Elkas or Works?

[Zhutch7]

I am looking to get some new front shocks soon, but I am looking to find something under $500 or right at 5. What would be best for my riding style, which is trail riding? I will never race my bike, but I am getting +2 a-arms so I figured I might as well upgrade my suspension while I'm at it. Also, Laeger or Houser? Thanks -Zhutch7-

[Zakradu398]

I am looking to get some new front shocks soon, but I am looking to find something under $500 or right at 5. What would be best for my riding style, which is trail riding? I will never race my bike, but I am getting +2 a-arms so I figured I might as well upgrade my suspension while I'm at it. Also, Laeger or Houser? Thanks -Zhutch7-

The works are a good budget shock. If you got the dough go stage 3+ elkas.

[Mtndew99]

I got stage 2 Elka fronts there pretty smooth

[chronicsmoke]

try and get something with both compression and rebound.. Elka before Works but you'll be able to find others in that price range. Custom Axis/Fox/Motowoz/Stadium/PEP are all great shocks too

[Zakradu398]

try and get something with both compression and rebound.. Elka before Works but you'll be able to find others in that price range. Custom Axis/Fox/Motowoz/Stadium/PEP are all great shocks too

I have heard the air shocks such as fox may not be the best choice for offroad since they require more maintenance.. Not sure if its true or not tho

[chronicsmoke]

I have heard the air shocks such as fox may not be the best choice for offroad since they require more maintenance.. Not sure if its true or not tho

Because they are air pressure you constantly have to adjust the pressure. Great if you know what you're doing.. a pita if you don't have a clue. Fox will tell you the average pressure specs for your setup if you call them though

[DragonGunner]

I have Works for about 13 yrs on the 400EX and Elka's for last 7 yrs on another quad. The Works are a great shock for the money, mine are triple rate with rezzies set up
for my riding style strait fro Works.....I would recommed the same. For plus 2 a-arms look up JD Performance....when I bought the yrs ago they said they would ship out right away...I said you mean when you get my check.....naaaa......we send them out, just send us a check later....wow...are you kidding me! Got them about a week later and then sent a check. Think the guy that makes them use to do leagers.

[Zhutch7]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have heard a lot of great things about Works and Elkas. I haven't heard much or looked into Fox. I have found some basic Elkas for right at $500 but every place I seem to look for Works they are more expensive than the Elkas. Where is a good place to buy and how much are they running for? What is the best deal for the money in my circumstance?

[Zakradu398]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have heard a lot of great things about Works and Elkas. I haven't heard much or looked into Fox. I have found some basic Elkas for right at $500 but every place I seem to look for Works they are more expensive than the Elkas. Where is a good place to buy and how much are they running for? What is the best deal for the money in my circumstance?

Stage 1 and 2 Elkas are not worth it IMO.. Too overpriced for the limited adjustability.

[Zhutch7]

I noticed that too when looking at a few websites. Do the Works have more adjustability on the basic models?

[2001-400ex'er]

Or you could just look around on the classifieds and find a nice set of PEP's or Custom Axis used. They usually go for around $300-$400.

[Zhutch7]

Yeah that's true, but then I have to send them off to get revalved and all that. So it may come close to the price of new ones anyways. I found some Elkas right at $500.00. They are the basic model but still Elkas lol.

[Zakradu398]

Yeah that's true, but then I have to send them off to get revalved and all that. So it may come close to the price of new ones anyways. I found some Elkas right at $500.00. They are the basic model but still Elkas lol.

They're not worth it man...

I had stage 1 Elkas on a banshee and while yes it will be 18492 times better than stock, save Money and get more adjustable ones..

[Zhutch7]

They're not worth it man...

I had stage 1 Elkas on a banshee and while yes it will be 18492 times better than stock, save Money and get more adjustable ones..

What is the next step up and how much more would it be?

[Zhutch7]

Of course stage 2, but are there any others brands that are better than Elka's stage 1 for a smaller price than $800?

[Zakradu398]

Of course stage 2, but are there any others brands that are better than Elka's stage 1 for a smaller price than $800?

Go used man. The stage 3 and up Elkas are the ones you want.

[Stickman400]

I'd go for Stage 4s if you get Elkas. I have Stage 3s on my 450 with +2 Janssen arms and while they can take a hit and are smooth even without being re-valved for my weight or riding style, they only have compression adjustment and that's it. No rebound or hi/low compression adjustment. So if you just want a good aftermarket shock and that's it, get some Stage 3s, if you want a good shock that you can fine tune to your liking then get at least Stage 4s.

[Zhutch7]

Keep in mind here that I won't be racing, so I do not need the top of the line Elkas. And I am definitely not spending over a thousand bucks on some shocks. I am trail rider and I ride for fun so I am not going to be doin much competing.

[tayyo789]

There's no substitute for quality suspension. I've got the "dune edition" fronts from Elka for an EX, and some stage 3's on another bike. While the base models are a significant improvement from stock, they are not worth the money that they go for. If you think about it, spending 400 on a nice used set of quality shocks, and sending them off to get rebuilt for you, is extremely cost effective. You may end up spending a little more than your budget, but in return you get shocks that someone else is paying over 1G for, at about half price. With the high price of shocks, if I'm investing in something that substantial, I want something with the best return, and minimize my opportunity costs. To me, it just seems well worth the extra money and time.
Even as a recreational rider, the last part of my bike I want to reach the limit of (other than my brakes of course) is my suspension.

[Zhutch7]

That's true. Say I bought a pretty good set of shocks off of here or somewhere else. How much is it going to cost me to send them off to get set up for my weight, style of riding, etc.?

[tayyo789]

I've personally never sent any off before, although I am due. It's been a while since I was a regular on here, so I may be wrong, but it seemed like most people I've seen seem to spend between 100-150 on rebuilds, depending on who they sent them to. I'm not up to date on the companies who do it these days however.

[Baxter]

Elka has a promo on at the moment, 2 front shocks and the rear ,all stage 3 for $1395. Saving $1000 on retail. There's a few dealers on Ebay that have this offer.

[ben300]

I've personally never sent any off before, although I am due. It's been a while since I was a regular on here, so I may be wrong, but it seemed like most people I've seen seem to spend between 100-150 on rebuilds, depending on who they sent them to. I'm not up to date on the companies who do it these days however.


the average shock service for a pair of fronts is usually $110 to $150, depending on builder. you'll accrue more cost though once you usually get into re-valving and re-springing for your weight and riding style...if you send your fronts to a place like GT Thunder or Greg's ATV, your probably looking at $150-$200ish total for a complete shock service and valving/springing and shock dyno testing...

places you can send them to that your very reputable

Greg's ATV
Derisi Racing
GT thunder
Dirt Works

other places you can send to

RaceTech
Knight Suspension (Dustin_J.... Member on here)
C&D racing (sight sponsor)
MXTECH east coast

regardless of what anyone says, an aftermarket shock, whether it be elka, axis, works, fox, exit, pep, are only gonna work as good as the valving and spring set up on them. even if you only trail ride, if your serious about your riding, if your gonna spend the money, you owe it to yourself to spend the little extra cash and get them set up for you, properly. if your only a recreational trail rider, you could spend an extra $200, have the fronts completely set up, and it'll last you probably almost 2 years before you need to have them serviced.

[Stickman400]

x2 on everything ben said. Well setup/built shocks may not seem like a good place to spend money on at first, but once you ride them after you bite the bullet you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. It truly is a night and day difference once they are setup for your weight and riding style.

[Zhutch7]

1718103285

I can get these Pro Series works that are already set up for my riding style and weight for right around $600. Seems like a great deal huh?

[ben300]

1718103285

I can get these Pro Series works that are already set up for my riding style and weight for right around $600. Seems like a great deal huh?

why set them up?

honestly, you could buy used 450r fronts, and send them to GTT or Greg's atv, and they would outperform those any day of the week


those do look exceptionally clean though

[Zhutch7]

why set them up?

honestly, you could buy used 450r fronts, and send them to GTT or Greg's atv, and they would outperform those any day of the week


those do look exceptionally clean though

How do you figure? Stock 450R shocks compared to Works Pro Series that are already set up for me? I can't see that happening. Those retailed for around $1300 new.

[ben300]

How do you figure? Stock 450R shocks compared to Works Pro Series that are already set up for me? I can't see that happening. Those retailed for around $1300 new.

no, im not talking stock 450r shocks..im talking taking stock 450r shocks like these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Honda-TRX450R-450R-Stock-OEM-Front-Shocks-Suspension-/140968627424?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d2628ce0&vxp=mtr

and have them turned into these!
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5827/shockl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/shockl.jpg/)Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

those are jet suspension stealth shock, 450r triple rate conversion's, actually set up for my weight, riding style, with modifications made so that they correctly fit a 400ex. these will out perform work shocks any day of the week, and will cost you way less to get set up correctly.

[ben300]

they work awesome in everything from trail riding, to XC racing, to what dabbling i do on the mx track
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/829/race1o.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/race1o.jpg/)
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5116/racekh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/racekh.jpg/)

[Zhutch7]

So I planned to get those Works Pro Series, but I know suspension is one of the most important aspects on a person's ride and I want to know what's the best I can do with $650 for front suspension? All opinions will be appreciated.

[tayyo789]

It depends on how patient you are. There's bound to be a great deal to pop up somewhere within your budget. As far as pure bang for your buck, you can find some used 450r fronts all day long, and get them rebuilt. You'll be left with an adjustable multi-rate shock set up just for you. It's like having stage 2's except you'd spend about half of your budget, leaving you with extra fuel money, or start the fund for a rear shock to match.
However determination and patience usually pay off when shopping like this. I've got a ds650 I got for 3g's that came with almost that much $ in suspension alone on it, because the guy was desperate to sell. The right deal is out there, you just have to sniff it out. In the end it's your money, and your decision. Most of the brands aren't really very different so it's about figuring out what you want. Regardless of what you end up with, it will be a good investment simply because you ditched the pogo sticks

[ben300]

So I planned to get those Works Pro Series, but I know suspension is one of the most important aspects on a person's ride and I want to know what's the best I can do with $650 for front suspension? All opinions will be appreciated.

i personally, honestly believe that for the "best bang for your buck", for $650, is to buy a used set of 450r fronts, and then send them to gt thunder or greg's atv, and work with a shock builder like Lazarus Sommers at Gt or Greg McNemar at Greg's, and have them built for you.

i know, i was skeptical. i didnt want to think that it was possible to take stock shocks and make them perform just as well as a custom axis, or high dollar elka, but you can. and even if you do get those types of shocks, and they say they're set up for your weight range or riding style, they're still a cookie cutter shock that needs to be sent off and have rebuilt for your.

i know this is more of an MX based forum, but if you go to any XC, espeically the bigger races like the GNCC's, AWRCS's, or an MAXC race, you'll see lots of guys in every class using stock rebuilds. there are even pro and pro-am guys using them. Donnie Ockerman runs stock rebuilds and Brycen Neal did pretty good last year on them.


Just food for thought

[Zhutch7]

You guys seemed pretty set on the stock rebuild option. How can it be that stock 450R shocks that get re-valved can perform just as well as the top aftermarket brands? It seems impossible to me, but I know little to nothing about suspension set ups.

[ben300]

You guys seemed pretty set on the stock rebuild option. How can it be that stock 450R shocks that get re-valved can perform just as well as the top aftermarket brands? It seems impossible to me, but I know little to nothing about suspension set ups.

the stock shocks that are used on the 450's are essentially the same thing as an elka, or axis, or pep, or exit, they just have a few differences that make them cheaper.
1. materials (magnesium instead of aluminum/stainelss)
2. generic spring and valve stack set ups that are meant to cover a whole range of riders, riding styles, and riding weights.
3. they dont have the broad range of adjustment that a top of the line after market will. (but they do offer compression and rebound adjust, where a lot of shocks dont offer external rebound adjustment)

they're just that, just a generic set up. But so are the high end shocks too, especially ones bought off ebay. sure, they're made from better materials, have a broader range of adjustments, and have less fade because they have larger resivoirs, but they are also a cookie cutter shock as well. they still have a generic set up in them. so even if you buy these, unless your just fine with what you get, your gonna have still send them off. they will perform, just not as good as they should. the aftermarkets have a greater ceiling once set up correctly.

if you buy stocks, and send them off to a place like GTT or greg's, they change a lot.
1. they modify the shock shaft length so that it correctly matches the required length, depending on what a-arm set up (stock included) you use, so that you can get the correct ride height with increased wheel travel from the shocks.
2. they will change your springs from a single rate, generic spring, to a duel rate set up. They will use different spring combinations, with the correct crossover, in order so that you get teh correct preload and ride height for your desired application.
3. they change the shock valving. the stock shocks use very generic, low flow valving. when you work with the shock builder, they will change the valves and shims out with high flow valving that they match depending on your weight, riding ability, and riding style.
4. they then will use better shock fluids that have longer life before the fluid starts to break down and you loose performance. they'll then dyno that shock and make sure that it works perfectly to that application.


it honestly is a night and days difference! sure we would all love to be able to buy the top of the line axis or elkas or exits, but sometimes money just wont allow that. this is totally a suitable alternative. I was very surprised once i got my shocks back. i had my fronts done by nick adams @ jet suspension, and i had my rear done by Greg McNemar @ greg's atv. Both guys were awesome to work with. they asked all sorts of questions about how i had my bike set up, how i rode, my fitness level, ability level. they answered any questions that i had and once i got mine back, they perform fantastic. i can honestly fly over anything now. its so much smoother, way better handling, and it honestly increased my traction. i just feel like the quad is sucked to the ground now.


like i said before. im not trying to tell you what to do or sway you away from what you think is best for you. im just trying to give you some more options to choose from and to also give you some insite.

[chronicsmoke]

unless you get aftermarket shocks that are 100% setup for you and your setup they won't work as good as the stock showa shocks with bigger pistons, 2-3 springs rather than 1 and shortened to fit the EX..
I just picked up some triple rate TCS front shocks for the front of my EX for less than $300(thanks again BGUNS) and yes they work good, but if I had them sent back to be rebuilt for me to work 100% up to their capabilities it would be another 2-300 but at that point they are totally setup and perfect for ME.

Get some 450r fronts for 150-200 and have them built into the shocks like ben has. The stock showa shocks have compression/preload/rebound adjustabilities where the TCS shocks I got don't have rebound. Compare the TCS against the 450r fronts (both rebuilt to the same specs) and the 450r fronts WILL be better. Sure PEP/Motowoz/Axis/Stadium/Fox ect may work better after you get them valved for you, but you're going to spend at least 4-600 initially for the shocks.

If i were you I'd save money and go the revalved route. Or find some that are setup similar to you and your setup.

[Zhutch7]

Wow, a lot of great information there. I appreciate it fellas. I decided against spending $600+ on those Works. I felt a little skeptical about them even though they were the Pro Series. They were set up for me, but the owner bought them off of someone and he couldnt remember the service date. I didn't know how long ago they were serviced so I decided to go a different route. Most likely, the way you all are talking.

[dustin_j]

I would also look into HLS shocks. They are made by GT Thunder and work very well. The essential shocks are $500 brand new, setup for your weight, riding style, and machine specs. They are not adjustable, but that is not always bad since the shock is setup for you. Like others have mentioned, if you buy used they probably aren't setup correctly for you, and this will compromise the performance. The new Elkas and Works also aren't really setup for you, and their valving is inferior to the HLS or even stock 450R shocks. I also agree with the recommendations to get used 450R front shocks and have them setup for you. Like mentioned, they are a great shock when rebuilt and setup for you.

For A-arms, I love Houser. They are very well made, and their regular travel arms give as much wheel travel as other LT setups and provide good leverage ratios. The slicast adjustment is also much easier to setup and change to suit your riding.

EDIT:
I would also recommend a GT Thunder linkage and rear shock rebuild. You won't believe how well your 400 handles after getting the suspension setup for you!

[ben300]

I would also look into HLS shocks. They are made by GT Thunder and work very well. The essential shocks are $500 brand new, setup for your weight, riding style, and machine specs. They are not adjustable, but that is not always bad since the shock is setup for you. Like others have mentioned, if you buy used they probably aren't setup correctly for you, and this will compromise the performance. The new Elkas and Works also aren't really setup for you, and their valving is inferior to the HLS or even stock 450R shocks. I also agree with the recommendations to get used 450R front shocks and have them setup for you. Like mentioned, they are a great shock when rebuilt and setup for you.

For A-arms, I love Houser. They are very well made, and their regular travel arms give as much wheel travel as other LT setups and provide good leverage ratios. The slicast adjustment is also much easier to setup and change to suit your riding.

EDIT:
I would also recommend a GT Thunder linkage and rear shock rebuild. You won't believe how well your 400 handles after getting the suspension setup for you!

i completely agree with all this.

1. the HLS's are a fantastic shock for all they cost, and they come set up, FOR YOU, straight from teh factory. when you buy a pair, Laz or his tech's get your sepcs so that they are set up directly for you. if you go to any harescramble or XC race, anywhere, there are lots of dudes and gals running those shocks. not to mention johnny G, Yoho, Jeff Pickens, Brian Wolf and a few others are running them in the pro class.

2. hoursers are great. they make extremely durable products. replacement parts are abundant, and the slicast does allow for tons of adjustment.

3. id almost say that getting the rear shock done is mor important than getting the fronts done if you buy used 450r front shocks. getting my rear revalved and resprung by greg, with the GT xc link, completely changed my EX. the rear GT link completely elimnates all the bucking in the rear end caused by the stock rear shock position. getting the rear done completely smoothed out my bike and greatly increaed the handling and traction

[Zhutch7]

It seems as if I have a lot to do lol. How much would it cost me if I got some 450R shocks revalved like you did Ben300 plus the rear set up? Your set up seems nice.

[ben300]

It seems as if I have a lot to do lol. How much would it cost me if I got some 450R shocks revalved like you did Ben300 plus the rear set up? Your set up seems nice.

well, unfortunately, my fronts were done by Jet Suspension in Greencastle, indiana and they are going out of business on june 15th. The owner, Nick Adams, says that he wants to shift his full focus to his other business ventures. Word is though that one of his techs or someone locally may buy it and keep the business going. The fronts, with the triple rate set up cost me roughly $650. that not including the shocks, but i had had the shocks already. they did duel rate set ups, with the same exactly valving as the triple rate set up, and they do those for roughly $500. its a shame that they are closing up shop, because nick was an excellent builder and would help you get everything perfect, no matter what.

as for my rear, i had that done by Greg's ATV in coshocton, ohio. Greg McNemar is an awesome dude to work with and is awesome with his set ups. he only does duel rate fronts, but lots of guys run them (pro gabe phillips has, 2012 xc2 champ pat mcguire, x2 rider matt hanna, angel atwell, brycen neal in the past, etc), and they work just as good as any other builder out there. gregs fronts include duel rate springs, high flow valve, shock body and length mods, long life oil...and for trx450 or yfz450 fronts, cost i believe $395. He does the rear shock, with the GTT xc link included for $350.

[ben300]

GT Thunder does the fronts for $395 and the rear with link for $350.

i dont know what dirtworks charges but id imagine its similar, maybe a little more.


derisi racing is like $850-$900 for the whole package (duel rate fronts, complete rear with their own xc link)

[Zhutch7]

So I'm looking at a set of 450R fronts for about 150-200, plus the re-valving which could be anywhere for 300-400? I may just work through Greg's ATV. What year are the best 450R fronts?

[ben300]

So I'm looking at a set of 450R fronts for about 150-200, plus the re-valving which could be anywhere for 300-400? I may just work through Greg's ATV. What year are the best 450R fronts?

the fronts are all the same. they just changed colors. i would try and find the most clean looking pair possible

he're a thread i started about getting themto fit properly in your frame
http://www.atvriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?491839-CJM-Dxcody-guys-with-450-shocks-on-400-s-i-Have-a

[Zhutch7]

Okay awesome. Man I really do appreciate all of the great information you have provided! It is going to help me a lot, and I am going to be on the search for some clean 450r fronts and have them sent off. What's an estimated re-valve for Greg's ATV? You said around $300 or so?