO OVRIT]

LOL, I'm banned. Why on Earth they would ban people is beyond me. What does Nazi-mod think he banned me/us from the whole internet ?

I don't have an opinion on either Carlos, the guys against em or the whole idea of Carlos always bashing other builders, but nothing pisses me off more than overmoderation. If you can't have a dissenting opinion, then why have a forum in the first place ? That place is not a forum... its a running commercial for the site sponsors. How can you challenge a topic that you feel needs challenging if the mods ban you or close your threads for speaking your mind ? How can you find truths and info if the only thing you can write is fluff for the sponsors ? That site is not a forum, its a circlejerk.

FFpowershiits, come on over here and join the conversation. That focker only has 37 posts and he's banning long time members and closing people threads. Fucck that guy. He even said he doesn't ride ATVs... he said he barely ever rides offroad. That's a terrible person to give an ATV forums' moderating job too. He's unqualified to be a moderator. He is nothing more than a coward.

About 2 years ago, I deleted all 300 posts I made at that site. My LRD build got a ton of views and comments and my R's were the most viewed R's in the "garage". I took it all down. I encourage everyone else to do the same and start posting here.

Spiritaces, you'll have to contact me here to finish our conversation.

I promise I'm not trying to bring the drama over here, but that's a punk move. Deleting all your useful posts and telling others to delete theirs is taking from the vast majority because a minority is acting like fools.

[wilkin250r]

All drama will be limited to this thread only. If I see reference to it anywhere else, I'm going to delete it.

[Meat]

I promise I'm not trying to bring the drama over here, but that's a punk move. Deleting all your useful posts and telling others to delete theirs is taking from the vast majority because a minority is acting like fools.

Well I believe the moderator is a punk and my personally deleted content is my silly response to his Nazi moderating style. Me personally removing my content is not the end of the world. Did you contact the moderator and call him a punk for deleting OTHER people's threads ? No, of course you didn't. And If you did, you would get banned or scolded. Please bring your drama here, I'm not afraid to discuss my opinions.

[sangheraent]

I agree with meat. Every time I read a thread it seems like there are 2 honest answers and 4 bs answers that LOOK LIKE fake users I don't know if they are or not. I understand there is a big divide between the old and new guys but when does a forum stop becoming a forum. The moderator does have a point about pumashine pushing his products but I always though that was legit under the TLR sponsorship. Doesn't puma own that? And he claims puma's the ring leader in the anti-carlos group but Im pretty sure Carlos sold puma's stuff. I remember being a little let down when puma was defending him a few times.

Iv been watching this for years and have so much crap to say but its not going to accomplish anything.

My opinion is you can't not be a part of something and then be in charge of fixing it. That site is basically ruined the ban hammer won't change anything. It's basically three sides that are pissed at each other. The anti-carlos, the pro-carlos and the anti-drama.

I will continue my trolling from afar.

[wilkin250r]

A little drama is healthy now and then, it let's the masses voice their opinion.

I got a lot of grief from members when I banned Carlos, and to be honest, I wasn't happy about it. The guy knows his stuff, I like knowledgeable members, I actually wanted to keep him around. He just couldn't keep his ulterior motives out of his posts, and so he had to go. I sounds like he can't keep his ulterior motives out of his moderating, either. Shame.

[Meat]

What about the Pro-Drama team ? Im pro-drama. Its fun and it brings TONS of traffic to the forum. People get to read both sides and make a decision for the themselves on what is right and wrong. Arguing about crap brings out truths and ideas that one might not have thought of if you have a plain vanilla-boring forum. And why would anyone want to participate in a forum where you had to talk to others like they're children because some dude gets offended by a "curse" word ? I'll never understand why people get upset over certain words. This forum is a prime example, you can't even say the word "asss". Why on Earth can we not say the word "assss" !?! Who is having their life corrupted when they read the word "asss" ? I know its a stupid little pet peeve, but come on... really. Wilkin... I'm comin for you next !! :muscle: J/K :D (don't ban me)

[Meat]

One thing that should NOT be tolerated on a forum is people selling a product while not paying for a sponsorship.

[D Bergstrom]

Well I believe the moderator is a punk and my personally deleted content is my silly response to his Nazi moderating style. Me personally removing my content is not the end of the world. Did you contact the moderator and call him a punk for deleting OTHER people's threads ? No, of course you didn't. And If you did, you would get banned or scolded. Please bring your drama here, I'm not afraid to discuss my opinions.

You deleting your stuff is not a big deal, not like it was useful anyway! haha Just messing with you. I kind of agree with Go Ovrit though, is it really that big of a deal you have to take the time and delete stuff? ( I wouldn't go so far as to call it a punk move though, but I will admit I don't get it.) I actually like the moderator over there so far, seems to be doing a good job at cleaning house. (You are about the only one so far that I would rather keep around.) So what did you do to get banned? I know he gave fair warning of what he would not allow anymore and I saw Neil edited one of you posts. Then again, I also feel this is the internet, not worth my time getting all worked up over this kind of stuff. The way I see it, we have NO right at all on these forums, they are all under private ownership, pretty much their way or the highway!

Doug

[89trx250r]

Meat that other site was not moderated until the past week when things got so out of hand that every thread no matter what the subject would have a certain few members come in and bash Carlos and derail the thread on purpose which is petty and messed up to members just trying to ask questions or get help. So I believe him being there is needed,now do I think everyone should be banned for expressing their opinion of course not, but it doesn't need to be done in every thread. When the point becomes no longer about helping members and just is about bashing one person then that's gone too far.

[D Bergstrom]

Meat that other site was not moderated until the past week when things got so out of hand that every thread no matter what the subject would have a certain few members come in and bash Carlos and derail the thread on purpose which is petty and messed up to members just trying to ask questions or get help. So I believe him being there is needed,now do I think everyone should be banned for expressing their opinion of course not, but it doesn't need to be done in every thread. When the point becomes no longer about helping members and just is about bashing one person then that's gone too far.

Exactly. I was amazed at some of the posts that turned into a Carlos bash fest, stuff that had nothing to do with BDT or engines in general! IMHO, there needs to be an iron fist over there for a little while, get things back to normal.

As far as drama, no thanks, I got enough drama from being married to my now ex-wife for four and a half years! Trying to keep the rest of my life as drama free as possible!

Doug

[atv fan 28]

i almost feel like a criminal since they banned me over there.. :D

[danhung11]

i almost feel like a criminal since they banned me over there.. :D

Outlaw Wayne for the Dirty South! :p

[Meat]

Ohhh those moderators are there more often than you think they are. Hell I've been threatened with a ban three separate times from three different moderators. And I'm tellin' yas... there's "secret moderators" there. The "secret moderator" even used the term "secret moderator" when he was yellin' at me. :o

And it didn't take me long to delete my content. Sat here one night and read through all my posts and deleted em as I went along. Most of my posts were in only a handful of threads, mainly the Camo 250R thread. Just wanna take my stuff and leave. The last time I was at that forum was when one their dikhead members was mouthing off about the Bansheehq forums about a year ago. The time before that was when I was bitttched at for suggesting people post in the correct subforum, about 2 years ago. I haven't been a regular on that forum in many years.

[Pumashine]

LOL, I'm banned. Why on Earth they would ban people is beyond me. What does Nazi-mod think he banned me/us from the whole internet ?

That site is not a forum, its a circlejerk.

About 2 years ago, I deleted all 300 posts I made at that site. My LRD build got a ton of views and comments and my R's were the most viewed R's in the "garage". I took it all down. I encourage everyone else to do the same and start posting here.


So I take it you were pissed. The site used to be for the members now its for someones pocket book. I refuse to let ff use my hundreds of hours of hard work helping the 250r brethren to benefit XXX site sponsor. I will not sponsor a site that is run by a salesman making money off Joe blow 250r guy. Lies, cheating and deleted posts to make XXX look simply the best.
I did not get XXX banned, he did it himself. Same goes for the other site. He was forced to be a sponsor or get banned. Now ff says its all my fault this happened? I forced XXX to belittle everyone and bully his ways around battles? I forced him to claim his shop was the best? Please tell me what I did that was not for the sake of every Joe Blow 250r guy. Just because I stand up for those who don't have the guts its all my fault.

Sorry, there is no one on either site that can show I push underhanded sales. Wilkin250r makes it very clear to me here. Over there the products are in their own advertising section.

[Meat]

"So I take it you were pissed." Well lookin back... My first encounter with the mods I was pissed off. I thought I had some valid points and instead of getting the response I thought, I got hammered by the "secret moderator". The second time I got scolded was when the guy was bashing the BansheeHQ forums and specifically the BansheeHQ moderators, I swear to yas, I was definitely not pissed. I'm a moderator at the BansheeHQ forums if you guys didn't know. That one was fun, I had a good time rippin into the forum and the OP. I think Pumashine mighta called me a bad name or two in that thread :p I was cursin' up a storm and heads where exploding over it, lol. Good times.


"I refuse to let ff use my hundreds of hours of hard work helping the 250r brethren to benefit XXX site sponsor."
Yeah that's a great way to put it, wish I woulda thought of it :o I'm sure they're gunna block ya forever and ever or something so you can't delete yer content. F'em.

Off the top of my head I can think of two sponsors at the BHQ that were ousted by a handful of dissatisfied customers and forum members. It made the forums better because of it. The people should be allowed to speak, even if they're hammerin' the sponsor at every opportunity. Let the people argue and then we as individuals can choose who we think is right and who we think is wrong. The truth will come out either way. Let arguments come to their logical conclusions. And on top of it all, its great for forum traffic. People say they don't like reading about fighting but we all know that's a fib. Doug Bergstrom says he don't like it but I'll betcha he's readin' my comment right now :D

[tbone250r]

Holy crap what the hell happened over there!?!? :cuss: I get back inside from riding and the ban sledge hammer destroyed half the members lol.

I hope that new site being started up turns out well. Because i'm sick of seeing BDTM WURKS SONIC HAND CONED PRO PORTED FLOWED BDTM blah blah blah. Shouted at us in all caps like it's screaming Buy Me! Buy Me!

The guy is very knowledgeable but jesus christ, enough chest pumping and promoting in every single thread.

And the last straw was when he said people are trading in LED motors for bdt motors. Gimme a break

[Pumashine]

And the last straw was when he said people are trading in LED motors for bdt motors. Gimme a break Always targeting the newbie that does not know better. The worst part is they are like a bunch of sheep eating it up.

[atv fan 28]

Holy crap what the hell happened over there!?!? :cuss: I get back inside from riding and the ban sledge hammer destroyed half the members lol.

I hope that new site being started up turns out well. Because i'm sick of seeing BDTM WURKS SONIC HAND CONED PRO PORTED FLOWED BDTM blah blah blah. Shouted at us in all caps like it's screaming Buy Me! Buy Me!

The guy is very knowledgeable but jesus christ, enough chest pumping and promoting in every single thread.

And the last straw was when he said people are trading in LED motors for bdt motors. Gimme a break

i thought you were on Carlos's side???? Im glad you really see whats going on now!!! Its very SAD!!!

[sangheraent]

The drama is fun I went from going to the site once a month to several times a day. I have always been anti-xxx. Even pm'd a few people over the years about it. Always felt the guys that remembered the beginnings were pushed underground and forced to communicate through pms. Its almost like an up raising you can only bully and manipulate people for so long before people take actions.

One time I pm'd neil and xxx for porting prices and got replies back and I was ready to send my stuff out and went back to look at the prices and weirdly neils were still there I read them but XXX's turned into percent signs. I always thought that was suspicious. I wasn't even considering xxx just wanted to know what he would say. I chose my own guy.

[atv fan 28]

The drama is fun I went from going to the site once a month to several times a day. I have always been anti-xxx. Even pm'd a few people over the years about it. Always felt the guys that remembered the beginnings were pushed underground and forced to communicate through pms. Its almost like an up raising you can only bully and manipulate people for so long before people take actions.

One time I pm'd neil and xxx for porting prices and got replies back and I was ready to send my stuff out and went back to look at the prices and weirdly neils were still there I read them but XXX's turned into percent signs. I always thought that was suspicious. I wasn't even considering xxx just wanted to know what he would say. I chose my own guy.

^^^ thats part of the reason all this is going on over there....

[albertp86]

I always knew there was something going on over there. Now the mod is coming in with guns blazing to delete people. What a joke.

[fearlessfred]

hey wayne I had a new friend over there (truthhurts) .he was from miss.that maybe you new him.he barly had three posts and they banned him.

[jcs003]

the carlos/puma beef aside. this ffpowersports is the plague of the site. he is full of you know...he keeps banning long time members and thats a problem.

as stated above, he doesnt ride ATVs and obviously doesn't have a 250r.

puma might have taken it too far, but this ffpowersports is the real problem. he could of asked carlos to reel it in a bit and it would of slowed down some of the contempt.

john

[tbone250r]

i thought you were on Carlos's side???? Im glad you really see whats going on now!!! Its very SAD!!!

I was never really on anyone's side. I am on the side on whoever is in the right/wrong and whoever is being an honest 250r rider in the 250r community.

I've never had any work done by XXX, I wouldn't have any reason to be on his side.

I research everything before I buy it like it was the last dollar I had to spend, I can see through the BS pretty easily. If somethin smells fishy i'm gone.

ex. If I see more "self-promotion", as opposed to "customer promotion"; that is going to make me hesitant. I'm more likely to buy a product that sells itself

[etccb]

Always targeting the newbie that does not know better. The worst part is they are like a bunch of sheep eating it up.

I would be wearing out a like button. People are starting to see through it all.
He even twist 80's history around to promote sales and will delete a post when the history is corrected if it is in his section.
Remember guys the last week or so has been a built up reaction, not an attack.

[troybilt]

All I ask for is honestly. Everything else works itself out in the end.

[2001400exrida]

I can totally relate to what you guys are feeling. There have been some recent mods appointed on a forum I was a member of for 2 years. I have friends on the forum, as well as enemies. They are doing the exact same thing over there. Banning and advertising their own company. One particular mod is a builder and he sends pm's to some of the members advertising his head work. It's truly not fair to the site sponsors who actually pay over there. Most of the mods of the forum I'm talking about don't even ride, they have machines that sit in the garage year round.....I think the community should be about discussing the machines we love and getting out and riding/racing on them, not appointing poser mods to run a forum the way they want it to be. This site has always been tried and true. The moderator staff here does not put up with pouting and whiney members. I have always appreciated how this site is run and the lack of drama that you will find on this site.

[fearlessfred]

I can totally relate to what you guys are feeling. There have been some recent mods appointed on a forum I was a member of for 2 years. I have friends on the forum, as well as enemies. They are doing the exact same thing over there. Banning and advertising their own company. One particular mod is a builder and he sends pm's to some of the members advertising his head work. It's truly not fair to the site sponsors who actually pay over there. Most of the mods of the forum I'm talking about don't even ride, they have machines that sit in the garage year round.....I think the community should be about discussing the machines we love and getting out and riding/racing on them, not appointing poser mods to run a forum the way they want it to be. This site has always been tried and true. The moderator staff here does not put up with pouting and whiney members. I have always appreciated how this site is run and the lack of drama that you will find on this site.



its cool to have someone from outside xxx forum comment on how they see it.You have a pretty clear picture of whats going.I have bumped heads with the mod on this site,but would have to say that he is a standup guy and runs the site well and has my respect

[fearlessfred]

All I ask for is honestly. Everything else works itself out in the end.were the hell is the like button

[chronicsmoke]

Damn what happened over there? It was the place to be when I sold my R in August. (yes I miss it :ermm:)

I always PMd Neil with any questions, something about xxx always rubbed me the wrong way. I always respected Neils opinion and honesty!

[Pumashine]

something about xxx always rubbed me the wrong way. Seems to be a constant push to buy XXX products. The forum is a place to talk about your passion. Get opinions, not to be told there is only one way to so something, the XXX way. Seems we just want some unbiased views and make our own judgement taking into consideration all sides.

[89rwfo]

ffpower is banning people for making a statement over there left and right. Im afraid to say anything about anything...lol
I can remember how cool that site was 4 years ago! was some real smart people there willing to help.

[JackBrown1988]

Ahhhhh i like carlos n bdt crew. been to bdt driving into socal few times. awesome guy n best 250r builder imo. and yaaaaaaaa, the best n great, great crew at bdt. they r for real man n am i. u anti carlos guys r on a witch hunt, not helping 250rs folks like me. for u haters i am coming ur way aug/sept driving an anteater from il to ny to fl to tx to nv and up wc into or, wa, mt, nd, mn, wi, n down to il. meet me at your local truck stop. shake hands n talk 250r n friendly bs. im 4 real n like to meet you haters, show u who jb is. pumawhiner, fearfullfred, any 250r bretheren, just meet me bud. pm me you contact n pm mine. ps xxx is bdt. i ur going to b***h at bdt. have the balls to say bdt. jb

[fearlessfred]

Ahhhhh i like carlos n bdt crew. been to bdt driving into socal few times. awesome guy n best 250r builder imo. and yaaaaaaaa, the best n great, great crew at bdt. they r for real man n am i. u anti carlos guys r on a witch hunt, not helping 250rs folks like me. for u haters i am coming ur way aug/sept driving an anteater from il to ny to fl to tx to nv and up wc into or, wa, mt, nd, mn, wi, n down to il. meet me at your local truck stop. shake hands n talk 250r n friendly bs. im 4 real n like to meet you haters, show u who jb is. pumawhiner, fearfullfred, any 250r bretheren, just meet me bud. pm me you contact n pm mine. ps xxx is bdt. i ur going to b***h at bdt. have the balls to say bdt. jbI will be there hucleberry

[Pumashine]

Ahhhhh i like carlos n bdt crew. been to bdt driving into socal few times. awesome guy n best 250r builder imo. and yaaaaaaaa, the best n great, great crew at bdt. they r for real man n am i. u anti carlos guys r on a witch hunt, not helping 250rs folks like me. for u haters i am coming ur way aug/sept driving an anteater from il to ny to fl to tx to nv and up wc into or, wa, mt, nd, mn, wi, n down to il. meet me at your local truck stop. shake hands n talk 250r n friendly bs. im 4 real n like to meet you haters, show u who jb is. pumawhiner, fearfullfred, any 250r bretheren, just meet me bud. pm me you contact n pm mine. ps xxx is bdt. i ur going to b***h at bdt. have the balls to say bdt. jb

Thank you Jack for your continued support. Due to all the extra attention you have been getting for us, the funds have been raised to obtain the new website and all the software needed to run a shout box. Have a great 4th JB and all the rest of the 250r brethren. Have fun and be safe!

[2001400exrida]

Seems to be a constant push to buy XXX products. The forum is a place to talk about your passion. Get opinions, not to be told there is only one way to so something, the XXX way. Seems we just want some unbiased views and make our own judgement taking into consideration all sides.


right on the money buddy! I can't tell you how many times I got disciplined or trolled simply because i gave a different opinion. I'm not talking about on the site you are referring too, but this other site. a 450 site. There's people over there that just can't stand somebody giving a different insight. they whine and whined until they got their way. I feel ya fellas.

JB, i'm from Illinois too, the central part of the state. I race flat track around here and also hit the trails with my yfz when i get the chance. We should ride sometime. I think you guys should create a 250r and a 450r collaborated forum, u could get more members and we can weed out the meat heads. What kills me is how members sit there and campaign against certain members and then it becomes cool and the next thing you know you have all the newbies and everybody else on the bandwagon hating one member just because it's what the active members do. People need to grow a pair, this is America we don't whine and moan about things, we talk them out and if ya don't like somebody you give it back to them or man up and ignore them. Banning is for the people who don't know how else to put up with a different opinion....oh let's just ban them......it's a joke.

[Lasher]

Another day in the life of internet forums.

I was around before "MacDizzy" was a pay site and watched the fall out from that.
I was around when "atvconnection" started a pay forum and watched that place fall apart.
I was around here when it was "exriders" and saw the forum grow into "atvriders"
I was around "atvsource" before the big split and saw the creation of "atvnation"
I was around "atvriders" to see this mess start to take shape.
I was around ".net" before any of this mess started.

I feel like the internet is one big soap opera...amazing. I love to people watch when sitting at bar or just out an about, and internet forums are no different. :)

[etccb]

I love to people watch
Some of the best people watch is the launch ramp at the lake. WOW!! Open a cool drink and watch the stupid is as stupid does show.

[Pumashine]

Some of the best people watch is the launch ramp at the lake. Watching guys try to work on their Banshee in the parking lot at Winchester is always a kick in the pants. Ever rebuild the clutch when the sand is blowing. Or try to reset the bead when the tire is 1/2 full of sand. A bigger hammer is always better.LOL

[Meat]

posted by Pfftpowersport...
"Let me put it another way:

The inmates are through running the asylum. Clearly, there are a number of people here who can't keep the reason for the forum being here in mind, and instead think it must be used to wage personal warfare on others and stir up enough **** demanding that this, that or the other guy be banned. It's been clearly demonstrated that the members here won't self police. I'll handle that for ya. It's my job.

Pay attention to this: This is NOT a decision you guys get to make. Nor do you get to make everyone else miserable with your diatribes and puny demands. If you're here to disrupt the forum, NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON, you won't be around much longer. You're welcome to test just how serious I am. "


Man whatta dick. That forum moderator might be the biggest assshole on the planet. Have you guys ever ran across a worse Nazi-mod than this pfftpowersport guy ? Who in their right mind would want to belong to a forum that's modded with that guy running the show. Worst moderator ever. Seriously tho... I've never seen a mod go complete crazy like this dude. Anyone wanna take a guess at how old he is ??

[fearlessfred]

posted by Pfftpowersport...
"Let me put it another way:

The inmates are through running the asylum. Clearly, there are a number of people here who can't keep the reason for the forum being here in mind, and instead think it must be used to wage personal warfare on others and stir up enough **** demanding that this, that or the other guy be banned. It's been clearly demonstrated that the members here won't self police. I'll handle that for ya. It's my job.

Pay attention to this: This is NOT a decision you guys get to make. Nor do you get to make everyone else miserable with your diatribes and puny demands. If you're here to disrupt the forum, NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON, you won't be around much longer. You're welcome to test just how serious I am. "


Man whatta dick. That forum moderator might be the biggest assshole on the planet. Have you guys ever ran across a worse Nazi-mod than this pfftpowersport guy ? Who in their right mind would want to belong to a forum that's modded with that guy running the show. Worst moderator ever. Seriously tho... I've never seen a mod go complete crazy like this dude. Anyone wanna take a guess at how old he is ??yea when I told him he was a jackass, for some reason he banned me for life

[Meat]

yea when I told him he was a jackass, for some reason he banned me for life

Well he did say "no personal attacks" because that makes him cry, and when he cries... his mascara runs... and that's no good. He should come over here and talk to us. I'd like to get to know this guy better. The crazier a person is, the more I want to talk to him.

[Pumashine]

Well he did say "no personal attacks" The crazier a person is, the more I want to talk to him. He did start using bad language yesterday. He will soon have to ban himself. Fred got another thread deleted. Was a slam on the new site opening. The new site is open so I am heading over there

[Meat]

"The new site is open so I am heading over there " Make sure you guys make regular visits here too. Because... how cool is ATVriders and specifically the moderator Wilkins for allowing this thread to continue and giving you .net guys a temporary asylum from your dictator.

Ahem :D, If I could quote Benjamin Franklin on this fouth day in July, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

[Pumashine]

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." At least the guys on this site have a sense of humor also.

[fearlessfred]

He did start using bad language yesterday. He will soon have to ban himself. Fred got another thread deleted. Was a slam on the new site opening. The new site is open so I am heading over thereyea, the big dog town circus clown thread did not last to long. it makes me cry every time I get banned

[aztecgwynn]

I just do not understand the drama, I read someone is tired of BDT quotes or advertisements! Half the time I dont see his ads or promotions, when watching TV does anyone listen to commercials or ads anymore? I don't I guess I just ignore it. But it is a bad thing to see people who are so informative being barred or banned!

[fearlessfred]

mike ,you are a good person and I know your heart is in the right place.let me ask you one question.for what reason would ffpowersports go out of there way to ban so many people and lose other paying venders.does that seem strange to you.today I made two posts trying to help someone and was banned for no reason

[89trx250r]

Yup it started to seem a little fishy when Dave(Rss) got banned in the thread where he was proving "XXX" basically did no work to troys motor but charged him for it...

[aztecgwynn]

fearlessfred thanks for kind words I really wish I had answers for you. But i have so much respect for you Carlos and a few others that help the public or strangers it is hard to comprehend the badmouthing. I will try and gather information and accuracy of it and base an opinion of my own and go from there thanks and appreciate you honesty, Mike.

[2001400exrida]

mike ,you are a good person and I know your heart is in the right place.let me ask you one question.for what reason would ffpowersports go out of there way to ban so many people and lose other paying venders.does that seem strange to you.today I made two posts trying to help someone and was banned for no reason

don't worry, i got banned from a forum where they made some members who didn't like me moderators. These members baileygunns in particular, actually banned me for literally no reason. They call it spam. Basically anytime i would help somebody with an opinion of my own, if he didn't like it, i got banned. He has formed a group and they campaign against me. It's quite the joke honestly. I go out and race almost every weekend and if i'm not racing i'm riding in the woods....this is what makes me a member of the riding community, yet if you don't follow everybody's norm on trx450r.org, you get banned. It's ridiculous the group of guys that have started to campaign jsut because it's the bandwagon thing to do. There are lots of people in real life that I have great relationships with in this sport and many on that forum as well, but since the majority is against me on that site, and since several such as this baileygunns character have campaigned against me....it's byebye me. It's not how it should be, but hey that's what happens when you put power in the wrong place.

i strongly encourage anybody that is a member of that forum to look up my account ridinlow and see if i've caused harm. THen look up baileygunns and you can see where he has basically trolled every thread of mine.

Sorry to bring excess drama into this thread, however i figured since other people were having trouble with moderators that i better give my 2 cents on my experience with that guy on that forum.

I like this forum because pappy and scro don't let people get puffy chests. They keep things on topic and atv related, instead of allowing people to roll all day.

[jcs003]

.org not working today.

john

[JackBrown1988]

This is a good site. another good one is trx250r.net. jb

[atv fan 28]

This is a good site. another good one is trx250r.net. jb

shut up Carlos

[Black Sheep]

shut up Carlos

lol, After reading your comment I went through all his post...almost everyone is bashing ESR and praising BDT...lol...just like Carlos does at other site.

[Pumashine]

lol, After reading your comment I went through all his post...almost everyone is bashing ESR and praising BDT...lol...just like Carlos does at other site. You got it. we banned Carlos, I mean JackBrown1988 in less than 5 minutes on the new site. Then Thornfold claimed it was he that was banned the next day without a reason. Its too bad Carlos cannot keep all his screen names in line. Sad for the 250r brethren!

[fearlessfred]

[QUOTE=JackBrown1988;4339873]This is a good site. another good one is trx250r.org. jb

[JackBrown1988]

noooo- what is sad is to see the cum banned from trx250r.net for life, now over here trying to stir the pot. i am easy to find n meet. drive a truck cross country. from cost to cost. pass by nv, or once every 2-3 months. let's meet a a local truck stop, shake hands, see who jack brown is. no lies, no bs. no linking me with carlos. fyi- i respect carlos. he has been nothing but good to me. a lot of us support bdt. standing up for someone does not make me a bad person or anyhting more than a sastified person with bdt. meet me or shut up.

[fearlessfred]

noooo- what is sad is to see the cum banned from trx250r.net for life, now over here trying to stir the pot. i am easy to find n meet. drive a truck cross country. from cost to cost. pass by nv, or once every 2-3 months. let's meet a a local truck stop, shake hands, see who jack brown is. no lies, no bs. no linking me with carlos. fyi- i respect carlos. he has been nothing but good to me. a lot of us support bdt. standing up for someone does not make me a bad person or anyhting more than a sastified person with bdt. meet me or shut up.see ya when you get here

[JackBrown1988]

I know you are in nv. pm me your number. i will pm you mine. will be through nv august 9, 10, 11, maybe 12. i will buy u a cup of coffee. jb

[fearlessfred]

I know you are in nv. pm me your number. i will pm you mine. will be through nv august 9, 10, 11, maybe 12. i will buy u a cup of coffee. jbpm a day before your coming thu .I wont be giving my # to someone I believe is carlos,pms will work..if im wrong I will come on here and say so

[JackBrown1988]

Noooo not a day before. need the area you are in nv. need to route as close as I can to a stop close to u. in nv, got a city? jb

[Fear250r]

This is a good site. another good one is trx250r.net. jb

haha...that's a good one right there.

[jcs003]

this is what lead to the upset forum members:

http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/search.php?searchid=10379

thanks atvriders.com moderators for looking out for its members.

john

[sameltoe]

Looks like they took the thread down John...

[jcs003]

yes, sameltoe. the truth apparently hurts. fred, spirit, and puma are stand up guys and kept all of us in mind when they set forth their attempt to exact justice on a "cancer" involved in our thing. i am just paying it forward.

john