Performance on a BUDGET

[pacman]

We're 1st year racers this year and on a very tight budget. Due to my son's size I want to focus first on power. Big motor upgrades are not going to be in the budget this year. Between a new quad, new trailer, full set of riding gear, Leatt brace, etc, etc... my pockets are just about turned inside out. PLUS, I want to make sure that racing is something he is REALLY going to stick with before I throw $1000's into upgrades. If my son enjoys racing this year and if it looks like he's going to stick with it, then next year(or maybe even this summer) I'll look at some of the more potent upgrades and a full race package.

For this year though I want to get as much out of the stocker and spend as little as possible. I was thinking that the most inexpensive way to get a little more out of this machine was intake and exhaust. Maybe an aftermarket REED cage and carbon reeds and a new intake. I see that you can get full replacement carb's from Stage-6 and Keihin for under $200. Thoughts on setup?

Do you guys think the stock 24pwk carb is a good choice for the stock motor. Any better options? What are the benefits of larger and smaller carb's?

If I stay with the stock carb for now, The stock carb on my son's 2009 DRX90 says PWK 24. I assume that it's not a Mikuni since it isn't stamped on it. Who makes this carb and what rebuild kit would I get for it? If I stay with it I need to get a jet kit too. Are the Mikuni jets compatible with the stock carb?

If there is anything else you can think of for budget-minded performance let me hear it.

Thanks!

[edwardsp&b]

Honestly, and I know you dont want to hear this. You need suspension first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He will not use the power the bike has until he can jump and hit stuff at higher speeds. A good suspension is key to these bikes. I asked the same question as you a few years ago. Glad I listened!

But, if you have to go power first, I would call a dealer and get their input. If it were me I would call Gforce racing and talk to Mike. He will get you setup with what you need and not just sell you come bullcrap that you cant use or setup. Some dealers will just sell you some stuff without even asking questions on what your doing, what type of riding/racing your doing, and so on. Dont waste your money, buy the right parts the first time. There is alot of clutching work you could do and pull more power out of the CVT. The stock cylinder ported by the right person will run alot better than stock, but you will only get so much before you start looking at cylinders, pipes, pvl's........

And another thing, these arent dirtbikes where you can just buy any aftermarket pipe and gain power. These dont work that way....... Make some smart phone calls first to get on track.
Bryan

[fomospede]

suspension 1st

motor
pipe
28mm carb
pvl

in that order

[pacman]

Don't get me wrong guys.. I def know that suspension is the most important aspect of setup. If I had deeper pockets, that would be my first upgrade.. it's always the first thing I do with my race bikes.

HOWEVER, the point of this thread is Performance on a BUDGET. Is there even a way to get the stock suspension up to par(or even close) for under $500? It looks like at best I could get a full used setup for maybe $800 and then I'd still have to get it valved for his weight and ability. All said and done I'd be looking at $1000 for suspension upgrades MINIMUM. If there's another way, I'd love to know. And obviously the above numbers don't even include the good stuff like long travel swing arms etc...

That's the major factor in concentrating on cheaper stuff like intake/carb/jetting.. etc... I'm just looking for cheap mods.. maybe some stuff I could do myself... like porting(which you mentioned). I just want to get the most out of what I have by spending the minimum amount for now.

The other point being, that this is only his first year. If it looks like it's going to stick and he's going to stay with it, then I'll open up the bank and spend whatever is necessary to make his equipment competitive, but IMO it would be crazy to drop $1000's of $$$'s into his quad when we haven't even raced one moto yet.

Are you guys suggesting that I should just run it as is and save my $ until I can afford suspension?

@edwardsp&b - Yes! Tuning the CVT seems like the best way to get more out of this machine. I started another thread about CVT basics and have learned a lot so far. I have already made a few minor changes that made a big difference. I'll continue to try and perfect the CVT. It's a science all of it's own.

[edwardsp&b]

The reason I told you to call Mike at Gforce is because they have a ton of racing experience on stock only classes. He can head you in the right direction toward most bang for the buck.

I would just let him race and see how he does. Keep in mind, tell him to just have fun. We showed up to our first race ever and Ben pulled the holeshot and ended up in 3rd place. After 2 races with the same results, we opened up our wallet and didnt lose again. Racing is addictive, and as much as I hate to say it, buying go fast parts to add is addictive too!! LOL

Bryan

[pacman]

no doubt. I drool looking at the stuff on G Force's website. haha.. Some of the machines you guys have built for your kids are impressive to say the least.

[dewutfan]

Bryan is telling you spot on with out suspension he wont use the power you put in the motor.. we done just what you are wanting to do and my sons lap times did not change hardy at all then Guys like Bryan told me he wont get any faster untill he can jump without beating his brains out .. just saying and if you keep looking on this forum you will find some great deals on shocks.

[mmsoup]

What type of racing are you looking to enter?

I may have missed it somewhere, but curious. MX is Long Travel dependent, TT and XC not so much.


We have run fully built quads for the past three years but we ran stock limited DRRs for a year and a half in the GNCC's first to make sure both of the kids would keep racing.

Clutch tuning, ClutchTuning, Clutch Tuning.

A decent used pipe like a PCS, Trackside or Hetrick Gen 3 can help ($150 - $200) if it's permitted in your limited class. , Hog the exhaust port on the stock cylinder if you have a little experience there.

Carbon Fiber reeds aren't so effective at 10 - 11K that they are worth the spend

24PWK is a KEIHIN PWK knockoff. We run Keihin 28mm D Slides on Haggerty intakes but on the stock setup you will get probably get better torque from a 24mm carb on a well matched intake.

So to meet your CHEAP requirement. I say

Good used pipe
Cylinder tweak
CLUTCH, CLUTCH, CLUTCH

my .02

[RCR_531]

Don't be afraid to give Gforce or Hot Quads etc a call and tell them what you are trying to do. I have found that they are very helpful and willing to work with you on your budget. They have even talked me out of buying things that I didn't need but want. Mike is a great guy to work with too.

[pacman]

@dewutfan - Thanks. I definitely see the wisdom in suspending this quad properly. Honestly it will be a few weeks until I have ANY spare money to spend so I have time to make these decisions. Just trying to figure out the best bang for my buck.

@mmsoup - We are not 100% sure what kind of racing we are going to focus on. I race the district 6 Hare Scramble series on a bike. My son wants to race motocross so we signed him up for the Dist 34 series. Now he's saying that he'd like to try a hare scramble with me. Personally I think he'd be better off starting there and it would be awesome to race with him at some of the events... He's going to try it all... WHICH is another reason I'm hesitant to spend a lot of money right now. I want to see what he likes best this year and then build the bike around that discipline.
ALSO, ummm... what does "hog the exhaust port" mean? haha...

@RCR_531 - Is Mike from G-Force or Hot Quads?

thanks guys

[RCR_531]

mike Deal works with both but mostly known for his work with G Force.

[edwardsp&b]

Mike is with Gforce, but we are all like one big family! Gary (gforce) and Marc (Hotquads) have been working together for years. We share info between each other! I cannot stress how important it is to have somebody like them. There are others that will sell you what you dont need. Buying the right parts for your application the first time will save you and your wallet headache after headache! You cant go wrong with either of those guys. Mike this past weekend worked on 6 different quads on Friday and Saturday. His quads needed alot of work but he was still working on others quads that wouldnt run right. He put his quads to the side, to fix others at a National race. THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!

Having problems getting the bike to run and its 9pm on a friday night and your trying to get the bike right for a race on saturday, call either one of those guys and they will walk you through getting the quad right! Thats the reason we work with these guys...........
Bryan

[asadad00]

Best bang for the buck will be exhaust everytime, more potential for gain. an exhaust can give you several hP then set up the cvt to work with the pipe. intakes and carbs not much bang for the buck IMO. Mach-1 X pipe on a stock 90 is friggin amazing. get the pipe first it will be the best 399$ you ever spend.

[pacman]

Once again guys, Thanks for all of your help. Lots of food for thought here.

[ontargetracing]

Pacman,

If you are looking for bang for the buck I would go with this exhaust. By the way I am not affiliated with the seller at all but I do know this same pipe made a night and day difference on our first mini.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160984887326?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_44wt_912

I would also look for a cheap 26 or 28mm carb on ebay. You can find a decent Chinese knockoff for less than $100.

Then as money allows get the stock cylinder ported and so on..

and of course a good cvt setup, good lightweight oil in the trans, an efficient chain, some weight loss (quad lol) and properly serviced quad are all cheap hp gains. When you are talking low hp efficiency and weight matter more.

[mmsoup]

We love the woods man and besides, the kids get a lot more seat time per event.

I meant open up the exhaust port with a dremel or pneumatic hand grinder done properly on a stock cylinder and combined with a good pipe, that motor will rock. I had forgotten about the Snyder pipe by the way and it is also a good choice for a used pipe.

Bring him to one of the Pennsylvania GNCC's or maybe Unadilla GNCC. The atmosphere is killer for the youth and the scope of the event is addictive.

[mmsoup]

We love the woods man and besides, the kids get a lot more seat time per event.

I meant open up the exhaust port with a dremel or pneumatic hand grinder done properly on a stock cylinder and combined with a good pipe, that motor will rock. I had forgotten about the Snyder pipe by the way and it is also a good choice for a used pipe.

Bring him to one of the Pennsylvania GNCC's or maybe Unadilla GNCC. The atmosphere is killer for the youth and the scope of the event is addictive.

By the way, we have always been G-Force customers and fans. Marc at Hotquads is also a great guy and retailer.

[pacman]

@ontargetracing - Thanks! I may pick that one up on payday... I can't really find too much info about that pipe though. I'll send Snyder an email and ask for info.

@mmsoup - I hear ya. I used to race MX exclusively. Had kids, stopped racing for a span of years. When I came back I switched over to the Hare Scramble series and haven't looked back since. More seat time... I love that: you go, you race, you leave... no sitting around for hours waiting for the next moto. Although I've been getting the itch to moto now that I've been going back to the tracks with my son. I raced the Rausch Creek GNCC last year. It was fun. I really like the Unadilla one as well.

as far as "hogging" the exhaust port goes, I've never done that type of job myself before. I always paid to do that kind of work. Any advice? Is that a DIY project if you have no experience with it? Have any of you guys done it? I'd love to learn to do it myself, but don't want to ruin what I have though.

[ontargetracing]

pacman, I am pretty sure there is a dyno chart somewhere on here with that pipe on a stock motor. I "think" it was something like 4hp. I know I saw it somewhere..

[mmsoup]

Well, if you pay someone to port the cylinder you lose the cheap aspect.

If you start with opening up the exhaust area WITHOUT raising the window or lowering the window, you will be OK but get mild results. Widening the window can cause issues with rings catching and you need to chamfer the edges anyway, so I wouldn't go there on a non bridged exhaust either.


The first and least destructive step would be to open up the exhaust AFTER the window and you can polish that area when finished. Try to match it exactly with your exhaust diameter and try to match the gasket diameter to that figure.

You can then go clean up the cases and smooth out the flow into the transfer ports on the cylinder and match those up so the gases don't hit any steps. You DO NOT want those areas to be polished. Do the same thing all the way through the intake system and if you get the CVT tuning right, you will maximize the performance of that setup with making any timing changes on the port windows.

Good luck this year, I am not by any means an expert on the MX side. We race exclusively in the woods, but Mom and Dad have as much or more invested in wrenching and setup than the kids do in the riding. It has been a great way to keep a family together and keep an eye on the kids.......